Time for Bob as # 1

[terp]

@Vincent05

One never knows how decisions will turn out but it sure sounded like he was in a really fed up mood when he pulled this one. Never a good frame of mind when you are investing $51MM. Also, I've not seen any owner be successful meddling in player personnel issues. Snider should stay out of it, especially when he's really pissed off.

[Vincent05]

@terp

I agree he needs to stay out of the player personnel decision. Another example is Jerry Jones. It was embarrassing with the goalie carousel we had in last year's playoff and he just wanted it to end, I would like to say if that had not happened we wouldn't be where we are today.

[aziz]

"Everyone's" been screaming for a big time goal tender for 20+ years and then they go ahead and get one and everyone is upset...

no, they didn't. they got the most expensive guy they could find and pretended it was that easy. goalies come and go, performances ebb and flow year to year. good this year, crappy next. it's the way of the position. it was just a couple years ago that the world thought js giguerre was one of the top few goalies on the planet. remember when kiprusoff was a stud? or when khabibulin won a cup? dan ellis had the best sv% in the league 4 years ago.

and none of that natural waxing and waning of ability take into account teams who are built in a way that matches and masks a particular goalie's weaknesses.

only a person who seriously isn't paying attention thinks you can look at stats for a couple seasons and decide you can predict what a guy will be like next year. much less 8 years after that. snider stepped WAY out of his depth and did real damage to the team.

[idahophilly]

Ok... The sky is falling. Hit the panic button. Homer has utterly destroyed the team. I'm close to some of those thoughts but not just yet. And I GAURENTEE you if they had done nothing the venom would still be flying. And had we got Varlarmov (sp) and he stumbled most would be saying we should have gotten Bryz. The ONLY issue I have right now is the length of the contract. Streaky play? No kidding. Easy to see. But it was thought it could be the product of the crappy team he was playing on. But we have 2/3rds of a season (that almost everyone knew that it was going to weird/streaky anyway) to figure just how much, if any , damage Homer has done...

The real problem were the expectations of the season and with all the rookies and massive amount of injuries: this team has over achieved. Fun to watch but how long can it go on? I sure hope it does though...

Besides, if he sucks as bad as you are saying then he will wind up bought out because of the new CBA rules that will no doubt be implemented or sent to the AHL or traded as a package deal to a team that has to get to the cap floor this summer.

I guess my overall feeling is they were dahmed if the did, dahmed if they didn't and this is the way it is. Smart or stupid, the team has to find a way to make it work. I'm not spending the whole year bitc--hing about last summers moves.

[aziz]

And I GAURENTEE you if they had done nothing the venom would still be flying. And had we got Varlarmov (sp) and he stumbled most would be saying we should have gotten Bryz.

so ******* what? the reality is the flyers are now paying a mediocre goaltender elite money for 8 seasons after this. that's the entire freaking problem: people (and team management) too concerned about what people will say rather than what would make the best team. and unlike all the other PR-impact deals over the years, this one is in an either-or position, where he either lives up to the hype or he just wastes space. can't move him down to the 2nd line when he doesn't cut it as the #1 center. this one will be a problem that can't be shuffled around, it will be right in all of our faces until 2020.

Besides, if he sucks as bad as you are saying then he will wind up bought out because of the new CBA rules

what are these new rules that will not have the flyers taking a cap hit for the next 16 years?? do you have some information, or did you just kinda dribble a little hopefull feel good onto your keyboard?

or sent to the AHL

? have you not heard? no movement clause? seriously, are you just now learning about it?

or traded as a package deal to a team that has to get to the cap floor this summer

again, no movement. this one, at least, is possible because bryzgalov *might* approve a trade at some point...but why would he choose to go to a team trying to cheat their way to the cap floor? he'd only approve a trade to a decent team, and no decent team is going to agree to take on a movement restricted middle of the road goalie making $5.66mil/yr.

