Trade Confirmed JVR traded for Luke Schenn

[aziz]

@mojo1917

it does look like it

[Flyingswede]

I think JVR have potential to be a big strong power forward scoring 40 goals/season. But Schenn have also potential to be a top defenseman. Defensemen often needs more time to be really good. So in a couple of years we might have a really solid defenseman in Schenn. JVR have been to incosistent and unrealible. Right now it seems like the leafs won that trade, I was hoping for a better player than Schenn straight up for JVR. But, at the same time, we might overrated JVR just becouse he was a 2nd draft pick. How good has he been? not near 2nd draft pick if you look down the range of 2nd draft picks. I dont think his value on the market is that high really. And good defensemen is always more expensive than forwards, becouse they are few. Hopefully Schenn gets a good start here.

[Phillygrump]

So who is out there as an UFA that is a right handed shot? Schenn is, but I would imagine we need another one. I can't imagine a big name defenseman coming to Philly. The only guy I can think of is Schultz. But how much of a chance of that guy choosing Philly is there?

Any options for the Flyers out there?

[RonJeremy]

Ok noodl,I had read somewhere that Garrison was a righty,so you got me there. He is a lefty. As far as blocked shots ,stats, etc, Carle had 30 or so more blocked shots, but Garrison had more than double Carle in hits. Carle had 4 goals , Garrison around 17 . Stats wise , they are close somehwere around 35 points to 38 points . So would you rather have a 6ft 2 ,220 lb guy that hits and has a huge shot, or a barely 6ft 190 lb softie like Carle, who has the majority of his shots dribble off his stick or get blocked. So, if you really look at it, we dont lose anything by replacing Carle with Garrison,in fact we gain a much needed point shot, a bigger more physical player and we probably save some money too. At this point don't have any dman with a decent point shot or any dman who scores more than 7 goals. So what is your solution to that?

[RonJeremy]

@ phillygrump, the highly touted Justin Schultz is a righty.i read on CSN that Holmgren is definitely going after him.so I guess Holmgren is as bad a gm as Ron Jeremy,since I was ridiculed for suggesting we don't need Carle since we have Scheen and if we land Garrison or Schultz.

[aziz]

@RonJeremy

when a guy's goal total triples in one season and his point total almost doubles.... how about about the guy have more than 18 points at least twice before we get too positive that he is suddenly a monster.

[RonJeremy]

You are failing to address my main points, Garrison has a huge shot Carle has no shot, even if garrison drops down to 4 goals,wouldn't it be great to have a dman who can actually put a hard accurate shot on net, unlike any dmen we have now. if we had a threat from the point other teams would have to cover the point more on PP instead of collapsing down low on our forwards with no fear that limp c0ck Carle would beat them with his blistering shot or Coburn would hit the glass with every shot,we'd finally have blueline threat

[jammer2]

@RonJeremy Ron, I see what you are saying...but reasistically, you can't give a guy 4 mill for 4 years (betcha he asks for just that amount) based on one year of production. This guy is almost 30, he's not a kid. I know his shot is great, but it's not 4 mill great.

[RonJeremy]

Jammer, I guess we will find out soon enough, CSN says Homer is going for Schultz,so maybe he can provide us witha point shot, I think Homer is still gonna go for another dman.Maybe the rights to Schultz along with Ryan in a trade with Ducks. maybe Suter who knows.

[jammer2]

Who knows, never saw Schultz shoot, but he would have to be an upgrade. Only Kimo, Mez and Carle can get the puck on net with any velocity....we fail miserably in that dept. It's actually embarassing. This is a pretty fundamental part of hockey, get the puck on net, get rebounds....score. Sad it's gotten as bad as it is.

[doom88]

The defenseman's primary job is to play defense. I like Carle's positioning, durability, and proven NHL legitimacy at the same age. I don't care if defenseman can't shoot like a cannon - you can put a forward at the point on the PP if necessary.

