OccamsRazor Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Yeah, I meant if the Flyers were giving up the promising young LW to get Schenn/Read/Alt This type of return would have made dealing JVR easier to stomach.....no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 This type of return would have made dealing JVR easier to stomach.....no? "I think this could be the year that BSchenn's value goes up significantly" - said everyone in every year Schenn's been in the league. But he's looked good so far and is an RFA. Read? Not a bad piece at a pretty good contract - but coming off a terrible year. And I really don't think much of Alt at all. The tragic thing is that two of those Top 31 LWs in the list above were dealt by the Flyers and they have Umburglar and LSchenn to show for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 "I think this could be the year that BSchenn's value goes up significantly" - said everyone in every year Schenn's been in the league. But he's looked good so far and is an RFA. Read? Not a bad piece at a pretty good contract - but coming off a terrible year. And I really don't think much of Alt at all. All true so which would you do if you do over again? (pretend the other aren't already here) JVR for Luke Schenn or JVR for Brayden, Read and Alt??? I think it's a no brainer!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Raffle is nothing more than a 3rd line player... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 All true so which would you do if you do over again? (pretend the other aren't already here) JVR for Luke Schenn or JVR for Brayden, Read and Alt??? I think it's a no brainer!!! The no brainer to me is to not make either deal. A lackadaisical, unmotivated 30-goal scorer would have more value than either of them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 There is very little difference between Simmonds and Hartnell that I see. Simmonds will give his linemates time and space the way Hartnell did. Put Gagner on the left. Simmonds on the right. Drop Voracek a line. Play him with Laughton and Schenn. Put Couturier with Read and Umberger. this is good insight, i haven't thought of splitting Jake an G up because....they're the lead dogs... however they are very similar players to one another and this seems like a really good idea, super agree with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 A lackadaisical, unmotivated 30-goal scorer would have more value than either of them... Now this i do not agree with you'd be trading 154 points for 216 pts and a kid who has yet to get a chance to play in the NHL yet. No way. Since the 2012-13 season to date only G, Jake and Simmonds have more pts than Brayden. Brayden has 36 ES goals behind only Simmonds (38g) and G and Jake (40g a piece). So let's not undervalue Brayden who is also 2 years younger than JVR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Now this i do not agree with you'd be trading 154 points for 216 pts and a kid who has yet to get a chance to play in the NHL yet. No way. Since the 2012-13 season to date only G, Jake and Simmonds have more pts than Brayden. Brayden has 36 ES goals behind only Simmonds (38g) and G and Jake (40g a piece). So let's not undervalue Brayden who is also 2 years younger than JVR. OK, but I was looking at making the trade when it happened, not in hindsight. After 12-13 JVR (18 in 48 - projects to 30) would have had more value than just getting LSchenn. Interesting thought piece. I like Brayden Schenn as a player probably more than most. I think he needs a consistent role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 i don't see any reason for any Schenn hate so far this year. that goes for both Schenn's Luke has been fine. He is what he is; a stay at home who'll hit you, makes a good first pass and can chip in with a decent shot occasionally. What's the problem ? really ? other than he's carrying 15 extra pounds that slow him down and don't make him noticeably stronger. Brayden has been very good, he's around the net, he's shooting good shots, he's making smart plays...if he stays reasonably consistent he's going to have a nice year. He looks motivated , i don't care why, he looks like a # 5 overall pick to me right now. If he disappears for 20 games at a time again well maybe those are his true stripes, i like what i've seen so far though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Would a package of Simmonds and one of the D prospects get it done? The only concern there would be the money because Simmonds doesn't make a ton but I think that could be a framework of where to start negotiations. I was thinking maybe somone like Jeff Skinner? Still young, has scored 30+ goals and is speedy enough to keep up with G and Jake. I would include Simmer in a package for Nikolaj Ehlers yes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 I think he needs a consistent role. Well don't look now but i think he's getting it by them leaving him on the wing and he is leading the team in goals! In fact he has as many goals and points as JVR through with 8 games played!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Would a package of Simmonds and one of the D prospects get it done? The only concern there would be the money because Simmonds doesn't make a ton but I think that could be a framework of where to start negotiations. Let me say i like Simmer a lot but if he (and yes it would take more than him) was to go for a winger like Nikolaj Ehlers... ...then yes they need a top LW for years to come and this guy could be it!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Flyers are still above .500. I believe everyone thought that's about where they would be this season. They won 2 or 3, they are going to lose 2 or 3. Just the way it is. I'm more focused on how they are developing and how/if real coaching is going to make a difference with the core players. On a different note, the lines need to be changed up. 89 Sam Gagner- 28 Claude Giroux - 93 Jakub Voracek24 Matt Read - 10 Brayden Schenn - 17 Wayne Simmonds20 R.J. Umberger - 21 Scott Laughton - 12 Michael Raffl 40 Vincent Lecavalier - 76 Chris VandeVelde - 25 Ryan White It's been said many times, but until the Flyers have a 1LW that can take pressure of Jake/Giroux they are going to struggle to produce. We've seen what Raffl can give and honestly, it's not his fault at all. He's just not a 1LW. It's time to give Gagner a chance at it. Not 1 game either. Let's give them 20-30 games to see what happens. More than likely he isn't the 1LW they need but he might flurish even more being paired with those two and the result would be a better player or a better trade chip. When Couturier and Bellemare return to the lineup, the lines would look like this: 89 Sam