Unbecoming of a Flyers Captain

[NRH]

You'd need to have a leadership personality, like that of Pronger. I don't see Timonen being that leader standing at the helm of the ship the same with Gagne.

Just give it to Vinny and see how he performs.

[radoran]

You'd need to have a leadership personality, like that of Pronger. I don't see Timonen being that leader standing at the helm of the ship the same with Gagne.

Just give it to Vinny and see how he performs.

Timonen was a captain long before you were a poster here.

Gagne isn't a captain-type leader. Not a knock. An admission that he would likely make.

If they were asking guys who wanted to be captain, Timonen would say "if you want me to be captain, I will serve" and Gagne would say "I'd rather it be someone else"

That's not a knock on EITHER player. That's the truth.

In "English" that means "give me the C and I'll lead this team" and "I'd rather it be someone else"

[NRH]

Considering this forum isn't that old, I'm sure he was a captain long before you also were a poster.

[radoran]

Considering this forum isn't that old, I'm sure he was a captain long before you also were a poster.

oooh! SNAP!

[NRH]

oooh! SNAP!

haha,

Still, not wanting the "C" responsibility is pretty unbecoming of leadership qualities, If Timonen wanted it, wouldn't he have asked for it by now? He had a career year when he was named the captain of the Preds. He seems pretty content remaining a Associate captain.

[radoran]

Still, not wanting the "C" responsibility is pretty unbecoming of leadership qualities, If Timonen wanted it, wouldn't he have asked for it by now? He had a career year when he was named the captain of the Preds. He seems pretty content remaining a Associate captain.

You just have no idea about cultural differences.

Timonen is willing to allow the people who are making the decisions to make the decisions.

And if they make stupid-ass decisions, he has to live with them.

It just happens that the Flyers keep making stupid ass decisions.

You blame Timonen for that?

Because I blame the people making the stupid ass decisions.

YMMV.

[NRH]

No, I don't blame him for it, where did I say that?

Most leaders step forward, they aren't simply chosen, That applies to all cultures.

If you aren't willing try and change a problem you'll be forever stuck as part of it.

[radoran]

No, I don't blame him for it, where did I say that?

Most leaders step forward, they aren't simply chosen, That applies to all cultures.

If you aren't willing try and change a problem you'll be forever stuck as part of it.

So why does Flyers' management choose the captain for the players?

The way they always have.

If they aren't willing to try to change a problem, they will forever be stuck a part of it.

[jammer2]

@ "Most leaders step forward, they aren't simply chosen, That applies to all cultures."

Abe Lincoln and George Washington say hello. Both great men who were elected by the people for the people.

[NRH]

@ "Most leaders step forward, they aren't simply chosen, That applies to all cultures."

Abe Lincoln and George Washington say hello. Both great men who were elected by the people for the people.

They weren't forced to run for president either

@radoran

Well, here is to another 3 decades.

Edited August 20, 2013 by NarrowRoadHeros

[radoran]

@radoran

Well, here is to another 3 decades.

The Pope is taking your application for the clergy seriously.

[ruxpin]

If they were asking guys who wanted to be captain, Timonen would say "if you want me to be captain, I will serve" and Gagne would say "I'd rather it be someone else"

Gagne absolutely you're right.

but do you think that's the difference between Timonen and, say, Pronger?

Timonen: "if you want me to be captain, I will serve."

Pronger: "Just Give me the C and shut up. I'll get it done."

What you said actually sounds like Timonen. I wonder if "if you want me to, I'll serve" is exactly what has prevented him from being captain.

There's a difference between "Well, if you want me to; it's your birthday after all" and "Com'ere baby!"

[ruxpin]

Abe Lincoln and George Washington say hello. Both great men who were elected by the people for the people.

I'm going to say this skirts the issue a bit. Sure, both were elected, but both long after they stepped forward. Kind of like the "put yourself in position for luck" in the other thread (except not at all like that)

[radoran]

Gagne absolutely you're right.

but do you think that's the difference between Timonen and, say, Pronger?

Timonen: "if you want me to be captain, I will serve."

Pronger: "Just Give me the C and shut up. I'll get it done."

What you said actually sounds like Timonen. I wonder if "if you want me to, I'll serve" is exactly what has prevented him from being captain.

There's a difference between "Well, if you want me to; it's your birthday after all" and "Com'ere baby!"

I'm rather sure it was, actually.

Of course, Pronger wasn't around when they gave it to Smith - who was so thrilled to have it that he left after a year.

And I doubt there was much discussion with Richards beyond "so, you want it now, or what?"

[murraycraven]

I can't remember for sure (so correct me if I am wrong) but didn't the Flyers want Gagne to be the Captain and he refused b/c he was not ready?

