flyercanuck Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 4 minutes ago, JJMason33 said: I would just like to say this isn't like Clarke and Homer mortgaging the future... What I am saying is make the move to win now. While everyone may wish to have all these guys on your blue-line, but it just cant happen for several reasons. First, there is only so much ice-time to go around. You will be robbing these guys of their chance to shine. Secondly, by year 3-4 your going to have all of your salary on your blue-line. We have 4 guys capable of being top 2 defenseman. Would it so terrible to have 3 defenseman capable of being top 2 d-men and having a winger capable of being a perennial all-star? Making the move to win now IS Clarke and Homer. Konecny could be a perennial allstar. So we deal, let's say Sanheim for a winger. The winger busts. Sanheim wins the Norris. Great move? I'd prefer to see what we have before dumping them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 17 minutes ago, JJMason33 said: . Secondly, by year 3-4 your going to have all of your salary on your blue-line What is wrong with that??? Defensemen are worth their weight in gold and teams don't trade the good ones unless it's for a King's ransom and hey when that said day arrives and the Flyers need to make a decision like that they can make it then. But no sense in moving these kid before they even arrive and you know exactly what you have. And yes moving these prospect is exactly what Homer would do. And i myself and tired of that crap. Sure it is a nice talent pool but only one and that is Ghost is in the NHL. It would be nice to have some of these kids on entry level or bridge deals for a couple years i think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 45 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: And yes moving these prospect is exactly what Homer would do. And i myself and tired of that crap AMEN!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonJeremy Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 @sarsipius...Girouxs numbers have gone down the last 2 years... @FlyerCanuck.as far as Sanheim being the Norris Trophy winner for Tampa, when I mentioned Drouin for Sanheim, that's just an example, if Drouin scored 40 goals for us would that be so bad. if Sanheim is ended up being great it's not a mistake as long as the guy we got was great too. When we traded a big scorer,Mark Recchi we got back a great dman in Desjardins and we lucked out with Leclair as the throw in. If it was Recchi straight up for Desjardins , you would say that was an even trade each team addressed a need. So if Sanheim is that great , then trading him for the second or third pick is not out of the question. With every trade that is made ,there's always a risk one guy turns out better, but you just hope our GM and scouts do the right thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howie58 Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 I agree with FC that it wouldn't be worth giving to prospects to get one. That said, I was unclear about Morin--is he a reclamation project or is he a real prospect? We need someone fairly beefy. Is Sanheim a big enough dude? This draft will say a lot about the prospects. If there's a relative absence of d-men and goalies, we know the score--they see the future with this gang. Will one or two of them go, well, probably. But is that because they will be traded...or because they really don't gel? I know we speak highly of the three-four drafts....will all of them pass muster? I do not see Homer-like behavior from Hexy and current gang. I also think Snider's death reinforces that. Comcast wants a return on its investment, and that means winning in the New NHL. The exciting thing as a long-time fan is that with a rebuilt forward complement--we can re-enter elite status. It looks like the D is working. Goal is adequate. Now we need some more consistent 20 goal scores in our middle lines. Howie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 59 minutes ago, RonJeremy said: @sarsipius...Girouxs numbers have gone down the last 2 years... @FlyerCanuck.as far as Sanheim being the Norris Trophy winner for Tampa, when I mentioned Drouin for Sanheim, that's just an example, if Drouin scored 40 goals for us would that be so bad. if Sanheim is ended up being great it's not a mistake as long as the guy we got was great too. When we traded a big scorer,Mark Recchi we got back a great dman in Desjardins and we lucked out with Leclair as the throw in. If it was Recchi straight up for Desjardins , you would say that was an even trade each team addressed a need. So if Sanheim is that great , then trading him for the second or third pick is not out of the question. With every trade that is made ,there's always a risk one guy turns out better, but you just hope our GM and scouts do the right thing Right. And I think the right thing was picking Sanheim. He's like a 6'4" version of Gostisbehere. You want to trade that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 51 minutes ago, Howie58 said: I agree with FC that it wouldn't be worth giving to prospects to get one. That said, I was unclear about Morin--is he a reclamation project or is he a real prospect? We need someone fairly beefy. Is Sanheim a big enough dude? This draft will say a lot about the prospects. If there's a relative absence of d-men and goalies, we know the score--they see the future with this gang. Will one or two of them go, well, probably. But is that because they will be traded...or because they really don't gel? I know we speak highly of the three-four drafts....will all of them pass muster? I do not see Homer-like behavior from Hexy and current gang. I also think Snider's death reinforces that. Comcast wants a return on its investment, and that means winning in the New NHL. The exciting thing as a long-time fan is that with a rebuilt forward complement--we can re-enter elite status. It looks like the D is working. Goal is adequate. Now we need some more consistent 20 goal scores in our middle lines. Howie Is Morin a reclamation project? He's 20. Sanheim is 6'4". And 20. Just. