It's Official

[activestick]

Time to call this a rebuild.  Cut loose the core and get whatever prospects, picks we can get in return.  I actually watched most of that brutal mess last night and was in awe.  This team has nothing.  Very little talent.  No snarl.  No fear factor. Extremely boring play.  Nothing.  Bust it up and start from scratch already.

 

I feel sorry for Hextall and Hakstol being handed this pile of garbage.

[pilldoc]

I feel sorry for Hextall and Hakstol being handed this pile of garbage.

 

yup..Homer really screwed this team.....

[activestick]

yup

[Samifan]

Time to call this a rebuild.  Cut loose the core and get whatever prospects, picks we can get in return.  I actually watched most of that brutal mess last night and was in awe.  This team has nothing.  Very little talent.  No snarl.  No fear factor. Extremely boring play.  Nothing.  Bust it up and start from scratch already.

 

I feel sorry for Hextall and Hakstol being handed this pile of garbage.

In addition to everything you mentioned, this team has NO HEART!

[activestick]

nope, none.

[Bertmega]

This team is bad, yes very bad, but the team the GM inherited was a playoff team. Seriously question, how long can we as fans blame Holmgren? I do not like a lot of moves he made trust me, but it's time for Hextall to put on his big boy pants and start making moves to solidify this team down the road. Yes re-building through the draft makes sense and all, but at what point do he actually start trading for roster players; ie ones that can play at the pro-level today?

[OccamsRazor]

This team is bad, yes very bad, but the team the GM inherited was a playoff team. Seriously question, how long can we as fans blame Holmgren? I do not like a lot of moves he made trust me, but it's time for Hextall to put on his big boy pants and start making moves to solidify this team down the road. Yes re-building through the draft makes sense and all, but at what point do he actually start trading for roster players; ie ones that can play at the pro-level today?

It's the 1st year with his new coach. He has had what 15 games to teach the way he wants things to be played. And evaluation is taking place as this is going on. It's not a quick process.

Forget everything that has taken place before this year. Wipe it clean it's a reboot.

Those moves will come. But i expect Hextall to make the right moves and not just make moves to just make moves.

This year is pretty much an evaluation year. They could figure it out soon or maybe not.

The good part for once it seems like the goaltending is in place.

Nice. Now they have to build from the net out.

I don't want to be Edmonton and force guys like Ghost, Morin, Hagg and other into action before they are ready.

But they will begin to trickle in soon in the future. When i can't say for sure.

But i feel your pain.

But if you don't want them to mortgage the future with old geezers for draft picks and you want to build through the draft this is what it takes.

I know it's foreign to Flyer fans but you have to go through it.

[pilldoc]

@Bertmega

 

I get what you are saying, but that playoff team was woefully outplayed by a Rangers team.  That Rangers team outskated that Flyers team by miles.

Seriously question, how long can we as fans blame Holmgren?

 

Good question....my answer..as long as it takes to move these horrible contracts and deals.

 

1) Bryz - what a disaster. Had to use one of the get out jail free cards

2) Briere - nice player, but a horrible contract.  Had to use the the other get out jail free card.

3) VLC - no sooner we rid ourselves of Bryz, but he goes out and signs a declining VLC to horrible contract.  This team is handcuffed until either he is bought out, traded, or flat out retires.

4) McDud - another horrible deal that is handcuffing this team.

5) Hexy had the right idea about Hartnell, but Dumberger has not played to his potential.  This one is on Hexy.  I get that Homer wanted to rid of Hartnell's contract.

6) Trading JVR for Luke Schenn

7) Signing Giroux to a 66 million dollart extension.  Giroux is a very good player, but I am starting to doubt he is that "elite" player whould demand this type of salary.

8) Speaking of Giroux, he had is best year when Jagr was with the team.  Not resigning him hurt this team more than not keeping him around for another year.

9) Mark Streit's 4 yr 21 million dollar deal at age 35!!!  Seriously?

