I know we Hate MacDonald, but...

[King Knut]

57 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

I wouldn't do that in a million years.

 

He's entirely worthless and paid way too much for that status.

 

He's not even close to remotely what this team needs.  He's a power play specialist who has been consistently a negative player for several years.  We have Ghost and Provorov for the power play units, so the only possible benefit Shatty provides is not need here.   He was hidden/covered by Pietrangelo for years.  We don't have a Pietrangelo here.  And he really isn't a very good puck mover.  He's a PP specialist.

 

Hard pass.   Hextall should be fired instantly if he did that.   This board would universally hate him before the season was over.  So would our goalies.

 

Hardly matters.  It’s moot and ain’t happening no matter what.  I don’t want him,  but his the him for free.  Might not be what this team needs, but he’s better than crap. 

[OccamsRazor]

9 minutes ago, King Knut said:

I don’t want him,  but his the him for free.

 

 

I knew you had been drinking........all the proof we needed.

[OccamsRazor]

6 hours ago, brelic said:

He'd either have to show he's really mastered the AHL game

 

So can we put this to bed now?

 

 

He got work to do.

[King Knut]

12 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

I knew you had been drinking........all the proof we needed.

 

Auto correct is a powerful drug...

[King Knut]

10 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

So can we put this to bed now?

 

 

He got work to do.

 

Oh boy he screwed up?  Like the way Karlsson got his pocket picked for a goal by Val filppula the other night?   Wouldn’t want him either?

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, King Knut said:

 

Oh boy he screwed up?  Like the way Karlsson got his pocket picked for a goal by Val filppula the other night?   Wouldn’t want him either?

 

Point being let him play well and dominate in the AHL before upping his competition level.

 

It's no hurry let's get it right he has the tools to be very good so it is important to handle as such.

 

He will be ready soon possibly later this year.

 

I want these bums out the Flyer line up as much as you do...but it needs to be here and stay type of development.

 

It's coming.

[RonJeremy]

Shatemkirk is exactly what we don’t need, he is shat. He is soft and can’t play defense, he is an offensive defenseman, we need a guy who can actually play defense.

[King Knut]

On 10/13/2018 at 9:57 AM, OccamsRazor said:

 

Point being let him play well and dominate in the AHL before upping his competition level.

 

It's no hurry let's get it right he has the tools to be very good so it is important to handle as such.

 

He will be ready soon possibly later this year.

 

I want these bums out the Flyer line up as much as you do...but it needs to be here and stay type of development.

 

It's coming.

 

Inappreciatw what you’re saying and if everything else were equal, i’d Agree. 

 

But I’m not saying to bring him up for good.  He’s waiver exempt and I believe Mac is not healthy.  

 

I believe eve bringing him up now for 2-4 weeks, green horn bumps and all will be better for the Flyers overall chances of winning games in the short term and on the medium term as it will get ‘ac healthy and back to his normal macness level of bad Mac,  not this truly atrocious clearly playing hurt level of bad Mac. 

 

2-4 weeks isn’t going to ruin Myers’ development long term and will give him a glimpse of what he really needs to work on to be an NHL,  not AHL defender. 

 

In in the mean time, green and tough as he’ll be, the team will have a better chance of winning short term, way better chance medium term and long term doesn’t change. 

 

2-4 weeks. That’s it. But it won’t happen and the team will have a worse full year for not letting Mac recover fully now. 

[vis]

On 10/12/2018 at 4:58 PM, King Knut said:

If Mac is hurt (and he doesn’t look healthy), they need to sit him regardless of the A on his jersey or his locker room presence or his tenure.

 

He can come back when he’s in shape.  But right now he just ain’t. 

Agree.

 

On 10/12/2018 at 4:58 PM, King Knut said:

 

The more seasoned D Men in LV aren’t as talented.  An unseasoned Myers can do more to help this team now than a seasoned Friedman or an overcooked Brennan. 

Agree, but what is better for Myers' development?  I think that's part of the analysis.

 

[King Knut]

12 minutes ago, vis said:

Agree.

