Center Options for next season

[icehole]

37 minutes ago, JR Ewing said:

Couturier's Points per 60 minutes this year is 2.12, while Giroux's is 1.69... He has the best Scoring Chances per 60, best Scoring Chance +/-, the best High Danger Chances per 60 (while simultaneously giving up the least), the Flyers score more goal while he's on the ice than any other forward, and all with him having the toughest zone starts...

 

But his offense is a problem?

 

Huh?

 

27 points.  I don't care why he has 27 and never reached 40, but it is what it is in year 5.

[icehole]

38 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

So i have a question that needs to be answered....so who is this elusive "2nd line center" you want to move Coots for...i'm dying to hear your bench mark.

 

Thanks i wait for your response.

I'll tell you exactly who it is...who ever a good GM can find.  That GM isn't me.

[icehole]

34 minutes ago, Podein25 said:

 

I don't even know what the hell this means? It's like your speaking in tongues. 

You seriously don't know what that means?  If you never make a trade, guys either retire or they are dead weight.  Wouldn't you want to get something in return for something that has value?

[JR Ewing]

3 minutes ago, icehole said:

27 points.  I don't care why he has 27 and never reached 40, but it is what it is in year 5.

 

Please join any fantasy hockey league I'm in. I need you around.

 

[icehole]

26 minutes ago, murraycraven said:

 

If Couts played 1st line minutes and was in an offensive role he would score 40+ goals a year.  

You missed a 0.  400 goals is more like it.

[radoran]

4 minutes ago, AJgoal said:

I think we've pretty much seen the lineup at the start of next year in bits and pieces over the last month or so as players have been in and out with injuries:

 

Voracek  - Giroux - Simmonds

Raffl - Couturier - Schenn

Laughton - Cousins - Read

Vandevelde - Bellemare - Weal

 

Umberger

 

Maybe Voracek/Simmonds and Schenn swap. but otherwise I think it's pretty close to the way they will move forward next year. I'd be pretty ok with that look.

 

Just to quibble (), I think they will likely re-sign White. I haven't really seen enough of Weal to get any good feel for him as a player. I'm also totally unsold on Cousins.

 

But the weak link in that lineup, for me, is Read - if he doesn't regain his 20-goal form. I'd rather look at getting a top six forward and move Raffl down to 3.

 

Just now, icehole said:

I'll tell you exactly who it is...who ever a good GM can find.  That GM isn't me.

 

So, essentially, the grass is always greener?

 

Especially over the septic tank.

 

 

It's really not that hard a question. Unless your focus is simply "there have to be better birds in that bush than the one I have in hand."

[icehole]

27 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

You haven't figured out anything.

 

I'm not at all "scared" of making trades. I would trade anyone on the roster for the right deal. But it has to be the right deal.

 

Now, I've asked you several times on different threads WHAT your potential trade is. You have NEVER answered the question.

 

I'm happy to listen. WHO do you want to trade Couturier for? WHAT is "the right deal" here?

 

 

Now we're verging on "Crater will score 60" and "Nodl will outscore Jagr" territory

I believe I answered you many times.  Just because I'm a fan of the flyers and post on a forum, that doesn't make me a GM.  Hextall should be able to figure something out right.  Unless you're saying that nobody is better than Couturier...is that what you're saying?

[AJgoal]

1 minute ago, radoran said:

 

Just to quibble (), I think they will likely re-sign White. I haven't really seen enough of Weal to get any good feel for him as a player. I'm also totally unsold on Cousins.

 

But the weak link in that lineup, for me, is Read - if he doesn't regain his 20-goal form. I'd rather look at getting a top six forward and move Raffl down to 3.

 

 

Entirely possible they bring back White. I'm definitely not opposed to it. I do think Weal is either in the lineup next season, or he's traded for something. Guy won't pass through waivers after the season he had in the AHL last year - some GM will find it hard to pass up on his potential.