10) going back to Hartnell..6 freaking years at 28.5 million.  No wonder Hexy moved the contract. Now granted Bumberger ™ is just as bad and that is on Hexy.

 

What has Hexy done....

 

1) He fleeced Boston for a 3rd Round Pick for Zac "i take stupid penalties at the werong time" Rindaldo.

2) Move Pronger's contract for Sam Gagner who I wish would get some more ice time.

3) Moved McDud to the Phantoms

 

Until some of these marginal players and their contracts disappear, Hexy's hands are tied.  Let's face reality here, VLC career is over and no-one wants him.  We are stuck with him. 

 

Trading for a legit LW is gonna cost. 

[pilldoc]

It's the 1st year with his new coach. He has had what 15 games to teach the way he wants things to be played. And evaluation is taking place as this is going on. It's not a quick process.

Forget everything that has taken place before this year. Wipe it clean it's a reboot.

Those moves will come. But i expect Hextall to make the right moves and not just make moves to just make moves.

This year is pretty much an evaluation year. They could figure it out soon or maybe not.

The good part for once it seems like the goaltending is in place.

Nice. Now they have to build from the net out.

I don't want to be Edmonton and force guys like Ghost, Morin, Hagg and other into action before they are ready.

But they will begin to trickle in soon in the future. When i can't say for sure.

But i feel your pain.

But if you don't want them to mortgage the future with old geezers for draft picks and you want to build through the draft this is what it takes.

I know it's foreign to Flyer fans but you have to go through it.

 

Pretty much sums up everything I did not mention in my post and agree with all.

 

I have said all along..the toughest thing is gonna be the patience to go through this and most Flyer fans will have the most trouble accepting this is what it is gonna take.

[Bertmega]

@OccamsRazor

 

They have been bad for too long and that's my problem with this team. The same crap we were seeing last year and the year before we are seeing again and again and again. The excuses need to stop. Produce or be gone. I thought Hackstol was supposed to be the guy that didn't play favorites, yet Raffl and his league shattering 2 points still is firmly planted on the 1st line. Same with Voracek. Maybe he could send a message since this is the "evaluation" year.

 

Making trades does not always mean trading prospects, picks and youth for and aging veteran. However, moving one of the 10,000 centers out for a competent wing to play with Giroux and Voracek might be a start. 

 

I have no problem with being bad as long as the slope is upwards. This is not the case with the Flyers. They are the same old same old. People want to blame Holmgren for some of these bad contracts that handcuff the team, well how about giving a career 20 goal guy a huge payday before he earned it? Even if Voracek tore the league up this year, how much more would he have cost this offseason? Gagner would have been off the books by that point to afford the extra cap space. Now we sit here watching Manning and Schenn crap the bed on a nightly basis and nothing can be done about it. Or how about stashing 5mm in the AHL only to put Laughton on the 4th line?

 

I am sorry but I do not see the logic here. This team is bad. Period and I don't see this changing anytime soon. And if me, the casual fan sees it, what do you think the Old Man Snider is saying? There will be change, trust me on that. 

[OccamsRazor]

most Flyer fans will have the most trouble accepting this is what it is gonna take.

Yes this is he major issue. I have only been watching since being introduced the year Lindros was brought in so it's all i can vouch for.

So since i have been watching the way they are going about this drafting well and actually holding onto the draft pick who aren't just forwards is foreign to me....never have i seen it done this way. I've heard stories of other organizations doing this stuff but just thought it was folklore.

So hey i'm tired of doing it the same old way that hasn't worked for my 25 years...so let's do it he presumed right way build your team through the draft and hold onto them through their growing pains so you can reap the rewards of what i hope are a Cup.

Will this happen not sure like i stated...never seen it done this way so i'm buckling in for he ride.

And it could be bumpy. I'll just close my eyes for most of it. Best i can do!

[pilldoc]

well how about giving a career 20 goal guy a huge payday before he earned it?