 

Agree, but what is better for Myers' development?  I think that's part of the analysis.

 

 

2-4 weeks isn’t going to slow it. That’s my stance. Others may disagree, but if so, I’d like them to suggest why instead of just saying “let him develop in the AHL” because I’m not disagreeing with that. 

 

There is no way I think he’s worse for the team than Folin was against the Avs. 

 

If if anyone gets hurt, Myers will be the best option regardless of his development at the time.  

 

I believe if Mac were healthy I wouldn’t be saying this.  And clearly, I don’t LOVE Mac or anything... but even if whatever he has can heal while he’s playing it’ll likely take longer to do so and he’ll likely be playing much worse as a result and he’ll likely be in even more danger of injuring himself again while playing hurt.  It’s a bad idea and Myers’ “development t” is the only reason it’s happening and I just personally don’t think it’s a good enough Reason. 

 

Again, they won’t do it. But these losses are just as costly as losses on March and the defense is clearly the problem. 

 

A trade would be good, but you can’t give up more than 3rd round plus picks or the likes of Weise and Lehtera (who, shockingly are to playing that badly right now and who we need now anyway with JVR, Patrick and Weal all hurt). 

 

 

 

 

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, King Knut said:

 

Inappreciatw what you’re saying and if everything else were equal, i’d Agree. 

 

But I’m not saying to bring him up for good.  He’s waiver exempt and I believe Mac is not healthy.  

 

I believe eve bringing him up now for 2-4 weeks, green horn bumps and all will be better for the Flyers overall chances of winning games in the short term and on the medium term as it will get ‘ac healthy and back to his normal macness level of bad Mac,  not this truly atrocious clearly playing hurt level of bad Mac. 

 

2-4 weeks isn’t going to ruin Myers’ development long term and will give him a glimpse of what he really needs to work on to be an NHL,  not AHL defender. 

 

In in the mean time, green and tough as he’ll be, the team will have a better chance of winning short term, way better chance medium term and long term doesn’t change. 

 

2-4 weeks. That’s it. But it won’t happen and the team will have a worse full year for not letting Mac recover fully now. 

 

I got what you're saying but it comes down to more than that.

 

For one Friedman is further along in his development and is in his last year of waiver exemption. So he is the better more well rounded defensemen who should be called up.

 

Meyers has issues he needs to still work on.

 

Let him do that first.

 

In the meantime use the guys who is by AHL standards suppose to be more ready for a cup of coffee.

 

It's nothing personal towards Meyers but he is waiver exempt still next year too.

 

So I would like to get a look at the 23 year old Dman and see where he is at.

 

Don't forget and Morin come January so if not now with Friedman then when?

 

You have Hogberg an Bernhardt coming over to the AHL next year more than likely from the SHL

 

so that is two more D men you need to make room for so now would be a good time to check Friedman progress and go from there.

 

Just my 2 cents.

[vis]

13 minutes ago, King Knut said:

Others may disagree, but if so, I’d like them to suggest why instead of just saying “let him develop in the AHL” because I’m not disagreeing with that. 

What?  I don't understand.  Why is letting him develop in the AHL not a valid response?

[brelic]

Have a look at the team's progression under Hextall. Whether or not you agree with it, there is clearly a plan in place.

 

Four years of systematically undoing damage, finding short term stopgaps, and building through the draft. This idea that they overcook players or have too much deadweight doesn't match reality when you look at the roster change over time. 

 

 

 

HextallProgress.pdf

[vis]

 

32 minutes ago, brelic said:

Have a look at the team's progression under Hextall. Whether or not you agree with it, there is clearly a plan in place.

But has the team actually improved?  For all that turnover, they are still inconsistently mediocre and fragile.

 

When is all of this young talent going to come up and take over?  I think we are still two or three years away from being legit contenders, which in turn makes me wonder about Giroux, Voracek, Simmonds and JVR and whether they will still be contributing at that point.  Honestly, a lot of things still have to go right with the youth in order for this team to really be legitimate in a few years, absent some injection of bona fide NHLers.

[Podein25]

Totally came to this thread thinking it was a defense of McTurd based on the title. 

