Where will Miller land?

[yave1964]

  The fact that Lafontaine has said he is willing to listen to offers for Miller even before Dudley do right came aboard means color Miller gone like a cool breeze. So instead of figuring out IF he is going to be dealt it is a matter of where and when.

  The sooner the better. The longer you wait the lower his value.

  A poster in here mentioned Miller would only go to the Wings or California which is simply never in a million years going to happen, period. None of the California clubs would want him, and the Wings are up against the cap even if you think Miller is better than Howard they have no room and have to ride it out.

  So as far as where he goes, to me the options are:

 

The Islanders who are having a difficult time with Nabakov and Poulin

 

The Jets who are playing okay hockey and rumblings have been going around that Pavelec is wearing thin

 

The Predators if Rinne is going to be out for longer than they feared and if they feel they are still in position to contend

 

The Flames seem like a perfect fit as they have no real goalie on the roster or near ready in the AHL

 

  These are really the only clubs I can see making a push for a goalie and Jonas Hiller is being shopped as well by the Ducks so it is more of a buyers market as there are two good playoff caliber goalies on the market.

  What is he worth? The Sabres are rumored to not be interested in just a pick, they supposedly want NHL ready now players in return and need to be careful because of the cap floor.

  I can see Miller being dealt for forward depth, a Filip Forsberg and a cap heavy body to keep them over the league minimum plus maybe a second rounder, from the Jets maybe a big boy trade involving Evander Kane, The Isles might be able to deal Okposo, the Flames, hell I don't know maybe Baertchi and Backlund plus a pick. Dudley is on the clock and the Miller situation will define how he does in Southern Niagara.

[Irishjim]

i can't see any team giving up a major piece for miller unless he agrees to an extension to his new team. plus this will be his last big contract.  of the 4 you listed the preds make the most sense. he could be a playoff rental and if he preforms well could offer an extension then dangle pekka at the draft for players and or picks

[radoran]

Dudley is on the clock and the Miller situation will define how he does in Southern Niagara.

 

Dudley hasn't even been hired yet...?

 

And it's not "Southern Niagara" it's "Western New York"

 

I don't see Miller in Buffalo by the end of the season, they should definitely be listening to offers for him and make a deal if it will benefit the team. I disagree that it's "sooner" rather than "later" - still a lot of hockey before the trade deadline.

[jammer2]

@yave1964  I know you have to pay for quality, but I can't see the Flames parting with a big part of their future in Baertuchi to land a 34 year old goalie. The Isles are in trouble with secondary scoring as it is, but I could see them making a move for Miller, they are in win now mode.

 

 Just a passing thought, but could the Pens be looking at Miller, for a Fleury playoff implosion insurance. Lord knows they have the young prospects to get it done.

[Bertmega]

Edmonton Oilers...Unless they are part of the eight teams that he will not play for. 

[yave1964]

Dudley hasn't even been hired yet...?

 

And it's not "Southern Niagara" it's "Western New York"

 

I don't see Miller in Buffalo by the end of the season, they should definitely be listening to offers for him and make a deal if it will benefit the team. I disagree that it's "sooner" rather than "later" - still a lot of hockey before the trade deadline.

   I am of the belief that if you are going to trade someone you should do it sooner rather than later and get as much as you can. Set a bar of the minimum you will take for a player and the first team that hits it you gotta jump and be done with it. Miller is gone this coming summer and the team is wretched the last service he could do for the organization is to quietly stay out of it and play hard raising his trade value to help the sabres in the future.

[radoran]

   I am of the belief that if you are going to trade someone you should do it sooner rather than later and get as much as you can. Set a bar of the minimum you will take for a player and the first team that hits it you gotta jump and be done with it. Miller is gone this coming summer and the team is wretched the last service he could do for the organization is to quietly stay out of it and play hard raising his trade value to help the sabres in the future.

 

Right, but Rick Dudley hasn't even been hired yet...

 

I think Miller's played very strong this season, despite the record. His SV% is more than respectable for a primary starter.

 

I don't believe you and I are that far apart in our thinking - just the question of whether a team will hit the mark the team wants "sooner" rather than "later".

[jammer2]

@Hockey Junkie "I think its just plain nonsense that you say he is gone for sure.  No way.  If the price is right maybe."