 

totally agree and I have no counter argument here

[OccamsRazor]

@OccamsRazor

 

They have been bad for too long and that's my problem with this team. The same crap we were seeing last year and the year before we are seeing again and again and again. The excuses need to stop. Produce or be gone. I thought Hackstol was supposed to be the guy that didn't play favorites, yet Raffl and his league shattering 2 points still is firmly planted on the 1st line. Same with Voracek. Maybe he could send a message since this is the "evaluation" year.

 

Making trades does not always mean trading prospects, picks and youth for and aging veteran. However, moving one of the 10,000 centers out for a competent wing to play with Giroux and Voracek might be a start. 

 

I have no problem with being bad as long as the slope is upwards. This is not the case with the Flyers. They are the same old same old. People want to blame Holmgren for some of these bad contracts that handcuff the team, well how about giving a career 20 goal guy a huge payday before he earned it? Even if Voracek tore the league up this year, how much more would he have cost this offseason? Gagner would have been off the books by that point to afford the extra cap space. Now we sit here watching Manning and Schenn crap the bed on a nightly basis and nothing can be done about it. Or how about stashing 5mm in the AHL only to put Laughton on the 4th line?

 

I am sorry but I do not see the logic here. This team is bad. Period and I don't see this changing anytime soon. And if me, the casual fan sees it, what do you think the Old Man Snider is saying? There will be change, trust me on that.

See my last post. He G and Jake contract i hope will not come back to bite them....

[Bertmega]

@Bertmega

 

I get what you are saying, but that playoff team was woefully outplayed by a Rangers team.  That Rangers team outskated that Flyers team by miles.

 

 

 

Good question....my answer..as long as it takes to move these horrible contracts and deals.

 

1) Bryz - what a disaster. Had to use one of the get out jail free cards

2) Briere - nice player, but a horrible contract.  Had to use the the other get out jail free card.

3) VLC - no sooner we rid ourselves of Bryz, but he goes out and signs a declining VLC to horrible contract.  This team is handcuffed until either he is bought out, traded, or flat out retires.

4) McDud - another horrible deal that is handcuffing this team.

5) Hexy had the right idea about Hartnell, but Dumberger has not played to his potential.  This one is on Hexy.  I get that Homer wanted to rid of Hartnell's contract.

6) Trading JVR for Luke Schenn

7) Signing Giroux to a 66 million dollart extension.  Giroux is a very good player, but I am starting to doubt he is that "elite" player whould demand this type of salary.

8) Speaking of Giroux, he had is best year when Jagr was with the team.  Not resigning him hurt this team more than not keeping him around for another year.

9) Mark Streit's 4 yr 21 million dollar deal at age 35!!!  Seriously?

10) going back to Hartnell..6 freaking years at 28.5 million.  No wonder Hexy moved the contract. Now granted Bumberger  is just as bad and that is on Hexy.

 

What has Hexy done....

 

1) He fleeced Boston for a 3rd Round Pick for Zac "i take stupid penalties at the werong time" Rindaldo.

2) Move Pronger's contract for Sam Gagner who I wish would get some more ice time.

3) Moved McDud to the Phantoms

 

Until some of these marginal players and their contracts disappear, Hexy's hands are tied.  Let's face reality here, VLC career is over and no-one wants him.  We are stuck with him. 

 

Trading for a legit LW is gonna cost. 

I agree with most of what you are saying, but in all fairness the Flyers took the Rangers to game 7 and did this with their back-up playing 50% of the time. Sending MacDonald to the Phantoms really only granted them limited cap space (if I am correct...) And he is better than Manning, he has to be. The only reason he was sent down is because nobody would dare touch that contract and it let them ice Laughton, who for some reason the coach feels is suited for the 4th line. 

I agree Holmgren was not the best at managing his checkbook and the VLC and MacDonald moves/signing has to be among the worst in Flyers history. 

A competent LW may cost a few roster players, but it may be worth it. Think of it this way, do they really want to wait 3-4 years while their 65 million dollar 1st line is doing nothing?