 

Instead, it's that we should hate him more!! 

 

I cannot count the ways in which I love Philly sports fans. Simply the best.

[brelic]

1 minute ago, vis said:

 

But has the team actually improved?  For all that turnover, they are still inconsistently mediocre and fragile.

 

2014-15 - 84 pts, missed playoffs

2015-16 - 96 pts, lost in 1st round

2016-17 - 88 pts, missed playoffs

2017-18 - 98 pts, lost in 1st round

 

I don't know, what do you think? 

 

1 - It could be a coaching issue.

2 - It could be our picks are just not as good as expected.

3 - It could be too early to really evaluate our picks.

4 - It could be that the whole rebuild/retool just takes longer than we like.

5 - It could be that a different approach is giving us the same results. There are no guarantees.

 

While I think the coaching is ok, I don't think Hak is the guy who will get the team to take the next step. Happy to be wrong. 

 

1 minute ago, vis said:

When is all of this young talent going to come up and take over?  I think we are still two or three years away from being legit contenders, which in turn makes me wonder about Giroux, Voracek, Simmonds and JVR and whether they will still be contributing at that point.  Honestly, a lot of things still have to go right with the youth in order for this team to really be legitimate in a few years, absent some injection of bona fide NHLers.

 

Agreed. There are probably a number of things happening.

 

Patrick is only 20 and has one season + 4 games. It really really really REALLY sucks that BOTH times we get the #2 overall, we get one of the weakest #2 players compared to adjacent years (Laine and Svechnikov for Patrick, Doughty and Jordan Staal for JVR, though Jordan/JVR are a wash). BUT, if the comparisons to Toews have any basis in future outcome for Patrick, that's a great thing. He'll probably be underwhelming compared to expectations, but I'm sure will be a solid #1/#2C and leader for this team.

 

Provorov is only 21 and for all his awesomeness, he does regularly make low hockey IQ plays. Probably just part of the learning curve. Or maybe not. Only time will tell. I think he needs another 4 years to hit his peak years (25 and up).

 

Ghost is what he is, and he's a top echelon offensive defenseman. Very few guys in the league are as dynamic as he is on the blueline.

 

TK seems primed for a long career as a top line winger. 

 

Lindblom is underwhelming, honestly. Again, still early in his NHL career, but he may need a few more years before we really know what he is. 

 

Hart is in the AHL. I think he needs two full seasons in LHV, and then one or two NHL seasons before he can be a consistent and impact NHL goalie. So that's 4 years down the road. 

 

Sanheim seems to be developing nicely. I'd think he needs another 2-3 NHL seasons before he starts hitting his peak years.

 

Most of what's in LHV now strikes me as middle to bottom six NHLers or bottom pairing defensemen (Myers excluded). 

 

Frost might be here next season, Farabee is probably 2 years away. O'Brien probably 2-3 years away. And keep in mind that is just for their rookie seasons, which are usually huge learning experiences and expectations are fairly tempered. 

 

All that to say, I'm not really sure what to think. It seems to come down to time, which fans don't like to hear. 

 

Or maybe fire all things and it magically gets better. 

 

[King Knut]

3 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

I got what you're saying but it comes down to more than that.

 

For one Friedman is further along in his development and is in his last year of waiver exemption. So he is the better more well rounded defensemen who should be called up.

 

Meyers has issues he needs to still work on.

 

Let him do that first.

 

In the meantime use the guys who is by AHL standards suppose to be more ready for a cup of coffee.

 

It's nothing personal towards Meyers but he is waiver exempt still next year too.

 

So I would like to get a look at the 23 year old Dman and see where he is at.

 

Don't forget and Morin come January so if not now with Friedman then when?

 

You have Hogberg an Bernhardt coming over to the AHL next year more than likely from the SHL

 

so that is two more D men you need to make room for so now would be a good time to check Friedman progress and go from there.

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

 

If Frieder’s

cloae enough than that’s great.  It was my impression from those that report on such things that’s Phil had passed him on the depth chart.  If that’s not the case then by all means callbup friedman for a few weeks.  