 

 It's pure and utter nonsense to say he will not be dealt. Why keep him, to what end? Is the goal not to get better and become competitive? Will Ott suddenly turn into Wayne Gretzky, will Myers morph into into Ray Bourque and somehow lead the team to the finals? Miller is a major piece they can use to get better.....so keep dreaming. 

 

 Maybe, just maybe Miller wants to play some meaningful games, and it aint happening with the Sabres. The org owes him a chance to compete for Lord Stanley. He's been a good soldier, stayed longer than most would, now it's time they give him the chance to win something, or at least the chance to compete for every kids dream....the Cup.

[TropicalFruitGirl26]

On another thread I threw out that Miller could end up on either the Islanders or the Flyers....I will stick to that.

No media based reasons for it...just two teams that I think could really use his help and may have players the Sabres would be interested in....especially the Flyers who may want to create some cap room by unloading some contracts, while improving their 'Tending situation.

 

Another team that no one has mentioned (and may not happen actually) could be Toronto.

Yes, the Leafs.

Everyone thought Jonathan Bernier would be the clear cut number one over there. That has not been the case. James Reimer has made that VERY cloudy with his good play when called upon.

 

Crazy as it sounds, Toronto may want an established winner like Ryan and would be willing to trade one of Reimer or Bernier to the Sabres (either, I am thinking would fit the Sabres' needs very well in terms of age, ability and finances), and whichever remains would back up Miller (or push Miller for the starter's job...whichever the case may be).

The Leafs would get a 'win now' goaltender....and still have either Reimer or Bernier should Miller decide to leave at season's end, and the Sabres would get a good young goalie in either Reimer or Bernier.

 

Again, this isn't anything that I've overheard, or saying is GOING to happen, but just one of the 'out of nowhere' deals that COULD happen.

 

As for @Hockey Junkie , hey, I know the terrible feeling of knowing that a key or favorite player may be shown the door on your team. I've gone through that with my Tampa Bay Lightning most recently with Vinnie Lecavalier, to a lesser extent with Steve Downie, and before that, Brad Richards, Dan Boyle, and even going further back to my preteen/teen days, Chris Gratton, Enrico Ciccone, and Roman Hamrlik in the late 90's.

 

But thing is, Buffalo is pretty much in rebuild mode, Miller is a high priced veteran who wants to win NOW, and whose contract expires at the end of the year...the Sabres FO would be EXTREMELY irresponsible if they didn't explore getting the maximum return they could for him...especially when they have a capable Jonas Enroth to hold the fort, either while a number one is brought in, or he becomes the undisputed number one himself.

 

I would be very happy for you if Buffalo decided to keep Miller and do a quick turnaround personnel-wise in order to compete next season...or even attempt a comeback playoff push THIS year...but honestly, I just don't see that happening.

Just too many holes right now on the Sabres, plus, I suspect there is the matter of 'team culture'....one that has gone from tough, gritty, skilled players who expect to win every night, to players who seem to be waiting for the worst to happen, HOPING to win, with lots of frustration permeating the team...at least, IMO.

 

Oh, and Miller to Nashville sounds reasonable as well.

Edited November 19, 2013 by TropicalFruitGirl26

[yave1964]

@radoran

  I know I got ahead of myself and misspoke with the Dudley comment, what I was trying to say is Lafontaine stated before he hired a GM even, (not necessarily Dudley) that he was willing to listen to offers for Miller. The Dudley thing was a Freudian slip, I just assume that Dudley will be the man from the massive amount of folks who are stating he will be. I think Dudley will be a good hire when he is finally given the job. So yes I got ahead of myself stating Dudley is on the clock when he has not even been hired yet but I think it is a done deal with him coming to Buffalo, he seems so perfect.

[yave1964]

  The biggest reason I say the sooner the better, if you look at it from the perspective of a contender in the day and age of parity the difference between satisfying your fan base with a playoff appearance and being an also ran who barely misses is sometimes, more and more actually razor thin. Look at the Blue Jackets of last season, they were IMHO easily one of the top ten-twelve teams in the game by the end of the year yet still missed the playoffs on the last day of the season. If I am a contender I believe in aggressively going out and getting it, reach for the stars, thirty or forty starts from Miller versus eight or nine could be the difference between playing meaningful games in April and May instead of scheduling tee times. Like the Isles deal for Vanek, they took a big piece of the deadline puzzle of the table early now granted he is hurt but he is due back and may be what gets them into the post season. Waiting until late March has never made much sense for me.If you know you have a weakness that cannot be fixed with the personnel currently in your organization and someone has a player available who may be the piece of the puzzle that makes it all come together, get on the phone and make it happen. Do I feel the Isles maybe overpaid by giving up Moulson and picks in the long term? Probably. Do I think the Isles are better right now, this year? Of course. Live in the moment and make it happen.

