Entry Draft/Expansion Draft

[JJMason33]

This is going to be a long tangent.  So there was an article on another site that said the Flyers were interested in moving up to number 2 to take Patrik Laine and they would trade Schenn, Sanheim, Morin, and 2 picks in the first 4 rounds.  At first I kind of laughed to myself thinking no-way.  But then I started thinking about the Expansion Draft coming next summer and Schenn's contract, and his link to Winnipeg, and the Flyers need for a true sniping LW for Giroux.  In the Ex Draft you can only protect 7 forwards, 3 defenseman, and 1 goalie.  Only players on the first 2 years of their contracts are exempt, that includes AHL time.  In other words Morin and Ghost would have to be protected.  In addition it is likely you will have to protect your NMC players but not your NTC players, but this isn't final yet, and likely wont affect the Flyers much.

 

With that being said, the reason I think this trade is likely, other than needing the LW is because it kind of makes sense to drop some players that would definitely be picked in the ex draft for a player that could be a superstar and wouldn't need to be protected.

 

Here is how I see the Flyers Protecting If you keep these players.

1 Giroux NMC

2 Voracek

3 Simmonds

4 Schenn

5 Couturier

6 Laughton

7 Cousins

1 Ghost

2 Morin

3 Hagg

1 Mason/Nuevirth

 

Here is how I see If you make the trade.

1 Giroux NMC

2 Voracek

3 Simmonds

4 UFA

5 Couturier

6 Laughton

7 Cousins

1 Ghost

2 Del Zotto

3 Hagg

1 Mason/Nuevirth

 

I know it doesn't seem like a big difference, but it moves us to a win sooner scenario.  For example there are other things to consider regarding the expansion draft.  First is only protecting 1 goalie.  This means teams like Tampa wont be able to keep both Bishop and Vasilevski(sp).  So Bishop who is UFA will likely be hitting the trade market at the entry draft or trade deadline along with a bunch of other goalies that will be available in trade.  I would likely move Mason to Tampa for Bishops rights at the entry draft and get him signed.  Then in 2 years you have the making of a really exceptional team.  In addition I would sign another winger for size.  Like Lucic, Backes, Okposo, or Eriksson.  I would bet Raffl would be our player taken.

 

UFA-Giroux-Simmonds

Read-Couturier-Voracek

Laine-Konecny-Aube-Kubel

Cousins-Laughton-White

 

Ghost-MacDonald

Provorov-Del Zotto

Hagg-Gudas

 

Bishop

Neuvirth

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, JJMason33 said:

So there was an article on another site that said the Flyers were interested in moving up to number 2 to take Patrik Laine and they would trade Schenn, Sanheim, Morin, and 2 picks in the first 4 rounds. 

 

 

I would be open to a trade for Laine sure i even suggested such in the "5 things this offseason" thread (yeah i didn't say Laine but it is exactly who i wanted) but no way am i including Morin or Sanheim in that swap. I was suggesting something built around Jake and other forwards. But i'm not buying all that movement.

[OccamsRazor]

48 minutes ago, JJMason33 said:

Mason/Nuevirth

 

 

These guys won't get protection they are both UFAs. But i can see them protecting Stolarz.

 

Not sure Tampa would trade for a guy who is a UFA. Tampa will be keeping Bishop without doubt.

[JJMason33]

39 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

These guys won't get protection they are both UFAs. But i can see them protecting Stolarz.

 

Not sure Tampa would trade for a guy who is a UFA. Tampa will be keeping Bishop without doubt.

Then they will lose Vasilevskiy who is younger and cheaper and has potential to be better.

 

I would definitely include Morin, but I would try and keep Sanheim.  You do have to crack some eggs to make an omelet.  I would likely see if they would be willing to do Schenn, Morin, 2016 First, 2016 2nd, and 2017 First.

[OccamsRazor]

51 minutes ago, JJMason33 said:

Then they will lose Vasilevskiy who is younger and cheaper and has potential to be better.

