Capitals year in review

[yave1964]

PRESEASON OUTLOOK: They retooled after yet another early out, adding playoff hero Justin Williams and shootout star T.J. Oshie and hoped the two of them would mesh with a determined bunch of returning young vets and they would finally make it to the Conference finals or deeper during the Ovechkin era.

 

FINAL RECORD: 56-18-8 120 POINTS, won the Presidents trophy with the leagues best record. Lost in the second round to the Penguins.

 

STRANGE STAT OF THE YEAR: 2ND Most goals for and second least goals allowed in the league led to a goal differential of plus 57. Individually, they were a scoring machine except their five day games where nobody did much of anything, Oshie actually went scoreless in all five day games. Ovechkin has always been a shooting fool, from anywhere anytime but this year his shots (398) were double the next closest teammate.

 

HIGH POINT OF THE YEAR: On February 22nd they defeated the Coyotes for their 4th win in a row and 9th in their previous 10 games to run their record to 44-10-4. They were the leagues hottest team and the Presidents trophy was a foregone conclusion. It was just a matter of staying hot, keeping their focus and preparing for the postseason.

 

LOW POINT OF THE SEASON: Regular season wise, from then on they were a .500 team going 12-8-4, still winning the Presidents trophy but they lost 6 of their final 8 to stumble into the second season.

  As for the real low point of the year, it is the biggest no brainer of the year, losing in the second round to the Penguins and Crosby again missing the conference finals and the Ovechkin era is developing into one missed opportunity after another.

 

WHAT WENT RIGHT: Braden Holtby should win the Vezina with 48 wins and a stellar 2.20 goals against. Ovechkin scored 50 goals for the 3rd year in a row and 7th time in his career. Evgeny Kuznetsov (20-57-77) led the team in points and is a premier player in the game now. Nicklas Backstrom (20-50-70) continues to be Robin to Ovie's Batman and is aging like fine wine. Williams (22-30-52) and Oshie (26-25-51) justified the organizations faith and were solid all year long. Marcus Johanssen and Jason Chimera were brilliant on the third line and played higher when needing to step in. Tom Wilson was a nasty bit of work, fighting and hitting and scoring the occasional timely goal. Carlson was amazing on defense for the first half until suffering an injury. Another young forward, Andre Bukarovsky (17-21-38) provided great secondary scoring. Defenseman Niskanen, Orlov, Alzner and Orpik were all underrated and solid which is a huge part of the success enjoyed by Holtby.

 

WHAT WENT WRONG: Well start with another second round loss and go from there. Individually, Mike Richards played half a season and scored 2 goals and 3 assists. I wrote in here halfway through the season that the Caps were in trouble down the middle, Backstrom is solid and as great as Kuznetsov is and will be he really is better suited for the wing. I wrote that without the center position shored up it would be a glaring weakness come postseason and while I get as much wrong as anyone, I nailed that one. Center was their kryptonite. Carlson canme back too soon after his injury and was never the same player and it cost them badly. Their late season fade coincided with his loss and then ineffectiveness. Pretty much anything else would be nitpicky, the team was stacked all year.

 

MVP: I am going with Holtby who tied the record for most wins in a season by a goaltender. I would go Kuznetsov second and Ovie third.

 

FREE AGENTS: Mike Richards is gone like a cool breeze. Jason Chimera is a nice spear carrier and will be missed if he moves on but they have younger, faster options. Nobody else matters from their list.

 

TOP ROOKIES: I like Riley Barber A LOT, he attended Miami University in Ohio and I saw him play twice in person and even said hi after a game once and my teenage daughter pronounced him the best looking man she ever met. Eventually I will have to get her a Barber jersey if he makes it, she still talks about him but I doubt the 2 minute conversation did much for him, lol. He is a goal scorer who can fly and plays at both ends and will likely take Chimera's place. Keep an eye on him, I know my daughter is. Madison Bowey is a serious defensive prospect and should be the 7th guy at the least. A lot of folk are high on center Chandler Stephenson and winger Jakub Vrana but I dont see much there. Watched Hershey against the Marlies in the conference final last night and they were invisible. Guys like Travis Boyd and Stanislav Galiev will see time as injury callups and arent bad.

