A Journalist's Take on the State of the Flyers

[Howie58]

Here is Dave Isaac's take on the Flyers after last night's debacle in Toronto. I think he conveys what most of us feel:

 

https://www.courierpostonline.com/story/sports/nhl/flyers/2018/11/25/dave-isaac-when-ron-hextall-finally-make-move-philadelphia-flyers/2108100002/

 

Sam Carchidi wrote a similar piece, noting loss of interest among the fan base.  Perhaps that's a good thing if it prods the brass into action.  By my reckoning, we've had 3-4 losses by four+ goals.  That should be a big-time alarm for Hexy and Comcast.  

 

I am adding another post that expresses frustration on other dimensions:

 

https://www.broadstreethockey.com/2018/11/25/18111156/flyers-fan-frustration-fire-hakstol

 

Our "rebuild" is taking too long....and isn't rebuilding. 

 

[pilldoc]

Greetings Howie!

 

both articles are spot on..... thanks for sharing....

 

it it has been a long time since I have been this apethetic towards this team or season...

 

 

[OccamsRazor]

The most interesting part...

 

There’s a strong case that Hextall is more responsible for the Flyers’ struggles than bench boss Dave Hakstol.

 

Exhibit A: The decline in the team’s penalty kill has gone on for three seasons with no tangible changes made. 

 

Exhibit B: Now in his fifth season at the helm, Hextall has made only one trade that was predominantly about acquiring a player and not about adding future assets or shedding salary cap space. It came last season when the team had to acquire a goalie and got Petr Mrazek from Detroit. That obviously didn’t work out long-term and the Flyers still have no solution there.

 

That brings us to Exhibit C, which the former goalie probably regrets most. When Anthony Stolarz was tapped for mop-up duty Saturday, he was the fifth goalie to play for the team already this season, something that hadn’t happened since the 2009-10 season. The Flyers have never had six play at least a game in one season in franchise history. Entering the season with Brian Elliott and Michal Neuvirth, both coming off surgeries in the offseason, was predictably a high-risk situation and both were injured this season in short order.  

 

“There’s always risk,” Hextall said a little more than a week ago. “Obviously Neuvy’s history says he’s a high risk. Brian’s doesn’t. Obviously he’s not a young guy but he had an injury last year (core muscle surgery in February) and got it fixed so those are hard things to predict.

 

You’ve also got a waiver issue (with Cal Pickard needing to clear waivers to be sent to the minors) and we got Alex (Lyon) kind of knocking on the door.”

 

The Flyers’ issues are deeper than their goaltending, which has a shared save percentage of an NHL-worst .880.

[Howie58]

Comcast may weigh in.  

 

They have a $740 million investment that nets $26 million a year, but if you note, its value has grown slower than other franchises.:

 

https://www.forbes.com/nhl-valuations/list/#tab:overall

 

Playoff hockey is juicy TV revenue.  This gang may not make it.  Maybe their patience is wearing thin. 

 

[radoran]

11 hours ago, pilldoc said:

it it has been a long time since I have been this apethetic towards this team or season...

 

I'm finding myself more interested in other games I happen across. Part of it is I haven't bothered getting NBCSN-Philadelphia. I've been to one game (the Florida debacle) and have watched the few national games.

 

It hasn't helped.

 

It's the same middling team, doing the same middling things, winding up with a middling record, going nowhere.

 

They're looking up in the standings at teams like the Islanders (who lost their "franchise player") and the Hurricanes(!?!?) and the Rangers(!?!?!?). They're currently a point better than Ottawa, which is barely an NHL franchise at this point - and face the Sens tomorrow.

Give me a reason to care, and I'll sing along forever...

[OccamsRazor]

8 minutes ago, radoran said:

They're looking up in the standings at teams like the Islanders (who lost their "franchise player") and the Hurricanes(!?!?) and the Rangers(!?!?!?). They're currently a point better than Ottawa, which is barely an NHL franchise at this point - and face the Sens tomorrow.

 

[brelic]

The original article does make some good points that a lot of what plagues the team this year can be laid directly at the feet of Ron Hextall.