 

I would definitely include Morin, but I would try and keep Sanheim.  You do have to crack some eggs to make an omelet.  I would likely see if they would be willing to do Schenn, Morin, 2016 First, 2016 2nd, and 2017 First.

 

 

HA HA wow talk about overkill sure is alot to give up. Glad you aren't GM.

 

No way i give up all that.

[JJMason33]

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

HA HA wow talk about overkill sure is alot to give up. Glad you aren't GM.

 

No way i give up all that.

We are trading a RFA that will likely command near 6 million depending on how many years of UFA he is giving up.  A young defenseman that may or may not live up to expectations, but is definitely 4th on the prospect depth pool of defenseman, and will require protection in the expansion draft. The 18th overall pick, Chicago's 2nd (52), and hopefully a pick in the bottom 8 next year.  IMO not a lot for the elite scorer that this team needs. We will still have 2016 #2 overall, 2016 #48, 2016 #78 & #81, one pick in each of 4th and 5th rounds, 2 sixth rounds, and a 7th round. And in 2017 all picks but the 1st and an extra 3rd.

 

I guess when it comes down to it, Hextall will eventually have to decide when to make the move that LA did when they went from a building team to a winning team.  A move that requires you to trade a young blossoming player (Simmonds) and a player considered the best prospect not in the NHL (Schenn) and a 2nd.  At the same time as trading a high scoring young defenseman (Johnson) and a First.

[RonJeremy]

I truly believe that the Flyers will trade one of their young prized defenseman to either move up in the draft or for an equally rated young scoring winger. If you look at our young dmen, Ghost and Provorov are not going anywhere, so that leaves Morin , Sanheim , Myers and Haag.  Now if you look at the type of dmen we have.. Ghost, Provorov and Sanheim are offensive types, while Morin is the only real physical intimidating guy, Haag and Myers are not overly physical ,not offensive dynamos, just solid guys. That said, I don't see us trading Morin since he is the only physical beast we have, Haag and Myers value is not all that high at this point, all though Myers stock is rising. So that leaves Sanheim, an offensive force who probably has the most value, and since we already have Ghost, Provo and Del Zotto providing the offense, I would not be surprised to see Sanheim moved for the right price. We cant have a defense of all skating ,offensive types we need a blend of physical guys who can play defense and shutdown guys as well as the skill guys. Is Sanheim alone enough to get the second pick in the draft and grab that left winger ?

[OccamsRazor]

@JJMason33

 

I'm not sure why everyone thinks they would trade one of their Dmen whom they have spent the time drafting and grooming and yet only one have them have arrived yet to the NHL and has only been there for one year.

 

You guys really aren't listening to Hextall and what he has been saying.

 

Dmen are worth their weight in gold as we have seen how hard it is for them to acquire them by having to trade a King's ransom for them. They take longer to develop so why on God's green earth would they then turn around and trade them for a forward it would make no sense on what Hextall has said about not chasing the Dragon as Rad has labeled it.

 

Especially after starting this rebuild project by drafting Ghost in 2012, Morin in 2013, Saheim in 2014, Ivan in 2015.

 

So like that we just want to start undoing what has been done before you even know the results??? Shear madness and shows you have learned nothing the last 20+ years.

 

Flyers have never had a lot of problem drafting forwards it has always been defensemen. And now low and behold they have a stable of them (arguably the best in the entire NHL) and now folks want to start giving them away Holmgren style??? 

 

That is just crazy as hell.

 

And for another prospect with potential even no a proven commodity. And don't get me wrong i would like Laine i just ain't giving away the collection of stud Dmen they have.

 

So if that is the only way it can be done then i pass. I would trade forwards for the pick maybe even a goaltender prospect...but Dmen are to hard to collect.

 

So no i'm not trading Morin i would protect him. They are allowed to protect 3 defenseman so i would protect Ghost Morin and Hagg. No issue.