 

OFFSEASON QUESTION MARKS: Where do they go from here? They ran away and hid with the Presidents trophy, they were brilliant at both ends of the ice all year. And yet again...... How the Hell do they get over the hump?

 

[ruxpin]

@yave1964

 

Quote

How the Hell do they get over the hump?

 

I really shouldn't get a lot of credit for this, but still some people on here argued with me, so what the heck:  what did I say all year long and actually for several years? 

 

They will not and cannot win with Ovechkin as Captain. The guy is ultimately a loser. Lots of skill, but a loser. 

 

I know someone will make the brainless argument that you can't blame him because he personally had decent stats in the playoffs.   But that IS brainless. You absolutely can and, of course, you should. 

 

Trade him, get what you can (should be really good) and win without him. P

[WordsOfWisdom]

The thread title photo was just too funny not to click.  

[WordsOfWisdom]

1 hour ago, yave1964 said:

They ran away and hid with the Presidents trophy, they were brilliant at both ends of the ice all year. And yet again...... How the Hell do they get over the hump?

 

By lowering expectations. 

 

See: St. Louis Blues, San Jose Sharks.

 

You only win the Stanley Cup once everyone has written you off as a lost cause that can never win the big one. Going in as the Presidents trophy winner is just begging for an early elimination.  

[JagerMeister]

1 hour ago, ruxpin said:

 

@yave1964

 

 

I really shouldn't get a lot of credit for this, but still some people on here argued with me, so what the heck:  what did I say all year long and actually for several years? 

 

They will not and cannot win with Ovechkin as Captain. The guy is ultimately a loser. Lots of skill, but a loser. 

So strip him of captaincy, that will certainly solve their inability to advance to the 3rd round...

 

Also, what do you mean when you label him a "loser"? Is he a loser because he just so happened to be anointed the C and the whole team is seemingly incapable of advancing past the second round? Then I suppose he is a loser, so is the rest of the team. Oh, or are you saying he has a loser mentality? Because you somehow correlated his captaincy and the abundance of lost second rounds and arrived to the erroneous conclusion that he must have a loser mentality? Which is of course, completely absurd since we don't know Ovechkin.

1 hour ago, ruxpin said:

I know someone will make the brainless argument that you can't blame him because he personally had decent stats in the playoffs.   But that IS brainless. You absolutely can and, of course, you should. 

Except the thing with you is that you would probably would hold him culpable no matter how excellent his individual performance was, you ironically call my argument brainless. When the extent of your thought process with your argument is perhaps, just as simple minded as mine.

 

1 hour ago, ruxpin said:

 

Trade him, get what you can (should be really good) and win without him. P

Well, perhaps we have found some common ground in this Ovechkin debate...

Except I'm likely open to the suggestion of possibly trading him for a very different reason.... Ovechkin is 30, a great goal scorer and a physical presence. This year he had exactly 50 goals. His decline in production has been gradual but there will inevitably come a time when it starts to become more noticeable, and he won't be improving in the offensive aspect anytime soon. In addition to him throwing around the body less every year, I don't see him maintaining the succession of 50 goals a year for much longer. Since that's his expertise and everything else about him excluding defense has been decreasing slowly... well, it wouldn't be stupid to trade him.

[ruxpin]

Quote

Except the thing with you is that you would probably would hold him culpable no matter how excellent his individual performance was, you ironically call my argument brainless. When the extent of your thought process with your argument is perhaps, just as simple minded as mine.

 

Except mine takes into account 11 years of actual results.  It's funny.  I used "brainless" and you weren't even in the thread, so who's making the assumptions on the "my" argument thing.

 

And then you went ahead and made an argument to meet the description.  Congrats.