I guess my overall feeling is they were dahmed if the did, dahmed if they didn't and this is the way it is.

only if the grumblings of uninformed fans are of critical importance to the team's ability to win. if those are of secondary importance, then the only way to damn the team was to overcommit to a meh goalie for just under a decade at a salary that would make most allstars jealous. poor tim thomas only wishes he made the money bryzgalov is making right now. hell, all goalies in the entire world are jealous, because bryzgalov's pay checks are bigger than all of them. all but one PLAYER, in fact. do you realize the only player in the NHL making more than bryzgalov is brad richards? the ONLY one. ovechkin is making less. crosby is making less. malkin, chara, thornton, stamkos, all their paychecks are smaller than mr universe. think about that, and tell me if the flyers were damned if they did, damned if they didn't, and it's all the same thing.

[idahophilly]

Wow, really upset are you???

OK,

You have zero proof the move was made for PR reasons. Homer called me and I told him the 8 year deal was bad! Opps, that's right, he didn't call me nor do I suspect he called you nor has there been a single statement that they got Bryz for PR reasons. The closest that ever came was when Snider said he was tired of the goalie situation and that it wouldn't happen again. Since it's HIS frickin money HE was probably tired of it. And since we don't have a time machine we don't know for sure that it will/won't happen again. So buckle up for the ride or get off.

Next, I'm not worried about a NMC. You can EASILY make the player so uncomfortable that they will waive it (or be bought out IF the new CBA goes the way most suspect).

Next, It's not a 16 year deal! Or are you just learning about these things?

Next, can you even remotly tell me how you know what Bryz would except or what he's thinkg? There are stars playing on cra=p-py teams.

Finally, IT ISN"T your check so stop acting like it! I bleed O&B so don't lecture me on being an uninformed fan or any of many others (you have no idea of anyone elses hockey knowledge). And I doubt the fans grumblings decided this for them (I base that on the fact that it hasn't for like 30 years so why start now - Snider himself had had enough). I highly doubt you could do better. And, as a note, Homer did screw up with the lenght/money and NMC. And so has everyone of the 29 other teams. Every team screws up something and most 2-3 things. Again, no time machine hence no gaurentees. I live in the real world and deal with the consequences. IT HAPPENED. Deal with it. But don't go telling people who disagree with you that they are uninformed and such...

[mojo1917]

@idahophilly

the terms of a buyout (presently) would cause a percentage of the annual salary (like 1/2 or 2/3s... it's a lot ) to count against the cap for double the years left, so to buy out Ilya would be a 16 year ordeal.

it would be best for all if Ilya would start stopping the pucks he's supposed to and keep it up for a couple of 5-6 years.

[JackStraw]

again, no movement. this one, at least, is possible because bryzgalov *might* approve a trade at some point...but why would he choose to go to a team trying to cheat their way to the cap floor? he'd only approve a trade to a decent team, and no decent team is going to agree to take on a movement restricted middle of the road goalie making $5.66mil/yr.

And if the did, you can be sure they will extract a pound of flesh and then some from the Flyers. Remember the Upshall trade? That will look like peanuts compared to what the Flyers would have to throw in to dump Bryzgalov's salary.

Honestly, the best hope at this point is that Bryz will buy a nice new GPS and really find his way out of the woods. None of the other options are particularly appealing.

[idahophilly]

And if the did, you can be sure they will extract a pound of flesh and then some from the Flyers. Remember the Upshall trade? That will look like peanuts compared to what the Flyers would have to throw in to dump Bryzgalov's salary.

Honestly, the best hope at this point is that Bryz will buy a nice new GPS and really find his way out of the woods. None of the other options are particularly appealing.

Oh I agree, I was just saying IF we need a way out there are ways. I think long haul he will be fine. Better than Leighton!!! And with Bob as a VERY reliable backup I'd say we are in reasonbly good shape. If Bryz has a complete meltdown (which he won't long term) we still have Bob. Better than a Boucher/Leighton tandem.

It's really a simple question? Do you want a Boosh/Lighton/Bob/and what, 1 or 2 others as I recall in a sick 5 way in goal or are you better off with Bryz/Bob?

