Add Tortorella to the list that rips Pens, Malkin & Crosby

[aziz]

Still, Crosby is the boy who cried wolf in my eyes. It is hard for me to think he is being genuine when he falls half the time.

i totally get that. had to watch it a few times myself, to look at the timing of it. the guy has given himself a reputation on that front, no doubt.

[canoli]

@canoli

@me, i presume?

Ya, a small attempt at humor. It's not you it's your (part of) argument in this thread. Maybe I missed it (i didn't read every word of this thread I admit) but I just don't see a whole lot of "Flyers' fans crying" about Blysma sending out his tough guys against Briere/Schenn/Simmonds.

At this point I'm a little out of the loop. I saw Torts was complaining about similar actions of the Pens this week, but for me it was only about Crosby and Blysma pretending there was no message-sending, blaming the Flyers for being the aggressors and then Crosby actually saying - in so many words - "it's not my fault, the Flyers bring out the worst in me."

Now I read Tortorella was fined 20 grand. Twenty thousand U.S. dollars. For speaking out against the Penguins. For words. Words. Jesuschrist. What the hell is going on here? Didn't Gary's mommy teach him "sticks and stones..."? Does anyone live by that motto anymore?

[pilldoc]

."? Does anyone live by that motto anymore?

@canoli....ah...no

[aziz]

Now I read Tortorella was fined 20 grand. Twenty thousand U.S. dollars. For speaking out against the Penguins. For words. Words. Jesuschrist. What the hell is going on here? Didn't Gary's mommy teach him "sticks and stones..."? Does anyone live by that motto anymore?

i imagine that total has something to do with the fine tortorella got for bitching about the referees after the winter classic. remember, he was fined $30k for that one. at this point, he is an inappropriate-statements-to-the-press repeat offender. thus, i think, the doubling of laviolette's fine.

[colorado_al]

Bring up the Phantoms and let them hit anyone they want the entire game.... legal of course <g>.

Al

[AndyS]

Now I read Tortorella was fined 20 grand. Twenty thousand U.S. dollars. For speaking out against the Penguins. For words. Words. . . . . What the hell is going on here? Didn't Gary's mommy teach him "sticks and stones..."? Does anyone live by that motto anymore?

It was probably for his comments about waiting to see what the league would do (if anything) about the hit on Stepan.

And, of course, he was right. He gets fined, while the dude who took out Stepan with the dirty hit faces no supplementary punishment whatsoever.

Just stupid. If the NHL is worried that people are noticing their pro-Penguins bias, they have a funny wayy of showing it.

Can't wait for the playoffs to start. Please let us crush the Penguins.

[B21]

@Vanflyer

<< Its not sour grapes. Its just a long overdue coming out party for two of the biggest hacks in the league. Nobody will deny the skill. Two of the best players in the league. Yet both players have chosen to play a style that is below board. It is the same lament with Ovechkin- but even worse. Ovechkin consistently "charges" players. You take a player like Datsyuk, the Sedins, Stamkos and even Giroux. All elite talents and they don't 10% of the crap that Crosby and Malkin do. For too long now there has been a ridiculous level of protection for both players and its about time for it to stop. You got your cup (gifted by the league) and there is not further reason to continue this coveting and blind eye by the league. >>

I am so tired of these broad statements..."level of protection". Fine. If that is your point (and it seems to the point of many fans of the Fyers and Rangers these days) give me an example. How does the league "protect" Crosby and Malkin.

Does the league not call penalties on them? We know that is not true. Look at their PIM versus players of comparable skill sets. It's higher. If the league called every penalty on Crosby that you are calling for he'd be a 300 PIM guy. His game does not strike me as a 300 PIM game. And if he's a 300 PIM guy, Hartnell has to be at least a 400 PIM guy.

Do they get away with more than other stars? We know that's not true either. If any Flyer fan can take the O&B goggles of you will see that Jagr, Hartnell and Giroux get away with hooks, slashes, even PUNCHES (there is a great video of Hartnell repeatedly punching a Devils player in the back of the head during play...no penaly and no suspension) all the time. Funny I didn't see anyone calling Hartnell "cheap" or "dirty" for his antics in the Devlis game.