 

The $500 I won on a way-too-easy bet on Pittsburgh says he's a loser.

 

Quote

Also, what do you mean when you label him a "loser"? 

Reality.   Mounting and already deep evidence says he's a loser.  We don't need a discussion of mentality, although I think he's mentally not a very smart player and a loser.  But I'm strictly talking results.

 

They have changed:

1. Coaches repeatedly
2. The roster.  They've brought all kinds of people in to help this "core."   The core being Ovechkin
3. They've changed goalies.  They currently have a soon-to-be Vezina Trophy winner

What has remained constant:

1. Ovechkin
2. 8 years first or second in their division.  6 times first.   One President's trophy.
3. NEVER PAST THE SECOND ROUND.  3-8 in playoff rounds.   

 

The guy just doesn't know how to elevate his team to win the big games.  7 game 7 losses since 2008.   In those games since 2012, 4 game sevens, 1 goal, 2 assists.  +/- 0.  You pick any stretch of four games, and that's not horrible.  3 points in 4 games.  Lots of players would be happy.   These are game sevens for a guy developing a story line on his career.  Going back to 2008.   Seven game 7 losses total.  3G, 4A.  +/- -1.  That's a PPG.   Again, not bad on paper.   7 losses for a guy developing a story line on his career.  His teams, no matter who is coaching, who is playing goal, what system they're playing, or who his teammates LOSE THE BIG GAME.

 

I've said before, the guy is such a winner that with the medal round basically on the line, his coach sat him through a long shoot out.   There were 12 players with as many or more shifts as him that game.   Oh, and they lost.  Maybe the Russian coach knows he's not a big game player.

 

Have they lost because of him?  No, I don't think so.   For example, in the 2008 game 7  3-2 loss to the Flyers, he contributed on both goals.  Someone else has to do something.  The problem there is that the offense was funneled through him.  He overstayed shifts, the coach used him on the point on penalties rather than down lower, etc.   Is a 3-2 loss where he contributed on both goals his fault?   No.   But he didn't elevate them to win.  Excusable for a young guy on a team making the playoffs for the first time since he was in the league. In their 2015 2-1 loss in game 7 to the Rangers, he scored the Caps only goal.  Looks great on the stat sheet.   It's a loss.

 

He's the captain.  He's and Backstrom have been the constants.   Carlson since 2011.  Much of the rest has changed.  He's on his fourth head coach since 2011.

 

Trade the loser to a team that would be happy with some regular season success.   Better yet, trade him to some western team who thinks they need one more piece and get some good quality players (or a really quality player and some draft picks/prospects).    It will reshape the Caps squad and maybe make some of them not wait around for Ovie to do something in game 7 (their fault, not his necessarily) and maybe they get this thing done.   Meanwhile, if he joins a team "right there" already, maybe he's not "the guy" as the newbie and he helps them get deep by adding some production but not being looked at to try to do everything.

 

Or, his stink goes with him and that Western team gets eliminated early.   I don't think the guy is a winner.   I think he's a loser.

 

 

1 hour ago, JagerMeister said:

Ovechkin is 30, a great goal scorer and a physical presence. This year he had exactly 50 goals. His decline in production has been gradual but there will inevitably come a time when it starts to become more noticeable, and he won't be improving in the offensive aspect anytime soon. In addition to him throwing around the body less every year, I don't see him maintaining the succession of 50 goals a year for much longer. Since that's his expertise and everything else about him excluding defense has been decreasing slowly... well, it wouldn't be stupid to trade him.

 

yeah, this is reason enough.  Even without the name on the back of the jersey.    Yeah, this would be the optimal time to sell high.   And I think it ultimately helps the Caps' chances of success.

 

By the way, the way this will play out is we'll go back and forth with you ignoring 11 years of failure to describe a "winner, it's just everyone else's fault.  No matter it was a lot of everyone elses, including people who got it done elsewhere" and I'll eventually grow bored with the "conversation."      Yay.  I can't wait.