 

I'd be more comfortable with someone else on the 2nd line over Raffl. Maybe Laughton can take a stride in that direction. I can understand being unsold on Cousins, as well. And we've both discussed Read's struggles over the course of the year... I'm just not sure the Flyers are quite ready to make those couple moves. I think my biggest hope is that Leier/Lindblom can come in and run with the 2nd line LW role. If that happens, that really solidifies the top 6.

[radoran]

11 minutes ago, icehole said:

I believe I answered you many times.  Just because I'm a fan of the flyers and post on a forum, that doesn't make me a GM.  Hextall should be able to figure something out right.  Unless you're saying that nobody is better than Couturier...is that what you're saying?

 

Hextall signed Couturier for six years (starting next season) and they put him into the second line center role. That's what the NHL GM of the Flyers did.

 

Is Hextall therefore saying that nobody is better than Couturier?

 

I'm saying that, for lack of a better option making itself immediately available, I'm comfortable with them seeing if Couturier continues his progression and development.

 

And that if you expect Hextall to be out there beating the bushes trying to get rid of Couturier, you're likely going to be disappointed.

[pilldoc]

48 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

Now we're verging on "Crater will score 60" and "Nodl will outscore Jagr" territory

 

oh dear lord....lets not go down that road again....

[pilldoc]

37 minutes ago, AJgoal said:

I think we've pretty much seen the lineup at the start of next year in bits and pieces over the last month or so as players have been in and out with injuries:

 

Voracek  - Giroux - Simmonds

Raffl - Couturier - Schenn

Laughton - Cousins - Read

Vandevelde - Bellemare - Weal

 

Umberger

 

Maybe Voracek/Simmonds and Schenn swap. but otherwise I think it's pretty close to the way they will move forward next year. I'd be pretty ok with that look.

 

Unless of course Konecny totally "Wows" everyone at camp and makes the team.  My gut says he goes back to Juniors for 1 more year.  Ideally would love to see him in the AHL with the Phantoms, but because of his age and that, IMO, stupid AHL age rule ...it is either Flyers or Juniors for Konecny.

[Bertmega]

Isn't Schenn the elusive 2nd line center that you are searching for?

 

Center is not the issue on this team, having secondary scoring from the wing appears to be the issue. Or at least from where I am sitting it is.....

[AJgoal]

2 minutes ago, Bertmega said:

Isn't Schenn the elusive 2nd line center that you are searching for?

 

Center is not the issue on this team, having secondary scoring from the wing appears to be the issue. Or at least from where I am sitting it is.....

 

Schenn's been having most of his success on the wing. I wouldn't try to transition him back to center.

[Bertmega]

3 minutes ago, AJgoal said:

 

Schenn's been having most of his success on the wing. I wouldn't try to transition him back to center.

Good Point. 

2nd: Couturier 

3rd: Laughton

4th: White

 

 

[icehole]

24 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

Hextall signed Couturier for six years (starting next season) and they put him into the second line center role. That's what the NHL GM of the Flyers did.

 

Is Hextall therefore saying that nobody is better than Couturier?

 

I'm saying that, for lack of a better option making itself immediately available, I'm comfortable with them seeing if Couturier continues his progression and development.

 

And that if you expect Hextall to be out there beating the bushes trying to get rid of Couturier, you're likely going to be disappointed.

I would be greatly disappointed because it's his job as GM to be making calls about everyone.  As you said a little bit ago, you're open to a deal for anyone.  How do those deals get done?  Does hextall just wait for phone calls, or is he making some calls also?  If he is, does he say "do you want umberger?  Do you want vandevelde?  Do you want bellemare?"  They say they want couturier and he hangs up?

How did that nashville/Columbus deal go down?  Were those two bad players that their current teams didn't want on the roster?  No, they are two young talented players that had to be dealt to make their current teams better at a position.

[pilldoc]

1 hour ago, icehole said:

I'll tell you exactly who it is...who ever a good GM can find.  That GM isn't me.

 

1 hour ago, icehole said:

I believe I answered you many times.  Just because I'm a fan of the flyers and post on a forum, that doesn't make me a GM.  Hextall should be able to figure something out right.  Unless you're saying that nobody is better than Couturier...is that what you're saying?