[flyercanuck]

And if the did, you can be sure they will extract a pound of flesh and then some from the Flyers. Remember the Upshall trade? That will look like peanuts compared to what the Flyers would have to throw in to dump Bryzgalov's salary.

Honestly, the best hope at this point is that Bryz will buy a nice new GPS and really find his way out of the woods. None of the other options are particularly appealing.

Snider could give him a nice new Porsche Turbo (sorry)

[aziz]

You have zero proof the move was made for PR reasons.

well, it is either that or he is complete moron who makes $51mil decisions without bothering to look at the thing he's spending money on. anyone who watched more than bryzgalov's stats would know about his mobility, rebound and general focus problems. so, you tell me.

So buckle up for the ride or get off.

ummmmmmmm, bite me.

Next, I'm not worried about a NMC. You can EASILY make the player so uncomfortable that they will waive it

yeah? tell me the last time a guy with a full NMC waived it entirely. i've seen some give a short list of acceptable teams to their GM, and i've seen some accept a trade that has already been negotiated, but i've never seen one agree to be sent to the AHL, or be traded to the islanders.

Next, It's not a 16 year deal! Or are you just learning about these things?

psst, buyouts hit the cap for twice the remaining years on the deal. if he is bought out next summer, it'll be an 16 year cap hit.

or be bought out IF the new CBA goes the way most suspect

and what way is that, pray?

Finally, IT ISN"T your check so stop acting like it!

no, but it is my team with $5.66mil cap hit on a $2mil goalie.

I highly doubt you could do better.

well, i wouldn't have done that deal. seems to me that means i win.

But don't go telling people who disagree with you that they are uninformed and such...

hey, i'm just telling it like it obviously is. anyone who thought bryzgalov was a top-5 goalie had no idea what they were talking about, and anyone who thought paying him $5.66mil for 9 years with a NMC was a good plan is utterly clueless. if the shoe fits.........

[aziz]

Remember the Upshall trade? That will look like peanuts compared to what the Flyers would have to throw in to dump Bryzgalov's salary.

right, doesn't even come close. the thing i keep coming back to is that NMC will follow him in a trade. any GM trading for him will be bound by it, too. no one in their right mind takes on an asset as questionable as bryzgalov for as long as his deal lasts without any ability to manuever once they have it. onc we get to year 6, 7, 8, it becomes less of an issue, but until then, that contract just can't go anywhere.

unless holmgren/snider are willing to pay through the nose to cut the contract during a possible buyout amnesty next summer. which i really can't see them doing.

[Vincent05]

Snider could give him a nice new Porsche Turbo (sorry)

With no brakes?

[idahophilly]

I agree... all I'm saying is can we get a STABLE defence in front of him for just 3-4 games? If they do and he doesn't start to perform I'll be on him like fly's on rib roast. And, to me and maybe just to me, he plays way more conservitive when he has a depleted offence in front of him. It ain't a good "play" but I think he's overthinking it. Can't prove that crazy theory. Just throwing it out as a possibility.

Aziz, hope you don't mind our spirited debat? Good points you have made...

@flyercanuck: He already offerd him cars, dancing girls and Carters beach side home...

[JackStraw]

Snider could give him a nice new Porsche Turbo (sorry)

I think he might have to throw in the Gulfstream Jet.

[mojo1917]

@idadhophilly

you're missing the very bad pelle lindberg joke. or choosing to ignore it.

@flyercanuck

shame on you , i'm laughing my ass off... so shame on me too...

[brelic]

Oh I agree, I was just saying IF we need a way out there are ways. I think long haul he will be fine. Better than Leighton!!! And with Bob as a VERY reliable backup I'd say we are in reasonbly good shape. If Bryz has a complete meltdown (which he won't long term) we still have Bob. Better than a Boucher/Leighton tandem.

It's really a simple question? Do you want a Boosh/Lighton/Bob/and what, 1 or 2 others as I recall in a sick 5 way in goal or are you better off with Bryz/Bob?