[yave1964]

3 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

Forget everything else i've said, yeah, this is reason enough.  Even without the name on the back of the jersey.    Yeah, this would be the optimal time to sell high.   And I think it ultimately helps the Caps' chances of success.

So I say trade Ovie to the Wild where he reunites with Boudreau and then the Wild sign James 'Game 7' Reimer in net. THAT would be a fun team to watch in April. But watch from a distance, if you are too close you could get hurt by the shrapnel when they implode.... And keep in mind I am the resident Boudreau apologist in here, but wow would that be a fun bunch to watch.

[ruxpin]

Just now, yave1964 said:

So I say trade Ovie to the Wild where he reunites with Boudreau and then the Wild sign James 'Game 7' Reimer in net. THAT would be a fun team to watch in April. But watch from a distance, if you are too close you could get hurt by the shrapnel when they implode.... And keep in mind I am the resident Boudreau apologist in here, but wow would that be a fun bunch to watch.

 

LOL.  By the way, I was merging and editing topics while you were responding, just in case other people see the quote is slightly different than what currently exists.  That is what I originally wrote.

 

Yeah, I guarantee they would implode.   A coach who can't win the big game, a new shiny toy that can't win the big game, all added to a team that can't win the big series.    Yay.  Good times in Minny.

[hf101]

14 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

Yeah, I guarantee they would implode.   A coach who can't win the big game, a new shiny toy that can't win the big game, all added to a team that can't win the big series.    Yay.  Good times in Minny.

1

 

[WordsOfWisdom]

3 hours ago, ruxpin said:

They will not and cannot win with Ovechkin as Captain. The guy is ultimately a loser. Lots of skill, but a loser. 

 

This warranted some further discussion... 

 

I've noticed a trait that seems to apply to all (or nearly all) Russian hockey players: great individual talent, but they don't play well collectively. 

 

For whatever reason, Russian players don't strike me as being team players. If you examine the 30 NHL teams, we see Russian top scorers like Ovechkin, but you don't usually see a Russian player lead his team to a Stanley Cup. At the Olympics, the Russians have never won gold.*

 

*All the championships prior to 1998 don't count because Canada's best players were in the NHL and were not allowed to play in the Olympics due to scheduling conflicts (ie: the NHL season was on). 

 

Since it has been a best on best tournament, Canada has won, the US has won (World Cup 1996), Sweden has won, Czech Republic has won, etc......  How many gold medals for Russia? Zero. 

 

Whatever intangible is missing, there is clearly something missing from players like Ovechkin. He seems to get frustrated easily, will try to go it alone when trust in his teammates fails, and inevitably, can't grind it out when the game is at its toughest. It's that razor thin difference between being one of the best and being the best. 

 

[JagerMeister]

1 hour ago, ruxpin said:

 

Except mine takes into account 11 years of actual results.  It's funny.  I used "brainless" and you weren't even in the thread, so who's making the assumptions on the "my" argument thing.

 

And then you went ahead and made an argument to meet the description.  Congrats.

I know someone will make the brainless argument that you can't blame him because he personally had decent stats in the playoffs.   But that IS brainless. You absolutely can and, of course, you should. 

 

That was your previous statement, im 100 percent certain you were referring to me. I'm the only one on this forum who has adamantly opposed your sentiment in regards to Ovechkin. Because that was the exact argument I made when we were discussing this in another thread.

 

 

1 hour ago, ruxpin said:

The $500 I won on a way-too-easy bet on Pittsburgh says he's a loser.

 

Reality.   Mounting and already deep evidence says he's a loser.  We don't need a discussion of mentality, although I think he's mentally not a very smart player and a loser.  But I'm strictly talking results.

 

They have changed:

1. Coaches repeatedly
2. The roster.  They've brought all kinds of people in to help this "core."   The core being Ovechkin
3. They've changed goalies.  They currently have a soon-to-be Vezina Trophy winner

What has remained constant:

1. Ovechkin
2. 8 years first or second in their division.  6 times first.   One President's trophy.
3. NEVER PAST THE SECOND ROUND.  3-8 in playoff rounds.   