[radoran]

  The biggest reason I say the sooner the better, if you look at it from the perspective of a contender in the day and age of parity the difference between satisfying your fan base with a playoff appearance and being an also ran who barely misses is sometimes, more and more actually razor thin. Look at the Blue Jackets of last season, they were IMHO easily one of the top ten-twelve teams in the game by the end of the year yet still missed the playoffs on the last day of the season. If I am a contender I believe in aggressively going out and getting it, reach for the stars, thirty or forty starts from Miller versus eight or nine could be the difference between playing meaningful games in April and May instead of scheduling tee times. Like the Isles deal for Vanek, they took a big piece of the deadline puzzle of the table early now granted he is hurt but he is due back and may be what gets them into the post season. Waiting until late March has never made much sense for me.If you know you have a weakness that cannot be fixed with the personnel currently in your organization and someone has a player available who may be the piece of the puzzle that makes it all come together, get on the phone and make it happen. Do I feel the Isles maybe overpaid by giving up Moulson and picks in the long term? Probably. Do I think the Isles are better right now, this year? Of course. Live in the moment and make it happen.

 

I don't disagree. But your point that the team should set it's price and wait for someone to hit it is well taken.

 

There's no need for Buffalo to move Miller sooner than later but there may be for the team acquiring him.

 

I just don't see a potential contender that is thisclose to a playoff berth that they would give up significant assets to grab Miller now. Could be wrong. Wouldn't be the first time, won't be the last.

 

You do have to give to get - and there is a strong case to be made, for example, that the Isles aren't really THAT much better with Vanek than they were with Moulson. And they gave up a lot to get Vanek. If Buffalo is looking for "NHL ready players" and picks for Miller, it could hurt a potential playoff team more than help to make the move at this point.

 

@TFG - there's no way Miller winds up in Philly unless Mason goes down with an amputated leg.

 

(Also, Vanek's always injured )

[ruxpin]

If Miller goes anywhere through anything but free agency, I would be stunned.   Maybe the Sabres are able to move him for something very little, but I doubt they get much.

 

And that's not an indictment on Miller.  Miller is a terrific goaltender.

 

But it becomes a game of who is really in the market for a goaltender, who has the cap room even for that short period of time, and who is on Miller's "I'm not going there!" list.

 

Rumor is he wants to land out West.

 

Los Angeles:   Quick is hurt but he'll be back.   LA is out.

Ducks:  They are three goalies deep.  Hiller is a free agent at the end of this year.  If this Anderson kid is as advertised and Fasth continues to develop, they'll go as far as they can this year and then let Hiller walk (they could want to trade him at the deadline, but I think that's a mistake)

Sharks:  I just don't see them moving any assets for Miller when they have Niemi.   Of the two goalies, which one has a Cup?

Vancouver:  We already know how easy [sic] it is to move Luongo, so that's a "hell no!"

Phoenix:  They just signed Mike Smith.   I don't think this is likely.

Edmonton:  A month ago I would have said that hockey-wise this made sense.  It no longer does because of their signing Bryz.  Also, I believe Edmonton is on Miller's "I'm not going there!" list.

Calgary:  From what I've read/heard, Calgary is on Miller's "Oh, hell no!" list.

Colorado:  No

 

Of the Western teams that are actually out west, unless someone moves to Seattle in the next month I don't see the West happening.

 

Dallas:  With Lehtonen and Ellis?   No, don't think so.

St. Louis:  They have one too many goalies already.  Possibly two too many

Chicago:  Let's be serious.

Minnesota:  Even with Backstrom down, they are well-covered with Harding

Winnepeg:  Might be interesting, but I just don't think this happens.  Pavelec is under contract for forever and Montoya is a good backup.  i could see the possiblity of a Miller for Pavelec deal money-wise, but there is no way--if I'm Winnepeg--I trade my 25 year old under-contract goalie for a more expensive rental who likely would not have any interest in staying in Winnepeg.  Definite maybe, though

Nashville:  A maybe if Rinne is done for the year.  If not, this is foolishness. 

