Add Tortorella to the list that rips Pens, Malkin & Crosby

[TedZep]

Don't sit here and tell me that those guys do not take just as many liberties with their sticks or with hooks or slashes or whatever AND don't get called for it all the time

Crosby admitted his stick work. You can go back and watch the game and the cameras catch him slashing people at least four times without getting called. They catch Malkin punching Giroux in the back of the head twice without getting called. They catch Malkin punching Couturier at least two different times without getting called. The camera shows Vitale leaning his knee into Grossman, not incidental at all. Asham punches Rinaldo and Rinaldo gets a penalty. First time I've seen someone get bounced for hitting another guy in the mind.

OK, there is my easily verifiable list of egregious non-calls. You cannot come up with a similar list, not even almost close. You statement is sheer hyperbole while we offer nothing but facts.

But I tell you what: I hope that we Flyers fans get a chance to unconscionably defend a series of dirty, malicious plays that went uncalled. I would like to say "hey man, he was on the ice, sorry he's out for the season. Too bad my guy is alright. Ha ha!" I would like to see how that feels.

[terp]

Milbury is only "prominent" when he crosses over the line that a more respected commentator would not.

Apparently the words "prominent" and "borderline" have been redefined in Pittsburgh (where "respected" is a term reserved for shills like Bob Errey).

Spin away, but I say this whole thing is bad for the Pens.

[aziz]

OK, there is my easily verifiable list of egregious non-calls. You cannot come up with a similar list, not even almost close.

tomorrow, get a notepad out for the game. each time a flyers dman crosschecks someone in the crease, write it down. each time hartnell gets his gloves into someone's face, write it down. each time giroux chops someone across the ankles, write it down. each time rinaldo or courturier or schenn keep going at someone after the whistle, write it down. your list will be LONG. LONG LONG LONG. because these things happen all the freaking time in the NHL. stop acting like this is the NCAA. i smile when flyers dmen abuse guys in front of the net. i smile when hartnell gloves a guy in the face. i smile when giroux gets his stick into someone. i smile when the flyers take shots at the other team after the whistle. it's flyers hockey. those should all be penalties, technically, but they happen a hundred times every game and tend to be let go. and i smile.

the problem is that goes both ways. i can't stand seeing flyers fans crying about it.

[canoli]

crosby falling down after a ninja crosscheck

however you characterize it, what I think is - unusual shall we say? - is Crosby's reaction. How many times have we all been shoved to the ice from behind? Have you ever not jumped back up and immediately looked for (hunted down) your "ninja" assassin? Bobby Clarke "hid" behind his enforcers too but ... well I'll leave it there.

[aziz]

however you characterize it, what I think is - unusual shall we say? - is Crosby's reaction. How many times have we all been shoved to the ice from behind? Have you ever not jumped back up and immediately looked for (hunted down) your "ninja" assassin?

i agree there. he looks for the ref right away, and when no arm was up he slinks off to the bench. i would hope any flyer in the same spot would jump up and go after the guy that just ambushed him, i agree.

i won't argue that he isn't a btch. he is.

[pilldoc]

the problem is that goes both ways. i can't stand seeing flyers fans crying about it.

@aziz, not disagreeing with you at all, matter of fact most of the posters would agree with you it goes boths ways. However, i think what upsets most of us is the majority of the time a Flyer does any extra-curricular stuff, the Flyers most always (not all the time), gets nailed with a penalty.

With Crybaby and the rest of his whinos, is that when they start acting like Paul Bunyan with their sticks or any other infraction, the refs vey seldom ever call a penalty.(though they do occasionally) Hey, I have no problem if Hartsy whacks somebody and gets nailed for a slash. (Might be ticked he did in the first place)

BUT.....

When Crosby breaks his stick when he slashes Vorechek and there is no penalty because the refs turn a blind eye, thats when I get a little pissy.

Though I can't speak for the rest of the members on here, I feel strongly that most feel the same way.

Just call the game as defined by the rules and give penalties to those who earn them and not make that determination based on what color sweater they are wearing nor what name or number or is on their back.