 

1 hour ago, ruxpin said:

By the way, the way this will play out is we'll go back and forth with you ignoring 11 years of failure to describe a "winner, it's just everyone else's fault.  No matter it was a lot of everyone elses, including people who got it done elsewhere" and I'll eventually grow bored with the "conversation."      Yay.  I can't wait.

I never ignored the 11 years of failure. I never said it was everyone else's fault.

 

What I did say was that not all of those years where they lost should be attributed to Ovechkin. 

 

 2011-12 to 2014-15 when his production began declining, his teams were not as good. Yet in his earlier years he was producing like your best player should in the playoffs, and made the semi finals a couple of times.

 

So what can we take from this? One thing I realized about our back and forth about Ovechkin is how much he has declined. Even look at his regular season production right now and compare it to his earlier years, same with playoffs. He had 112, 109 and 110 points from 2006-09, and his production in the playoffs was excellent. Onward, he never eclipses 90 points, and while that doesn't justify 2 points in 7 games, I think its safe to say current Ovechkin is evidently not the offensive dynamo he used to be, and I must concede that he doesn't have that ability to elevate his team anymore.

 

Does that mean they can't win with him as their best player?  Well, I don't think so. guys like Tarasenko and whoever the best player on the sharks is are currently not superior to Ovechkin. Yet look at their teams. Half the explanation can be Ovechkin not performing to his standard in some years, and just not being what he used to be. He deserves some blame, but mostly it's their overreliance on him.

 

 

[JagerMeister]

2 hours ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

 

This warranted some further discussion... 

 

I've noticed a trait that seems to apply to all (or nearly all) Russian hockey players: great individual talent, but they don't play well collectively. 

 

For whatever reason, Russian players don't strike me as being team players. If you examine the 30 NHL teams, we see Russian top scorers like Ovechkin, but you don't usually see a Russian player lead his team to a Stanley Cup. At the Olympics, the Russians have never won gold.*

Russian top scorers have been a rarity until very recently. Ovechkin is the first Russian to lead the league in points. How can a Russian "lead" his team to the Stanley cup when typically a Russian will not be the best player on the team? But on occasion when the Russian is the best player, the closest there was to one leading their team to the Stanley cup was Pavel Bure. Someone who is funnily enough, considered inferior to Ovechkin yet led a much worse team to the Stanley cup final. Weird huh?

 

[WordsOfWisdom]

9 hours ago, JagerMeister said:

Russian top scorers have been a rarity until very recently. Ovechkin is the first Russian to lead the league in points. How can a Russian "lead" his team to the Stanley cup when typically a Russian will not be the best player on the team? But on occasion when the Russian is the best player, the closest there was to one leading their team to the Stanley cup was Pavel Bure. Someone who is funnily enough, considered inferior to Ovechkin yet led a much worse team to the Stanley cup final. Weird huh?

 

 

I consider Bure to be roughly equivalent to Ovechkin. Ovechkin is better, has better numbers, has won more awards, but the gap isn't huge or anything. It's A+ (Ovechkin) versus A (Bure). Bure just couldn't stay healthy, had a much smaller frame, and played in a much more violent and lawless NHL than the one Ovechkin plays in today. Bure also played his entire career on the crappiest teams in the NHL. The Canucks (with the exception of 1994) were a horrible hockey team back then. The Panthers were a terrible hockey team in the early 2000's when Bure was there. Finally, the Rangers were routinely missing the playoffs during Bure's retirement stint in New York. He never played on a team the calibre of this year's Capitals or anything even remotely close to it.

 

Whew! All that being said...  

 

Bure seemed to elevate the Canucks. He scored key playoff goals. He made a rather mediocre/middle of the pack Vancouver team quite dangerous. Ovechkin seems to go silent in the playoffs. We always know he's there, but he doesn't take over the game and dominate. Go figure. 