 

East?

Detroit:  Howard is younger and under contract for awhile.  And I really don't think Miller is any better. 

Columbus: No.  Bob hasn't been great this year, but Columbus' problems are not goaltending.  Not enough to give up the assets it needs to continue to build.

Toronto:  Both goalies already there are better.  Next.

Ottawa:  I actually think Miller would be an upgrade to Anderson (and may be in the vast minority here).  I don't think Ottawa would agree, certainly not enough to give up the assets Buffalo would be asking for.

Montreal:  Instead of Carey Price?  No

Boston:   Let's be serious

New York Rangers:  Come on.  I haven't stopped laughing from the Boston thing yet.

New Jersey:  They're going to be trying to unload their own goalie.  And swapping makes no sense for either team or either goalie.

Philly:  Why?  Both our goalies are having better years and are cheaper.    Concentrate on re-signing Mason and either resign Emery or go get someone else cheap for backup.  Maybe Brodeur    Finally, Philly would need to send cap out.  If I'm Buffalo, I'm out from under Miller's contract (whether they trade him or let him go).  I don't tie up that cap space with some Philly send off.   They already have Leino for that.

Islanders:  Sorry kids, while this makes some sense, the Islanders already did the WRONG trade with Buffalo.  They should have traded for Miller when they traded for Vanek.  They don't have the draft picks left, quite frankly, that Buffalo would be looking for.

Washington:  Gonna say no although I think short-term that Miller would be an upgrade to Holtby (whom I've never been sold on).   If at the deadline the Caps are in first or close to first and Miller is still available, it might be something they should seriously consider as a rental.

Florida:  Look, Florida will need a goalie, but if I'm starting where Florida is, I'm not trading assets for a goalie.  It's like a team with no starting pitching trading prospects for a closer.

Tampa: They are set with Bishop and Lindback.  No way I do that.

Carolina:  With Cam Ward back, that's a no.

Penguins:  You know, I really could see this being Ray Shero's annual trade deadline splash.  I have no faith in Fleury in the playoffs and if it's not Miller it's Brodeur to Pittsburgh as a rental.

 

 

 

In my estimation, the possibilities are

Calgary (no trade list)

Winnepeg (dumb)

Washington (unlikely but I kind of like the idea)

Pittsburgh

Maybe Florida (probably no-trade list and just dumb from Florida's perspective)

 

Unless it's Pittsburgh at the deadline, I highly doubt Miller goes anywhere and think Sabres fans are almost guaranteed to be very disappointed in the return.  Shero doesn't have to play hardball if he plays his cards right.  First, he DOES have Fleury so this is insurance policy. Second, if Brodeur is still around that is leverage.

 

Rolston did well in what he got back for Vanek.  The problem is he traded the wrong guy.  Miller first and you have more options where to move the scoring winger later.

[TropicalFruitGirl26]

Tropical Fruit Girl, I like your take on things.  You are very honest and  have no axe to grind like these Flyers fans here.   But your own team was miserable last year and turned things around in one year.  Why cant Buffalo do the same?  They can if they play their cards right.  Miller could stay.  Its very possible.  Of course they will entertain offers.  But if they are not huge returns, the answer will be a resounding NO.    Keeping Miller makes more sense.  Enroth is not capable of running the ship.  Hackett?   Know little about him.  I guess I should tune into an Americans game soon.  See how things go with them now being restocked.  Until I read it in print, MILLER STAYS.  And the Sabres are already playing better with Rolston and his no personality attitude gone.  Nolan has lit a fire.  

 

Well, yes, the Bolts did turn things around...at least to this point.

And it very well could be possible Buffalo does the same.  But a price has to be paid somewhere.

 

It cost the Lightning Vincent Lecavalier in order to really push the change the team so desperately needed. I was not happy about it, still am not. But I understand WHY Vinnie had to be bought out. He had done so much in terms of on ice performance in the past and community involvement as well, but he did become a bit complacent with the Bolts and his salary was a blockage to being able to pay some of the young guns the Lightning are looking to keep down the road.....including the attempt to lock up Stamkos when his contract expires at only age 27.

 

That is why I was thinking Buffalo would need to move Miller and get the max for him. Some price needs to be paid in order to move onward and upward.

Enroth may not be what Miller is now, but he has shown so much potential with some of his performances. If only the Sabres can get a good forechecking group, or a very solid defensive corps...it would make his transition SO much easier, and in turn, grow his confidence....dealing out Miller may help those areas of forward and defense.