 

There were three glaring needs coming in to this season - better goaltending, better penalty killing, and a competent 3rd center.

 

Hextall addressed none of those things. 

 

Found this interesting post on Reddit this morning.. 

 

A quick glance at those  numbers tells me the team is effective at 5v5 shot and scoring chance suppression. We also know that they are good at 5v5 scoring.

 

But the goaltending is bottom third or worse at ES.

 

Of course, it's not *only* goaltending. A number of Toronto's goals the other night came on careless plays and turnovers. Sanheim (2), Ghost, and Folin were directly responsible for 4 major gaffes that led directly to goals. 

 

So if you could make only one move right now, which would it be? Coach or goaltender?

 

If it's coach - who do you hire?

 

If it's goaltender - who do you target and for what assets?

 

[brelic]

Also found an interesting roster comparison from when Ron took over to now.

 

[OccamsRazor]

9 minutes ago, brelic said:

Coach or goaltender?

 

I would go goaltender. Depending on who it is coming back.

 

Because if it doesn't help you could continue to tank (while getting a good draft hopefully name Hughes) purge some some contracts and then in the offseason change the coaching staff.

 

I agree with @ruxpin and what he said yesterday...while now absolving Hak of it all he hasn't had great goaltending to lean on since he has been in Philly.

 

So give him that to finish my evaluation of him to leave no more doubts....then cut bait if it don't help.

 

I mean think about Hextall for minute he has removed some bad contracts and stock draft picks and prospects but what major move/attempt has he made to actually bring someone in and try and make them better???

 

Mrazek debacle is all i can recall.

 

So Ron bro how about step and do your job in that category...makes no sense to go out and make a move with JVR and then doing nothing else really to try and save this season....besides lip service!

[mojo1917]

@OccamsRazor @ruxpin

RE: goaltending being Hakstol's Achilles heel. 

I don't agree with the take that Hakstol hasn't had good goaltending while he's been here.

 

He had Mason who was capable of playing well at the beginning of the H & H era, and he ran that guy right into the ground. So much so that Mason thought it would be best to burn the bridge than continue to play for him.

Hakstol rode Neuwirth into the playoffs vs Washington, again simply crushed the guy with playing time down the stretch.

 

I would like to suggest that Hakstol wouldn't know how to handle a competent goaltender. I think Hakstol would have burnt Martin Brodeur out. 

 

It was a good attempt to pull a coach from a non traditional source and see what he could do. We're 5 years in and he's not the savant player whisperer and systems developer everyone was hoping he'd be, he's okay. He's not a top tier guy, this team is a mess and I put that squarely at Hakstol's feet. Time to end the experiment and bring in proven success....it's available. 

 

@brelic

I would change the Coach, which would include the entire staff. Sorry Jimmy"the Groin" pack your ****.

 

 

 

 

[radoran]

25 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

while now absolving Hak of it all he hasn't had great goaltending to lean on since he has been in Philly.

 

To be fair, Hak hasn't really been terribly adept at handling the goalies he's had, either...

 

34 minutes ago, brelic said:

There were three glaring needs coming in to this season - better goaltending, better penalty killing, and a competent 3rd center.

 

Hextall addressed none of those things. 

 

To go along with the post about the rosters, at this point isn't some of the "young talent" supposed to be making the transition to filling some of these gaps?

 

Vorobyev was slated to be the third line center and lasted all of seven games. For that matter, shouldn't Laughton be about ready to take on something like this? The third line center is apparently going to have Simmonds and JVR on the wings - that should be good enough for someone...

 

Then you have the likes of Lehterrible and Waste eating up $10M in cap space for... well, not very much.

 

I do look at the roster and think "they should be better than this" - but they're clearly not. In Y4 of Hakstol, why do they still look like they're a monkey trying to hump a football out there so much?

[OccamsRazor]

6 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

 

He had Mason who was capable of playing well

 

Sure.

 

Even Neuvy, Elliott, Pickard and Lyon were "capable".

 

But just because you are capable doesn't make you reliable when you lack one thing. Consistency. That is what the Carey Prices and Rine and Quicks of the other teams were. Consistently good.