[murraycraven]

Bertmega, on 11 Nov 2015 - 10:16 AM, said:

@OccamsRazor

They have been bad for too long and that's my problem with this team. The same crap we were seeing last year and the year before we are seeing again and again and again. The excuses need to stop. Produce or be gone. I thought Hackstol was supposed to be the guy that didn't play favorites, yet Raffl and his league shattering 2 points still is firmly planted on the 1st line. Same with Voracek. Maybe he could send a message since this is the "evaluation" year.

Making trades does not always mean trading prospects, picks and youth for and aging veteran. However, moving one of the 10,000 centers out for a competent wing to play with Giroux and Voracek might be a start.

I have no problem with being bad as long as the slope is upwards. This is not the case with the Flyers. They are the same old same old. People want to blame Holmgren for some of these bad contracts that handcuff the team, well how about giving a career 20 goal guy a huge payday before he earned it? Even if Voracek tore the league up this year, how much more would he have cost this offseason? Gagner would have been off the books by that point to afford the extra cap space. Now we sit here watching Manning and Schenn crap the bed on a nightly basis and nothing can be done about it. Or how about stashing 5mm in the AHL only to put Laughton on the 4th line?

I am sorry but I do not see the logic here. This team is bad. Period and I don't see this changing anytime soon. And if me, the casual fan sees it, what do you think the Old Man Snider is saying? There will be change, trust me on that.

as rad says it is getting time for Hextall and the players to "put up or shut up..."

At doc... if you are saying that Hartnell and Umberger are similar players I completely disagree. One of them is a total has-been that was injured when traded and on a slippery slope to being bought out. The other is actually a top line winger who can score points and plays w/ heart.

As for MacDud - let's not pretend Hextall is a genius for sending him to the AHL. In fact he had to send him to the AHL due to the cap.

[pilldoc]

At doc... if you are saying that Hartnell and Umberger are similar players I completely disagree

 

No that is not my intent....  if it came across that way, I apologize.  I simply was saying I get that Hexy wanted to trade one bad contract for another and trying to save a year in the process.  It had nothing to do with player abilities.  Sorry for the confusion.

[brelic]

as rad says it is getting time for Hextall and the players to "put up or shut up..."

 

 

How so? Why does he have to compromise his long term vision just 15 games into a season with his coach? He's been active over the past year since he took over, slowly reshaping the roster, getting rid of the deadweight he can, and making smart draft picks. 

 

It's a multi-year project. It sucks as a fan. He's been dealt a number of cards, and building the team he wants will take time.

 

 

 

As for MacDud - let's not pretend Hextall is a genius for sending him to the AHL. In fact he had to send him to the AHL due to the cap.

 

It's not a genius move, it's a ballsy one. Homer would not have done that.

[murraycraven]

How so? Why does he have to compromise his long term vision just 15 games into a season with his coach? He's been active over the past year since he took over, slowly reshaping the roster, getting rid of the deadweight he can, and making smart draft picks. 

 

It's a multi-year project. It sucks as a fan. He's been dealt a number of cards, and building the team he wants will take time.

 

 

 

 

It's not a genius move, it's a ballsy one. Homer would not have done that.

 

 

We all suspect that it is "part of the plan" brel and I do believe that but we have no idea what is going on inside those doors.   MacDud was a ballsy move but one that had to be made and I find it hard to believe that MacDud is not going to be back in the O&B when the cap is a bit more settled.  This is nearly an identical roster to last years team so while it is a slow process he really has only been able to tinker.   

 

He moved a top line left wing for a year of a contract and signed Jake to a bloated contract that most believe is way too much - again, we will see.   When Hextall has the cap room to work with we will see how he is as a GM - until then it is "wait and see" IMO.   

[brelic]

We all suspect that it is "part of the plan" brel and I do believe that but we have no idea what is going on inside those doors.  

