Signed Contract Jagr signs with Stars

[radoran]

This one is kind of laughable to me. I am not sure how you can think that your leading TOI player is not "necessary" to the team. While not a pronger, weber or even Suter, he is still an essential cog at 23 minutes a night. I mean are the between the lines that Grossman / Bouron / Gus will chew up those minutes?

I'm looking at it from how I imagine Homer is looking at the situation. I think Homer felt that the Schenn deal and Grossmann extension gives him players to eat up some of those minutes.Is he right? Like you, I doubt it, but he *could* be. If MAB/Gus steps up as a puck mover that could help, too.

Again, I would have signed Jagr and Carle at $4M and $4.75M. I would have had a deal in place - if they would have taken it - rather than being Don Quixote going up against Parise and Suter windmills. To act as if I wanted nothing to do with Carle or Jagr is to fundamentally misrepresent my position.

The difference between what I "would have done" and what "was" is $1.75M so in a pinch I might even have gone to "what they got" and extended Voracek and gone with that. Done.

Nevertheless, I don't feel that either will be "missed" as much as you and others beleve. There will be an effect and a learning curve that, again, I would have preferred to avoid through keeping the players we had.

That's not what happened. I still like the team. Still think it can compete. Still think it has a chance to win.

And if comparing Homer and the Flyer braintrust to "Columbus with money" isn't enough to show how much contempt I have for them, I don't know what will.

[Vanflyer]

Which just goes back to my Mark Recchi comparison - future HOFer, then-3-time-Cup-winner, very comparable stats, very comparable role, 1/3 of the salary.

Interesting point on the Recchi thing. I think with Recchi is he did not care what his role was- as long as he was on a contender. With Jagr, he does care what his role is and it is a top dog role he wants- contender too, but only if he is top dog.

I am not apologizing for him- but I can easily see his side of things as well. When he first signed- many here were saying he returned to his predecessing ways of being a ******. I don't see it that way. I just don't think he has the humility that Recchi had in his waning years. That doesn't make him a ****** in my book.

[radoran]

Interesting point on the Recchi thing. I think with Recchi is he did not care what his role was- as long as he was on a contender. With Jagr, he does care what his role is and it is a top dog role he wants- contender too, but only if he is top dog.

I am not apologizing for him- but I can easily see his side of things as well. When he first signed- many here were saying he returned to his predecessing ways of being a ******. I don't see it that way. I just don't think he has the humility that Recchi had in his waning years. That doesn't make him a ****** in my book.

We both see both sides of this. We just have different viewpoints.

I don't begrudge him the money, but I do think it's more important than "winning".

There's no way the Flyers were going to sign him and put him on 3/4th line duty. None.

[Vanflyer]

Again, I would have signed Jagr and Carle at $4M and $4.75M. I would have had a deal in place - if they would have taken it - rather than being Don Quixote going up against Parise and Suter windmills. To act as if I wanted nothing to do with Carle or Jagr is to fundamentally misrepresent my position.

Me too.

Nevertheless, I don't feel that either will be "missed" as much as you and others beleve. There will be an effect and a learning curve that, again, I would have preferred to avoid through keeping the players we had.

I am not saying chicken little here. On the d side, perhaps the MAB / Gus of the world can overcome the deficit left by Carle. I am okay with that as I am always of the "let the kids play" mentality. Both players- particularly MAB, got a ton of experience last year. There is the Schenn factor too. While not a puck mover per se, he is a guy that can shoulder allot of minutes if need be.

It is more the wing spot with G than anything. If you asked me who I would rather have; Doan or Jagr on G's wing, I would take Doan hands down everytime. But it is becoming increasingly evident that is a pipe dream. G needs size on his wings to give him time and space (and help his durability). Voracek can move up there, but he overlaps allot with G on the set-up side of things (Jakub ALWAYS thinks pass first).

After all the shakeup last summer, I am fine with status quo. This team will still be allot of fun to watch. I put on another post that if Read + a #1 and two #2's would get Nash, I would do it. Our RW would be settled then. I think this will be another "development" year. The guys greatly exceeded expectations last year. If they can replicate that, I will be very happy.

We still have some RFA's to sign, but for the first time in a long time, we have money- and next summer we will have even more money. Corey Perry is available next summer (assumming he does not re-sign / traded prior) and I would love to see him in O&B on G's wing.

I still don't like our goalie situation. But if we can get a mix between the March Bryz and the October - November Bryz, I will be happy.

At the end of the day, I don't see this team as a SC contender next year. The year after, most definitely (because 2-3 holes will be filled with some pretty good players).

[Vanflyer]

We both see both sides of this. We just have different viewpoints.

Its all good bro. We are just having hockey discussion. I am as stupid as they come and know less than nothing.

[JackStraw]

Here's my take on Jagr- I don't think it was primarily about the money or the "winning" (meaning a Stanley Cup). The guy has done everything- Stanley Cup, World Championship, Olympic Gold Medal, Hart Trophy, Art Ross Trophy, etc... he doesn't need to be doing this at his age. But one thing that he doesn't have is the knowledge that he can still compete against the best players in the world in a meaningful way. To put it another way, at this point I think it's the personal challenge that matters most to him. Can he still be a factor in the NHL? And that doesn't mean playing a supporting role somewhere, it means doing what he did last year. Defying expectations and really mattering. Kind of like the swimmer Dara Torres, 45 years old and still trying to make an Olympic team (and not missing by much). Getting older kind of sucks, and some people try to put it off as long as possible.

[Podein25]

@JackStraw

I think you might be right.

Of course, some of the stuff I think is crazy, so grain of salt.

[radoran]

Its all good bro. We are just having hockey discussion.

Amen.