 

 

 

 

[yave1964]

2 hours ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

 

I consider Bure to be roughly equivalent to Ovechkin. Ovechkin is better, has better numbers, has won more awards, but the gap isn't huge or anything. It's A+ (Ovechkin) versus A (Bure). Bure just couldn't stay healthy, had a much smaller frame, and played in a much more violent and lawless NHL than the one Ovechkin plays in today. Bure also played his entire career on the crappiest teams in the NHL. The Canucks (with the exception of 1994) were a horrible hockey team back then. The Panthers were a terrible hockey team in the early 2000's when Bure was there. Finally, the Rangers were routinely missing the playoffs during Bure's retirement stint in New York. He never played on a team the calibre of this year's Capitals or anything even remotely close to it.

 

Whew! All that being said...  

 

Bure seemed to elevate the Canucks. He scored key playoff goals. He made a rather mediocre/middle of the pack Vancouver team quite dangerous. Ovechkin seems to go silent in the playoffs. We always know he's there, but he doesn't take over the game and dominate. Go figure. 

 

 

 

 

I have always felt their is a bias in NA against Euros especially the Ruskies probably dating back to the Summit series, lol. The truth is there are soft Euros and soft NA players, good leaders and bad ones from both sides of the pond. It iritates me when people lump them in as a race and do not look at them as individuals.

  Is Ovechkin a great leader? No, Hell no even. Is it because he is Russian? To say that IMHO is absurd. He is not a good leader because he is not a good leader. Being Russian has zero to do with it.

  Guys like Sundin and the Sedins and Bure and Malkin and Lundqvist are held to a different standard IMHO because of North American bias which is perptuated by people like that Ass Clown Con Cherry overtly and many others such as Milbury and Roenick more covertly. There are many, many North American Hockey players who go their entire career making a damn good living and are the stars of their teams and never win anything. Shane Doan gets credit as a warrior and a battler but has the hockey IQ of a gnat and has never come close to winning anything. Shea Weber whom I love is never held in derision because his Predators never make it out of the second round. Thornton and Marleau are now held in the same class by many as the Sedins but they are the exception.

  A Euro comes over and is suspect until he proves different. He is held to a higher standard than a good old Manitoba farm boy or a hard working snot nosed punk from Boston. Speaking of Roenick how many cups exactly does he have? Or Milbury? But they were known for their great work ethic and known as the type who elevated their teammates.

  Part of it I am sure is the culture or language barrier. They are foreign and are treated differently. Look at teams bottom lines, at their bottom pair on defense, they are dominated by North American players for the most part because even today coaches and GMs when choosing their bottom guys tend to choose someone they can relate to, either on purpose or not. You have to either be a star or a cut above to stay in the NHL as a Euro. sad but true.

  Okay, off my soapbox.

  Ovechkin deserves blame for the Capitals loss this year, as do all the players on the team. As the captain and the face of the franchise and arguably the teams best player does he deserve more blame? The answer to those is of couse, yes, yes and yes. Does he receive even more blame however than he deserves simply because he is foreign and more specifically Russian? Sadly, the answer to that is yes as well. It happened with Sundin and the Sedins and Bure and many other Euros as well. More than their fair share.

[ruxpin]

1 hour ago, yave1964 said:

I have always felt their is a bias in NA against Euros especially the Ruskies probably dating back to the Summit series, lol. The truth is there are soft Euros and soft NA players, good leaders and bad ones from both sides of the pond. It iritates me when people lump them in as a race and do not look at them as individuals.

  Is Ovechkin a great leader? No, Hell no even. Is it because he is Russian? To say that IMHO is absurd. He is not a good leader because he is not a good leader. Being Russian has zero to do with it.

