coords

My mind is blown He was a line killer here. I'm pretty sure while he was here, with the way he played, he'd of reduced the point production of anybody on his line. It could have been Carter Crosby and Malkin, Carter, Lindros, Primeau, and he'd kill the line and have us questioning if Primeau was anygood. Yes he could shoot... but.. that was pretty much one good shot then 4 out of 5 times, high and wide and going the other way. Yes I know he could skate, yes I knew the way he did it made his style of play have nonchalance this city cannot tolerate...but who is this player on the Kings? He can pass now? He plays smart now? I thought he could get better but right now he's looking like the third best player on a team that should win the Cup...behind Quick and Doughty...I never of guessed that even possible.

If only giving them plenty of chances included a goaltender

I'm with you I like Downie for his skills..and think he can be a solid player without the antics. The trade was rough because Talbot was one of those solid character guys and I honestly think it took some steam out of any bit of confidence the team was getting and set them back into full slump land. But what's done is done...I like this third line a lot and look forward to seeing what they can do

I know Giroux is better than this. Homer's bad moves have out numbered his good ones and here we are. Just stings because we had offense for so long, we finally get goal tending and learn to play defense and the offense disappears completely. It is what it is

I'm doing this to help the team but some of it is how I really feel I'm done with Giroux...this board back when it was philly.com bashed Richards for all the things he wasn't just because he liked to have a good time. But why did we anoint Giroux the savior. He was always a good player. And has the better hands...but seriously, he does a couple heel drags through his own legs and makes some nice passes, gets paired up with Jagr and he was supposed to be everything Richards wasn't? These days he doesn't carry the puck anymore, and hacks and slashes in the name of playing defense. Honestly he's been given better line mates, more latitude for slumps, and more credit than he deserves. I think catering to him as the best player on the team has diminished the talent we are surrounding him with. Richards used to have to play babysitter..when he was given two solid line mates (knuble and gagne) he produced consistently. He scored on the power play, got assists, and scored on the PK. We ran him out of town because he likes to have a few drinks? Giroux leached off of Jagr, dazzled the fans here with his fancy moves and has faded into nothing. When I learn how to control my fandom I'll be a Kings fan. That should do it, I expect a 2 - 3 pts over the next two periods go flyers

I'd put Giroux on the third line for a game or two...he'll get better matchups, it'll wake him up, maybe make him possess the puck more, etc. For some reason I think something changes tonight...just a feeling

Why not first remove him from the top line...let him play with Rinaldo for a few games...may work by virtue of him not playing against the other teams' top lines? Personally I'm working on trying to become a Kings fan instead...anybody ever change the team they're a fan of before? Advice?

It's time for Homer to be done but he did have some good moves Fired Stevens (I think I'm the only fan of Stevens as a coach ever but concede this move worked) Pronger (before a freak puck to the face we had a defense and looked like contenders) Found Leino then let him go instead of paying Got Jagr (then let him go when he shouldn't have) Blew up the team (richards & carter) after seeing Boston do it successfully (and I still view this as a good directional change we broke even on)

Well...this trade, loss, and lost player maybe the c4 explosive that detonates the team the way this board has been clamoring for I didn't know they were this bad...I held onto some hope that they just needed to tweak it to get back to the team that knocked PItt out of the playoffs. Blow it up. Homer had some good moves in his tenure, but more bad ones, and they have finally swallowed the team whole. Pronger got us to the Cup Hartnell and Timonen helped bring us from piss to good We looked OK, maybe even better, coming out of the Richards Carter clear out deals but here we are..

To me looks like we have our goaltender. Kind of an empty feeling in the midst of being 1-7, 2-7, 3-7...but I think we have our goal tender. Hope the hole isn't too big to dig out of because if we can get the offense we've had plus this defense we can scare any team.

I thought Vinny played a solid game too considering it was his first back..in fact he was creating more space than any other player out there. It was a disappointing win but I like how Read Couturier and Simmonds are shaping out as the second line (first line the way they played tonight) Raffle Mc'Taffle is a nice player but doesn't belong on the top line. Voracek is playing well but I swear he used to be faster...he had a race for an icing he usually would have won out right. I don't know what to do with Giroux except stop sabotaging your first line with second line talent....(which they did to Richards his entire career here, save when it was Knuble and Gags)

Look dude.... Coburn isn't perfect but he was on the ice because he's a top line defense-men on a bad team. You are suffering from a case of correlation ='s causation where it's not necessarily true. There are more cops in high crime areas...the presence of more cops doesn't cause the high crime. This is all besides the point. The whole team has flipped on it's head...we now have solid to great goaltending, and now can hold teams not named Pitt, or Det to 2 goals or less, but suddenly we can't score. Which I can't make heads from tails from. I feel like riffing on everything...Matt Read is Mike Richards ghost and I was a Mike Richards fan, both on the ice for his play, and off the ice for how he played, because that's why you're in the NHL ... right. I like seeing a player make plays on sheer anticipation and smarts. Can't wait till G starts doing it again. Go Flyers

If we trade don't trade to win now trade to drop salary and get younger: Timonen Hartnell Then if we continue to do bad and pending the value of picks/players we would get back: Vinny - not because he's doing bad but why not clear house Streit Mez Coburn Emery etc. The Flyers could become the 76ers of the NHL

Until we break the 2 goals a game curse this is the right answer as far as I'm concerned. And I think the 2nd line shapes out pretty good.