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 11 minutes ago, flyercanuck said: Right. And I think the right thing was picking Sanheim. He's like a 6'4" version of Gostisbehere. You want to trade that? I dont get the trade Sanheim thing at all... Outside of Provorov Sanheim is the last prospect I would look to trade in all honestly. The kid has a chance to be a real special player... Unless we are getting a King's Ransom this kid is not even to be discussed in potential trades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 For once can we just develop our top prospects instead of shipping them off....serioulsy..I agree with MC and FC. Sanheim / Provorov / Meyers / Morin / Ghost are all off limits. PERIOD end of story .. unless as MC put it.. "we are getting a kings ransom" Can you imagine our blue line in a few years with these guys....the Flyers will be a **tch to play against. If fans want top end offensive talent then it would have behooved the Flyers to have missed the playoffs this year. Everyone knew they just did not have the talent for a long playoff run. Now some want to trade our deep defensive prospects for offensive prospects because of where the Flyers will be picking. We can't have it both ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 3 hours ago, flyercanuck said: Is Morin a reclamation project? He's 20. Sanheim is 6'4". And 20. Just. And to piggyback on this Sam barely made the age limit meaning it's almost like getting Morin AND Sanheim in the same draft! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howie58 Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 FC + Occam: I used the wrong term with Morin..perhaps diamond-in-the-rough...always thought he was more of a risk than other draftees given size and style. H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 2 hours ago, Howie58 said: FC + Occam: I used the wrong term with Morin..perhaps diamond-in-the-rough...always thought he was more of a risk than other draftees given size and style. H He's a project...it'll take time for him to get control of that gangly body he has. it's filling out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claude Monet Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 I will be livid if Sanheim is traded. I personally saw him turn a game around from being down 3-0 to winning in OT 4-3. He is the real deal. the only reason Bean is being talked so highly is because of his partner. Take a guess who. Stay the F'ing course!!! The Flyers are really on to something right now, finally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 5 hours ago, Claude Monet said: I will be livid if Sanheim is traded. I personally saw him turn a game around from being down 3-0 to winning in OT 4-3. He is the real deal. the only reason Bean is being talked so highly is because of his partner. Take a guess who. Stay the F'ing course!!! The Flyers are really on to something right now, finally. It's amazing how good a pairing can look when you've got 2 really good players. The Flyers could have that soon. They might even end up with TWO really good pairings. It's possible they end up with THREE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonJeremy Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 The reason I mentioned Sanheim in a trade in the first place was to try and land a top 3 or 4 pick in this draft so we can get a big scoring winger. My reasoning was, Provo and Ghost are offensive types and we will not trade them for sure and Sanheim is also an offensive guy and has the most trade value. I'm not dying to trade him, I'm just being realistic that if we tried to land a high pick he's probably the guy we would have to trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 1 minute ago, RonJeremy said: The reason I mentioned Sanheim in a trade in the first place was to try and land a top 3 or 4 pick in this draft so we can get a big scoring winger. My reasoning was, Provo and Ghost are offensive types and we will not trade them for sure and Sanheim is also an offensive guy and has the most trade value. I'm not dying to trade him, I'm just being realistic that if we tried to land a high pick he's probably the guy we would have to trade. Provorov is great at either end of the rink and likely has the most value of the three. It's a lot easier to find wingers than defencemen...as we Flyer fans well know. Trading potential top pairing Dmen for wingers makes no sense. If I'm trading any of our bluechip defence, it's for a centre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 1 hour ago, flyercanuck said: It's amazing how good a pairing can look when you've got 2 really good players. I can only dream of which you speak. The best duo i have ever seen as a Flyer fan was Kimmo and Coburn. I'll let you think about for a minute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 7 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: I can only dream of which you speak. The best duo i have ever seen as a Flyer fan was Kimmo and Coburn. I'll let you think about for a minute. In all fairness, they were pretty damn good for a few years. (better than McDud and Therien Howe and MacCrimmon for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 1 minute ago, flyercanuck said: In all fairness, they