Has Crosby missed significant time with a concussion due, in part, to a questionable hit (the Steckel hit)? Yes. If the league wanted to "protect" him then why was there no suspension for Steckel? I mean, if you are protecting a guy wouldn't even the slightest questionable hit be punished? It sure would. Of course since he is NOT protected, there was no suspension. If a star player was slew footed by a guy with a "history" wouldn't a league trying to "protect" that star player suspend him for multiple games? I would think so. Of course that player got off with a $1,000 fine.

Now apparently Malkin is a hypcocrite because he complains, too? Really? Are Torts and Berube serious on that one? Fine. Show me. Prove it. I have never denied Malklin plays on the edge and does not shy away from the occasional late hit or post-whistle whack. Guess what? That applies to half the league. Malkin also takes a lot more abuse than most players. You almost never see Malkin bark at an official or make a controversial quote in the press. He barely speaks English. But now he's lumped in to the "complaining" role because..well...Tortsie and Berube said so. The same Tortsie who was fined $30,000 after the WC for...complaining. The same Tortsie who whines about ANYTHING that does not go his teams' way.

<< Its not sour grapes of jealousy, but just a utter disdain for the character of players they are. Its not entirely their fault as the NHL has assisted in perpetrating their styles. I know you are a pittsburgh fan and thus have some tainted glasses. What kind of player punches a guy in the balls or in the back of the head multiple times when the other player engaged with another player? >>

Back of the head? Well, Hartnell for one. To the balls? I'll take Briere on that one. There is another broad statement..."the NHL has assisted in perpetrating their styles." Fine. Show me how. Is it because Crosby was in the most commercials at one point? Is it all those suspensions levied for hits on Crosby and Malkin? Oh wait...there are none. Is it Crosby and Malking getting away with things that every NHL players gets away with?

Have all the disdain you want. They are Pens after all. You aren't supposed to like them. But the BS bias/coddling/conspiracy/protecting that has been ferstering among Flyers fans (and now Rangers apparently) is just that...BS. And now that Milbury and Tortorella have jumped on the bandwagon, you are going to tell me "Look! See! It is true"? Two of the biggest and least credible complainers possible.

[Lindbergh31]

@terp

<< Interesting rebuttle because Shero did indeed comment about concussions. The only problem was that Milbury didn't "make light of" Sid's concussions. Shero was playing the victim, but the offense never occurred. So it was an odd thing to complain about. In fact, it sounded like more whining. >>

You obviouly pick and choose what you want to believe. You have it engraved into your mind that there is bias for my team and against yours despite all the facts proving otherwise. The same goes for these latest issues. Shero did not play the victim. He had issues with Milbury making light of Crosby's concussion history (which Milbury did in fact do). Now Milbury is a "prominent" broadcast personality? If you were able to add "well respected" to that you have an argument. But you can't...becuase is isn't. And neither is much of what he says...unless of course it conveniently makes your argument. Milbury is wrong...plain and simple. As was Laviolette and Berube and Torts.

<< So far as your comment about Flyers fans, this is an apples to oranges comparison. Two head coaches, an assistant coach and a prominent broadcast personality called out the organization and their marquee players. This isn't perception, it's fact and it is damaging to the Pens' brand. The Pens would be wise to take this seriously and do something other than malign the sources and complain about invented offenses against their club. >>

Apples to oranges...but still fruit. Your argument...it must be true because X, Y and Z said so. Same as mine. Poll the fans of other teams and I guarantee the whiniest fan title goes to Philly. So it must be true then because enough people said so (using your rationale).

By the way, how did the Pens malign the sources? Please post the malicious comments made by the Pens in response to Laviolette, Milbury, Berube and Torts.

As long as Lemieux and the Pens employ Matt Cooke on their team, no other team in the league will take them seriously when it comes to the discussion of concussions. Second, if Orpik did indeed plan to stick out his knee on Stephan then he should be out as long as Stephan. You'll never convince opposing fans that the Pens don't get special treatment from the refs or the league because they have Crosby on their team, it's no different than Gretzky and the Oilers in the 80's.