 

You are right you are not a GM, BUT you are am member of this forum.  It is not unreasonable to expect that if you throw a comment out that XXXX player be traded, at least have some idea what you want in return and be able to discuss it (that is what a forum is for) either rightly or wrongly.  None of us have all the answers.  I have been a hockey fan for over 35+ years and one of the original members of this forum from Day 1 and you know what ... I still learn alot from some of the more knowledgable posters on here.

 

So yeah if @radoran asks you who should you trade, be prepared to discuss and not make such a generic statement that.."well I dunno I'm not the GM"  That does not help in the discussion and only results in more members gettting frustrated with you.

 

As far as Hexy / Coots / and the further development of Coots / and trades.  We don't know what goes on behind closed doors.  Maybe a traded was discussed (though I highly doubt it) and maybe Hexy did not like the return.  Maybe he looked at the pending FA's past and future and decided no one would fit the current chemistry of this team or would cost this team too much in terms of $$$$ and or players/draft picks/prospects.

 

 At the present time, Coots is a member of this team and has the right coach in Hakstol to help further help his development.    For the time being I trust Hexy >>>>> Homer and Hakstol >>>>>>> Berube.    It has been shown over and over that Coots is NOT the problem with this team.

 

 

[radoran]

1 minute ago, icehole said:

I would be greatly disappointed because it's his job as GM to be making calls about everyone.  As you said a little bit ago, you're open to a deal for anyone.  How do those deals get done?  Does hextall just wait for phone calls, or is he making some calls also?  If he is, does he say "do you want umberger?  Do you want vandevelde?  Do you want bellemare?"  They say they want couturier and he hangs up?

How did that nashville/Columbus deal go down?  Were those two bad players that their current teams didn't want on the roster?  No, they are two young talented players that had to be dealt to make their current teams better at a position.

 

I expect that Hextall is listening. I just don't think he's on the phone trying to deal Couturier. And I don't expect that Hextall looks at Couturier as "a problem" after signing him for six years and seeing his production jump from .43 ppg to .57 ppg in one year.

 

Columbus, on the other hand, was at the end of their ropes with Johansen who was unmotivated and lackadaisical. He was unhappy with his bridge deal, had been a healthy scratch and had seen time on the fourth line. They wanted to deal him and were actively shopping him. Nashville has desperately needed a top line center since the franchise was founded and were happy to deal from their defensive strength (Weber/Josi) to take a shot at Johansen being that guy.

 

So, yes, Columbus didn't want Johansen on their roster.

 

[pilldoc]

8 minutes ago, radoran said:

. They wanted to deal him and were actively shopping him. Nashville has desperately needed a top line center since the franchise was founded and were happy to deal from their defensive strength (Weber/Josi) to take a shot at Johansen being that guy.

 

So, yes, Columbus didn't want Johansen on their roster.

 

 

Exactly!!!   This!!!  The Flyers are not actively shopping Coots nor should they be.....  You can't compare with what NSH/Columbus did to the Flyers...you just can't.  Totally different situations and to make that assumption would be shortsighted thinking.

[radoran]

34 minutes ago, pilldoc said:

 

Exactly!!!   This!!!  The Flyers are not actively shopping Coots nor should they be.....  You can't compare with what NSH/Columbus did to the Flyers...you just can't.  Totally different situations and to make that assumption would be shortsighted thinking.

 

And if someone makes a legitimate offer for Couturier, I'm listening. And I'll wager Hextall is, too.

 

But I seriously doubt he's calling the other 29 GMs to offer them Couturier and I doubt he's "looking" for another second line center having just seen a significant increase in production from a player he just committed six years to.

 

For that matter, there just aren't a boatload of second line centers out there that other teams want to deal that are significantly better than Couturier.

[JR Ewing]

37 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

And if someone makes a legitimate offer for Couturier, I'm listening. And I'll wager Hextall is, too.

 

But I seriously doubt he's calling the other 29 GMs to offer them Couturier and I doubt he's "looking" for another second line center having just seen a significant increase in production from a player he just committed six years to.

