What is Wrong with Provorov?

[brelic]

11 hours ago, ruxpin said:

No thank you. He's signed through 40 and already slow. 

 

Plus, if/when Chicago is able to make that contract, they really need to get something out of it other than an expiring contract. 

 

Sorry, it was a good effort, but I personally wouldn't be interested.

 

Well I’m sure there are other options out there. 

 

What if if they took MacDud too? Lol

 

In any case, we’re going to have a logjam on defense, and only have room for one true vet. Any other suggestions?

 

Or maybe we the ship has sailed on the “mentor” thing. With Ghost and Gudas, we have our experienced vets. 

 

Buy out AMac at the end of the year, and roll with Ghost, Gudas, Provorov, Sanheim, Hagg, Morin and Myers. 

 

Hagg and Morin may end up being #6/7 guys. 

[OccamsRazor]

14 minutes ago, brelic said:

 

Well I’m sure there are other options out there. 

 

What if if they took MacDud too? Lol

 

In any case, we’re going to have a logjam on defense, and only have room for one true vet. Any other suggestions?

 

Or maybe we the ship has sailed on the “mentor” thing. With Ghost and Gudas, we have our experienced vets. 

 

Buy out AMac at the end of the year, and roll with Ghost, Gudas, Provorov, Sanheim, Hagg, Morin and Myers. 

 

Hagg and Morin may end up being #6/7 guys. 

 

I really hope Sam Morin by February can find a spot on their blueline.

 

They can use his size and grit for sure.

 

I know it's a reach right at the moment but I would love for him to see if he could help Ivan out.

 

Provorov/Morin

Ghost/Hagg

Sanheim/Gudas

 

That would give them a skilled guy with a mobile stay at home type.

 

However Sam has to get healthy first and back in game shape.

 

Baby steps.

[flyercanuck]

4 hours ago, icehole said:

I'm down on him now because I've seen more negative than positive, last year included.  I'm not saying he cant or won't get better, but all if have to work with is what I've seen.

 

Ghost is also having a bad year.  Ghost has more tangible talent to me than Provorov does though.  That's why I actually think Ghost could have a better career than provorov (The entire fanbase: "THIS GUY IS A MORON!"). 

 

Provorov's talents I've seen so far

1. He is good at containing a rush to the outside.

2. He is good at skating the puck out of his zone.

 

Ghost talents I've seen so far

1.  Illusive with the puck through 2 zones

2.  Good shot

3.  Good at keeping the puck in the zone

4.  Able to get open on PP.

 

I'm sure I'm forgetting things, and this isn't about who is better.  My point is those two things I've listed are the only 2 things I've seen from provorov so far.  I've seen so much discussion on how he does so many things so well, but I haven't seen it.

 

Do you realize that when Ghost was Provorovs age, he had TWO NHL games under his belt. When Ghost was 20, he put up 34 points in college. Provorov put up 41 points in the best league in the world as a 20 year old...including the most goals by a defenceman  without even being on the top pp. (you think maybe HIS shot is ok?) While Ghost gets sheltered and the preferred O-zone starts Provorov gets thrown out against the best players there is. 

 

 If by better career you mean more points I won't argue. If the Flyers need a goal, sure, I'd likely rather have Ghost out there. There's more to the game than that though. And when it comes to defending Provorov is better. And he's certainly not chopped liver offensively, which he has proven by leading the league, including Ghost with all the top power play time, in goals. The guy is having a tough year...it happens.

[OccamsRazor]

An even better question what is wrong with Nolan Patrick?

 

6 goals today zero points for him and now pointless in 10 games.

 

Last I looked he was 4 for 11 on faceoffs??

 

Is he hurt and not saying anything?

 

Concerned about the kid.

[flyercanuck]

7 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

An even better question what is wrong with Nolan Patrick?

 

6 goals today zero points for him and now pointless in 10 games.

 

Last I looked he was 4 for 11 on faceoffs??

 

Is he hurt and not saying anything?

 

Concerned about the kid.

 

Ya...me too. He looked so good the last half of last season, I was hoping for a breakout. 

[OccamsRazor]

2 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 

Ya...me too. He looked so good the last half of last season, I was hoping for a breakout. 

 

Well my thought is with JVR Giroux and TK looking so good you could drop Coots to the 2nd line and then Patrick to the 3rd to let him figure some stuff out.

 

Either he is pressing or dealing with an injury.

 

But Hak needs to help him get back to play good confident hockey.