I think you're assuming that Bob will re-sign here next year. I'm not convinced that will happen. We can't afford a $2M+ backup, and he certainly doesn't want to be backup for another 9 years.

I think he'll be traded before he ever becomes an RFA next year.

[hf101]

I think he'll be traded before he ever becomes an RFA next year.

Most teams resign their young goaltenders as the entry level deal expires........Rask, Bernier, Scheidner, and Harding for example.

[brelic]

Most teams resign their young goaltenders as the entry level deal expires........Rask, Bernier, Scheidner, and Harding for example.

That's a good point, but Schneider is making $900k, Rask is at $1.25M, Bernier is at $1.25M, and Harding is at $750K. Also, the only one on that list that is blocked by a long term starter is Schneider, with Luongo's contract expiring in 2021.

So, Schneider is trying his best to steal that job. And let's say he does, for good. What on earth do you do with Luongo? He has an NTC, which is less restrictive and gives Vancouver a little more leverage. But it's just basically a mess that GMs create by signing players to decade-long contracts.

If Bob refuses to re-sign, does he then become a UFA? Not sure how that works exactly...

[aziz]

Aziz, hope you don't mind our spirited debat? Good points you have made...

oh, absolutely, and i'm sorry i got snippy. this is just exactly what i expected to see out of bryzgalov. i'm not shocked and i am just shy of positive that it isn't going to change. the goalie you've seen this season is the same goalie that was in a coyotes jersey last season, and the same goalie that almost had me driving into oncoming traffic when the signing was announced.

i mean, you said:

all I'm saying is can we get a STABLE defence in front of him for just 3-4 games?

but the reality is the flyers have allowed the 5th fewest shots against in the league. he IS playing behind a stable defense. yes, he's getting hung out now and then, but overall, he has a top-5 defensive team in front of him. the difference between PHX and philly is the D is not designed to specifically cover his ass, it is designed for him to do his part, once in a while. we are seeing how capable of doing that he is.

[aziz]

Most teams resign their young goaltenders as the entry level deal expires........Rask, Bernier, Scheidner, and Harding for example.

most young goalies play out their entry level deal in the AHL, though. rask being the only exception of the above.

[idahophilly]

yeah. I got the joke i DO choose to ignoore it. Poor in taste at the best.

Moving on from that cra--p....

So... as usual... Next... If you prove to be right about this is then what you expected from Bryz the darn man, I'll be right there with you. I'm just not ready to right his obituary (sp) yet.

Next: Can't we wait until we have a semi stable defence infront of him as far as communication and tendacies and all...

And finally its a physological diference... Or Phyco...

Stop living in the past. Think of all the nations/armys/sports teams that have screwed up? Countless. We have been over this cfra=p about Pronger and Bryz over and over again. Lets figure on what's going to happen next with out rehashing this. ( we did over and over again for months and years).

We have Byyz at THIS term at THIS price and with A NMC... Aziz, instead of going back and undoing things you cant, where do you go from here?

[radoran]

yeah? tell me the last time a guy with a full NMC waived it entirely. i've seen some give a short list of acceptable teams to their GM, and i've seen some accept a trade that has already been negotiated, but i've never seen one agree to be sent to the AHL, or be traded to the islanders.

Case in point - although a NTC and not NMC: Simon Gagne.

Also, Bob's already signed next season for $1.75M.

[aziz]

true, gagne waived his no-trade, but i don't believe he waived the NTC and then holmgren went shopping. as i recall, the move was presented to him and he accepted...and the lightening weren't exactly a penny pinching bottomfeeder looking to claw their way above the cap floor by means of a cap hit/cash salary differential, which was the senario presented.

[radoran]

true, gagne waived his no-trade, but i don't believe he waived the NTC and then holmgren went shopping. as i recall, the move was presented to him and he accepted...and the lightening weren't exactly a penny pinching bottomfeeder looking to claw their way above the cap floor by means of a cap hit/cash salary differential, which was the senario presented.

I was actually SUPPORTING your point.

We got bubkus for Gagne and he had the franchise over a barrel.