Gagner - 28 Claude Giroux - 93 Jakub Voracek10 Brayden Schenn - 14 Sean Couturier - 17 Wayne Simmonds24 Matt Read - 21 Scott Laughton - 12 Michael Raffl 78 Pierre Bellamare - 76 Chris VandeVelde - 25 Ryan White [20 R.J. Umberger], [40 Vincent Lecavalier] This gets most of the forwards in the correct positions except for Gagner (who I don't believe is a 1LW or 2LW unless he gets to prove otherwise) and B.Schenn.Then, Hexy needs to make the following happen for next year: True 1LW - 28 Claude Giroux - 93 Jakub VoracekTrue 2LW - 14 Sean Couturier - 17 Wayne Simmonds24 Matt Read - 21 Scott Laughton - 3RW78 Pierre Bellamare - 76 Chris VandeVelde - 25 Ryan White 1LW Hexy will have to trade for. B.Schenn is the key piece of the trade and maybe Gagner also (see above).2LW could be Matt Read (as a stop gap) but I believe he is better as on a shut down line. Taylor Leier is a possibilty but he'd have to make a big leap this summer.3RW could be Travis Konecny or someone from the phantoms. The defense speaks for itself and will only take time for it to shake into one of the best in the league. Nice post Digity, geez we get more in depth stuff from you when you don't have to run this place, huh? lol..... I like your revamped lines when the injured guys come back, but I would put Cooter on a tight leash, either score or next man up....in this case it's Laughton...who has not shown any great offensive prowess, but I really like the way he skates and pressures the puck....good things usually come from that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 The tragic thing is that two of those Top 31 LWs in the list above were dealt by the Flyers and they have Umburglar and LSchenn to show for it. What's even more tragic is how JVR was absolutely castrated on this forum. Not saying at times it was not well deserved, but how many of us on here would love to take this trade back. Sometimes the grass is not always greenier on the other side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 It's a hard one to answer. Nikolaj Ehlers would probably be the hardest to get because he has already played 10 games (4 gls 4 asts) burning a year on his ELC so they obviously think a lot of him to do that. Fiala is in the AHL and at worst if he was to stay there his contract will slide another year. Richie is trickier he is in the AHL as well and turns 20 in december. And is more along the lines of a power forward not a finisher G and Jake need but he couldn't hurt! I would think Ehlers is an untouchable in Jet land. Would love to see him in O&B, but in the end I think it would cost way too much. Would a package of Simmonds and one of the D prospects get it done? The only concern there would be the money because Simmonds doesn't make a ton but I think that could be a framework of where to start negotiations. I was thinking maybe somone like Jeff Skinner? Still young, has scored 30+ goals and is speedy enough to keep up with G and Jake. Correct me if I am wrong, but I though Skinner had injury issues...(ie. concussions). Not sure what Carolina would want in for return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 What's even more tragic is how JVR was absolutely castrated on this forum. Not saying at times it was not well deserved, but how many of us on here would love to take this trade back. Sometimes the grass is not always greenier on the other side. JVR is STILL a dog. Listened to the fan from Toronto and almost every Leaf fan that called in was infuriated with his lack of heart and effort. He is the kind of guy who disappears when the going gets tough....F him. As much as I hate Luke Schenn, I'd rather have him than that soulless piece of crap. What good is 20+ goals when he is invisible when the team really needs him. I'm still SUPER glad he is gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 @jammer2 Was just looking at his production on the ice...not his attitude on the ice. Agree....don't need a player with no heart. I don't miss JVR either. Was just tryiing to play devil's advocate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 What good is 20+ goals when he is invisible when the team really needs him.You spelled 30 wrong I don't "miss" him, either - just wish they got something more than the pylon they got for a 30 goal scorer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 I would think Ehlers is an untouchable in Jet land. Would love to see him in O&B, but in the end I think it would cost way too much.Correct me if I am wrong, but I though Skinner had injury issues...(ie. concussions). Not sure what Carolina would want in for return. That would be a total failure on Hextall if he made that trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 @murraycraven For which one? I am assuming Skinner. I want NO part of Skinner. Ehlers would be nice and would cost WAY TOO much. I don't think we have to worry...I have faith in Hexy he does not make a boneheaded trade like his predecessor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 You spelled 30 wrong I don't "miss" him, either - just wish they got something more than the pylon they got for a 30 goal scorer. 30....yes, but a WHOPPING 2 of those came from late Dec to the end of Feb...the exact time the Leafs fell out of playoff contention. He scored early and often, and late....when they were out...when they really needed him....GONE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 What's even more tragic is how JVR was absolutely castrated on this forum. Not saying at times it was not well deserved, but how many of us on here would love to take this trade back. Sometimes the grass is not always greenier on the other side. Well he did suffer from issues that this group still suffers from and and that was consistent effort. And from some i've read still suffers at time in Toronto. Fans want to see consistent effort and i can't blame them. Yes JVR changed some after the trade but has still regressed more to like he was he doesn't play a 200 foot game and certainly would fit here now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 30....yes, but a WHOPPING 2 of those came from late Dec to the end of Feb...the exact time the Leafs fell out of playoff contention. He scored early and often, and late....when they were out...when they really needed him....GONE It's the same thing Flyers bitch about with G and Jake not being effective. And most times it looks like the effort isn't there. They just love to have selective memory and only remember the goals he scored not the times he looked like he didn't even want to be playing. I don't miss him one bit. Glad he is gone i just don't like just getting Luke back for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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