It is apparent that this not always the case and that is what is pisssing everyone off.

[Spinorama]

it's hard for me to work up a good hatred for the Rangers, I like Fonzi, they compete for every inch of ice, their goaltender is terrific, and pretty cool ,, they play the game hard but clean, and seemed like decent people on 24/7. if they wouldn't be the Rangers i'd probably keep my eye on them in a good way.

good for torts for calling it like he sees it.

I have to agree. Normally it's easy to HATE a rival but how can you hate the Rangers? They're good, and they do it right. I love Torts too, back when we needed a coach I longed for him, he'd have been a great O&B guy.

[sarsippius]

Normally it's easy to HATE a rival but how can you hate the Rangers?

I can hate the Rangers because they have New York before their name

[Spinorama]

haha, I have family in New York so I guess they get the pass. It's funny though, I was thinking about it a little bit and it is weird how I don't hate this team. I don't like them but there isn't that passionate hate that I've had for past Rangers teams.

[mojo1917]

I can hate the Rangers because they have New York before their name

well i mean , i'm not going out an buying a dubinsky sweater tomorrow, simply because they are a new york team, i'm just sayin' if the flyers get bumped out of the playoffs and the rags are still playing, i'd proxy them... them and the preds.

[aziz]

However, i think what upsets most of us is the majority of the time a Flyer does any extra-curricular stuff, the Flyers most always (not all the time), gets nailed with a penalty.

With Crybaby and the rest of his whinos, is that when they start acting like Paul Bunyan with their sticks or any other infraction, the refs vey seldom ever call a penalty.(though they do occasionally)

if i can play armchair psychologist here for a sec, we as flyers fans do not notice all the extra curricular stuff the flyers do. we watch 70+ games every season, and are not specifically on the lookout for things the flyers are getting away with. it doesn't even occur to us that the punch to the face that hartnell threw during some random post-whistle scrum is actually a penalty, and so we don't register that he just got away with something. it's hockey, that's part of the game, and we forget it happened seconds after the event. like i said earlier, hartnell breaks the rules 20, 30 times every game. it just isn't a big deal and we don't think anything of it.

enter the penguins, and specifically malkin and crosby. now, flyers fans are very specifically looking for stuff that those two get away with. every play, we're sitting there going, "that could have been called, that could have been called, that could have been called" and are getting pissed with each one. that same punch to the face that hartnell threw above -the one we didn't really even think about- if malkin throws the same one, it ends up on someone's list here that night as an example of the murder the penguins get away with.

at the end of the game, we have a huge list of things the penguins got away with, while we can't remember a single thing the flyers did. it isn't because the flyers didn't do anything, it's because we didn't care to register them. scott hartnell is a dirty player and doesn't spend anywhere near the amount of time in the box that he should. i love it, but that's the reality.

watch the game tomorrow, and do two things. one, try to not fixate on what calls don't get made against the penguins. two, make a mental note each time the flyers do something that *could* have been called, by strict interpretation of the rulebook, but weren't. you will end up with a list every bit as long as the one you would normally have for the penguins.

this last situation has me particularly annoyed, because the penguins did exactly what i would want the flyers to do in the same situation. actually, they did less, because at the end of a lopsided game against a division rival who we were gonna see in another week, i would want the flyers to go out and actually instigate something. not with a clean check, with fists. push them around, let them know that they may've won this one but they are going to pay a price for it, and the flyers still have something to say. i think we would all agree with that. the penguins did it, though (the very diet version of it, i might add), and all of a sudden people here are shocked and appalled, how dare they goon it up once the game was obviously lost. please. we're flyer fans. that stuff is our team's bread and butter. get over it.

[canoli]

[aziz]

@canoli

@me, i presume?

[Spinorama]

this last situation has me particularly annoyed, because the penguins did exactly what i would want the flyers to do in the same situation. actually, they did less, because at the end of a lopsided game against a division rival who we were gonna see in another week, i would want the flyers to go out and actually instigate something. not with a clean check, with fists. push them around, let them know that they may've won this one but they are going to pay a price for it

I totally agree with you so don't get me wrong, but you are confusing me. Isn't this the same guy who said he DIDN'T condone answering good hockey with goon hockey?

