** Wild 2023 Off Season and Summer **

[IllaZilla]

5 hours ago, Tomdog said:

I’ve seen enough of Addison to see that he is definitely not good enough to be as small as he is and be the second small defenseman on a team. 
The Wild can only afford to have one small defenseman and right now and for the foreseeable future that’s Spurgeon. 
Trade him and cut your losses. 

Which would be unfortunate because then it means the Wild basically traded Jason Zucker for Pittsburgh's 2021 first round pick, which they ended up using on Carson Lambos.

[Tomdog]

Yes it is unfortunate. If Addison could learn to defend it would make Spurgeon expendable, assumeing he would waive his NMC.

But there is just no room for 2 undersized defenseman.

[TropicalFruitGirl26]

3 hours ago, Tomdog said:

Yes it is unfortunate. If Addison could learn to defend it would make Spurgeon expendable, assumeing he would waive his NMC.

But there is just no room for 2 undersized defenseman.

 

Addison, kinda, sorta, reminds me a bit of a young Dan Boyle.
Both about the same size height-wise (5'10 or so), both undersized at their position (Addison something like 175...Boyle was something like 180 when he started), and both with very good offensive instincts that were undermined by poor NHL level defensive capabilities.

Dan Boyle was bounced around early, TB took him on, where he started to really develop, and then he settled into San Jose where, even though he NEVER WAS a great defenseman, he learned to do enough so that his real talents, offense, and running a PP, shone through more.

Can Addison be that?
It took Boyle quite a bit of time to get to where he got. Lots of hard work and good coaching I am sure went into it.
But can the Wild afford to wait around for Addison to be that?
Do the Wild have the coaching in place to get the most out of Addison?

I've gotten the impression from a few different places that Addison could be a trade chip, and it could mean he ends up being at his best elsewhere.
If the Wild really don't fully believe in him, and if they look real hard at themselves and  come to the conclusion that they either don't have the management personnel to help elevate Addison, or even the patience to do it, then best thing they can do is play him (unless they get an interested party right away), try to raise his value and potential, then trade him off when it is at its highest.

It may turn out Addison becomes Dan Boyle-like elsewhere, and some people might lament the fact that he was traded.
But, then again, he might NOT ever become anything more than what he is staying where he is!

If Minnesota can get picks or another player of value for him, from a team looking for an offense first young defenseman, I say they should do it.

[ClusterChuck]

On 8/7/2023 at 6:54 AM, CreaseAndAssist said:

(sigh)  Meh, Dumba going to Arizona isn't a big deal.  They better hope they can give him a very defensively responsible partner for all the watching he likes to do in and around the crease.  

 

Nice guy, but I am not sentimental about his departure.  It was time and the cap crunch probably helped spare the team from making a contract mistake although they will have a chance to make it again next year when he's a UFA again.  

That's a bit what K-Fan was saying. In 2 years with more money we could resign him. WHY ?? He'd be 2 years older and still the same old, He is what he is. 

I'm looking forward to the next 2 seasons of our development and scouting to find the upcoming youthful talent. If you can't get a good plan going with what's out there during that time for when we have the money to spend then we need new people in those depts. This is our chance to really go for needs of the team for the long run.
The last thing we need in 2 years is to go throw $$ at Over the hill-Past prime big names. We don't have to have history repeat itself.

[CreaseAndAssist]

16 hours ago, ClusterChuck said:

That's a bit what K-Fan was saying. In 2 years with more money we could resign him. WHY ?? He'd be 2 years older and still the same old, He is what he is. 

I'm looking forward to the next 2 seasons of our development and scouting to find the upcoming youthful talent. If you can't get a good plan going with what's out there during that time for when we have the money to spend then we need new people in those depts. This is our chance to really go for needs of the team for the long run.
The last thing we need in 2 years is to go throw $$ at Over the hill-Past prime big names. We don't have to have history repeat itself.

 

I agree.  It would be a mistake to add Dumba again after this season even if he was making half of what he was making last year (so $3 million instead of $6 million) simply because you want the young ones (cheaper) to battle for those spots.  