 

Morin is my pet peeve. I still think he’s a key piece of the defense’s future, but last year was a major blow.  I still think he should have made the team out of camp and that Hagg should have been the call up.  Sanheim was awesome by his second stint but the delay hurt Morin far more. 

 

The injuries would have have been addressed earlier at the NHL level and the season might have been salvaged.  

 

But fine.  If Friedman is ready Do It! 

[King Knut]

1 hour ago, brelic said:

 

2014-15 - 84 pts, missed playoffs

2015-16 - 96 pts, lost in 1st round

2016-17 - 88 pts, missed playoffs

2017-18 - 98 pts, lost in 1st round

 

I don't know, what do you think? 

 

1 - It could be a coaching issue.

2 - It could be our picks are just not as good as expected.

3 - It could be too early to really evaluate our picks.

4 - It could be that the whole rebuild/retool just takes longer than we like.

5 - It could be that a different approach is giving us the same results. There are no guarantees.

 

While I think the coaching is ok, I don't think Hak is the guy who will get the team to take the next step. Happy to be wrong. 

 

 

Agreed. There are probably a number of things happening.

 

Patrick is only 20 and has one season + 4 games. It really really really REALLY sucks that BOTH times we get the #2 overall, we get one of the weakest #2 players compared to adjacent years (Laine and Svechnikov for Patrick, Doughty and Jordan Staal for JVR, though Jordan/JVR are a wash). BUT, if the comparisons to Toews have any basis in future outcome for Patrick, that's a great thing. He'll probably be underwhelming compared to expectations, but I'm sure will be a solid #1/#2C and leader for this team.

 

Provorov is only 21 and for all his awesomeness, he does regularly make low hockey IQ plays. Probably just part of the learning curve. Or maybe not. Only time will tell. I think he needs another 4 years to hit his peak years (25 and up).

 

Ghost is what he is, and he's a top echelon offensive defenseman. Very few guys in the league are as dynamic as he is on the blueline.

 

TK seems primed for a long career as a top line winger. 

 

Lindblom is underwhelming, honestly. Again, still early in his NHL career, but he may need a few more years before we really know what he is. 

 

Hart is in the AHL. I think he needs two full seasons in LHV, and then one or two NHL seasons before he can be a consistent and impact NHL goalie. So that's 4 years down the road. 

 

Sanheim seems to be developing nicely. I'd think he needs another 2-3 NHL seasons before he starts hitting his peak years.

 

Most of what's in LHV now strikes me as middle to bottom six NHLers or bottom pairing defensemen (Myers excluded). 

 

Frost might be here next season, Farabee is probably 2 years away. O'Brien probably 2-3 years away. And keep in mind that is just for their rookie seasons, which are usually huge learning experiences and expectations are fairly tempered. 

 

All that to say, I'm not really sure what to think. It seems to come down to time, which fans don't like to hear. 

 

Or maybe fire all things and it magically gets better. 

 

 

It was a rebuild that was easy to mistake for competing and failing.  But that they were close and made the playoffs at all those years is kind of a miracle to be set at the feet (mostly) of G and Ghost and Jake. 

 

I have issues with Hakstol. 

 

Patrick’s gonna be fine if he can stay healthy... which I don’t think is an issue either at this point.  This latest is bad luck and I think he learned his lesson from the concussion last year.  

 

I disagree on Lindblom. I really do.  I like his game a lot. 

 

The AHL doesn’t have Allison or Frost or Farabee or Radcliffe or Stephen (do they?)

 

but yes, the rest of the Phantoms aside of Hart and Myers are bottom sixers which we will need too someday

 

They need to be ready to compete now.  And I’m really beginning to fear that it is far far more a coaching issue than a talent one.  

 

Gudas is is better than last year, so Hak sat him for Folin who cost us 3 goals. 

 

Aside from that, the Defense just seems to be playing a weak system that can’t compete with what they face in better teams.  

 

Objective Far at less talented teams have faired better so far this year.  

 

Its the system. Specifically anything happening in their own zone at any strength.  It’s a disaster back there.  