[RonJeremy]

In this day and age to get quality, you have to give up quality. If the Flyers were offerred the # 2 pick for Sanheim would you do it? Sanheim is a top notch prospect and Laine is also. So its not like anyone is getting ripped off here. Its trading  blue chip for bue chip. Sure the flyers can get a good left wing at 18, but not a player like Laine.

[OccamsRazor]

4 minutes ago, RonJeremy said:

In this day and age to get quality, you have to give up quality. If the Flyers were offerred the # 2 pick for Sanheim would you do it? Sanheim is a top notch prospect and Laine is also. So its not like anyone is getting ripped off here. Its trading  blue chip for bue chip. Sure the flyers can get a good left wing at 18, but not a player like Laine.

 

Well straight up i'd do it maybe. But that ain't happening. I'm done chasing the dragon so should you.

[sekkes85]

Jumping up to #2 is going to cost a lot, a price I wouldn't be comfortable with.  If its a combination of our 1st, Schenn, Sanheim and another pick then no way.  We could obviously have a future 1st line scoring winger but your giving up a potential 1st pairing dman, a 1st/2nd line player that can play multiple positions, and a mid range 1st.  Price seems a bit too high for me.  If you do the same deal and replace Sanheim with Haag and we have a deal.  

 

Sorry, meant to say notnincluding Schenn too.

[OccamsRazor]

37 minutes ago, sekkes85 said:

Jumping up to #2 is going to cost a lot, a price I wouldn't be comfortable with.  If its a combination of our 1st, Schenn, Sanheim and another pick then no way.  We could obviously have a future 1st line scoring winger but your giving up a potential 1st pairing dman, a 1st/2nd line player that can play multiple positions, and a mid range 1st.  Price seems a bit too high for me.  If you do the same deal and replace Sanheim with Haag and we have a deal.  

 

Sorry, meant to say notnincluding Schenn too.

 

 

Yes i would do the 18th pick Jake and Hagg for the #2. I don't have anything against Jake but it would free up 8 mill and it would be giving up talent to get talent back.

 

It would give the Jets a top line RW and yet give the Flyers some youth to replace Jake in the lineup...however Laine is unproven at the NHL level but it would be worth the risk to move Jake's contract which i feel he will never live up to.

 

But i am not moving this stellar defense they are building beforw i even get to see it unveiled.

 

Provorv-Ghost

Sanheim-Morin

Meyers-Willcox-Friedman

 

That is a solid blueline for the next decade. That depth would/could make Hagg expendable.

[RonJeremy]

@OcacamsRazor...chasing the dragon is what Clarke and Homer did by trading picks and top prospects for washed up stiffs.If a team has a surplus of young defenseman and a severe lack of scoring and trades one defenseman for an equally impressive young winger, that is not chasing the dragon, that is being a good GM. We have 5 or 6 great young guys coming along, so if we can get a young winger for one of them, your not hurting the team.,but improving it. If the right offer comes our way you gotta listen .

[flyercanuck]

On 5/20/2016 at 5:13 PM, RonJeremy said:

I truly believe that the Flyers will trade one of their young prized defenseman to either move up in the draft or for an equally rated young scoring winger. If you look at our young dmen, Ghost and Provorov are not going anywhere, so that leaves Morin , Sanheim , Myers and Haag.  Now if you look at the type of dmen we have.. Ghost, Provorov and Sanheim are offensive types, while Morin is the only real physical intimidating guy, Haag and Myers are not overly physical ,not offensive dynamos, just solid guys. That said, I don't see us trading Morin since he is the only physical beast we have, Haag and Myers value is not all that high at this point, all though Myers stock is rising. So that leaves Sanheim, an offensive force who probably has the most value, and since we already have Ghost, Provo and Del Zotto providing the offense, I would not be surprised to see Sanheim moved for the right price. We cant have a defense of all skating ,offensive types we need a blend of physical guys who can play defense and shutdown guys as well as the skill guys. Is Sanheim alone enough to get the second pick in the draft and grab that left winger ?