Garrison has a whopping 190 games played over four seasons (one of which was one game), in the southleast division. So he caught lightning in a bottle and scored 16 goals (33 points), big whoop. That's not a guy you throw money at, nor replace a cornerstone defenseman (albeit not elite) with.

Carle by contrast has 471 games played over eight seasons, the last three in the Atlantic (hardest in the NHL), with no less than 35 points in those last three seasons. He also has 84 games played in the playoffs (45 with Philly).

So Carle isn't Chara, oh well. That doesn't mean he has zero value, despite what haters want to see. In plain English, Matt Carle is way better than a college kid and an unproven, (currently) flash in the pan.

[Polaris922]

Carle is better than Garrison. Garrison doesn't skate as well or have the offensive vision Carle possesses. Said it before and I'll say it again, Carle is your ONLY d-man I worry about carrying the puck. Garrison plays a lot more games against weak southeast opponents, and from what I read gets top power play time fairly often. If you guys don't want Carle, I hope we get him. I know! We'll trade you Paul Martin!!

[Vanflyer]

I think you got the better end of this deal. I'm surprised you got Schenn for just JVR.

Howdy Polaris-

It is one enigma / perceived underperformer for another. Same draft class (JVR #2 / Schenn #5). What we did get a young, stay at home defencemen that is only 22 years old (1/2 year younger than JVR). He LOVES to hit. Has developed in juniors and seldom is injured.

The Schenn / JVR trade has been on the block for a long time (more than a year). I personally have always been opposed to it- mostly because Schenn seems like Dan McGillis v.2 to me. Good player, big body, can skate, but always overplays. That said, he is ONLY 22 and has played in 310 nhl games.

Allot of people on this board still cry over Sbisa going to Anaheim in the Pronger trade and want him back. Sbisa is a good player, just as Schenn is. But this team does not need another light speedster that has some angst to his game. We need a young stay at home guy that is willing to battle.

I think Burkes comments were for once spot on (though exaggerated slightly). He said something to the effect that JVR-despite his size was not a draft horse that would play the ground and pound game. He is a thoroughbred. He is right and wrong. JVR can skate like the wind, has soft hands and a booming slapper. Yet, thus far, the only time he has been effective with all those skills is when he does get mad / or playoffs and plays the ground and pound game (ie., drive to the net, work the corners, win the battles).

The Flyer forums say "good luck to JVR under Carlyle", but they are selling Lavy very short and in fact one of the reasons that JVR may be out of town is because of Lavy's perspective. That is not a rumor mill comment, just that Lavy rides the players as hard as anyone in the league and to suggest that JVR is going to coaching pergatory is a joke.

I truthfully wish JVR the best of luck. I think he has bad luck year and that again Homer made a move he had to make. He had to get defense for now. Its not a Weber or Suter or anywhere close. But it is a 22y/o kid that has led his team in hitting his entire career. He will play a 2nd or 3rd fiddle here as Grossman and Meszarous are ahead of him on the "stay at home category". That is good.

I also like what Brayden had to say in how they push each other- and they are best friends. Make no mistake, Luke Schenn will become the INSTANT whipping boy around town (after breezy of course) if he does not play half way decent. JVR is always linked with the worse season in Flyers history and now Luke Schenn is as well.

The flip side is that if JVR can be healthy, I still believe that he can be a significant player for Toronto. By significant, I mean 25-25. That is what his contract represented and is on par with what have paid Hartnell. It kind of adds in the whole "home boy thing". Meaning JVR- while a NY fan, lives very close to Philly. Him going to Toronto will be good. Get away from family and all the friends and just go play hockey.

For Luke, he will only get a slight reprieve if he does perform. Yet, I don't think he will be attached to the lofty expectations that JVR was.

For me personally, I can not wait until every Carolina / Philly game this year to start my drinking game!! :-P

[Polaris922]

Well thought out and posted. I like JVR myself. Think he has great potential IF he gets motivated. I think Toronto misused Schenn, and I'm afraid his addition to your Club will make life a lot harder for mine than JVR ever did or would. In an age where quality young D is tough to find, you boys scored one with great potential. Truthfully I would have wanted more for him if I were Burke, and I sincerely think you guys got the better of this trade by a fair margin.