 

If hak cant hack it  back there he needs the help that can. And Lappy ain’t doing it. 

 

 

 

[FD19372]

On 10/13/2018 at 8:00 PM, RonJeremy said:

Shatemkirk is exactly what we don’t need, he is shat. He is soft and can’t play defense, he is an offensive defenseman, we need a guy who can actually play defense.

Shattenkirk would cause us more turnover problems in our own zone.. That is a recipe for DISASTER. We don't need him, nor should we want him. 

[FD19372]

We need a steady, boring veteran defenseman who just makes calm, decent plays back there on D. Gudas and MacDonald aren't it.

[brelic]

3 hours ago, King Knut said:

 

It was a rebuild that was easy to mistake for competing and failing.  But that they were close and made the playoffs at all those years is kind of a miracle to be set at the feet (mostly) of G and Ghost and Jake. 

 

It was a rebuild that was (un)fortunate enough to remain competitive because of, like you say, a very talented few players. Theyre too good to be a true basement team. 

 

3 hours ago, King Knut said:

 

I have issues with Hakstol. 

 

I do too. Like I said, I don’t think he’s THE guy. He’s the rebound coach

 

3 hours ago, King Knut said:

 

Patrick’s gonna be fine if he can stay healthy... which I don’t think is an issue either at this point.  This latest is bad luck and I think he learned his lesson from the concussion last year.  

 

I think he will too. He’s still only 20, and just because he was #2 overall, it automatically comes with assumptions and expectations. Patrick is Patrick, and no one else, and he has his own development path. He’s probably too smart and too talented to be a bust or mediocre.

 

3 hours ago, King Knut said:

 

I disagree on Lindblom. I really do.  I like his game a lot. 

 

I do too, I really do. Like him as a player, I’m just not sold on his offensive upside matching his days in The SHL. But I really like him, and however he turns out, i think he belongs on this team. 

 

3 hours ago, King Knut said:

 

The AHL doesn’t have Allison or Frost or Farabee or Radcliffe or Stephen (do they?)

 

Exactly. That’s all I meant by my comment - it’s the current Phantoms that I see as middle to bottom six NHLers. Those other guys you mention have higher ceilings, I think. 

 

Oh, and who’s Stephen? Lol, a typo I’m sure

 

3 hours ago, King Knut said:

 

but yes, the rest of the Phantoms aside of Hart and Myers are bottom sixers which we will need too someday

 

They need to be ready to compete now.  And I’m really beginning to fear that it is far far more a coaching issue than a talent one.  

 

Gudas is is better than last year, so Hak sat him for Folin who cost us 3 goals. 

 

Aside from that, the Defense just seems to be playing a weak system that can’t compete with what they face in better teams.  

 

Objective Far at less talented teams have faired better so far this year.  

 

Its the system. Specifically anything happening in their own zone at any strength.  It’s a disaster back there.  

 

If hak cant hack it  back there he needs the help that can. And Lappy ain’t doing it. 

 

 

 

 

Is it the system? I’m asking honestly, because I don’t know at a deep level how modern hockey systems work. 

 

Hak had had consistent success at the NCAA level. Obviously, his system worked over many years, many roster turnovers. So he was doing something right. 

 

Now, obviously the NHL is several levels higher. There are probably more fully developed and refined systems and nuances, but at the end of the day, the number of truly distinct systems is surely limited to, what, a handful? Maybe a dozen? 

 

So if it’s system, why? Poor coaching? Poor personnel? Wrong personnel? 

 

 

[vis]

6 hours ago, brelic said:

I don't know, what do you think? 

Not really seeing a lot of improvement.  The team is still wildly inconsistent.  It's PK remains abysmal and defensive mistakes seemingly always end up in the net.  I haven't really noticed an increase in their compete level.  To me, they are still mediocre, despite the roster turnover.

 

Quote

1 - It could be a coaching issue.

I've praised and complained about Hakstol.  Sometimes I am surprised what he's been able to do with the roster he's been given and sometimes I wonder if he has a clue.  I'll say this: where is the tough-to-play-against mentality I thought he would bring?