 

Provorov may be great offensively, but he may be better defensively. he's not a big hitter, but he's smart, is positionally sound and plays with one of the longest sticks you'll ever see a guy 6 feet use.

 

Sanheim isn't getting you the 2nd pick. Not even close. You want Laine you'd better be ready to throw in your 1st...and next years 1st. And Winnipeg would still take him.

 

What's wrong with keeping all those guys? What's wrong with maybe starting something new in the NHL...a team that rolls out 3 sets of defencemen who carry the play and can skate the crap out of anyone? Make teams chase us for a change. MDZ/Provorov/Ghost/Sanheim/Myers/Morin...that could be one downright scary group....offensively AND defensively. 

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, flyercanuck said:

What's wrong with keeping all those guys? What's wrong with maybe starting something new in the NHL...a team that rolls out 3 sets of defencemen who carry the play and can skate the crap out of anyone? Make teams chase us for a change. MDZ/Provorov/Ghost/Sanheim/Myers/Morin...that could be one downright scary group....offensively AND defensively. 

 

 

Sounds good to me they have planted the seeds now we just have to wait to see the fruit it will yeild is all....i like trying this way for a change...who knows it may actually work and be the foundation of a Cup or..........wait for it........MORE.....they tried the other way since i have been a Flyer fan and i have seen zero Cups...

[RonJeremy]

Believe me, I am very happy that the Flyers, for the first time in team history, have a slew of incredible homegrown defenseman.  Having 6 great dmen will be pretty unbelievable for sure. I'm just looking for a way to jumpstart the rebuild a little bit, Giroux is gonna be on the downside of his career, (maybe he already is) by the time we draft and wait for some scoring wingers to matured ear the next 2-3 years. So is it better to have 6 young guys on the blue line and the same anemic scoring, or is it better to sacrifice a young dman for a young scorer and have a better balanced team? So if we landed two big scoring wingers this draft, we are much closer to our goal, especially  if one guy can step in this year.  Each extra year we take, Girouxs skills diminish.This draft is loaded big scoring wingers, it's a chance to address our biggest need. It's a tough situation, to talk about dealing a great young dman, but if we did, it's not gonna hurt the team, let's say we traded Sanheim for Drouin would we be a betterment or a worse team? GMs talk all the time and throw out potential trade ideas, as Hextall always says, if a trade will improve the team he will listen. 

[RonJeremy]

P.s. Sorry about the mistakes, the iPad puts in the wrong words.Remember I was a school teacher before I became a porn star.

 

[Philly29]

3 hours ago, RonJeremy said:

Believe me, I am very happy that the Flyers, for the first time in team history, have a slew of incredible homegrown defenseman.  Having 6 great dmen will be pretty unbelievable for sure. I'm just looking for a way to jumpstart the rebuild a little bit, Giroux is gonna be on the downside of his career, (maybe he already is) by the time we draft and wait for some scoring wingers to matured ear the next 2-3 years. So is it better to have 6 young guys on the blue line and the same anemic scoring, or is it better to sacrifice a young dman for a young scorer and have a better balanced team? So if we landed two big scoring wingers this draft, we are much closer to our goal, especially  if one guy can step in this year.  Each extra year we take, Girouxs skills diminish.This draft is loaded big scoring wingers, it's a chance to address our biggest need. It's a tough situation, to talk about dealing a great young dman, but if we did, it's not gonna hurt the team, let's say we traded Sanheim for Drouin would we be a betterment or a worse team? GMs talk all the time and throw out potential trade ideas, as Hextall always says, if a trade will improve the team he will listen. 

How is Giroux on the downside of his career the dude is 28 years old and in 3 years he still will be in his prime I just do not get people wanting to trade Giroux because people are acting like he is Mark Streit already....I just do not get it....

[ruxpin]

On 5/20/2016 at 9:27 AM, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

HA HA wow talk about overkill sure is alot to give up. Glad you aren't GM.

 

No way i give up all that.

