The Curious Case of Medvedev's Benching

[hf101]

If it IS that simple... well, then.. I guess I'm disappointed. I dunno.. I like reason and logic behind decisions. Not just .. well, I said I was gonna rotate them, so that's what I'm doing. You know.. like Berube. 

 

ok, .... then how about they are showcasing Schultz    

 ...  I can hope right?

[Podein25]

ok, .... then how about they are showcasing Schultz

... I can hope right?

Schultz was minus 1 before the game was 2 min old. Helluva way to showcase.

[Howie58]

Howdy:

 

Maybe we're overdoing the analysis. Hakstol may be quietly fuming at the under-performance of his first tier players and want to send a signal.  Tonight we seem to be skating but can't buy a goal.  The Vancouver announcers just discussed the non-scoring top tier players on the Flyers. Hakstol may be disgusted and anybody is a target.

 

Howie

[hf101]

Schultz was minus 1 before the game was 2 min old. Helluva way to showcase.

 

for waivers.  

[murraycraven]

nah, was definitely manning. made no sense to me at the time, either, but he was a prospect and all things are possible for prospects. until they obviously aren't.

Please find those posts bc I remember the opposite. Most thought he was a career AHLer.

[jammer2]

nope, no joke.  the history search on this forum is...limited, but it happened, and vigorously.

 

 Manning and the Norris should never ever be mentioned in the same sentence. I'm not doubting you bro, but I don't ever recall reading that....what a friggin joke!!

[hf101]

Manning and Gudas schooled by the rookie Virtanen

[murraycraven]

If they keep icing Gudas/Manning as a pairing it has to be obvious they are trying to get the lottery pick.  Gudas can hit but there is not much else there... not a good skater.  Manning, well he should not even be playing...

[jammer2]

@murraycraven   I *think* Gudas is a slightly better skater than Luke Schenn.....but it is pretty close. He's more effective than Schenn, knows when and where to go for the hits better. The problem is, when they are both playing, the defense is uber slow and can be taken advantage of quite easily. Throw in the fact Schultz went from fairly dependable to crap, you have a very high lottery pick waiting to happen. As the saying goes, Flyer goalies are gonna see more rubber than the 401.

[jammer2]

  I would have thought that Medvedev would be a cinch to re-sign for another year after training camp and the first few weeks....but this benching puts that in severe doubt. He's already on the wrong side of 30 and being a year older and a half a step slower will not help his cause at all. I'd have to say I was wrong, that this will be his one and only year as a Flyer.

[murraycraven]

@murraycraven   I *think* Gudas is a slightly better skater than Luke Schenn.....but it is pretty close. He's more effective than Schenn, knows when and where to go for the hits better. The problem is, when they are both playing, the defense is uber slow and can be taken advantage of quite easily. Throw in the fact Schultz went from fairly dependable to crap, you have a very high lottery pick waiting to happen. As the saying goes, Flyer goalies are gonna see more rubber than the 401.

 

absolutely jammer!!! lol.,...

[Howie58]

Howdy:

 

Reflecting on last night one thought came to mind: This group was skating and trying to compete. But the skill/speed just isn't there. I am concerned that Mason's save percentage is returning to earth.  

 

Candidly--I wonder if Hexstall is going to do a "wake-up" trade?  This group is in a funk.

 

Howie

[radoran]

Candidly--I wonder if Hexstall is going to do a "wake-up" trade? This group is in a funk.

 

It's certainly a club in his bag - but I don't know that a "wake up" would make the rest of the team faster.

 

Snider has asked rhetorically in the past if they have simply overvalued some of their players. He obviously said "no" - but I think there is a strong argument to be made that they may have.

 

The direction of the team isn't going to change with a "wake up" trade of a Matt Read or even a Wayne Simmonds or a Sean Couturier. And aside from the VeeGees and Streit - there's not a whole lot that other teams are going to be clamoring after.

 

I keep harping on it, but the long term damage done to this franchise by Paul Holmgren cannot be overstated.

[aziz]

Please find those posts bc I remember the opposite. Most thought he was a career AHLer.

I'll try to track them down when I get home tonight. The search feature for this site seems to only index a year's worth of posts, though. This was two or three years ago.

[jammer2]

  One thing I'm pretty sure of, that is Hexy is a pretty smart dude. I think he's the type of guy who can learn from mistakes....so the likelyhood of a player getting a huge deal based on one season will probably never happen again. Does not take the sting out of the fact that Vorachek will make 8.2 mill a year until 2023, but at least we have something to hang our hat on. The likelihood of Jacob living up to this contract, based on what we have seen so far is a big, fat, giant 0.