 

This is a what have you done for me lately league. And the Flyers goaltending has been as inconsistent as i have ever witnessed.

 

12 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

Hakstol rode Neuwirth into the playoffs vs Washington, again simply crushed the guy with playing time down the stretch.

 

Wrong.

 

Sure Neuvy played the2nd half of the back to backs to end the season but Hak rode Mason.

 

Neuvy played the last game of the season April 10th. But the previous game before that was March 16. That my friend is far from riding him into the playoffs.

 

Mason played 12 straight games between Neuvy's starts while they were fighting for the playoffs.

 

Then they make the playoffs Mason comes up small and Neuvy comes in and almost single handedly got them to the next round if they could score.

 

So i hope you just got the names mixed up.

 

However i agree that Hak doesn't know still how to handle an NHL goaltender. Yet if he got better more consistent goaltending maybe this wouldn't be an issues when have the Flyers ever had that???

 

19 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

I think Hakstol would have burnt Martin Brodeur out.

 

Two thing doesn't make this a good argument was Marty was a workhorse who WAS consistently good.

 

If he had Mary he would be a Jack Adams candidate and we wouldn't be talking about this.

 

So it's a long way of saying i am fine we disagree.

[OccamsRazor]

20 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

To be fair, Hak hasn't really been terribly adept at handling the goalies he's had, either...

 

Sure not argument. In college the goalie played a lot so Hak has not adjusted.

 

Plus he hasn't had a goalie who could play a lot and be good too. 

 

Mason played 60 games twice in his career both he won 33 wins those seasons the only times he had won more than 26.

 

And Elliott had played more than 50 games once in his career. 2009-10.

 

So Hak has had some broken own mules he rode into the ground?? I guess.

 

Mediocre goalies will yield mediocre results.

[pilldoc]

33 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

To go along with the post about the rosters, at this point isn't some of the "young talent" supposed to be making the transition to filling some of these gaps?

 

Vorobyev was slated to be the third line center and lasted all of seven games. For that matter, shouldn't Laughton be about ready to take on something like this? The third line center is apparently going to have Simmonds and JVR on the wings - that should be good enough for someone...

 

Then you have the likes of Lehterrible and Waste eating up $10M in cap space for... well, not very much.

 

I do look at the roster and think "they should be better than this" - but they're clearly not. In Y4 of Hakstol, why do they still look like they're a monkey trying to hump a football out there so much?

 

@radoran even though I quoted you, this is really for everyone out there.

 

Then I will throw this out there and see what sticks ..... are we the fans and/or management overvaluing the young players already on this team or in this organization?  Just curious some of your thoughts?  I believe this very thought has been mentioned somewhere else on here.

[radoran]

Just now, pilldoc said:

are we the fans and/or management overvaluing the young players already on this team or in this organization?  Just curious some of your thoughts?  I believe this very thought has been mentioned somewhere else on here. 

 

Yes.

 

Every Flyer prospect is going to be great until they aren't and then they were going to be terrible all along.

 

I still believe that the team is more talented than it has been playing.

[OccamsRazor]

7 minutes ago, pilldoc said:

are we the fans and/or management overvaluing the young players already on this team or in this organization?

 

I think that is to hard to say right now.

 

They are all mostly still young.

 

 

[mojo1917]

33 minutes ago, pilldoc said:

. are we the fans and/or management overvaluing the young players already on this team or in this organization?  Just curious some of your thoughts? 

I don't think so, I can see with some of these young guys high hockey IQ and good motors.

I know that the prospects aren't super stars maybe one or two will be but I do think they can grow into very good NHL players.

They have to be allowed to do that. Bakinnaday it took like 2 or 3 years in the NHL before the player hit their stride, now a days , Patrick isn't 30-55 he's a bust !...that's stupid. 

The players have to learn to be NHL players the only place they can learn that is...

super stars come in and light it up right away,  because our young guys don't do that doesn't mean they won't be very good players.

So No I don't think I overvalue our prospects, excepting Carter Hart that guy will walk on water.