Bryzgalov how bad can he get?

[Digityman]

@ChiFlyfan

Bryz

[aziz]

well you're all "mr sunshine and puppies " today... thanks

good thing there aren't any bridges near by to jump from

well, if it helps, i think the flyers can win with bryzgalov. i don't think the deal actually kills them. it makes things tougher, not a good thing to essentially spot rivals several million dollars in cap space, but the flyers aren't doomed or anything.

it's a bad situation, holmgren did exactly the opposite of what he should have regarding goaltending, but it is what it is.

[DaGreatGazoo]

Didn't the new NBA CBA allow for 1 buyout(a year) perhaps, with NO cap implications? Not sure, because, well..I really don't give a sh!t about the NBA, but I thought I heard that somewhere.

But it would kick ass if the NHL did something similar.

[radoran]

imo, if bob saw consistent starts for a while this season, his statistics would be far better than they are now. to this point, he has had no chance to develop any kind of game to game rhthym, and his numbers reflect that. all of which is to say: i don't think putting the season's stats side by side really gives a good picture of the capabilities of the goaltenders. they've been asked to fill different roles, and bob has been handed the harder one (harder to role to shine in, anyway).

How about his career stats? Which are exactly the same?

How about last years, 52-start stats? 2.50, .915 - again, right in line with Bryzgalov's career stats.

The biggest things Bob has going for him is "potential" and "up side" - there is no actual "evidence" to suggest that working him more will result in significant improvement in play. I respect your belief that it is true but, to me the main benefit he has appears to be in "not being the guy who just signed the contract no one likes" and being the "we don't remember the bad goal from last night" guy?

Suppose they'd gone whole hog behind Bob this season, with, say, Leighton backing up? And Bob performed exactly as he has this season but with more starts? And the team was simply the third best record in the league, a point out of the Conference lead? But Bob had been chased in a game and looked a little shaky in another couple, while posting last year's 2.59/.915 (last year at this time, he'd been pulled in an 8-7 loss to TAM (4 first period goals) a0nd lost 5-1 to PIT giving up 4).

Would there still be people arguing that Bob was a disappointment and that Leighton should "get a shot" and would "play better if he played more"?

Yes.

In short, I see this discussion as little more than a continuation of the "why not play the backup?" trope for which Philly fans are famous.

I *like* both goalies. One might have a ridiculous contract. The other an expensive backup. But I like their play. 2.5 GAA and .915 SV% is borderline top 10 in the league among starters. A more stable defense and those numbers get better.

And a healthy Pronger.

And in Pronger's health and Bryzgalov's head have the Flyers put the next five years.

[aziz]

In short, I see this discussion as little more than a continuation of the "why not play the backup?" trope for which Philly fans are famous.

one, i'm a little annoyed to be dismissed out of hand like that. i don't consider my opinion on the topic to be "little more" than a symptom of the city's mindset towards the position. it may be that my opinion lines up with the stereotype in this case, but i believe this particular situation has more depth to it than the people who demanded wregget start over hextall.

two, bobrovsky's career numbers come from a single season, a season that was his trial by fire against NHL shooters over an extended campaign. his performance matched bryzgalov's career average, yes, but that average comes from 6 years in the league, including 4 years behind a bluecollar team whose coach preached a defense-first approach to the game. bryzgalov did not sniff anything over a .910 sv% until his 3rd season, including the year he played behind a stanley cup winning roster (.907).

to compare the two side by side statistically and announce a wash is to ignore all traces of context. bobrovsky did what he did in his first exposure to NHL competition, in his first time playing more than 35 games in a season, behind a team with frequent defensive lapses, with a coach who was as concerned with defensive responsibility as he was with proper grooming habits from scott hartnell. this season, bobrovsky has duplicated bryzgalov's statistical performance in half the icetime, appearing almost exclusively in a spot-starting role, with only 2 starts occuring in consecutive games (and in those 2 starts, allowing all of 3 goals on 56 shots).

if a guy with 60 starts under his belt is able to match the performance of a guy with 330 starts to his name, i feel it is justified to weigh the equation in favor of the kid. jeff skinner only barely managed to top mikko koivu's production last season (63 versus 62 points). do we then declare them equals? or does some context apply?

sure, bob could become steve mason ptII, absolutely. we have no way of knowing how he develops. if he develops. all signs are positive, however...and he has come out of the gate as strong as a guy with a $5.75mil contract. if that's his starting point, doesn't that generally mean his eventual effectiveness is likely somewhere north of that?

this is all academic, as the bryzgalov contract is there, and i'm just crying over spilled milk. the milk definitely spilled, though.

