Lavi has to go

[ruxpin]

They are absolutely factors, but truly to what degree? I still think that this team is underwhelming due to the nimrod in net, not the other way around. Remember how poorly the team played when Leaky got regular starts for a while there a few years ago. Those easy goals against do a number on a team's psychology. They absolutely crush momentum.

I think it's a circular thing at this point. I think Bryz did carry them to some degree early. At some point, though, negativity and lack of confidence permeated the whole room. It's difficult for me to argue whether it started with Bryz and went to the team or the other way around (I could argue either side depending upon my mood at a given moment). But at this point, goalie and skaters seem to be feeding off each other, and not in a good way.

[doom88]

I think it's a circular thing at this point. I think Bryz did carry them to some degree early. At some point, though, negativity and lack of confidence permeated the whole room. It's difficult for me to argue whether it started with Bryz and went to the team or the other way around (I could argue either side depending upon my mood at a given moment). But at this point, goalie and skaters seem to be feeding off each other, and not in a good way.

I can agree with that. Vicious cycle.

[radoran]

He has 26 of 28 starts so far. That's not projecting to 46/48, though it's close (44.5).

I agree, back to back games used to dictate using a backup for one game. Not sure why Lavy didn't use Bryz, unless he really thinks Bryz just needs games to get back into the groove. I'm secretly (not really) hoping that Lavy is trying to torpedo Bryz and force management into a buyout.

I rounded up an extra point, sorry

Starting 45 of 48, then. That's like starting 76 or 77 in a "normal" season - i.e. INFREAKINGSANE.

Still, if that is his plan, he's right on with the organization's mantra: Even year, coach - Odd year, goalie.

With whatever dreck they manage to find to replace Bryz (if they buy him out this season) the plan seems likely to continue in 2014...

[radoran]

At some point, though, negativity and lack of confidence permeated the whole room. It's difficult for me to argue whether it started with Bryz and went to the team or the other way around (I could argue either side depending upon my mood at a given moment). But at this point, goalie and skaters seem to be feeding off each other, and not in a good way.

"negativity"?

Maybe they all need an award for knowing their lace count.

Perhaps an ice cream social?

Seriously, are these guys NHL hockey players or kindergartners?

[flyercanuck]

"negativity"?

Maybe they all need an award for knowing their lace count.

Perhaps an ice cream social?

Seriously, are these guys NHL hockey players or kindergartners?

Seriously, you won't get much kinder than Mike Gartner. (groan)

[ruxpin]

Seriously, you won't get much kinder than Mike Gartner. (groan)

That was nauseating.

[toughfighter83]

Of course I don't know what Snider is thinking. Does anyone? I haven't understood what Snider is thinking in over a decade at least. IS Snider thinking? You tell me.

If a team is TRYING to win, I can think of better things to do than get Gagne. What options are there on the last place Phantoms? As far as actual prospects, the fact they apparently don't want to use up games served vs. UFA status on a wasted season says a lot (and indicates they don't think much of this season). And using Bryz in all the games is because they don't have an option. They still have to sell tickets so they have to at least appear as if they give a damn. Playing Leights or Boucher says "we're not allowed to forfeit a game but..."

yeah like homer tried to get webber, sutter, zach p, that's a sign they dont care about winning.

[ruxpin]

yeah like homer tried to get webber, sutter, zach p, that's a sign they dont care about winning.

The Kool Aid is even more delusion-inducing if you put alcohol in it.

[King Knut]

Why on earth would they ink Kimmo to another year to ostesnsibly retire here and then trade him at the deadline?

and has kimmo.

[King Knut]

You really have to get over Bob at some point here.

widdle confidence being concerned about someone outplaying him and the subsequent cat calls for his backup.

[ruxpin]

You really have to get over Bob at some point here.

By "you" do you mean Bryz or the "you in general" kind of thing?

I was over Bob while he was still here.

[King Knut]

Of course, in all seriousness (because I do know you're realistic about Bryz and Bob) Bob is an RFA after this season... so you know, maybe we can offer him 20 billion dollars and bankrupt the Blue Jackets in the process?

Yes, I believe he did. I *think* it probably had more to do with his widdle confidence being concerned about someone outplaying him and the subsequent cat calls for his backup.

[King Knut]

The transition game has been a pretty consistent problem since Lavvy got here IMHO. They do best at this point when they avoid it. Once in a while you'll see Timmo or Coby send a hail mary pass to a streaking forward, but as far as an old fashioned multiple crisp passing transition game, this team has none and hasn't since '08 IMHO.

You're right when you say that those guys are NHL defensemen, they are. The problem is that they are all too much of the same thing (other than Timo).

[ruxpin]

yeah like homer tried to get webber, sutter, zach p, that's a sign they dont care about winning.

Then I guess we're left with the "they're just horribly inept" conclusion. I can buy that.

What I won't accept is a straight-faced "this team SHOULD be able to compete and isn't" explanation. There's no way coming in that, stone-cold sober, anyone should have thought this was a good team.

[coords]

Wow, I've missed this more than I realized. Used to check out the old Philly.com forum. Looks like this one is a full reincarnation.

Really enjoyed reading the whole thread. Some interesting takes all the way around

I like the Hitchcock comparison and the idea that the younger players just don't have the build in defensive responsibility of an older team.

I honestly did think this team was good. With the win against Pittsburgh and the fact we got what looks like even value on Richards and Carter I just figured we'd a playoff team again.

And honestly thought our D would be OK. I was concerned with what NJ did to us and was looking for some sort of change but thought if we made adjustments we'd compete. Now that we're the dredge of the league with seemingly know real adjustments I couldn't help but blame Lavi.