Tort's point about what would have happened to a Ranger player if he would have hit Crosby or Malkin the way Orpik did on Stepan, he would have been suspended at least 5 games. How come the league hasn't said anything regarding the Orpik hit yet they already suspended the Minnesota player who headed butted Mayers from Chicago the next day, what's the league waiting for.

I've never had a problem that I can't stand winning a championship as long as they win it fairly without special help from the refs. The series between the Flyers and Pens should be a dandy, hopefully the refs will let them decide the outcome, if they're letting one team get away with stuff then they better let the other side get away with the same. If so then the stronger one will survive and as a fan that's all you can ask.

[B21]

Crosby admitted his stick work. You can go back and watch the game and the cameras catch him slashing people at least four times without getting called. They catch Malkin punching Giroux in the back of the head twice without getting called. They catch Malkin punching Couturier at least two different times without getting called. The camera shows Vitale leaning his knee into Grossman, not incidental at all. Asham punches Rinaldo and Rinaldo gets a penalty. First time I've seen someone get bounced for hitting another guy in the mind.

OK, there is my easily verifiable list of egregious non-calls. You cannot come up with a similar list, not even almost close. You statement is sheer hyperbole while we offer nothing but facts.

But I tell you what: I hope that we Flyers fans get a chance to unconscionably defend a series of dirty, malicious plays that went uncalled. I would like to say "hey man, he was on the ice, sorry he's out for the season. Too bad my guy is alright. Ha ha!" I would like to see how that feels.

I'd respond but post #53 (to you) beat me to it...and kinda sums it up.

Instead of watching a game solely to see what the Pens get away with, just watch to enjoy. You'll live longer.

[sarsippius]

i'm just sayin' if the flyers get bumped out of the playoffs and the rags are still playing, i'd proxy them... them and the preds.

Yeccchh. If the Rags were playing North Korea, I'd be wearing a Kim Jon Il shirt...ok well not really, but my primal deep rooted hate goes back to the playoff wars of the 70s and 80s. I hate the team, the town, the as*hole fans, the logo, all of it.

[canoli]

he is an inappropriate-statements-to-the-press repeat offender.

oh that's right, forgot all about that WC nonsense.

I don't know if 20K or 30K is painful to these guys or not - head coaches - but it's a helluva lot of money for speaking your mind, whether you're criticizing the officials or calling another club "arrogant" and "dirty." I mean really where's the harm? It's just an opinion, or like Crosby calls it "gamesmanship." Whatever it is I think the NHL is kind of corny fining guys over it.

[B21]

@Lindbergh31

<< As long as Lemieux and the Pens employ Matt Cooke on their team, no other team in the league will take them seriously when it comes to the discussion of concussions. >>

Very fair point and I agree 100%. But Boston has Lucic and Marchand...so that means they cannot complain about the hit on Savard?

<< Second, if Orpik did indeed plan to stick out his knee on Stephan then he should be out as long as Stephan. You'll never convince opposing fans that the Pens don't get special treatment from the refs or the league because they have Crosby on their team, it's no different than Gretzky and the Oilers in the 80's. >>

See post 82 above. So if the league goes out of the way to protect them why wasn't Downie suspended for a very cheap and dirty slew on Crosby? Explain that one.

<< Tort's point about what would have happened to a Ranger player if he would have hit Crosby or Malkin the way Orpik did on Stepan, he would have been suspended at least 5 games. How come the league hasn't said anything regarding the Orpik hit yet they already suspended the Minnesota player who headed butted Mayers from Chicago the next day, what's the league waiting for. >>

Again...just like Downie was suspended? Or Steckel? How many slew foots did OV get away with before he finally got suspended? Orpik got 5, 10 and game. Fair.

<< I've never had a problem that I can't stand winning a championship as long as they win it fairly without special help from the refs. >>

I agree. The refs really did screw the Pens when not once but twice they missed a Red Wings player covering the puck in the crease with their hand. That's two penalty shots not awarded...and we know how good the Pens are on penalty shots. Of course all I hear about is how Malkin didn't get an instigator.