  Guys like Sundin and the Sedins and Bure and Malkin and Lundqvist are held to a different standard IMHO because of North American bias which is perptuated by people like that Ass Clown Con Cherry overtly and many others such as Milbury and Roenick more covertly. There are many, many North American Hockey players who go their entire career making a damn good living and are the stars of their teams and never win anything. Shane Doan gets credit as a warrior and a battler but has the hockey IQ of a gnat and has never come close to winning anything. Shea Weber whom I love is never held in derision because his Predators never make it out of the second round. Thornton and Marleau are now held in the same class by many as the Sedins but they are the exception.

  A Euro comes over and is suspect until he proves different. He is held to a higher standard than a good old Manitoba farm boy or a hard working snot nosed punk from Boston. Speaking of Roenick how many cups exactly does he have? Or Milbury? But they were known for their great work ethic and known as the type who elevated their teammates.

  Part of it I am sure is the culture or language barrier. They are foreign and are treated differently. Look at teams bottom lines, at their bottom pair on defense, they are dominated by North American players for the most part because even today coaches and GMs when choosing their bottom guys tend to choose someone they can relate to, either on purpose or not. You have to either be a star or a cut above to stay in the NHL as a Euro. sad but true.

  Okay, off my soapbox.

  Ovechkin deserves blame for the Capitals loss this year, as do all the players on the team. As the captain and the face of the franchise and arguably the teams best player does he deserve more blame? The answer to those is of couse, yes, yes and yes. Does he receive even more blame however than he deserves simply because he is foreign and more specifically Russian? Sadly, the answer to that is yes as well. It happened with Sundin and the Sedins and Bure and many other Euros as well. More than their fair share.

 

What a terrific post.   Agree with every single word.  I agree with some of them multiple times.   Man, that was great.   Yes, yes, yes, and a couple more yeses. 

[WordsOfWisdom]

3 hours ago, yave1964 said:

I have always felt their is a bias in NA against Euros especially the Ruskies probably dating back to the Summit series, lol. The truth is there are soft Euros and soft NA players, good leaders and bad ones from both sides of the pond. It iritates me when people lump them in as a race and do not look at them as individuals.

  Is Ovechkin a great leader? No, Hell no even. Is it because he is Russian? To say that IMHO is absurd. He is not a good leader because he is not a good leader. Being Russian has zero to do with it.

  Guys like Sundin and the Sedins and Bure and Malkin and Lundqvist are held to a different standard IMHO because of North American bias which is perptuated by people like that Ass Clown Con Cherry overtly and many others such as Milbury and Roenick more covertly.

 

 

I agree with your post (for the most part), and I agree that Cherry is a neanderthal, but here's a few points to consider:  

 

1. Given the cold war history between Russia and the US/Canada, and the fact that all 30 teams in the NHL are in North America, would you say that Russian players find it harder to "warm up to" the idea of playing in the NHL? 
2. Would you also say that Russian players might value an Olympic gold medal or world championship tournament more highly than they do the Stanley Cup?

 

[yave1964]

5 minutes ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

 

 

I agree with your post (for the most part), and I agree that Cherry is a neanderthal, but here's a few points to consider:  

 

1. Given the cold war history between Russia and the US/Canada, and the fact that all 30 teams in the NHL are in North America, would you say that Russian players find it harder to "warm up to" the idea of playing in the NHL? 
2. Would you also say that Russian players might value an Olympic gold medal or world championship tournament more highly than they do the Stanley Cup?

 

Lots of Euros have a difficult time making the transition to NA, it is money that draws them over. For the most part when they discover they are bottom pair players at best they go home for roughly the same money as they could make here.

  And I also agree that World tourneys representing their home country is more important to the Russian and Baltic countries than to the rest of us. It goes back to the days of the USSR and the Czech republic and the immense hatred between the two, a lot of those folks still have a strong hate on for each other. So sport is life or death and representing their country is a greater honor than it is over here. Over here Dylan Larkin playing for the USA or Corey Perry playing for Canada is a booby prize for losing in the playoffs.