 

Quote

2 - It could be our picks are just not as good as expected.

Jury is out on this.  My complaint is that little has been done to improve the roster via trades or signings.  Yes ,Hextall got JVR.  I'm not a fan of his, but signing him checks the "improve goal scoring" box.  

 

Quote

3 - It could be too early to really evaluate our picks.

It is.

 

Quote

4 - It could be that the whole rebuild/retool just takes longer than we like.

Some other teams have done pretty well in a shorter period.

 

Quote

5 - It could be that a different approach is giving us the same results. There are no guarantees.

Maybe.

 

Quote

While I think the coaching is ok, I don't think Hak is the guy who will get the team to take the next step. Happy to be wrong. 

Me neither.

 

Quote

All that to say, I'm not really sure what to think. It seems to come down to time, which fans don't like to hear. 

I said earlier that I think they are 2 to 3 years away.  Thinking about it now, it's probably close to 3-4 years.  That will be 7-8 years of "retooling."  That's a bit excessive, no?  

[brelic]

10 hours ago, vis said:

Not really seeing a lot of improvement.  The team is still wildly inconsistent.  It's PK remains abysmal and defensive mistakes seemingly always end up in the net.  I haven't really noticed an increase in their compete level.  To me, they are still mediocre, despite the roster turnover.

 

I would agree with that, and their record agrees too.

 

So let me ask you this - you saw the PDF I posted yesterday. Same mediocre results, very different roster. Is it possible that the mediocre results back then were because of fully (or mostly) developed NHL talent that was just mediocre vs. now where we have under-developed (developing) talent that is playing mediocre but has a higher ceiling?

 

Look at the blue lines - 

 

2014-15 (Hex and Hak's first year)

MacDonald

Streit

Del Zotto

Schultz

Schenn

Grossmann

Coburn

Colaicovo

Manning

Alt

Lauridsen

Ghost (he played 2 games)

 

2018-19

MacDonald (the only remaining regular from 4 years ago)

Ghost

Provorov

Gudas

Sanheim

Hagg

Folin

 

In 2014-15, I see a whole lot of meh with a side of gross and no youth except for fill-ins and Ghost getting his first taste. That was the first time that I can remember having a defenseman in the AHL that was extremely promising and exciting.

 

In 2018-19, half our defense is 23 and under, which is way more than other NHL teams. Ghost at 25 and Provorov at 21 are the team's top pair.

 

So 4 of our top 6 defensemen are Flyers picks, and part of the youth movement everyone has been waiting for. 

 

Maybe the lackluster defensive play is similar to 4 years ago, but due to inexperience this time around instead of just bad players. 

 

I don't know, maybe I'm reaching, but trying to find a positive spin on this. 

 

10 hours ago, vis said:

 

I've praised and complained about Hakstol.  Sometimes I am surprised what he's been able to do with the roster he's been given and sometimes I wonder if he has a clue.  I'll say this: where is the tough-to-play-against mentality I thought he would bring?

 

I have no clue. There have been stretches where everyone on this team is clicking, and they look unstoppable. Not sure that makes them 'tough to play against' but they are hard to beat. 

 

What are you thinking when you say 'tough to play against'? What does that look like to you?

 

10 hours ago, vis said:

 

Jury is out on this.  My complaint is that little has been done to improve the roster via trades or signings.  Yes ,Hextall got JVR.  I'm not a fan of his, but signing him checks the "improve goal scoring" box.  

 

It is.

 

Some other teams have done pretty well in a shorter period.

 

Maybe.

 

Me neither.

 

I said earlier that I think they are 2 to 3 years away.  Thinking about it now, it's probably close to 3-4 years.  That will be 7-8 years of "retooling."  That's a bit excessive, no?  

 

Yes, it's excessive from a fan standpoint. Given the way Hextall is doing it - through the draft - it's not excessive at all. Players don't come into their primes until 23-26 range, later for goalies. So that lines up with his drafting. Plus you have to account for players who just don't pan out or take longer than expected. 