[Flyguys03]

Didn't the new NBA CBA allow for 1 buyout(a year) perhaps, with NO cap implications? Not sure, because, well..I really don't give a sh!t about the NBA, but I thought I heard that somewhere.

But it would kick ass if the NHL did something similar.

The NHL did with the last CBA. Unfortunately the timing isn't good for the flyers since it would be this summer. No way you can deepsix Bryz already. I would be happy to see a Pronger buyout though.Also highly unlikely though since he was just named Captain.

[926]

Radoran - Before Buff, Bryz' previous 10 games in net posted .920/2.2 helping to add 17 points in the standings. Since the Oct skid, he's lost one in regulation. That's earning keep.

[radoran]

one, i'm a little annoyed to be dismissed out of hand like that. i don't consider my opinion on the topic to be "little more" than a symptom of the city's mindset towards the position. it may be that my opinion lines up with the stereotype in this case, but i believe this particular situation has more depth to it than the people who demanded wregget start over hextall.

two, bobrovsky's career numbers come from a single season, a season that was his trial by fire against NHL shooters over an extended campaign. his performance matched bryzgalov's career average, yes, but that average comes from 6 years in the league, including 4 years behind a bluecollar team whose coach preached a defense-first approach to the game. bryzgalov did not sniff anything over a .910 sv% until his 3rd season, including the year he played behind a stanley cup winning roster (.907).

to compare the two side by side statistically and announce a wash is to ignore all traces of context. bobrovsky did what he did in his first exposure to NHL competition, in his first time playing more than 35 games in a season, behind a team with frequent defensive lapses, with a coach who was as concerned with defensive responsibility as he was with proper grooming habits from scott hartnell. this season, bobrovsky has duplicated bryzgalov's statistical performance in half the icetime, appearing almost exclusively in a spot-starting role, with only 2 starts occuring in consecutive games (and in those 2 starts, allowing all of 3 goals on 56 shots).

if a guy with 60 starts under his belt is able to match the performance of a guy with 330 starts to his name, i feel it is justified to weigh the equation in favor of the kid. jeff skinner only barely managed to top mikko koivu's production last season (63 versus 62 points). do we then declare them equals? or does some context apply?

sure, bob could become steve mason ptII, absolutely. we have no way of knowing how he develops. if he develops. all signs are positive, however...and he has come out of the gate as strong as a guy with a $5.75mil contract. if that's his starting point, doesn't that generally mean his eventual effectiveness is likely somewhere north of that?

this is all academic, as the bryzgalov contract is there, and i'm just crying over spilled milk. the milk definitely spilled, though.

Apologies. I didn't mean to belittle.

I do believe that we as a fanbase have been conditioned to prefer the "devil we don't know" over the "devil we know" - often to the detriment of both. And the Flyers as an organization hasn't helped it by running the goalie carousel faster than the coaching carousel.

I see the Bryzgalov signing as the franchise making a definitive end to the debate. They will sink or swim with Bryzgalov, barring injury. With Bobrovsky available as a capable backup for this and next seasons, why shake it up more? He's proven he can handle 50 starts and put up comparable stats to your #1. But unless Bryz either breaks a leg or gets vertigo, he's the guy.

Yes, he needs to step up his game - but he needs the same consistency and work that you feel - rightly - would benefit Bobrovsky in order to do so. He's not going to find his game riding the pine. Cory Schneider may be splitting time with Roberto Luongo in Vancouver in November, but come April Luongo's getting the call.

Marty Biron's posted a 1.94/.930 in New York - but he's not unseating Lundqvist. Harding's stood on his head in Minnesota at times this season, but the Wild are still committed to Backstrom for $6M for next. Enroth's 2.32/.920 isn't going to supplant Miller.