[Vanflyer]

Also true. No JVR, not likely to resign Jagr...who goes up? Voracek? Convert Schenn to a wing? Bobby Ryan lol.

Doom- I expect better from you. While I think Jagr should be re-signed (I am the minority), Voracek will become the heir (though I am not sold on that combination). For me personally, I go after Shane Doan for a 3 year 12m contract to ride out his career. He plays all game situations, tough as nails, 35 y/o, and plays 19+ minutes a night. He was born to be a Flyer and it would be nice to see him come home to nest.

Secondly, Schenn already split his time between center and wing (left).

Here is how I see it (sans a FA RW signing):

Hartnell-Giroux-Voracek

Schenn-Couturier-Briere

Wellwood-Talbot-Simmonds

Zolniercyk-Read-xxxx?

I am just not sure that Voracek is the right skill set to go with Giroux. Doan however is and we shuffle the deck chairs again.

[RonJeremy]

@doom88. We did put a forward at the point, which was Voracek, his playmaking was good, but he doesn't have much of a point shot either.

[flyerrod]

Zolniercyk-Read-xxxx?

xxxx=Sestito

[flyerrod]

Doom- I expect better from you. While I think Jagr should be re-signed (I am the minority), Voracek will become the heir (though I am not sold on that combination). For me personally, I go after Shane Doan for a 3 year 12m contract to ride out his career. He plays all game situations, tough as nails, 35 y/o, and plays 19+ minutes a night. He was born to be a Flyer and it would be nice to see him come home to nest.

Secondly, Schenn already split his time between center and wing (left).

Here is how I see it (sans a FA RW signing):

Hartnell-Giroux-Voracek

Schenn-Couturier-Briere

Wellwood-Talbot-Simmonds

Zolniercyk-Read-xxxx?

I am just not sure that Voracek is the right skill set to go with Giroux. Doan however is and we shuffle the deck chairs again.

I think those lines work pretty good if you balance the TOI accordingly. I don't know that Simmonds belongs on the 3rd line, I might flip him and Vorachek. I like the idea of having someone with Roo that can make people pay for taking liberties as well as score.Vorachek with Wellwood and Talbot, they are as much of a scoring threat as any of the top 3 lines. With the 4th line, you still have a lot of potential for scoring but you no longer have a grind line. As long as all of the lines can maintain some modicum of defense, they should be a very exciting team to watch.

[Vanflyer]

xxxx=Sestito

I had a tough enough time putting Read down there (thus, the Flyers are not as weak on forwards as we want to say), but to put Sestito on that right side? Why?? Situational games sure, on a regular basis, I need to be convinced on what he brings.

[flyerrod]

Sestito on that right side? Why??

Because he has way less issues with the referees than Rinaldo and is a decent finisher for a brawler. I like Rinaldo and his game but he will have the same issues that Downie had when he was here....Reputation calls (some earned, most not).

[jkearse123]

Doom- I expect better from you. While I think Jagr should be re-signed (I am the minority), Voracek will become the heir (though I am not sold on that combination). For me personally, I go after Shane Doan for a 3 year 12m contract to ride out his career. He plays all game situations, tough as nails, 35 y/o, and plays 19+ minutes a night. He was born to be a Flyer and it would be nice to see him come home to nest.

Secondly, Schenn already split his time between center and wing (left).

Here is how I see it (sans a FA RW signing):

Hartnell-Giroux-Voracek

Schenn-Couturier-Briere

Wellwood-Talbot-Simmonds

Zolniercyk-Read-xxxx?

I am just not sure that Voracek is the right skill set to go with Giroux. Doan however is and we shuffle the deck chairs again.