 

The Leafs have retooled very quickly. But they got Austin Matthews, we got Patrick. They're not in the same league. Matthews instantly became the team leader and impact player on the ice, while Patrick is slowly learning the game behind Couturier, and the other veterans we have. Then they added Tavares and they look like an offensive juggernaut now. They've got holes on defense and in goal, but whatever - they're competitive. 

 

They also went for a hard tank, though. The Flyers never did, and Hextall said he abhors that. 

 

But also, we don't have any pure goal scorers in the Matthews or Laine mold. We have some garbage goal collectors (JVR, Simmer). And I don't know what Ratcliffe and Allison will bring.

 

The rest of our guys are smart, two-way, playmakers. No snipers. So, I think that's a weakness in Hextall's drafting so far. I don't want power forwards or garbage goal collectors. I want a pure goal scorer - someone who will drive the net on instinct to balance out all this east-west stuff we have with most of our team.

[murraycraven]

17 hours ago, vis said:

 

But has the team actually improved?  For all that turnover, they are still inconsistently mediocre and fragile.

 

When is all of this young talent going to come up and take over?  I think we are still two or three years away from being legit contenders, which in turn makes me wonder about Giroux, Voracek, Simmonds and JVR and whether they will still be contributing at that point.  Honestly, a lot of things still have to go right with the youth in order for this team to really be legitimate in a few years, absent some injection of bona fide NHLers.

 

 

from my my perspective I could not agree more.   

 

we are constantly looking to the future but a lot of key areas need to break for the plan to achieve the ultimate goal.   what if hart is not what we think he is... what if frost is not what we think he is, etc...   a large part of this plan is built around the current "what if" scenario(s) so none of us know how this is going to pan out.   

 

I do like that we are building from within but there is a long way to go imo.  And I agree that we are stil 3-4 years away from being an actual contender *if* things pan out like we hope.   

 

then there is Hak - if there is not any marked 

[vis]

1 hour ago, brelic said:

So let me ask you this - you saw the PDF I posted yesterday. Same mediocre results, very different roster. Is it possible that the mediocre results back then were because of fully (or mostly) developed NHL talent that was just mediocre vs. now where we have under-developed (developing) talent that is playing mediocre but has a higher ceiling?

But look at what has stayed the same: the "core,"  coaching and GM.  That's where the issues are, imo.  I don't think it's necessarily the swapping of inept vets for unseasoned rookies.  Generally, I do think the roster has improved since 14/15.  But yet the results kind of look the same (on the ice, anyway).  I'll admit: it's very early and this team could go on a very good run.  I think a lot of pundits look at the top 6 and see them as a one of the top three teams in the Metro.

 

1 hour ago, brelic said:

I have no clue. There have been stretches where everyone on this team is clicking, and they look unstoppable. Not sure that makes them 'tough to play against' but they are hard to beat. 

 

What are you thinking when you say 'tough to play against'? What does that look like to you?

To me, being tough to play against means skating hard every shift, playing with pressure, backchecking, being physical when necessary, not wilting in the face of adversity and putting teams away (or not letting them back in the game) when you have the lead.  Oh, and playing without mistakes.

 

1 hour ago, brelic said:

Yes, it's excessive from a fan standpoint. Given the way Hextall is doing it - through the draft - it's not excessive at all. Players don't come into their primes until 23-26 range, later for goalies. So that lines up with his drafting. Plus you have to account for players who just don't pan out or take longer than expected. 

 

The Leafs have retooled very quickly.

The Leafs are one team, but I was thinking more about the Devils.  That team, imo, was further away than the Flyers when they started their rebuild and they have turned things around quickly.  The built a good team with shrewd trades and signings and, yes, they got Hischier (and a few other prospects are panning out). 

 

1 hour ago, brelic said:

The rest of our guys are smart, two-way, playmakers. No snipers. So, I think that's a weakness in Hextall's drafting so far. I don't want power forwards or garbage goal collectors. I want a pure goal scorer - someone who will drive the net on instinct to balance out all this east-west stuff we have with most of our team.

That's clearly the Flyers' focus: smart, two-way players.  But you still need top-end talent to win games.