That said, the responses made me realize I completely overrated our D. I had them as average, but it's clear it's they're worse. But I'm still hesitant to give the scheme a free pass. Yes there are the blue liners but defense is a team thing isnt'?

I've accepted its a transition season and will watch tonight's game more out of curiosity than with any hope.

[JackStraw]

I've accepted its a transition season and will watch tonight's game more out of curiosity than with any hope.

Transition to what, is the question.

[ruxpin]

Hey @coords

Really good to see you again. Good post. I think the idea that it's a bit of a lot of things is a good one...including the scheme.

Defense is definitely a team thing. The forwards are doing a lousy job of backchecking. I think we were going in hoping Coots would continue to be what he was last year, particularly in the playoffs. At 20 and in his second year, this may have been a little fool-hearty. The other defensive guy-Talbot-is struggling this year as well. So you're right that defense isn't just the defensemen. It doesn't change the fact we're playing some bozoes back there, but it definitely makes it worse than it had to be.

[radoran]

Then I guess we're left with the "they're just horribly inept" conclusion. I can buy that.

What I won't accept is a straight-faced "this team SHOULD be able to compete and isn't" explanation. There's no way coming in that, stone-cold sober, anyone should have thought this was a good team.

I wouldn't say it was ridiculous to expect this team to solidly compete for the playoffs - Cup something altogether different.

Defense

Timonen-Meszaros-LSchenn-Grossmann-Coburn-Dingo's Kidneys

Even with Dingo's Kidneys I'd say that's an upgrade on what they ended the season with last year...

- losing Carle set them back a puck handling defenseman and Mesz has not filled the spot

- Gervais/Foster/lilja are 7s, if not 8s or 9s

- they need(ed) to develop Gus or MAB (concussion) to take the 6 spot

Forwards

Briere-Hartnell-Voracek-Giroux-Simmonds-BSchenn-Fedotenko-Talbot-Couturier-Read-Rinaldo-Knuble/Gagne

- young and developing, but I would say arugable as to whether it is demonstrably worse. You had to anticipate continued improvement from Simmonds and Voracek and I think we've seen both.

- losing Jagr clearly had an effect. Take out Knuble/Gagne and put in Jagr and it's a different set of lines.

- Briere has been Disappointing, to say the least

- WAIVE SHELLEY NOW ™

Goalie

Breezy, Booshy, Leaky (and Doc)

- absence of a valid backup striking and deadly

That should certainly, IMO, be ahead of: Islanders, Winnipeg, Tronno...

[canoli]

It doesn't change the fact we're playing some bozoes back there, but it definitely makes it worse than it had to be.

I knew we were doomed the moment Homer signed Bruno Gervais. Gervais was never going help the Flyers; just the opposite he was going to take a roster spot away from someone who needs it - like Gus or Manning. If that wasn't bad enough we signed Kurtis Foster, who truly has no business in the NHL.

If we wanted scrubs for a 3rd pair why didn't we just stick with Matt Walker who was already signed?

I don't know this whole year makes no sense to me. Bryzgalov was the best player for the first month?? That alone tells me the Flyers' world is upside-down this year.

[ruxpin]

@radoran

For whatever reason--and memory is fading with age so I don't remember why--I didn't expect that Mezaros would play due to injury. So I didn't even include him in my offseason thought process.

Coming in, I liked the forward group. I thought we would miss Jagr and we're getting what I expected from Briere (obviously wouldn't have expected Hartnell to miss so much), but I really thought the rest of the group would be able to compensate. At least enough that I really didn't think offense would be a real issue.

But the defense didn't inspire me at all. I haven't been sold on Coburn. He's serviceable and has some good stretches, but that's all I've ever been able to say about him. I thought Timo was old. And he's played old. I like Grossman but I think he's a second pair guy or the "other" on the top pair.

I kind of liked the JVR for Schenn trade but more because I was happy to see JVR go. I didn't know a lot about Schenn, to be perfectly honest, but knew he had Leaf stench and couldn't fit in on a defense that really wasn't very good there.

Bourdon is nothing to me and while I like Gus I didn't think they'd use him much. And the Dingo's kidneys.

Added up I didn't think the Flyers had a defense that would enable them to compete.

Then we get to goaltending. I was hoping Bryz would be better than last year. I actually thought he would be, only because I didn't think he could do worse. He did start out better, but now I'm seeing what I saw last year. We can debate the reasons and you know I vacillate on the reasons. But given how he did play last year I thought it would be worthwhile to have a significant option (or at least capable option) at backup. When the Flyers decided to go with Leights/Boucher I nearly had an aneurysm. So, goaltending, to me, had likely disaster written all over it.

So, going in, I thought the offense would be good but not good enough to overcome what I felt were significant deficiencies on the back end. What is playing out, however, is that I was (accidentally, I'm sure) right about the defense but over-estimated the offense. I thought the Flyers might be able to sneak into the playoffs at 7 or 8 (I didn't see the Habs playing the way they are and the Peg and the Leafs are better than I thought they'd be) but thought it was likely they wouldn't make the playoffs baring either quite a bit of luck or some in-season moves.

[ruxpin]

If we wanted scrubs for a 3rd pair why didn't we just stick with Matt Walker who was already signed?

Excellent question.

[radoran]

@ruxpin

For YEARS I have been saying that an "off year" for the Flyers should be a 6-8 seed.

The team seems to believe that anything below 4/5 is unworthy of its consideratioin.

With even minimal attention to a 6th D and a backup G, I think this team more than fits the bill for a 6-8 seed.

Sign Carle and Jagr and I think they've got a better than average shot to get out of the first round.