I'm not feeling those lines

Hartnell-G-(Jagr or free agent signing)

Simmonds-Briere-Voracek

Read-Couturier-Schenn

Wellwood-Talbot-Sestito

If they don't sign anyone, I think they'd move Schenn up to line 1, Sestito to line 3 and Rinaldo to line 4, IMO. I don't see Lavy pulling Briere out of the C spot yet and also think Couts and Read are excellent together.

[Vanflyer]

I think those lines work pretty good if you balance the TOI accordingly. I don't know that Simmonds belongs on the 3rd line, I might flip him and Vorachek. I like the idea of having someone with Roo that can make people pay for taking liberties as well as score.Vorachek with Wellwood and Talbot, they are as much of a scoring threat as any of the top 3 lines. W

Other than Hartnell-Roo, You can pretty much shuffle away. Your points are good- especially with the qualifier regarding the minutes. I have put on a couple of posts that I role the top three for equal EV minutes. What is tough for me is the forth line. How can I put Read down there for scraps when he was a 25ish goal scorer in the league BEFORE hitting the wall in the last quarter of the season?

I can't put him with Roo as I believe Roo needs some size on his wings to help him (your point about Simmonds- even though he is a stick and Vorachek is 20 lbs heavier). The problem (a nice problem) is what to do with Read. You are right about Sestito. I have no problem plugging him into the Shelley 4th line slot (though I think he is a bit reckless at times).

The fact that we are even having a dialogue on trying to find ice time for better forward players says enough. People will look at what I proposed and scoff a bit (and rightfully so). I DO believe you have to put Couturier on the second line THIS year. We can argue the merits of whether Schenn should be there or third line, but style wise, I like the tandem of Schenn-Couturier regardless of the right. I think they both compliment each other in intangible ways. Truthfully, if you put Simmonds on the top line (which I am not sold on), and Voracek on the second line, I think that second line becomes immediately as lethal as the top - AND more defensively responsible.

[Vanflyer]

I'm not feeling those lines

Hartnell-G-(Jagr or free agent signing)

Simmonds-Briere-Voracek

Read-Couturier-Schenn

Wellwood-Talbot-Sestito

If they don't sign anyone, I think they'd move Schenn up to line 1, Sestito to line 3 and Rinaldo to line 4, IMO. I don't see Lavy pulling Briere out of the C spot yet and also think Couts and Read are excellent together.

Well, I am not feeling your lines either bro. I don't mind one guy playing off wing, but to list THREE guys playing off wing?? Really? Also, the day that Sestito sniffs third line ice minutes with the current make-up of this team on a regular / full time basis will be the day I cut off my right nut. He is what he is and he is not what he is not. What he is not is a third line winger on the Philadelphia Flyers.

[jkearse123]

As far as wings go, I was basing it off of the depth chart here

http://rotoworld.com/teams/clubhouse/nhl/phi/philadelphia-flyers

I can't see the Flyers moving Danny B to wing, which creates a logjam.

Maybe you do

Hartnell-G-Simmonds

Wellwood-Briere-Voracek

Read-Couts-Schenn

Harry Z-Talbot-Sestito

[Vanflyer]

Because he has way less issues with the referees than Rinaldo and is a decent finisher for a brawler. I like Rinaldo and his game but he will have the same issues that Downie had when he was here....Reputation calls (some earned, most not).

I get it, but let us be honest. Neither Rinaldo or Sestito could wear Downies jock when it comes to hockey skill. Both Rinaldo & Sestito are complete loose cannons with only a tad bid of hockey skill (one can skate better than the other and the other that can't skate has lbs on the one that can). Downie is a loose cannon with quite a bit of hockey skill.

To even suggest either would have a regular 3rd line position is a farce.

Sestito:

1) 27 NHL games / 147 pims

2) 211 AHL games / 745 pims

Rinaldo:

1) 73 NHL games / 292 pims

2) 60 AHL games / 331 pims

I can hear the WTF's echoing around the arena everytime either skate to the box- when either are on the third line taking another unecessary penalty. Both players have a time, place and role. I love all three when applied appropriately. A regular third line shift is not appropriately applicable to either player.