 

That may help.

 

Nothing wrong with starting on the 3rd and working his way out of it.

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

13 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

But Hak needs to help him get back to play good confident hockey.

 

You've answered your own question right there. Help and confidence are not in the Hak manual of coaching......

[OccamsRazor]

2 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

 

You've answered your own question right there. Help and confidence are not in the Hak manual of coaching......

 

Well they have the Jets tomorrow and they are rested and coming off a loss.

 

Maybe wait to juggle your lines.

 

One thing I would do with the size the Jets have is sit Weal and let Varone play.

 

Weal has been very very disappointing.

[OccamsRazor]

@icehole

 

A goal for Ivan today and +5 finish.

 

See just have some faith. Kid is by the best defenseman I have ever seen the Flyers draft and I don't think has even scratched his potential.

 

Just my humble opinion.

[mojo1917]

4 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

@icehole

 

A goal for Ivan today and +5 finish.

 

See just have some faith. Kid is by the best defenseman I have ever seen the Flyers draft and I don't think has even scratched his potential.

 

Just my humble opinion.

Apply this post to Patrick too. 

He'll be fine. He's 20...

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, mojo1917 said:

Apply this post to Patrick too. 

He'll be fine. He's 20...

 

I wish I could but he has not shown me the "best" at anything like Provorov so it's like apples to oranges my friend.

 

Ivan had two good if not great years.

 

Patrick?

 

Not even close.

[flyercanuck]

16 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

I wish I could but he has not shown me the "best" at anything like Provorov so it's like apples to oranges my friend.

 

Ivan had two good if not great years.

 

Patrick?

 

Not even close.

 

Patrick started last season coming off injury. It was also his draft year. Provorov was still in junior his draft year. Patrick looked pretty damn good down the stretch last year. I'd say he deserves just as much slack as Provorov...even if he hasn't proven as much. 

[brelic]

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

I wish I could but he has not shown me the "best" at anything like Provorov so it's like apples to oranges my friend.

 

Ivan had two good if not great years.

 

Patrick?

 

Not even close.

 

Patrick is playing very small. There’s no authority in his game. He’s been peeling off hits, getting rid of pucks immediately, avoiding going north-south. 

 

Again, he’s young and figuring things out. I’m disappointed that, as a #2 overall pick, he hasn’t come in and established himself like some other rookies, but what can you do?

 

He’ll develop at his own pace. 

 

In the meantime, though, maybe Giroux having a great game and chemistry with JVR and TK while playing centre allows Hak to roll with G, Coots, and Patrick down the middle for a while.

[vis]

On 12/8/2018 at 3:32 PM, OccamsRazor said:

Concerned about the kid.

Bigly.

 

And it really hurts watching Hischier, Heiskanen and Petterson excel.  

[King Knut]

On 12/7/2018 at 12:46 PM, darthbal said:

He probably needs a little break; like it was said, "he is inside his own head".

 

I would like to think that reducing his playing time a few minutes, not just taking him off the 2nd PP, and maybe some one on one time with Wilson should help.

 

But then the question becomes: who can play against other teams' big line if it ain't Provy?

 

 

If Provy isn't effective (and he hasn't been) they should split it up.  Ghost and Sanheim have been far and away the most effective pairing.  Hak doesn't increase their numbers or their assignments because he thinks their effectiveness is only due to playing weaker talent.

 

If Provy and Ghost ain't cutting it, let's at least find out if he's right.  

[King Knut]

On 12/8/2018 at 5:55 PM, OccamsRazor said:

 

I wish I could but he has not shown me the "best" at anything like Provorov so it's like apples to oranges my friend.

 

Ivan had two good if not great years.

 

Patrick?

 

Not even close.

 

Again, I go back to utilization.  Frankly put, the people we're disappointed that Patrick isn't performing as well as aren't asked to do the same things and play the same boring ass "don't use your skills!" game.   Patrick is confused.  He doesn't know how to do what he's being told to do and turn that into what he knows how to do.

 

He ain't Toews.  If we wanted him to score a lot, we shouldn't have had Hak be his coach.  

 

Nolan Patrick is incredibly skilled and comfortable with the puck on his stick.  He should have come into the NHL with the idea that his team mates were going to get the puck on his stick as often as possible.  

 

He doesn't have the natural defensive and physical inclination like Couturier.  He's a slick puck handler with vision and they're kinda treating him like he's Brayden Schenn 2.0 right now... and somehow we're surprised others are putting up better numbers?