[J0e Th0rnton]

On 5/22/2016 at 11:37 PM, WordsOfWisdom said:

 

This warranted some further discussion... 

 

I've noticed a trait that seems to apply to all (or nearly all) Russian hockey players: great individual talent, but they don't play well collectively. 

 

For whatever reason, Russian players don't strike me as being team players. If you examine the 30 NHL teams, we see Russian top scorers like Ovechkin, but you don't usually see a Russian player lead his team to a Stanley Cup. At the Olympics, the Russians have never won gold.*

 

*All the championships prior to 1998 don't count because Canada's best players were in the NHL and were not allowed to play in the Olympics due to scheduling conflicts (ie: the NHL season was on). 

 

Since it has been a best on best tournament, Canada has won, the US has won (World Cup 1996), Sweden has won, Czech Republic has won, etc......  How many gold medals for Russia? Zero. 

 

Whatever intangible is missing, there is clearly something missing from players like Ovechkin. He seems to get frustrated easily, will try to go it alone when trust in his teammates fails, and inevitably, can't grind it out when the game is at its toughest. It's that razor thin difference between being one of the best and being the best. 

 

Its like the opposite of how they played when they were still Soviets. Back then, few could stand out because they played such a team first selfless system. My Dad made me watch the summit series with him so he could explain how hockey used to be played by both Canada and the Soviets and how the integration of that series changed blueprints and each nation adapted and adopted traits from each other to have the hockey we see today

[J0e Th0rnton]

@ruxpin

I am going to go ahead and disagree with you on Ovechkin. The guy has long been called a floater and compiler, but he just as often gives it his all and did not get praised for it. He scored over a PPG in the series while many teammates disappeared and did everything he could to carry that team. Kuznetsov who was a regular season marvel was a disastrous pick for my fantasy playoffs. 2 points in 12 games after tearing it up all season. Hell, he only had 1 more assist than Braden Holtby in 12 games.......Let that sink in

 

Ovechkin bought in and delivered this season.

[ruxpin]

50 minutes ago, J0e Th0rnton said:

Ovechkin bought in and delivered this season.

 

...and lost.   

 

Loser.

 

(I hate it when the fishing rod catches the wrong fish.  A shark, if you will)

[J0e Th0rnton]

15 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

...and lost.   

 

Loser.

 

(I hate it when the fishing rod catches the wrong fish.  A shark, if you will)

Most players in the league are losers. When it comes right down to it.

[JagerMeister]

On ‎5‎/‎22‎/‎2016 at 7:26 AM, WordsOfWisdom said:

 

I consider Bure to be roughly equivalent to Ovechkin. Ovechkin is better, has better numbers, has won more awards, but the gap isn't huge or anything. It's A+ (Ovechkin) versus A (Bure). Bure just couldn't stay healthy, had a much smaller frame, and played in a much more violent and lawless NHL than the one Ovechkin plays in today. Bure also played his entire career on the crappiest teams in the NHL. The Canucks (with the exception of 1994) were a horrible hockey team back then. The Panthers were a terrible hockey team in the early 2000's when Bure was there. Finally, the Rangers were routinely missing the playoffs during Bure's retirement stint in New York. He never played on a team the calibre of this year's Capitals or anything even remotely close to it.

 

Whew! All that being said...  

 

Bure seemed to elevate the Canucks. He scored key playoff goals. He made a rather mediocre/middle of the pack Vancouver team quite dangerous. Ovechkin seems to go silent in the playoffs. We always know he's there, but he doesn't take over the game and dominate. Go figure. 

 

 

 

 

He did in his earlier postseason performances. Now though, he's just a solid contributor or a horrid one in the past few years.

[notfondajane]

On 5/24/2016 at 0:13 PM, JagerMeister said:

He did in his earlier postseason performances. Now though, he's just a solid contributor or a horrid one in the past few years.

This parallels Fleury in the playoffs! The Penguins can't seem to get out of the first round with him as starting goaltender.