I just find the immediate topic of "how bad can Bryz get?" the day after a WIN smacks of Mike Schmidt's classic line: "Philadelphia, where you can experience the thrill of victory and the agony of reading about it the next day."

Your mileage may vary. I hold your opinion in high regard despite your prediction about Jagr & Nodl ;-)

[DaGreatGazoo]

would be happy to see a Pronger buyout though

That's who I had in mind actually..then take a run at a stud Dman in free agency.

[TedZep]

@radoran,

I think you read far more sarcasm into my post than I intended. If the Flyers had managed to hold on after catching and surpassing the Jets in that wild game, that would have been three games in a quarter season they came back from 3+ down to win, and that just doesn't happen often.

Regular season, they have the luxury of having a "soft" goalie between the pipes and will still most likely make the playoffs as a high seed. But that's no way to actually try to win the Cup once there.

Bobrovsky may have similar or slightly inferior numbers than Bryzgalov, but Bryz is letting in MANY more soft goals than Bobs and his contract is handcuffing the Flyers. I know you and I are nearly on the same side of this discussion.

As mediocre as Voukoun has been for the Caps, I think I would rather him backing up Bobrovksy for the year and invest the savings in a decent defenseman.

[aziz]

I do believe that we as a fanbase have been conditioned to prefer the "devil we don't know" over the "devil we know" - often to the detriment of both. And the Flyers as an organization hasn't helped it by running the goalie carousel faster than the coaching carousel.

true. except this one time i think they have a point.

Yes, he needs to step up his game - but he needs the same consistency and work that you feel - rightly - would benefit Bobrovsky in order to do so.

hey, i agree completely. like i said, it really is a spilled milk thing. the contract is there and it makes no sense whatsoever to take the boat in the different direction, the flyers need to do whatever it takes to get bryzgalov into peak form, because he is the guy. i'm just all because i really do believe bobrovsky is the better goalie now, and is going to be even better in the near future. the flyers are commited; i'm just crying because i think they commited to the wrong guy.

I hold your opinion in high regard despite your prediction about Jagr & Nodl ;-)

lol, damnit, i'm never going to live that down.

[radoran]

@radoran,

I think you read far more sarcasm into my post than I intended. If the Flyers had managed to hold on after catching and surpassing the Jets in that wild game, that would have been three games in a quarter season they came back from 3+ down to win, and that just doesn't happen often.

Regular season, they have the luxury of having a "soft" goalie between the pipes and will still most likely make the playoffs as a high seed. But that's no way to actually try to win the Cup once there.

Bobrovsky may have similar or slightly inferior numbers than Bryzgalov, but Bryz is letting in MANY more soft goals than Bobs and his contract is handcuffing the Flyers. I know you and I are nearly on the same side of this discussion.

As mediocre as Voukoun has been for the Caps, I think I would rather him backing up Bobrovksy for the year and invest the savings in a decent defenseman.

I would not have minded Vokoun at all - as a vet to "bridge" to a mature Bobrovsky, for example. The Flyers don't look for that. They're a quick fix team - they don't rebuild, they "retool."

Not my preferred way, but the way it is.

I don't think Bob has "inferior" stats to Bryz - I think they have basically the same stats both this season and over their careers. Bryz has five times as many games and is the more "proven" commodity. "Proven" is what the Flyers as an organization were looking for. "Potential" has only taken them so far.

Bryz' regular season #s don't bother me - it's how he handles the playoffs. I'm not going to truly evaluate this signing until we have that look (but it was a bad signing for too long and too much lol)

[Digityman]

Bryz is awesome!

So worth his contract.

(couldn't resist)

[Flyguys03]

He had a ton of great saves tonight. Good game by him.

[mojo1917]

good that's why we're paying him until 2030

[LegionOfDoom]

He'll be churning out the wins......keepem coming....keepem coming!

[flyercanuck]

Figures, we had a game at 7:30 last night, so I didn't get to see any of Bryzgalovs fine effort. And until I actually see it, he still sucks! ; )

[aziz]

yup, he did look sharp last night

[doom88]

Bryz is awesome!

So worth his contract.

(couldn't resist)

LOL it isn't every day you see a mod flame his own forum.