 

  He can't be as bad as what he has shown thus far...but he might never approach 80 pts again....so basically, Hexy got taken to the cleaners. I don't blame him really, I thought the chances of him flopping like this were nil....so, Hexy, myself and almost every other Flyer fan were wrong.....dead wrong...and there is no fixing it. All we can do is hope and pray he comes around and starts actually earning his money. The effort is there, but he is totally snakebit...could not score a goal right now to save his life.

[murraycraven]

It's certainly a club in his bag - but I don't know that a "wake up" would make the rest of the team faster.

 

Snider has asked rhetorically in the past if they have simply overvalued some of their players. He obviously said "no" - but I think there is a strong argument to be made that they may have.

 

The direction of the team isn't going to change with a "wake up" trade of a Matt Read or even a Wayne Simmonds or a Sean Couturier. And aside from the VeeGees and Streit - there's not a whole lot that other teams are going to be clamoring after.

 

I keep harping on it, but the long term damage done to this franchise by Paul Holmgren cannot be overstated.

 

Could not agree more rad... great post.

 

I really dont see a trade coming and frankly it would not do anything.  Until this defense is purged and we actually get some depth on offense we will be stuck with more of the same.   Simmonds is off the table unless you can get a haul for him - his contract is actually very good.  Maybe he tries to move Schenn?   

 

All I know is this is the Team I expected - "more of the same."   The bonus is this should put us in position to get a quality draft pick.   

[murraycraven]

I'll try to track them down when I get home tonight. The search feature for this site seems to only index a year's worth of posts, though. This was two or three years ago.

 

 

I tried man.... dont even bother   The search function is not all that great...I will happily take your word for it.

[murraycraven]

  One thing I'm pretty sure of, that is Hexy is a pretty smart dude. I think he's the type of guy who can learn from mistakes....so the likelyhood of a player getting a huge deal based on one season will probably never happen again. Does not take the sting out of the fact that Vorachek will make 8.2 mill a year until 2023, but at least we have something to hang our hat on. The likelihood of Jacob living up to this contract, based on what we have seen so far is a big, fat, giant 0.

 

  He can't be as bad as what he has shown thus far...but he might never approach 80 pts again....so basically, Hexy got taken to the cleaners. I don't blame him really, I thought the chances of him flopping like this were nil....so, Hexy, myself and almost every other Flyer fan were wrong.....dead wrong...and there is no fixing it. All we can do is hope and pray he comes around and starts actually earning his money. The effort is there, but he is totally snakebit...could not score a goal right now to save his life.

 

 

Jammer... I agree.   Jake was grossly overpaid IMO **but** he is not as bad as he is playing right now.  As you said - he is getting his chances and I really think he will be fine.  Not sure he will ever live up to his paycheck and really be that type of elite player on a consistent basis but we are stuck w/ that deal.  Hextall has made some decent moves but he has also made some head-scratchers IMO:  Jakes deal could be a killer, Trading for RJ, Schultz, etc...  Hartnell would look great on that 1st line right now and would be among the leaders in points on the Flyers.   

 

Hextall is on a "wait and see" with me personally b/c he has not had the cap room to make any moves that really shape the club.  The only really one was investing a lot of $$ into Jake and the return quite possibly will never be there.   I expect big things for that type of money and I hope Jake tears the league apart at some point - but right now it is not looking good.

 

Seems to draft well so that is a bonus but until those prospects produce we wont really know.

[aziz]

One thing I'm pretty sure of, that is Hexy is a pretty smart dude. I think he's the type of guy who can learn from mistakes....so the likelyhood of a player getting a huge deal based on one season will probably never happen again. Does not take the sting out of the fact that Vorachek will make 8.2 mill a year until 2023, but at least we have something to hang our hat on. The likelihood of Jacob living up to this contract, based on what we have seen so far is a big, fat, giant 0.

He can't be as bad as what he has shown thus far...but he might never approach 80 pts again....so basically, Hexy got taken to the cleaners. I don't blame him really, I thought the chances of him flopping like this were nil....so, Hexy, myself and almost every other Flyer fan were wrong.....dead wrong...and there is no fixing it. All we can do is hope and pray he comes around and starts actually earning his money. The effort is there, but he is totally snakebit...could not score a goal right now to save his life.

Wait, what? Guys, as shitty as it is right now, effective goal scorers have rough starts/stretches sometimes. Crosby has 1 goal and 5 points in 11 games. Getzlaf has 1 point in 8 games. Kopitar has 4 points in 11. These players did not become <40 point guys over the summer. They'll each shake it off, and by season's end, will have point totals 'round about what we would expect. As will voracek and giroux.