 

As far as Addison goes, I don't think he's that special.  Dan Boyle may have been about his height, but he had a lot more ability than Addison does on both sides of the puck.  I think Addison can distribute the puck but I don't think he's a real dangerous threat to score and I don't think he defends particularly well.  In my opinion, you can find players with that kind of M.O. all over the league and in any draft.  Small mobile puck movers...with some offensive ability.  Look at our prospect pool of defense prospects.  

 

Its full of around 6'0" puck mover guys who have some skill but are perhaps not going to be big scorers.  I don't see why Addison is this indispensible prospect; maybe 2-3 years ago...but not so much now.  

[IllaZilla]

Noticing the Wild's big off season acquisition was Pat Maroon, I think we are finally going to see the Wild rebuild, whether they want to call it that or not.

 

Their pattern of bringing in high priced free agents to build around, falling down in the first round, and then getting a low first round draft pick are just keeps the wheels of mediocrity spinning.

 

I'm actually mildly looking forward to this season to see exactly what the kids can do. Providing Evason doesn't keep them all on the fourth line...

[Tomdog]

I honestly believe BG would have gone into more of a rebuild mode earlier after the buyouts had it not been for the unexpected winning that came after the buyouts. 
If the Wild manage to stay in a playoff position I’m afraid they will prolong the rebuild for yet another year. 

[IllaZilla]

11 hours ago, Tomdog said:

I honestly believe BG would have gone into more of a rebuild mode earlier after the buyouts had it not been for the unexpected winning that came after the buyouts. 
If the Wild manage to stay in a playoff position I’m afraid they will prolong the rebuild for yet another year. 

Well, that's where he needs to make a hard decision. If he keeps delaying a rebuild because the team is winning, but continues to flame out in the first round, it's only going to perpetuate the cycle of mediocrity.

 

That's all this team has done. Get into the playoffs, and then flame out in the first round. Doesn't matter who the GM was, who the head coach was, or who was on the roster. One and done. So they need to do something different, because what they've been doing doesn't work.

 

 

[CreaseAndAssist]

27 minutes ago, IllaZilla said:

Well, that's where he needs to make a hard decision. If he keeps delaying a rebuild because the team is winning, but continues to flame out in the first round, it's only going to perpetuate the cycle of mediocrity.

 

That's all this team has done. Get into the playoffs, and then flame out in the first round. Doesn't matter who the GM was, who the head coach was, or who was on the roster. One and done. So they need to do something different, because what they've been doing doesn't work.

 

 

 

@IllaZilla You and I have have been saying this for years.  Wild have been in denial about a rebuild and the salary cap crunch should've made this an easy pivot instead they resist and we only delay the inevitable and just cement more years of mediocrity.  

 

I think he keeps delaying a rebuild because the owner lives in this ridiculous fantasy world that this team needs to pretend its trying to contend each year.  

[Tomdog]

The get in and maybe magic happens like Carolina and Montreal a few years ago is where ownership gets playoff happy comes from. 
Even though everyone knows that the properly constructed team will win the cup 99% of the time. 
Personally I think you guys are right. 
After dumping Parise and Suter they should have maximized their draft picks and assets for the 4 years of cap hell years. 

[IllaZilla]

8 hours ago, Tomdog said:

The get in and maybe magic happens like Carolina and Montreal a few years ago is where ownership gets playoff happy comes from. 
Even though everyone knows that the properly constructed team will win the cup 99% of the time. 
Personally I think you guys are right. 
After dumping Parise and Suter they should have maximized their draft picks and assets for the 4 years of cap hell years. 

 

I think that  "Just get in and it's a whole new season" thinking is horse-hockey. The Wild have never gone into the playoffs on all cylinders firing. They've stumbled in, tripped in, belly-flopped in, just to get their clocks cleaned. 

 

Until this team recognizes that #20+ first round draft picks aren't going to get the team past the first round, they are going to continue to do what they do: have a nice season, crash out of the playoffs, and then tell the fans "Wait 'til next season!"   