What's funny though, I want the Flyers to exact revenge for what happened in the previous game against Pitt, but I'd rather it not happen in a meaningless regular season game with the playoffs (against the same team) only a week away. Could you imagine if we lost a few guys during that game trying to get them back and then put ourselves in whole a the most important time of the season? The flip side could occur sure but I'd rather concede the game and just get to the playoffs rested and healthy, no point in fighting the war BEFORE it actually is here.

[aziz]

I totally agree with you so don't get me wrong, but you are confusing me. Isn't this the same guy who said he DIDN'T condone answering good hockey with goon hockey?

what, you mean how i dislike fighting a guy for laying a clean check?

i don't think those are incompatible. if the game is out of hand with a few minutes left, i'm a fan of putting your biggest guys out there and ignoring the puck the rest of the way. hit everything you see and hit it hard. maybe don't just grab guys and start punching, but if tying things on the scoreboard is no longer an obtainable objective, by all means even it up elsewhere. especially if you are going to see the same team in a week, and most especially if you are likely to face them in the playoffs in a week and a half.

edit: this is as opposed to becoming offended by a clean hockey play at other points of the game, the fighting guys for clean checks.

Edited April 6, 2012 by aziz

[Spinorama]

that's one example. That was what sparked our discussion but when I was talking about it, my point (which I couldn't seem to convey) was more with sending a message that our boys aren't going to be pushed around. if that ends up being a fight so be it but I didn't have a problem for guys standing up for each other.

as for the second paragraph. got it. I was misunderstood. ya gave the impression that you didn't think there was a place in the game for such shennigans.

[aziz]

ya gave the impression that you didn't think there was a place in the game for such shennigans.

sorry about that. no, i deffinitely think there is a place for shennigans. i just don't like the idea that clean hits have to be punished. imo, it has the effect of discouraging big hits. and i like big hits. if a guy figures the whistle is going to blow and he is going to have to fight someone for knocking a guy down, he isn't going to knock guys down all that often. enter stickchecking as the go-to.

[Spinorama]

sorry about that. no, i deffinitely think there is a place for shennigans. i just don't like the idea that clean hits have to be punished. imo, it has the effect of discouraging big hits. and i like big hits. if a guy figures the whistle is going to blow and he is going to have to fight someone for knocking a guy down, he isn't going to knock guys down all that often. enter stickchecking as the go-to.

in that scenario, I couldn't agree more. anything that will deter big hits is a no no to me. I was looking at it more of one guy will lay out the big hit, and then it escalates from there with big hits coming left and right and fights left and right.... thinking about that making me think about when the Flyers rolled the 3 Dan line... ah, the good 'ol days

[Adamflyers]

?

man

he was crosschecked from behind by a guy he didn't even know was there on his way to the bench way after the whistle. like, 10 seconds after the whistle. if you are just skating down the ice and i come up from behind and jam you in the small of the back, you are gonna fall down, too.

and of course he had no problem hitting schenn. schenn had just cleared the puck, and crosby put his shoulder into him.

a half second late hit on schenn by crosby is the worst thing ever, and crosby falling down after a ninja crosscheck is the other worse thing ever.

people, this is embarrassing. the amount of baseless whining coming out of the flyers fan base about crosby makes all the crying to the refs he does look downright dignified. hate the guy. hate the team. but good lord, stop trying to justify it with this 6 yearold playground crap.

With Crosby's track record of diving, I don't think it is baseless to suggest that he might have embellished his fall once he felt Schenn hitting him. Now upon reading your post, I re-watched the hit and I can agree that Schenn pushed him down harder then I recalled, though I hardly consider it a "ninja cross check". I obviously see the events differently then you do, so I'm not going to argue with you about it because it will only lead to back and forth with no resolution.

[aziz]

I re-watched the hit and I can agree that Schenn pushed him down harder then I recalled, though I hardly consider it a "ninja cross check".

ninja meaning crosby had no idea it was coming. which means no chance to brace for it, and no time to plan to embelish it.