It's tough to watch right now, and they'd better snap out of it soon, but declaring careers over less than a quarter of the way through the season is crazy.

[Podein25]

I will happily take your word for it.

 

 

But don't we want to know who said it? If it was me, for example, I'd want to know if I said something that stupid so I could, you know, maybe learn from it and stop saying stupid things.

[murraycraven]

Wait, what? Guys, as shitty as it is right now, effective goal scorers have rough starts/stretches sometimes. Crosby has 1 goal and 5 points in 11 games. Getzlaf has 1 point in 8 games. Kopitar has 4 points in 11. These players did not become <40 point guys over the summer. They'll each shake it off, and by season's end, will have point totals 'round about what we would expect. As will voracek and giroux.

It's tough to watch right now, and they'd better snap out of it soon, but declaring careers over less than a quarter of the way through the season is crazy.

 

 

aziz... I agree.  My only hesitation is that I am not sure if Jake is in that class of players.  Not saying he is not but have we already seen the best of Jake in terms of production?  just playing devils advocate...  If I were a betting man I think he will be fine.   Not sure if he will be 7M per year fine but that is another debate.

[murraycraven]

But don't we want to know who said it? If it was me, for example, I'd want to know if I said something that stupid so I could, you know, maybe learn from it and stop saying stupid things.

 

Pods... I tried looking for it b/c I was curious too... could not find anything.

[radoran]

  One thing I'm pretty sure of, that is Hexy is a pretty smart dude. I think he's the type of guy who can learn from mistakes....so the likelyhood of a player getting a huge deal based on one season will probably never happen again. Does not take the sting out of the fact that Vorachek will make 8.2 mill a year until 2023, but at least we have something to hang our hat on. The likelihood of Jacob living up to this contract, based on what we have seen so far is a big, fat, giant 0.

 

  He can't be as bad as what he has shown thus far...but he might never approach 80 pts again....so basically, Hexy got taken to the cleaners. I don't blame him really, I thought the chances of him flopping like this were nil....so, Hexy, myself and almost every other Flyer fan were wrong.....dead wrong...and there is no fixing it. All we can do is hope and pray he comes around and starts actually earning his money. The effort is there, but he is totally snakebit...could not score a goal right now to save his life.

 

It was always too much for Voracek. Always.

 

Should honestly have waited until he showed he could do it again. Never understood the rush to sign when they did. Yes, I know all the "reasons".

 

This goes back to "overvaluing the players." I like Jake a lot but he's still a 20-25 goal scorer. Every other player even making $7M or more at right wing has been a consistent 30-goal scorer in this league.

 

$8M IMO was, is and always will be ridiculous for Jake.

 

The Flyers have one of the highest-paid, lowest goal scoring duos in the league.

 

And they're having trouble scoring goals.

 

Go figure.

 

Wait, what? Guys, as shitty as it is right now, effective goal scorers have rough starts/stretches sometimes. Crosby has 1 goal and 5 points in 11 games. Getzlaf has 1 point in 8 games. Kopitar has 4 points in 11. These players did not become <40 point guys over the summer. They'll each shake it off, and by season's end, will have point totals 'round about what we would expect. As will voracek and giroux.

 

OK, fine, but Jake's a 22, 23, 22 goal scorer for the Flyers. He could certainly reach 22, 23 goals by season's end. And that's great.

 

But it's not $8M great.

 

You aren't seriously comparing Voracek apples-to-apples with Crosby, Getzlaf and Kopitar are you? Last year was Kopitar's first sub-25-goal season since his rookie year. Crosby hasn't scored less than 30 in a full season ever. In the past three seasons Getzlaf has 15 in 44, 31, 25 goals. Jake has never scored 25.

 

Honestly, he's something along the lines of a Jason Pominville but with less of a scoring touch. Pommer had 80 points in 82 games in 07-08 and has one 70+point season since, while still posting 30 goals in 11-12 and 13-14.

 

Pominville is a $5.6M cap hit (signed through 18-19) and Jake would be Just Fine if he was around even $6M.

 

At $8M, he's IMO never going to be "that player"

 

Pains me to say it, and I wish it wasn't true.

 

Hope it's not.

 

But IMO it will be...

[aziz]

aziz... I agree. My only hesitation is that I am not sure if Jake is in that class of players. Not saying he is not but have we already seen the best of Jake in terms of production? just playing devils advocate... If I were a betting man I think he will be fine. Not sure if he will be 7M per year fine but that is another debate.

Sure, could be that he topped out last year, but I'm ok with that. $7mil ok with that? maybe not, but it's still a far cry from disastrous.

[radoran]

$7mil ok with that? maybe not

 

You spelled $8.25M wrong.