were pretty damn good for a few years. (better than McDud and Therien Howe and MacCrimmon for me. Yes they were but sadly it is my benchmark. The Flyer's blueline in my years have been a lot of patch work back there. None really drafted. The only one i remember is Joni. Could of had John Carlson. Instead we get Eminger. But hard to root for the Flyers defensemen. Or even worse Kevin Marshall. I mean they have a great crop now but it has always been like that just look back several years before landing these guys... drafted Kevin Marshall, Luca Sbisa, Marc-Andre Bourdon, Simon Bertilsson, Oliver Lauridsen, Nick Luukko, Ricard Blidstrand and Colin Sullentrop just to finally hit on Ghost. And that was just going back to 2007. You get the point so yes finally let draft them and actually hold onto them to reap the reward not someone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 I remember when they drafted Sullentrop and thinking "why"? There's guys on MY team that have as much chance of making the NHL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 19 hours ago, pilldoc said: For once can we just develop our top prospects instead of shipping them off....serioulsy..I agree with MC and FC. Sanheim / Provorov / Meyers / Morin / Ghost are all off limits. PERIOD end of story .. unless as MC put it.. "we are getting a kings ransom" Can you imagine our blue line in a few years with these guys....the Flyers will be a **tch to play against. If fans want top end offensive talent then it would have behooved the Flyers to have missed the playoffs this year. Everyone knew they just did not have the talent for a long playoff run. Now some want to trade our deep defensive prospects for offensive prospects because of where the Flyers will be picking. We can't have it both ways. and let me just say this... i was watching Provorov last night and that kid is a bona-fide superstar in the waiting. Scary smart player with all of the tools... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJMason33 Posted May 24, 2016 Author Share Posted May 24, 2016 Lets not forget the topic of this thread and how the expansion draft effects these decisions. Next season Morin and Ghost have to be protected. And when they do another expansion the next year you will only be able to protect 3 out of Morin, Sanheim, Provorov, and Ghost. Unless you keep Provorov in the Juniors for another year. It's not like those of us advocating for a trade are asking to trade "All our top prospects". And we are definitely not saying to trade them for some "all-star" on a huge contract. We are saying trade 1 of the 4 we have to give us offensive talent. In the past the Flyers would trade players like Sbisa, Pitkanen, and Niinimaa early, but the difference is back then there was nothing in the pipeline to replace those guys. Now is different because if you trade 1 guy, you still have 3 others... possibly 4 that are about equal. And you can also hold onto guys that play a part of veteran leadership like Del Zotto, Gudas, and Manning. I keep hearing that if you hold onto this defense we will be scary in a few years. Not true. Just because you can hold a team to 1-2 goals does not mean your going to win. Especially if you cant score more than 1 goal. Look at Nashville. They are a great example of a team having amazing defensive prospects, that turn into amazing players, but can't win to save their lives. Heck, they lost Suter and how many others. You have to be able to ice a well rounded team. Not just one stacked in defense and goalie. That is why I say make a move for this Laine kid. I'm ok with losing Schenn and Morin for him. Even Schenn and Sanheim if need be. Schenn is going to cost us big money soon. Not Giroux money, but the longer we eat into his UFA years the worse its going to be. I'm guessing 5-6.5 depending on the years. He just isn't a 6.5 million a year player IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJMason33 Posted May 24, 2016 Author Share Posted May 24, 2016 42 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: I can only dream of which you speak. The best duo i have ever seen as a Flyer fan was Kimmo and Coburn. I'll let you think about for a minute. I liked Pronger and Carle, and Kimmo-Coburn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 4 minutes ago, JJMason33 said: Schenn is going to cost us big money soon. Not Giroux money, but the longer we eat into his UFA years the worse its going to be. I'm guessing 5-6.5 depending on the years. He just isn't a 6.5 million a year player IMO. Schenn is no getting that type of money... he will sign something close to what Couts is making which is fine for a young kid that can still have an upward trajectory. 6.5 is way overstating his worth IMO. He *might* turn into that type of player but he is not there yet... I don't really see an issue here... they can protect 3 defensemen or any group of 8 players and first and second year players are exempt. This really is not an issue.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sekkes85 Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 21 minutes ago, JJMason33 said: Even Schenn and Sanheim if need be. Schenn is going to cost us big money soon. Not Giroux money, but the longer we eat into his UFA years the worse its going to be. I'm guessing 5-6.5 depending on the years. He just isn't a 6.5 million a year player IMO. If Schenn is asking for 5-6.5 with multiple years I'm laughing in his agents face and saying let someone else give that to you, we'll take their 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round picks for compensation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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