I'm with aziz that some things looked good last night And if you take out the open netters we are allowing less goals (Mason seems like a viable answer to me, knock knock knock) My question is what did the Penguins do to use two playoffs ago? Ever since then the team has been horrible on defense, and now has become horrible on offense. I think we caught some strange disease or curse from them. Hopefully we can reverse it on Thursday. I think I can take two more losses and then I'm done with this team. Yes I'm all over the map with some holes in my points, but I learned it from watching them.

Been reading a lot and wanting to post so finally going to spit it all out. I'm bummed about the record but I think this team does have talent but is in a team wide scoring slump. I'm happy with the goaltending over what it was especially with Mason in net And to me the positive thing about Berube so far is they are letting up less goals....Detroit withstanding. So if the scoring can pick up and they can average 2.5 - 3 goals, and Mason can average 2 goals against the wins will come. Hartnell doesn't belong on the top two lines, he should have to earn it when he comes back Kimmo needs his role reduced. To me, the Flyers have been OK / verging on great offensively (the last few seasons) up until now so I don't think that's the problem, current slump withstanding. The real problem is the defense is too slow for today's game. I like Grossman, I like Coburn, I like Schenn, used to love but now just like Timmo, but cumulatively they simply aren't fast enough. We'll never have a true stud goal tender so I'll take solid. And we'll always have to kill off more penalties than Detroit, Pitt, Montreal...so need to make the best of it...learn how to score some shorties.

If he's a good enough skater to shut down Malkin than he's a good enough skater. You guys are stupid if you give up on this kid. Just about stupid enough to be GM of this team.

I get his value in the regular season sucks to the point you question his value to the team but how can anybody truly hate on a guy that comes up bigger when it matters more

It bothered me Bob never got a shut out as a flyer as far as I can remember. I saw the athleticism but to me the elite goaltenders pitch shutouts. It also bothered me the way Lavi yanked him in the playoffs and never gave him a second chance. My takeaway is that much like in football some franchises can't seem to find a QB, the Flyers are a team that can't find a goalie. Taking this from football...one approach to this dilemma is to build your team as if you don't expect your QB or Goalie to be elite. Then if they are elite you win a couple extra.

I honestly think if it was a regular season where this team had more easy patches in their schedule the young guys could have developed but what's concerning is we are owned by the teams in our Division. To me that's another sign that perhaps Lavi, or his scheme isn't the answer. Though really just fishing to see what the guys on this forum make of this crappy record against the teams we all probably hate the most.

I can't help but think with all the talk about all the injuries and how we've rallied that maybe some of that is that these players stepping up have been capable but not given a chance. There is definitely a difference between stepping in for a game or two and performing over a long haul as the guy but at the same time at what point do you ask if this player filling in is capable of performing at a better level.

I just want him to carry the puck more instead of just shooting. If he starts looping around the net a bit more and keeps the puck on his stick he'll be able to generate so much more offense. I've always taken issue with the blind just shoot it mentality. It's fine for your average players but when you are capable of possessing the puck and making plays there are times where going wide and setting up a possession is preferred to a one and done shot. The other thing is I think there's been too much line shuffling around Giroux, pick a top line and give it a chance to gel. My two cents I could be talked out of the latter point

Can't help it, the hope just doesn't die. I think the system the play is flawed I think they need to rethink then rebuild But I want the win, I want the playoffs. Admittedly I have self control issues so maybe its that but go Flyers

Wow, I've missed this more than I realized. Used to check out the old Philly.com forum. Looks like this one is a full reincarnation. Really enjoyed reading the whole thread. Some interesting takes all the way around I like the Hitchcock comparison and the idea that the younger players just don't have the build in defensive responsibility of an older team. I honestly did think this team was good. With the win against Pittsburgh and the fact we got what looks like even value on Richards and Carter I just figured we'd a playoff team again. And honestly thought our D would be OK. I was concerned with what NJ did to us and was looking for some sort of change but thought if we made adjustments we'd compete. Now that we're the dredge of the league with seemingly know real adjustments I couldn't help but blame Lavi. That said, the responses made me realize I completely overrated our D. I had them as average, but it's clear it's they're worse. But I'm still hesitant to give the scheme a free pass. Yes there are the blue liners but defense is a team thing isnt'? I've accepted its a transition season and will watch tonight's game more out of curiosity than with any hope.

I'm not an X and O guy. I don't see the schemes they talk about but since he's been here our defense and goals allowed has gone up. I'd love to be educated on why the system he is running isn't working but I see a team that: 1. Can't steal a game 2. Can't reliably hold a lead 3. Has to outplay the other team, count on the other team failing to convert on their chances, bury their own, and hope Bryz plays a decent game ...and a coach that has a free pass because of an HBO special and his ability to motivate his team in Timeouts. If Stevens had to leave because we couldn't win the cup playing possum hockey, and allowing the team to act like they were at a country club, then I think Lavi has to leave for not finding a way to reduce the goals allowed. Been reading other posts, Aziz's was awesome, team in transition. Maybe I'm over reacting. But if you have to build this thing back up I'd rather have a team that can play with a lead, play shut down D when it's called for. So let's get a coach/system that will let us do that.