[radoran]

Here's my take on Jagr- I don't think it was primarily about the money or the "winning" (meaning a Stanley Cup). The guy has done everything- Stanley Cup, World Championship, Olympic Gold Medal, Hart Trophy, Art Ross Trophy, etc... he doesn't need to be doing this at his age. But one thing that he doesn't have is the knowledge that he can still compete against the best players in the world in a meaningful way. To put it another way, at this point I think it's the personal challenge that matters most to him. Can he still be a factor in the NHL? And that doesn't mean playing a supporting role somewhere, it means doing what he did last year. Defying expectations and really mattering. Kind of like the swimmer Dara Torres, 45 years old and still trying to make an Olympic team (and not missing by much). Getting older kind of sucks, and some people try to put it off as long as possible.

I can agree 110% to that.

But, again, the Flyers weren't going to sign him and then have him be a 3/4th liner playing garbage time.

Maybe the shakeup of lines Lavy did against New Jersey hit him more than he is letting on? I don't know. Pure speculation.

Seems odd to have made the whole question July 3 vs. July 5 especially when it was pretty evident, IMO, that neither Parise nor Suter were coming here.

As for getting old, Jamie Benn's a nice player, but he's not Claude Giroux. What happens if, in your quest to show that you've still "got it", you don't?

[Vanflyer]

Seems odd to have made the whole question July 3 vs. July 5 especially when it was pretty evident, IMO, that neither Parise nor Suter were coming here.

This is what bothers me. I stated on a nother thread (maybe even this one) that if neither player responded within 24 hours to accept the offers made by the Flyers, I would pull the offers off the table and go to plan B. If I am a GM, I want players that WANT to come play and not have to "think about it".

I mean WTF is there to think about? As a player, you know all season long you are going to be a UFA. If you can' spend 10 minutes a day during that year to think- "here is my prioritization", then...I don't know- you are an idiot and don't deserve to be a muli-millionaire. Parise and Suter most definitely colluded. Its a free world and good on them. They are both d i c k s in my book.

[JackStraw]

@JackStraw

I think you might be right.

Of course, some of the stuff I think is crazy, so grain of salt.

You know how I worry when you agree with me.

[JackStraw]

I can agree 110% to that.

But, again, the Flyers weren't going to sign him and then have him be a 3/4th liner playing garbage time.

Maybe the shakeup of lines Lavy did against New Jersey hit him more than he is letting on? I don't know. Pure speculation.

Seems odd to have made the whole question July 3 vs. July 5 especially when it was pretty evident, IMO, that neither Parise nor Suter were coming here.

As for getting old, Jamie Benn's a nice player, but he's not Claude Giroux. What happens if, in your quest to show that you've still "got it", you don't?

You go play golf. Or you play for the Leafs... wait, same thing.

[flyerrod]

Its all good bro. We are just having hockey discussion. I am as stupid as they come and know less than nothing.

Well at least you finally admitted it.................... :o

Now you are just stock piling tokens for posts.......

***This post was an attempt at humor and not meant to be angry******

Cheers

[Vanflyer]

Now you are just stock piling tokens for posts.......

I am working hard on getting that shiny new um....whatever it is you get with Hockey Tokens!

[flyerrod]

I am working hard on getting that shiny new um....whatever it is you get with Hockey Tokens!

A WAWA Hoagie if I remember correctly......keep up the good work.

[Vanflyer]

A WAWA Hoagie if I remember correctly......keep up the good work.

I really like WAWA hoagies!!! Can it be mailed to me??

[Podein25]

You know how I worry when you agree with me.

Precisely why I try to keep it to a minimum.

[radoran]

***This post was an attempt at humor and not meant to be angry******

Cheers

The beautiful thing is that despite disagreement, it's never gotten angry.

Good stuff, folks!

[Vanflyer]

The beautiful thing is that despite disagreement, it's never gotten angry.

Good stuff, folks!

Now if only Kuato and TheMaker would sign up here, we could have some FUN!!

[radoran]

Now if only Kuato and TheMaker would sign up here, we could have some FUN!!

a source is a source of course of course and only some can text with a source of course...

[Vanflyer]

a source is a source of course of course and only some can text with a source of course...

Clever and true at the same time!!

I wonder how the golf courses are in St Louis!

[Bakanekimiwa]

Doan could prefer the actual Datsyuk to Giroux, and no Bryz.

i just have a hard time thinking doan would sign with a western conference team should he leave phoenix. he just seems like the type of guy that would want a fresh start in the east, and especially, to not play his former team.

[Polaris922]

I wouldn't say it was about the money. It's just about Jagr. With him it always will be. He's better at it as he's gotten older, more graceful anyway. But if loyalty or wanting to win factored in, he coukd've easily waited a couple days for the Parise decision then talked to Holmgren. Doan's doing it.... And Jagr may be old but plenty of teams would sign him I think if Parise or Suter signed and the Flyers no longer had the cap space.

[radoran]

I wouldn't say it was about the money. It's just about Jagr. With him it always will be. He's better at it as he's gotten older, more graceful anyway. But if loyalty or wanting to win factored in, he coukd've easily waited a couple days for the Parise decision then talked to Holmgren. Doan's doing it.... And Jagr may be old but plenty of teams would sign him I think if Parise or Suter signed and the Flyers no longer had the cap space.

Right, so if "loyalty" and "wanting to win" doesn't factor in "about Jagr" - what does?

Could it be the money? Or, at the very least, the validation Jagr receives from being highly compensated?

[Polaris922]

Right, so if "loyalty" and "wanting to win" doesn't factor in "about Jagr" - what does?

Could it be the money? Or, at the very least, the validation Jagr receives from being highly compensated?

Maybe like some have said he needs to be a star on the top line or at least thought of that way. Even if it's not money it's his ego that needs stroking... Always has been.

Edited July 9, 2012 by Polaris922