 

For that matter, there just aren't a boatload of second line centers out there that other teams want to deal that are significantly better than Couturier.

 

This is especially the case when the contract (IMO) represents good value. Couturier, like all players, is not perfect, but is part of the answer in Philly, not the problem. Ron Hextall has much bigger fish to fry.

 

[peter puck]

@icehole

Im interested in how you came up with the idea that couturier is untouchable?

Is it simply because he hasn't been traded?

This is hockey forum we all get to play gm. We even get to pick the team we want to be gm of.

Sooo I'm gm of Flyers you are gm of team of your choice. I'm offering you Couturier.What exactly are you willing to give me in return? I know it's all fantasy but let's be a little realistic in our choice. I'm really not interested in just what you'd offer but what others think too. It could be an interesting list of proposals.

[Podein25]

1 hour ago, JR Ewing said:

part of the answer in Philly, not the problem

 

That's nicely stated. 

[icehole]

4 hours ago, radoran said:

 

I could more easily see them signing a UFA than making a deal in this situation.

 

If Backes, for example, gets to test the market at the FA level, I wouldn't mind them taking a good look. You could create essentially a 2a and 2b line situation. And I very much like depth scoring. I wouldn't break the bank on him, though. His $4.5M is pretty much in line with a 20/50 guy. If they could get him for a $5M or so number...

 

But, again, Couturier's salary is fairly solid now and will likely be a real value by the end of the deal even if he simply keeps up a .57 ppg average.

 

That said, if they can pull off a deal for a Taylor Hall, I'd seriously consider it.

Wait a second here.  I want to sign FAs and I get killed "you can't waste money on FA...that's something homer would do".  Then I bring up Taylor hall last night because I thought he was a center and I get beat down again.

Now, after you disagree with everything I say, you have the same ideas?

People just like to argue every point I make because I don't like the chosen one.  Open your minds a little...I may actually make sense once in a while.

[icehole]

3 hours ago, Bertmega said:

Isn't Schenn the elusive 2nd line center that you are searching for?

 

Center is not the issue on this team, having secondary scoring from the wing appears to be the issue. Or at least from where I am sitting it is.....

Schenn is supposed to play center, but it seems like he's only been appreciated when he plays wing.  I don't see why they'd put him back at center.

[icehole]

3 hours ago, pilldoc said:

 

 

You are right you are not a GM, BUT you are am member of this forum.  It is not unreasonable to expect that if you throw a comment out that XXXX player be traded, at least have some idea what you want in return and be able to discuss it (that is what a forum is for) either rightly or wrongly.  None of us have all the answers.  I have been a hockey fan for over 35+ years and one of the original members of this forum from Day 1 and you know what ... I still learn alot from some of the more knowledgable posters on here.

 

So yeah if @radoran asks you who should you trade, be prepared to discuss and not make such a generic statement that.."well I dunno I'm not the GM"  That does not help in the discussion and only results in more members gettting frustrated with you.

 

As far as Hexy / Coots / and the further development of Coots / and trades.  We don't know what goes on behind closed doors.  Maybe a traded was discussed (though I highly doubt it) and maybe Hexy did not like the return.  Maybe he looked at the pending FA's past and future and decided no one would fit the current chemistry of this team or would cost this team too much in terms of $$$$ and or players/draft picks/prospects.

 

 At the present time, Coots is a member of this team and has the right coach in Hakstol to help further help his development.    For the time being I trust Hexy >>>>> Homer and Hakstol >>>>>>> Berube.    It has been shown over and over that Coots is NOT the problem with this team.

 

 

Oh I expect it, but that doesn't make it right.

I know who it want...McDavid. Seems unreasonable right?  How do you know though?  Has edmonton ever traded away a star?  Has chiarelli ever traded away a young star?  Are you at the desk with Hextall making phone calls?  Maybe hexy has incriminating evidence.

My point is we can make suggestions all we want.  We don't need specifics but we can say that we want something better than what we have.  It's not like I'm telling Hextall what to do.