[Alexandron]

11 hours ago, Tomdog said:

The get in and maybe magic happens like Carolina and Montreal a few years ago is where ownership gets playoff happy comes from. 
Even though everyone knows that the properly constructed team will win the cup 99% of the time. 
Personally I think you guys are right. 
After dumping Parise and Suter they should have maximized their draft picks and assets for the 4 years of cap hell years. 

Still not sure if properly constructed team will win the cup 99% of the time. Too high percentage for me. Probably 70% is a hard teamwork of properly constructed team and 30% is a luck of the team in placing crucial goals in opposing net as well as avoiding harmful injuries for themselves during playoffs run. An example was Florida Panthers this playoffs, who was able to beat Boston during the round#1 (Bruins was the best team in entire NHL history in wins during this regular season), then Panthers were able to beat Toronto (one of the best productive team in NHL) during the round#2; and then they were able to beat Carolina during the round#3, which is also the best real Cup contender NHL team. Then Tkachuk got an injury during the final round against Vegas and that was it. I am also thinking that Vegas (Cup winner this season) didn't have as tough teams as Panthers had during their travel to the top of the win. But still Vegas success since they became an NHL team (6 years ago) should be carefully studied, especially all playoffs' seasons. What is their secret? 

[Tomdog]

The 99% comes from a properly constructed team playing a cinderella team in the finals. 
when is the last time a cinderella team actually won a Stanley cup?

[CreaseAndAssist]

17 hours ago, IllaZilla said:

 

I think that  "Just get in and it's a whole new season" thinking is horse-hockey. The Wild have never gone into the playoffs on all cylinders firing. They've stumbled in, tripped in, belly-flopped in, just to get their clocks cleaned. 

 

Until this team recognizes that #20+ first round draft picks aren't going to get the team past the first round, they are going to continue to do what they do: have a nice season, crash out of the playoffs, and then tell the fans "Wait 'til next season!"   

 

I agree.  Rarely has he team had momentum going into the post-season only to get bounced right away.  'Wait til' next season' might as well be this organization's permanent slogan.  

 

Cory Pronman of the Athletic rated the Wild's prospect pool 10th and that was in a grouping that included Matt Boldy and Brock Faber as prospects.  The Wild homers tripped over themselves saying Pronman is a Wild hater for saying the team has lots of forwards with skating issues and a big crop of 6'0" puck moving defenseman that have limited offensive potential.  Screams Stanley Cup contender to me...:rolleyes: 

[Math]

15 hours ago, Tomdog said:

The 99% comes from a properly constructed team playing a cinderella team in the finals. 
when is the last time a cinderella team actually won a Stanley cup?

 

In my recollection, never...

 

We can argue about the 2019 Blues or the 2012 Kings, but that's about it I think.

[IllaZilla]

4 hours ago, Math said:

 

In my recollection, never...

 

We can argue about the 2019 Blues or the 2012 Kings, but that's about it I think.

And both those teams had a goaltender who stood on his head…

[Tomdog]

9 minutes ago, IllaZilla said:

And both those teams had a goaltender who stood on his head…

And let’s face the Blues were a well structured/ constructed team. That it took as long as it did for them to get it together is what made them a little cinderella like. 

[IllaZilla]

23 hours ago, CreaseAndAssist said:

Cory Pronman of the Athletic rated the Wild's prospect pool 10th and that was in a grouping that included Matt Boldy and Brock Faber as prospects.  The Wild homers tripped over themselves saying Pronman is a Wild hater for saying the team has lots of forwards with skating issues and a big crop of 6'0" puck moving defenseman that have limited offensive potential.  Screams Stanley Cup contender to me...:rolleyes: 

 

Wasn't the Wild's prospect pool ranked #1 by The Athletic not too long ago? Like a year or less? If so, that's quite a drop if it was. 

[Alexandron]

And again, more thoughts from Tony Abbott about Marco Rossi. Definitely Tony has a talent to present a different analytic view regarding our players.

https://hockeywilderness.com/news-rumors/minnesota-wild/marco-rossi-has-to-overcome-everyone-elses-fears-r29542/

 

[Icechipper]

Faber is proof that if you can stand out among big Division 1 NCAA opponents you can make leap to NHL. 