 

Exactly. Especially with Hextall - he runs a pretty tight ship when it comes to rumours and having information floating around before he says so. I like that.

 

So, apparently the Carter deal took something like 18 months, didn't it? I'm sure he has a lot of lines in the water, and getting feelers for what and how he could make some moves. Sometimes the best move is no move until something comes along that definitely makes your team better - now or later.

 

MacDud was a ballsy move but one that had to be made and I find it hard to believe that MacDud is not going to be back in the O&B when the cap is a bit more settled.

 

You're probably right. Still, it was a ballsy move that Homer would not have made, which means MacDud would be on the roster, and Laughton would be in the A. I think Laughton is at the age and experience where he will learn more things in the NHL now. So, to me, that's a net benefit.

[murraycraven]

Exactly. Especially with Hextall - he runs a pretty tight ship when it comes to rumours and having information floating around before he says so. I like that.

 

So, apparently the Carter deal took something like 18 months, didn't it? I'm sure he has a lot of lines in the water, and getting feelers for what and how he could make some moves. Sometimes the best move is no move until something comes along that definitely makes your team better - now or later.

 

 

 

 

You're probably right. Still, it was a ballsy move that Homer would not have made, which means MacDud would be on the roster, and Laughton would be in the A. I think Laughton is at the age and experience where he will learn more things in the NHL now. So, to me, that's a net benefit.

 

 

I have no problem with where we are at b/c I truly expected this team to be bad.  I never really believed they were a playoff team but what does concern me is some of the trends like the slow starts, heartless play and just flat out malaise for which they play the game.  This team has been handicapped by the ghost of Homer and I don't think anyone can argue that.

 

At some point there needs to be some inkling of the plan moving forward.   We will know more once the prospects start getting their fair share of time w/ the big club.   Until then I think most are just frustrated with actually having to go through the process - thanks again Homer! 

[briere48]

the biggest problem with this team is the chemistry, they are so many players that just dont fit. as good as courturier at defense, he's not a offensive forward, he doesnt belong on the second line. he belongs on the third line. the first two lines need offensive players. we dont have a first and second line offensive left wingers and offensive second line center. we have an offensive right wingers in jake and gagner, they should be kept there.

 

on defense, it's a mess, they need to get rid of schenn, schulz, gudas and streit. they need to sign or trade for 3 two way right handed defensemen, keep medvedev, bring up sanheim, provorov, morin, ghost, whoever is ready to play on the left side.

 

it's alot but that's how bad this team is right now and until hextall fills the right postions on this team, this team is going to continue playing incosistent because there's so many holes on this team.

 

you need players that fit and they dont have them.

[flyercanuck]

@briere48

 

The biggest problem with your "Biggest problem series" is that you have a completely different biggest problem every week that varies from "we need fast Euros" to "bigger tougher" to  "coaching" to whatever. 

 

The biggest problem is a lack of talent. The defence is outright hideous. Then there's VLC/Umberger. Then there's no top line LW. And so on from there. 

 

Sanheim and Provorov are juniors. You can't bring them up. Morin and Ghost aren't exactly lighting up the A...I doubt either is ready to play against better competition.

[murraycraven]

@FC

 

 

[briere48]

@briere48

 

The biggest problem with your "Biggest problem series" is that you have a completely different biggest problem every week that varies from "we need fast Euros" to "bigger tougher" to  "coaching" to whatever. 

 

The biggest problem is a lack of talent. The defence is outright hideous. Then there's VLC/Umberger. Then there's no top line LW. And so on from there. 

 

Sanheim and Provorov are juniors. You can't bring them up. Morin and Ghost aren't exactly lighting up the A...I doubt either is ready to play against better competition.

 

 if you dont like my ideas fine but do you have a better plan that can make this team better?

[murraycraven]

 if you dont like my ideas fine but do you have a better plan that can make this team better?

 

 

briere, you have to admit you open every post with the "problem is that"...

 

it is true... just look.