 

The changing of coaches IS bright spot...again, to use the Lightning parallel, the same way removing Guy Boucher and replacing him with Jon Cooper has worked so far for the Bolts.

With the change of the coaches, comes a change of culture and attitude...fresh ideas, new blood, and a cleasning of people and things that had anything to do with what didn't work in the past.

 

Tampa did it, Buffalo did it by bringing in Nolan...now your team needs the actual players to execute for Nolan.  And if dealing Miller for a goalie to push Enroth (or even Hackett...I forgot Minny traded him there...more on him in a sec), AND getting some forwards or D-men in the process helps things along, then I can see why it would be a good thing to trade him.

 

Who knows...maybe Buffalo does a wonderful PR spin and Miller buys into that the Sabres will compete next year and convince him to re-sign. Nothing is impossible. But that scenario still seems not likely.

 

As for Matt Hackett, he was looked upon for quite a while by the Wild organization as a guy who could be a replacement for Niklas Backstrom.

To be honest, I am not entirely sure why Minnesota gave up on him. Not sure if it was an attitude thing, or a sense that the Wild needed to win sooner rather than later, and preferred to stay with vets (Backstrom/Harding) at goal while bringing in someone like your former Sabre Jason Pomminville.

 

I've seen Hackett play at the NHL level, and frankly, he has looked pretty good. Keep in mind the guy is only 23 and he may not show what he is fully capable of for another 3 or 4 years yet.

He has not been particularly impressive in his AHL games, but hard to read too much into that, as I've seen goalies dominate in the AHL only to fizzle in the NHL, and guys who seem mediocre in the American League REALLY mature and step their game up once given a real chance at success (and a good defense in front of him doesn't hurt either) at the NHL level.

 

I liked the Wild getting Pominville, but must admit to being surprised they gave up Hackett to get him, as I knew Backstrom (injury prone) is nearing the end of his days as a full time starter, and Josh Harding has the MS issues, though he is proving damned good facing adversity these days for Minnesota.

I thought Hackett would be given the reigns at some point, especially since the Minnesota defense had always been pretty good and getting better.

 

But back to your original point, yes, these days in the NHL, with the cap and the flood of great talent available from many sources (college, minors, Europe) it is quite possible for teams to make drastic turn arounds.

But you have to ask yourself:  Do the Sabres, as constructed, have the founding personnel and skill where keeping a veteran goalie makes sense? And if the answer is "no", then we are back to Miller being dealt in order to GET that foundation of players.

 

Lightning basically had that foundation already with their collection of up n coming players....just needed the goaltending, the maturing of the defense, and the removal of certain contracts and/or mindsets in order to move forward.

 

Buffalo has started that process, but still think they need a bit more.....and dealing Miller could very well advance them by leaps n bounds in that regard.

Edited November 19, 2013 by TropicalFruitGirl26

[ruxpin]

But back to your original point, yes, these days in the NHL, with the cap and the flood of great talent available from many sources (college, minors, Europe) it is quite possible for teams to make drastic turn arounds.

But you have to ask yourself: Do the Sabres, as constructed, have the founding personnel and skill where keeping a veteran goalie makes sense? And if the answer is "no", then we are back to Miller being dealt in order to GET that foundation of players.

Lightning basically had that foundation already with their collection of up n coming players....just needed the goaltending, the maturing of the defense, and the removal of certain contracts and/or mindsets in order to move forward.

 

I think that's the crux of the difference between Tampa and Buffalo.  You highlighted, correctly, the coaching change.  The other difference is that Tampa's GM move just had his fourth draft and fourth offseason.  You jettisoned some people you had to (some painfully, as you point out), and have a Stamkos to build around as well as some other young kids. and of course MSL.   You've got your young goalie in place and things are starting to look good.

 

Maybe Tampa was still bad last year.   But the foundation and direction is already 3 years in.  The Sabres just blew up the front office and coaching staff.  Stranger things have happened, but they are still 3-4 years away.    Something that should be painfully clear to anyone not drinking directly from Lake Erie.

[jammer2]

@Hockey Junkie  When Hackett played 12 games for the Wild as a 19 year old a few years ago, he had some outstanding stats. His stats for the Americans have been.,..meh, but make no mistake, that kid has real skills.

 

 http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=100341