[pilldoc]

if i can play armchair psychologist here for a sec, we as flyers fans do not notice all the extra curricular stuff the flyers do. we watch 70+ games every season, and are not specifically on the lookout for things the flyers are getting away with. it doesn't even occur to us that the punch to the face that hartnell threw during some random post-whistle scrum is actually a penalty, and so we don't register that he just got away with something. it's hockey, that's part of the game, and we forget it happened seconds after the event. like i said earlier, hartnell breaks the rules 20, 30 times every game. it just isn't a big deal and we don't think anything of it.

enter the penguins, and specifically malkin and crosby. now, flyers fans are very specifically looking for stuff that those two get away with. every play, we're sitting there going, "that could have been called, that could have been called, that could have been called" and are getting pissed with each one. that same punch to the face that hartnell threw above -the one we didn't really even think about- if malkin throws the same one, it ends up on someone's list here that night as an example of the murder the penguins get away with.

at the end of the game, we have a huge list of things the penguins got away with, while we can't remember a single thing the flyers did. it isn't because the flyers didn't do anything, it's because we didn't care to register them. scott hartnell is a dirty player and doesn't spend anywhere near the amount of time in the box that he should. i love it, but that's the reality.

watch the game tomorrow, and do two things. one, try to not fixate on what calls don't get made against the penguins. two, make a mental note each time the flyers do something that *could* have been called, by strict interpretation of the rulebook, but weren't. you will end up with a list every bit as long as the one you would normally have for the penguins.

this last situation has me particularly annoyed, because the penguins did exactly what i would want the flyers to do in the same situation. actually, they did less, because at the end of a lopsided game against a division rival who we were gonna see in another week, i would want the flyers to go out and actually instigate something. not with a clean check, with fists. push them around, let them know that they may've won this one but they are going to pay a price for it, and the flyers still have something to say. i think we would all agree with that. the penguins did it, though (the very diet version of it, i might add), and all of a sudden people here are shocked and appalled, how dare they goon it up once the game was obviously lost. please. we're flyer fans. that stuff is our team's bread and butter. get over it.

after reading your long winded reply....I agree with you, not arguing at all. You are reading way too much into my post. The game happens way too fast for any of us to fully see the grand scope of things. (we can't watch all 10 players at the same time).

I am not totally picking on Crosby, it was just that one instance of a slash not being called, BUT there is a perception that the Pens get away with more than they should. Look I have been a fan of hockey going all the way back to the early 80's and the LCB line. I am certainly aware what goes on. I agree Hartsy gets away with his share too. (as do other players)

Why you decided to bring up the end of the game, I don't know. I don't have a problem with the hit on Briere. I never made mention of that fact in my post. My beef is squarely how many of the blatant calls the pens get away with. And yes..I know the Flyers get away with their fair share. There have been times I have watched a replay and let out a sigh of relief knowing we got away with one.

In an age of technology, it is amazing how we can disect every minute of every game. We know how many times who got a way with what and when. Hell we have so many camera angles it is impossible not to find fault with something.

Again I digress, it is a percieved perception that it seems like the Pens get away with more.

[pilldoc]

ninja meaning crosby had no idea it was coming. which means no chance to brace for it, and no time to plan to embelish it.

funny I remember looking at my wife after it happend. I laughed and said...."Well that is gonna start a war!"

[aziz]

@pilldoc

i think i spilled my thoughts on this whole thing into that post to you. you're right, you really shouldn't have been the target of all of that. i just started ranting.

it's a variation on the "the league is out to get the flyers" thing that circles around, and it's always bothered me.

so, sorry for the overly directed post.

[Adamflyers]

ninja meaning crosby had no idea it was coming. which means no chance to brace for it, and no time to plan to embelish it.

Ah, ok well that makes more sense. Still, Crosby is the boy who cried wolf in my eyes. It is hard for me to think he is being genuine when he falls half the time.

[pilldoc]

@aziz...not a problem..all is good.