Polaris922 Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 60-80 points per season with no center of any talent and not prone to injury? We laugh about his stay puff appearance, but an NHL writer made some good points. If he's out of shape, how does he smoke defensemen so often, and play so many games injury free? I'm not saying he's a Toews type, but now he doesn't have to be. All he needs to do is score goals. I'm thinking 40+ if Sid stays healthy.Anyone thinking this is no big deal is fooling themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 2022....Pens better win in the next 3 years or this deal is terrible from a cap perspective. Paying Crosby, Malkin and now Kessel those contracts will put some serious hurt on the depth chart. This is a classic "flyers" win now move a la Homer and Clarkie. Good move for the offense of the pens but they still have no bottom six and suspect defense.2022... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Add LeTang to that list as well ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 I don't like Kessel. I think he was largely the problem in Toronto. That's where "cancer" comes from. That said, I think the Penguins are one of only a handful of teams where this could work. I think if you put him on a team where he is not the guy - - and actually is below a few-- and not expected to be a main leader, he could thrive. And clearly the guy can score. So long as Crosby can play with him (honestly, that's always a concern because that isn't always easy for whatever reason) this will work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 I don't like Kessel. I think he was largely the problem in Toronto. That's where "cancer" comes from.That said, I think the Penguins are one of only a handful of teams where this could work. I think if you put him on a team where he is not the guy - - and actually is below a few-- and not expected to be a main leader, he could thrive. And clearly the guy can score.So long as Crosby can play with him (honestly, that's always a concern because that isn't always easy for whatever reason) this will work. This is the best case scenario for Phil the Wallflower. Going to a team that already has way bigger names, and where hockey isn't religion. Phil can go about eating his cookies in peace. It would definately be in the Pens best interest if he could play with Crosby (instead of having your entire forward line watch the play go the other way like they did in Toronto) but there is the but he's NOT Kunitz issue. I also agree with MC on the 3 year window...fat Phil will start to lose his speed at some point. When he does, that contract is going to be ugly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJgoal Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 This is the best case scenario for Phil the Wallflower. Going to a team that already has way bigger names, and where hockey isn't religion. Phil can go about eating his cookies in peace. It would definately be in the Pens best interest if he could play with Crosby (instead of having your entire forward line watch the play go the other way like they did in Toronto) but there is the but he's NOT Kunitz issue. I also agree with MC on the 3 year window...fat Phil will start to lose his speed at some point. When he does, that contract is going to be ugly. To me, the conditional pick is a big key to this, and it ties in here. If that pick becomes a 2nd, the Penguins lost that trade big time. I think that even if it moves to the 2017 first, the Penguins lose. This is a "win now" move. If the Pens miss the playoffs entirely? Yikes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 @AJgoal I'd say with that contract being 7 friggin years...if the Pens don't win the cup in the next couple years, they lose. And the Pens weren't Phil Kessel away from the cup last year...and they lost a couple Dmen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJgoal Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Well, there's that. But the fact that it's only a conditional, lottery-protected first has been regarded a huge win by many fans around the 'net. I would tend to disagree due to the reasoning above. But, as always, everything else goes out the window if they win the Cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 @AJgoal The Sid/Malkin window isn't closed by any means, but it is closing. Malkin will be 29 next month, Crosby 28 before the season starts. That ain't old, but it's becoming past their prime for todays NHL forwards. Without much in the pipeline as forwards go (Kapanen and this years Sprong were the only decent prospects) they're definately in win now mode. They bought low on a highly skilled, albeit one truly strange person.... Who isn't getting any younger, and whose physical appearance screams big mac XXXL fries and a 98 oz Big Gulp, not pro athlete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notfondajane Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 To me, the conditional pick is a big key to this, and it ties in here. If that pick becomes a 2nd, the Penguins lost that trade big time. I think that even if it moves to the 2017 first, the Penguins lose. This is a "win now" move. If the Pens miss the playoffs entirely? Yikes.I could see them missing the playoffs in both 2016 and 2017! Should this happen, I wonder if the ownership group would be happy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notfondajane Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 It's not so much what the Pens gave up! It's who they received in return! With the injury bug getting to the dmen and our great goaltending situation ( cough). I don't like Kessel defensively! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Kessel is the same age as our core. Draft picks are irrelevant for the next four years. After that, a lot of star players manage well into their early thirties. Could we have a season or two of hurt the last couple years? Sure. But if the Flyers can trade Pronger knowing he'll never play again, I really think all the cap talk is just forum fodder. I haven't heard a single analyst bemoan the cap hit. In fact, I'm hearing the opposite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 I have to give kudos to @Holymakinaw He and some others--including myself--were discussing the prospects of Kessel being moved. Let's just say off the top that he was 90% right and I was 90% wrong. And the points I was right about were quibble stuff. He was right on the crux of it. I didn't think Kessel could be moved with his contract vs. his play/conditioning/desire but with the caveat "not without retaining salary." I was right about the retaining salary, but I would have thought a LOT MORE salary than what it ended up being. While I was partially right on this point (retaining salary), I still wasn't right on the amount so this doesn't really quite count as being right. He thought he could be moved, thought the Leafs would get a first rounder and decent prospects/young players and that there would be multiple teams looking at him. Right on all counts. Kudos to you, @Holymakinaw. While I was busy blustering, you should have put down some money on it. You'd be 50¢ richer today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notfondajane Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 I always liked a strong defensive game similar to the Devils of the late '90's with a more potent offense! Kessel is an excellent offensive threat! I would hate to see a 5 on 4 going the other way when Phil is on the ice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 @notfondajane You'd better get used to it. Scoring goals and watching the other team score them, not necessarily in that order, are Phils forte'. And eating cookies and hot dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 I always liked a strong defensive game similar to the Devils of the late '90's with a more potent offense! Kessel is an excellent offensive threat! I would hate to see a 5 on 4 going the other way when Phil is on the ice!Phil never had a Crosby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 To me the most important part about this trade is going to be if Crosby can get Phil to buy into getting in shape. The guy has turned into a blob. I can't even figure out how he can skate with that physique. A change of scenery might be just what the doctor ordered here. If Kessel realizes he needs to work out at all, it could stretch his careers a few years of relevance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 To me the most important part about this trade is going to be if Crosby can get Phil to buy into getting in shape. The guy has turned into a blob. I can't even figure out how he can skate with that physique. A change of scenery might be just what the doctor ordered here. If Kessel realizes he needs to work out at all, it could stretch his careers a few years of relevance.The guy burns defensemen on a regular basis. Hasn't missed a game in years. I can't see how he could do that in this league if he were that badly out of shape. Having said that, he always looks pudgy these days. I'm hoping Gary Roberts gets him down in weight and he actually gets faster. It has to matter, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Does THIS guy look in shape? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 The Phil Leaf fans came to know.... http://www.torontosun.com/2015/07/01/leafs-were-sick-and-tired-of-kessel Like I said, if they can get him to actually work out, it'll make the deal work better in their favor...if not, he'll likely lose his speed by 30 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Appearances... He's missed 36 games in nine seasons... Not a single one in the past five. While scoring 520 points in those nine years. You've seen him burn quite a few "fast" defensemen as well as I have. You don't play that many games... Over 450 consecutively now, if you're out of shape. Do I think he could be better? Yes. I'm hoping Roberts fixes that. But he's hardly a pylon out there. He's among the fastest skaters in the league.. Pudgy and all. Besides... Round is a shape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B21 Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 I don't like Kessel. I think he was largely the problem in Toronto. That's where "cancer" comes from.That said, I think the Penguins are one of only a handful of teams where this could work. I think if you put him on a team where he is not the guy - - and actually is below a few-- and not expected to be a main leader, he could thrive. And clearly the guy can score.So long as Crosby can play with him (honestly, that's always a concern because that isn't always easy for whatever reason) this will work. This. All indications were that the guy was a good teammate (i.e. - good locker room guy). Hardly a locker room cancer. Heck, one of his "worst" moments was sticking up for Phaneuf and calling out the Toronto media who he's clearly had some issues with....and many of whom are a little too big for their own britches. He's not a "face of the franchise" guy - certainly not in the hockey hot bed that is Toronto. A team like Pittsburgh - where he's not "the" guy (heck - not even the 2nd or 3rd guy) is a good fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 @Polaris922 He's far from a pylon. Like I said, I can't believe a guy that chubby can fly like that. I just see it crashing down fast if he doesn't do something about it. The change of scenery may be the kick in the arse he's needed for a few years...goals and all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B21 Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Appearances... He's missed 36 games in nine seasons... Not a single one in the past five. While scoring 520 points in those nine years. You've seen him burn quite a few "fast" defensemen as well as I have. You don't play that many games... Over 450 consecutively now, if you're out of shape. Do I think he could be better? Yes. I'm hoping Roberts fixes that. But he's hardly a pylon out there. He's among the fastest skaters in the league.. Pudgy and all.Besides... Round is a shape. Rumor has it he was (or was planning to) work with Gary Robert's at the new facility in Cranberry even before the trade. That can only help. He doesn't need to be Mr. Universe....just drop a few pounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B21 Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 To me, the conditional pick is a big key to this, and it ties in here. If that pick becomes a 2nd, the Penguins lost that trade big time. I think that even if it moves to the 2017 first, the Penguins lose. This is a "win now" move. If the Pens miss the playoffs entirely? Yikes. The pick is lottery protected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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