[flyercanuck]

@murraycraven

I believe you are correct sir!

[ruxpin]

I can't remember for sure (so correct me if I am wrong) but didn't the Flyers want Gagne to be the Captain and he refused b/c he was not ready?

I believe so, yes.

[ruxpin]

I'm rather sure it was, actually.

Of course, Pronger wasn't around when they gave it to Smith - who was so thrilled to have it that he left after a year.

And I doubt there was much discussion with Richards beyond "so, you want it now, or what?"

Yeah. That's pretty much how I think it went with Richards. The problem, I think, with Richards wasn't when they actually made him captain (that's a problem in itself, obviously) but that they basically annointed him as the next Clarke before he actually made it onto Flyer ice. And they were going to proceed with that reason be damned.

Maybe part of the problem is incessantly trying to find the next Clarke instead of trying to find the next whatever the name is on THAT jersey (I'd be happy with the next Poulin, btw).

[radoran]

I can't remember for sure (so correct me if I am wrong) but didn't the Flyers want Gagne to be the Captain and he refused b/c he was not ready?

really would have made it more awkward when they then had to send him away in a salary cap problem...

really well managed organization.

[Flyskippy]

really would have made it more awkward when they then had to send him away in a salary cap problem...

really well managed organization.

If we're going to critique all the mistakes, we have to take into account the successes also. It's easy picking apart the team by its mistakes and declaring it a failure via sarcasm when the good moves are removed from the full picture.

Black colored glasses are just as disingenuous as orange colored ones. That's why, to be realistic, one needs both the orange and the black.

[NRH]

If we're going to critique all the mistakes, we have to take into account the successes also. It's easy picking apart the team by its mistakes and declaring it a failure via sarcasm when the good moves are removed from the full picture.

Black colored glasses are just as disingenuous as orange colored ones. That's why, to be realistic, one needs both the orange and the black.

With little Philly P's on them as well?

[radoran]

If we're going to critique all the mistakes, we have to take into account the successes also. It's easy picking apart the team by its mistakes and declaring it a failure via sarcasm when the good moves are removed from the full picture.

Black colored glasses are just as disingenuous as orange colored ones. That's why, to be realistic, one needs both the orange and the black.

Way ahead of you, man. These are actually my glasses:

http://www.zappos.com/ray-ban-rb3016-clubmaster-49-top-dark-havana-orange?ef_id=UJkpcQAAX9HH4GTN:20130820140347:s&zfcTest=fcl%3A0

Also have the orange and black shoes to go with them.

And the kitchen painted orange with black highlights and the retired numbers up on the wall.

Just earlier today, it was remarked in my office that "my color" is orange.

Love the team. Hate the management.

And I think I've been pretty clear that there are good decisions that have been made. It's just that the bad ones tend to overshadow those "successes" when "success" doesn't mean "winning a Cup."

[Flyskippy]

With little Philly P's on them as well?

I prefer not to tinkle on mine, but whatever floats your boat.

Edited August 20, 2013 by Flyskippy

[Flyskippy]

Way ahead of you, man. These are actually my glasses:

http://www.zappos.com/ray-ban-rb3016-clubmaster-49-top-dark-havana-orange?ef_id=UJkpcQAAX9HH4GTN:20130820140347:s&zfcTest=fcl%3A0

Also have the orange and black shoes to go with them.

And the kitchen painted orange with black highlights and the retired numbers up on the wall.

Just earlier today, it was remarked in my office that "my color" is orange.

Love the team. Hate the management. :)/>

And I think I've been pretty clear that there are good decisions that have been made. It's just that the bad ones tend to overshadow those "successes" when "success" doesn't mean "winning a Cup."

LOL!

I wish I could add a smiley from my phone. Nice glasses.

As to your critique, I understand it but the team is trying -- as always -- to reach the same goal of winning a Cup as you, me, and the entire fan base. It's not as bad as many detractors make it out to be.

[radoran]

LOL!

I wish I could add a smiley from my phone. Nice glasses.

As to your critique, I understand it but the team is trying -- as always -- to reach the same goal of winning a Cup as you, me, and the entire fan base. It's not as bad as many detractors make it out to be.

I'm a 45-year fan who has seen the ups and downs. I agree they have the same goal.

I just disagree with their means of achieving it.

And I don't have any faith in the guy(s) who made one of the single worst decisions in the history of hockey by tying the franchise to a crippling nine-year, NMC deal, dealing away a future Vezina winner (because they screwed up on how many games he could play and be waiver exempt) and then forcing the cancellation of half a season of hockey to make that decision go away will "get it right next time."

They very well might - and I'll happily be at the parade a block from my house on Broad Street.

Been waiting for that since 1975.