[mojo1917]

@B21

i reckon somewhere there are people that may read your comments and say... you know what, that guy makes a good case for his team being just like every other team in the leauge, maybe i should give those poor ol' pens some slack... but those people are on the columbus blue jackets board or the chicago blackhawks board, probably not on any team's board that plays in the eastern conference and sees them more than 2 times a year.

just saying your sysiphian effort here is admirable; but in the end, most of us don't like your team , don't like it's two best players. We resent the fact that after a long history of the "rivalry" being akin to fire's rivalry with kindling in the favor of the flyers, a team that has gone bankrupt, nearly been moved multiple times in its history, lucked into generaltional talents not once but twice because they could not suck enough... And now this model franchise has one more cup than the flyers who since expansion have more 100pts seasons than evey team but boston , not to mention the boatload of stillers fans out front pulling the band wagon and making true fans like yourself look bad. that's all i'm saying.

[mojo1917]

@sarsippius

well there is nothing that warms the heart like some deep rooted sports team hate...

i get it.

Edited April 7, 2012 by mojo1917

[B21]

@B21

i reckon somewhere there are people that may read your comments and say... you know what, that guy makes a good case for his team being just like every other team in the leauge, maybe i should give those poor ol' pens some slack... but those people are on the columbus blue jackets board or the chicago blackhawks board, probably not on any team's board that plays in the eastern conference and sees them more than 2 times a year.

just saying your sysiphian effort here is admirable; but in the end, most of us don't like your team , don't like it's two best players. We resent the fact that after a long history of the "rivalry" being akin to fire's rivalry with kindling in the favor of the flyers, a team that has gone bankrupt, nearly been moved multiple times in its history, lucked into generaltional talents not once but twice because they could not suck enough... And now this model franchise has one more cup than the flyers who since expansion have more 100pts seasons than evey team but boston , not to mention the boatload of stillers fans out front pulling the band wagon and making true fans like yourself look bad. that's all i'm saying.

I will admit...I had to look up "sisyphean". I've never been much for Greek mythology. Great analogy though.

Everything you say is true...they lucked into Crosby. A perfect "storm" of events got them Malkin, Staal and Fleury (none of which included tanking). They have won 3 Cups since your last. They are often called a "model franchise" which I disagree with....only once Crosby and Malkin are gone will I call them that assuming they have maintained their success both on AND off the ice. All legitimate reasons not too like them...plus we are friggin' rivals.

So I'll ask a favorite rhetorical question...why the need for all the other non-sense? It's not like there isn't enough for you to dislike them in that short paragraph I just wrote.

[sarsippius]

@mojo1917

lol yeah, kinda gives me a warm, smarmy irrational feeling of comfort

[sarsippius]

So I'll ask a favorite rhetorical question...why the need for all the other non-sense? It's not like there isn't enough for you to dislike them in that short paragraph I just wrote.

Because Crosby has girl lips.

[mojo1917]

@B21

i think malkin is ugly ? sidney looks like the lost jonas brother ? our team hasn't played like the bullies for about 20 years yet the moniker sticks and so does the perception. while your team has some guys who've gooned it up pretty good in their careers and some other players who know their way around a slash away from the play and are perceived as victims ?

that a phantom hook on jeff carter leading to a pens powerplay goal, and ultimately a pens victory , was a turning point in a game the flyers were going to win ?( i mean heads up play by staal but that call never goes my teams way in that situation) this is probably where some of the nonsense cones from.

plus, like the conversation i'm having with @sarsippius, sporting hate is the just about the last place where men can talk smack and not worry about the other guy's psyche.

Edited April 7, 2012 by mojo1917

[B21]

Because Crosby has girl lips.

Oh yeah? Well...Hartnell was an understudy in "Annie". Take that.

And Briere is short...

[B21]

@mojo1917

<< i think malkin is ugly ? sidney looks like the lost jonas brother ? our team hasn't played like the bullies for about 20 years yet the moniker sticks and so does the perception. >>

Ahah! PO'd about perception? I know how you feel.