[CreaseAndAssist]

On 8/25/2023 at 1:06 PM, Alexandron said:

And again, more thoughts from Tony Abbott about Marco Rossi. Definitely Tony has a talent to present a different analytic view regarding our players.

https://hockeywilderness.com/news-rumors/minnesota-wild/marco-rossi-has-to-overcome-everyone-elses-fears-r29542/

 

 

I know Tony, we've talked several times but even he knows its put up or shut up time with Marco Rossi.  He loves analytics so much he primarily sticks with the metrics.  If he is a good as the analytics crowd wants you to believe then why wasn't he leading Iowa beyond their play in series last year or beyond the 1st round the season before that?  

 

I don't see how Rossi was held back from doing just that in Iowa.  He had all of the prime ice time and opportunity to lead the way.  Why would I or anyone expect him to just flip a switch and dominate at the NHL level when he didn't do it at the AHL level?  

[CreaseAndAssist]

On 8/25/2023 at 6:58 PM, Icechipper said:

Faber is proof that if you can stand out among big Division 1 NCAA opponents you can make leap to NHL. 

 

I am not sure I buy that logic, because if that were true then a lot more guys from Quinnipiac should've received NHL opportunities.  They didn't.  Every league has its ringer who can dominate at that level but you promote them to a higher level their game, style, etc just doesn't deliver.  Faber's, at least from our small sample size of the playoffs looks promising and he has always demonstrated a lot of poise.  However, he will feel the grind of travel and playing 60+ games in a season for the first time in his career.  Sammy Walker certainly hit that wall after a fast start with Iowa last year.  It's a big adjustment from being two-game weekend warrior to 3-4 games every 5-6 days.  

[Alexandron]

21 hours ago, CreaseAndAssist said:

 

I am not sure I buy that logic, because if that were true then a lot more guys from Quinnipiac should've received NHL opportunities.  They didn't.  Every league has its ringer who can dominate at that level but you promote them to a higher level their game, style, etc just doesn't deliver.  Faber's, at least from our small sample size of the playoffs looks promising and he has always demonstrated a lot of poise.  However, he will feel the grind of travel and playing 60+ games in a season for the first time in his career.  Sammy Walker certainly hit that wall after a fast start with Iowa last year.  It's a big adjustment from being two-game weekend warrior to 3-4 games every 5-6 days.  

Agree. Big adjustment. And Marco Rossi hit that wall too last season when played 19 games and then he was benched for a couples of weeks because he didn't want to go back to Iowa.

[CreaseAndAssist]

On 8/29/2023 at 9:49 AM, Alexandron said:

Agree. Big adjustment. And Marco Rossi hit that wall too last season when played 19 games and then he was benched for a couples of weeks because he didn't want to go back to Iowa.

 

(shrugs)  AHL often has 3 games (Friday, Saturday, Sunday) for a lot of its teams to save travel costs.  Rossi, being a major junior player was probably more used to that than say a Brock Faber would be.  However, I wouldn't just chalk it up to travel as being the main culprit for Marco Rossi hitting a wall.  Fatigue; physical, mental and emotional is probably a more likely source...but either way, he wasn't delivering for Iowa when it needed him the most the last two seasons.  

[Alexandron]

Here is a recent NHL Tonight interview with Matt Boldy. That video is also presenting our offensive lines for this season. It seems Gaudreau will play in the 4th line with Maroon and Dewar. Rossi will play as a center with Foligno and Duhaime in a 3rd line. 2nd line will have Boldy-EEK-Johansson. And 1st line will be unchanged Kaprizov-Hartman-Zuccarello. They also said that defenseman Klingberg is not going to play for the Wild. I just looked for him - he will play for Toronto. I think he was a pretty good player, but probably too expensive for us and Wild made a room for Faber.

https://www.nhl.com/video/nhl-tonight-matt-boldy-wild-345708470