 

I think we all have figured out that JJMiller33 is Howie Roseman.   (@JJMiller33, I mean that playfully).

 

I noticed Haag on the protect list.   I don't protect him over other prospects.  Unless his play changes next year, no one is wasting an expansion pick on him.  

 

@RonJeremy   I agree.  At some point we'll end up trading one of the defensive prospects.   But I think wait and see yet.  I wouldn't want to roll the dice on which one just yet.  Nashville did similar with Seth Jones for Johansen.   I think we just wait to see which on has promise but is the odd man out and deal from strength.   Right now, we'd just be dealing on potential and the hand isn't as strong.

[sarsippius]

57 minutes ago, Philly29 said:

How is Giroux on the downside of his career the dude is 28 years old and in 3 years he still will be in his prime I just do not get people wanting to trade Giroux because people are acting like he is Mark Streit already....I just do not get it....

I agree with you, I don't want to trade Giroux, and "downside" of his career is off base, but I DO think it's undeniable that spring 2012 has been the apex of his career to this point. This is what people point to when justifying why he should be traded for picks and youth. A large contingent of fans want him to be be a top 5 in the league player, and hes not, but I want him around as the youth movement progresses

[terp]

56 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

I think we all have figured out that JJMiller33 is Howie Roseman.   (@JJMiller33, I mean that playfully).

 

I noticed Haag on the protect list.   I don't protect him over other prospects.  Unless his play changes next year, no one is wasting an expansion pick on him.  

 

I saw this too and had the same reaction: if he picks it us significantly, he gives you the kind of problem you like to have.  Right now however it's at least as likely he's an AHL 7th defenseman. 

[Howie58]

After reading what's here, how's this possibility...trading an offensive d-man for the right to pick a man-mountain type.  I wouldn't mind an Ekblad.

 

 

[flyercanuck]

19 hours ago, RonJeremy said:

Believe me, I am very happy that the Flyers, for the first time in team history, have a slew of incredible homegrown defenseman.  Having 6 great dmen will be pretty unbelievable for sure. I'm just looking for a way to jumpstart the rebuild a little bit, Giroux is gonna be on the downside of his career, (maybe he already is) by the time we draft and wait for some scoring wingers to matured ear the next 2-3 years. So is it better to have 6 young guys on the blue line and the same anemic scoring, or is it better to sacrifice a young dman for a young scorer and have a better balanced team? So if we landed two big scoring wingers this draft, we are much closer to our goal, especially  if one guy can step in this year.  Each extra year we take, Girouxs skills diminish.This draft is loaded big scoring wingers, it's a chance to address our biggest need. It's a tough situation, to talk about dealing a great young dman, but if we did, it's not gonna hurt the team, let's say we traded Sanheim for Drouin would we be a betterment or a worse team? GMs talk all the time and throw out potential trade ideas, as Hextall always says, if a trade will improve the team he will listen. 

 

How does 2 time Norris winner Travis Sanheim of the Tampa Bay Lightning sound to you?

[flyercanuck]

10 hours ago, Howie58 said:

After reading what's here, how's this possibility...trading an offensive d-man for the right to pick a man-mountain type.  I wouldn't mind an Ekblad.

 

 

 

Everyone would like an Ekblad. You want him, Florida likely wants Provorov and Konecny and Ghost and a 1st. 

 

You want a mountain? Morin is 6'7" Myers is 6'4" Sanheim is  6'4".

[JJMason33]

I would just like to say this isn't like Clarke and Homer mortgaging the future... What I am saying is make the move to win now.  While everyone may wish to have all these guys on your blue-line, but it just cant happen for several reasons.  First, there is only so much ice-time to go around.  You will be robbing these guys of their chance to shine.  Secondly, by year 3-4 your going to have all of your salary on your blue-line.  We have 4 guys capable of being top 2 defenseman.  Would it so terrible to have 3 defenseman capable of being top 2 d-men and having a winger capable of being a perennial all-star?