<< while your team has some guys who've gooned it up pretty good in their careers and some other players who know their way around a slash away from the play and are peceived as victims ? >>

Who perceives them as victims? When I argue that a Crosby or a Malkin put up with more than their share of after-the-whistle antics or when I point out questionable hits that have gone unpunished, it's not to paint them as "victims". It simply to show that there really is no bias or this "protection" from the league that I hear so much about. For the record, Crosby and Malkin are not victims.

Speaking of crying victim, how long did Torts enable Sean Avery? He cries victim more than any other coach in the league....agree? But now he's crying victim while taking shots at the Pens. So that's OK. Nonsense.

<< the phantom hook on jeff carter leading to a pens powerplay goal, and ultimately a pens victory , was a turning point in a game the flyers were going to win ?( i mean heads up play by staal but that call never goes my teams way in that situation) this is probably where some of the nonsense cones from. >>

So kill the penalty! If you want a laudry list of calls that went against the Pens I could make one if I had the time to go back and watch every game again. I recall a game against the Rags last year where a phantom hook was called on one of our d-mem with the Pens up 1 and under 2:00 to go. It happens to every team at some point. You gotta let it go. Or not if it helps.

<< plus, like the conversation i'm having with @sarsippius, sporting hate is the just about the last place where men can talk smack and not worry about the other guy's psyche. >>

Hey, I could not agree more. But this is a hockey forum with fans of all teams. If you call out a team or player you can expect a response.

[sarsippius]

Hahaha Annie, nice. Coincidentally Andrea McCardle (Annie) sang the national anthem on occasion before Flyers games in the late 70's or early 80's, so you may be on to something there

[pensuck]

I find it funny that a pens fan (B21)is on a Flyers board trying to prove his point among Flyers fans. Why even respond to the guy. He sees everything the way he chooses to see it, through pissbuburgh colored glasses. You're not going to convince him of anything why even respond to his drivel? How desperate of a person goes on a Flyers board to drum up support for his team which we all hate? Let him go to Lets Go Pens board where he has fellow Cindy and Malkin man crushes to talk to.

[Lindbergh31]

<<Very fair point and I agree 100%. But Boston has Lucic and Marchand...so that means they cannot complain about the hit on Savard?>>

Fair point, but Shero doesn't need to get on his soap box everytime someone brings up Crosby concussions history, Milbury's comments were an ill attempt of humour in trying to bring the fact of if Crosby is going to keep playing with edge he could end up with another concussion and he'll have nobody to blame but himself.

<< See post 82 above. So if the league goes out of the way to protect them why wasn't Downie suspended for a very cheap and dirty slew on Crosby? Explain that one.>>

You'll have to ask Colin Campbell why Downie didn't get suspended since he was a repeat offender like Matt Cooke so he should have. Most Flyers fans never claimed Downie was an angel, just the same that Pens fans should not claim that Crosby is an angel either.

<<Again...just like Downie was suspended? Or Steckel? How many slew foots did OV get away with before he finally got suspended? Orpik got 5, 10 and game. Fair.>>

Fair if other players who made the same type of hit got the same treatment, I forget the player who got suspended 4 games for the knee on knee hit similar to Orpik, so explain why Orpik wouldn't get the same punishment?

<<I agree. The refs really did screw the Pens when not once but twice they missed a Red Wings player covering the puck in the crease with their hand. That's two penalty shots not awarded...and we know how good the Pens are on penalty shots. Of course all I hear about is how Malkin didn't get an instigator.>>

The reason why all you hear is how Malkin didn't get an instigator is the fact it was a rule in place that was cut and dry and Campbell overturned it without real explanation as to why he did. As for the covering the puck in the crease, ask the refs as to why they didn't call that. Heck, if you're going to go that route, explain why the refs made the phantom hooking call on Staal by Jeff Carter when the Pens were down by one in the series against the Flyers. Refs in the NHL as everyone knows, half the time can't get the calls right and there is two of them on the ice.

Your Pens fan and I'm a Flyer fans and there is no disputing that we can't stand each other's team. Let's hope that it's a heck of a series, the refs let the players decide the games and the winning team deserves to the win the series by their own merits and not anyone else's. Chances are the team that survives this series won't have much left in the tank for the next team they meet in the second round.

[TedZep]

and kinda sums it up.

I hate when people use the expression "white flag" but you just raised one. I asked YOU, not that apologist, to come up with a similar list of offenses since "everyone does it." But you chose not to, because you can't. It wasn't just me looking for such things, the announcing crew pointed out just about every single thing I mentioned. I didn't notice that Crosby had slashed Schenn prior to the crosscheck, but they were looking for it because of all the other ones Crosby got away with. As he admitted. Why can't you? These are facts, verifiable incidences, of the Pens being dirty, getting away with it and then whining because other teams are calling them on their shenanigans.

Give a time signature where a Flyer punched a Pen in that game and got away with it. Give me some tiny shred of anything to back up your wild and unfounded assertions. That's all we ask: back up what you claim. Back it up.

[B21]

@Lindbergh31

<< Fair point, but Shero doesn't need to get on his soap box everytime someone brings up Crosby concussions history, Milbury's comments were an ill attempt of humour in trying to bring the fact of if Crosby is going to keep playing with edge he could end up with another concussion and he'll have nobody to blame but himself. >>

But Shero does not get up on his soap box everytime Crosby's concussion history comes up. He was po'd THIS time and rightfully so. Milbury's comments were way more than just an bad attempt at humor. It's one thing to call out a guy for mixing it up after saying he wouldn't after a concussion. It's another to make a pretty off color remark about it.

<< You'll have to ask Colin Campbell why Downie didn't get suspended since he was a repeat offender like Matt Cooke so he should have. Most Flyers fans never claimed Downie was an angel, just the same that Pens fans should not claim that Crosby is an angel either. >>

Why can't you just admit that the league does not protect Crosby any more or less than any other player and a repeat offender like Downie not getting a suspension for an obvious cheap shot on the alledged golden boy is proof of that. Not that Cooke has anything to do with Downie...but Cooke got his. The league more than made up for not suspending him long enough (or at all) for prior incidents. Also, I don't think Pens fans claim Crosby is an angel...but he's not even close to a Cooke or Downie.

<< Fair if other players who made the same type of hit got the same treatment, I forget the player who got suspended 4 games for the knee on knee hit similar to Orpik, so explain why Orpik wouldn't get the same punishment? >>

For the same reason Downie wasn't? For the same reason OV wasn't suspended until his 4th or 5t slew foot? For the same reason Rupp wasn't for the knee on Staal? For the same reason PK Subban has not been suspended for God knows how many slew foots? Maybe the Orpik hit was not a blatant attempt to injure? Certainly arguable...he lunged forward to make a hit and missed. Stepan deeks hard left and their knees collide. Orpik was in a wide stance to make the hit. Same argument from Rangers fans why Rupp should not be suspended. See what I am getting at?

<< The reason why all you hear is how Malkin didn't get an instigator is the fact it was a rule in place that was cut and dry and Campbell overturned it without real explanation as to why he did. As for the covering the puck in the crease, ask the refs as to why they didn't call that. Heck, if you're going to go that route, explain why the refs made the phantom hooking call on Staal by Jeff Carter when the Pens were down by one in the series against the Flyers. Refs in the NHL as everyone knows, half the time can't get the calls right and there is two of them on the ice. >>

Again...bad calls the cost both teams. That's the second time your reply to a call that didn't go the Pens way was "Ask Campbell..." or "Ask the refs...". So bad call goes agains my team...ask the refs. Bad call goes against your team...it's bias/favoritism/league protecting. Scott Walker did the same as Malkin...not suspended. Not like Malkin was the only one. It's also well known that a lot less gets called in the playoffs and a lot more has to be done to warrant a long suspension or any suspension for that matter. Downey and Kunitz each got 1 game in last year's playoffs for shots that are 2+ at least if they happen in the regular season. Kunitz threw a blatant elbow to Gagne's head. Downie left his feet to deliver a head shot on Lovejoy. That's a repeat offender getting 1 game for a head shot. You don't hear me whining about it do you?