Hextall's Legacy as GM

[King Knut]

21 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

No

 

 

Ha ha.  Glad you can take a joke. 

[icehole]

On 9/27/2016 at 7:40 PM, King Knut said:

 

To boot he hasn't taken steps back. 

That's ridiculous. 

 

He played 20 minutes a night against the best lines almost always starting in his own end.   Do we have any idea how good you have to be to pull off being halfway effective at that at any age?

 

Its a good contract.  We should Leave it alone and hope he scores more because it'd be nice. Not because he's a bum if he doesn't.  

 

It would be "nice" if he scored more, or it would be "needed" for him to score more?  If the flyers had a few world class snipers, scoring tons of goals, maybe I'd be happy with couturier as the 7th defenseman.  I've even suggested that maybe he should be a defenseman.  Instead, the flyers don't really have many players with the scoring touch.  I definitely don't like my second line center hesitating because he's always worried about defending.  I don't think he is confident in his skating to get back, so he always has to make sure he is in a good position.

So what is the harm in putting him back on the third line?

[King Knut]

57 minutes ago, icehole said:

It would be "nice" if he scored more, or it would be "needed" for him to score more?  If the flyers had a few world class snipers, scoring tons of goals, maybe I'd be happy with couturier as the 7th defenseman.  I've even suggested that maybe he should be a defenseman.  Instead, the flyers don't really have many players with the scoring touch.  I definitely don't like my second line center hesitating because he's always worried about defending.  I don't think he is confident in his skating to get back, so he always has to make sure he is in a good position.

So what is the harm in putting him back on the third line?

 

More Scoring would obviously be old and I honk we all expect it. 

 

Who's the 2nd line center if coots moves third?  

 

 

[OccamsRazor]

Well Hextall and Coots hasn't rid this world yet of ISIS so no way we can let them off the hook for that...

 

...so no till that is resolves the Legacy will forever be tainted!!!

 

#DAMNYOURON

[icehole]

1 hour ago, King Knut said:

 

More Scoring would obviously be old and I honk we all expect it. 

 

Who's the 2nd line center if coots moves third?  

 

 

That's probably the best rebuttal I've heard.  There's not many choices for 2nd line center.  My best answer is nobody on this current team.  I wish they would have or will get someone.

My second best answer is moving schenn to center if he wants it.

My third best answer is Laughton.  Maybe he fits or maybe not.

Just because there's no other option doesn't mean couturier fits on the second line.  He might be the best option anyway but that doesn't mean it's a good thing.  I sure won't like it.

[flyercanuck]

9 hours ago, icehole said:

That's probably the best rebuttal I've heard.  There's not many choices for 2nd line center.  My best answer is nobody on this current team.  I wish they would have or will get someone.

My second best answer is moving schenn to center if he wants it.

My third best answer is Laughton.  Maybe he fits or maybe not.

Just because there's no other option doesn't mean couturier fits on the second line.  He might be the best option anyway but that doesn't mean it's a good thing.  I sure won't like it.

 

So basically what you''re saying is Couturier is the best 2nd line centre on the team. Which is why he's playing there. 

[icehole]

56 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 

So basically what you''re saying is Couturier is the best 2nd line centre on the team. Which is why he's playing there. 

Maybe he is....  If that's the case, isn't that a blemish on Hexy's resume so far?  TK has played center before.  If couturier played right wing, would you think he is the best option for 2nd line right winger?

Are there any high prospects at the center position?  We all know a GM who didn't care about defense or goaltending.  Maybe we have one that doesn't care about centers.

If couturier plays well at 2C in year 6, yay for he and Hexy.  If he gets pushed to the third line and plays well, yay for he and the team...not yay for Hexy for paying that for a third line shut down center.  If he doesn't play very well at any position, nobody wins.

[flyercanuck]

32 minutes ago, icehole said:

Maybe he is....  If that's the case, isn't that a blemish on Hexy's resume so far?  TK has played center before.  If couturier played right wing, would you think he is the best option for 2nd line right winger?

Are there any high prospects at the center position?  We all know a GM who didn't care about defense or goaltending.  Maybe we have one that doesn't care about centers.

If couturier plays well at 2C in year 6, yay for he and Hexy.  If he gets pushed to the third line and plays well, yay for he and the team...not yay for Hexy for paying that for a third line shut down center.  If he doesn't play very well at any position, nobody wins.

 

Do you really think it's as easy as wanting a better player to actually get one? 

 

Hextall has had, IMO, two excellent drafts. He also stepped into a situation where his hands were tied due to some horrible management. he's had to rid this franchise of some plain stupid contracts. So he hardly is able to go out and sign free agents. I know you'd probably love for him to trade Provorov or Sanheim for instant help at 2nd line centre...and the Flyers could continue being mediocre, never great, forever.

 

I've personally had enough of losing our last game of the playoffs. I want to win it. 

[OccamsRazor]

42 minutes ago, icehole said:

Maybe he is....  If that's the case, isn't that a blemish on Hexy's resume so far?  TK has played center before.  If couturier played right wing, would you think he is the best option for 2nd line right winger?

Are there any high prospects at the center position?  We all know a GM who didn't care about defense or goaltending.  Maybe we have one that doesn't care about centers.

If couturier plays well at 2C in year 6, yay for he and Hexy.  If he gets pushed to the third line and plays well, yay for he and the team...not yay for Hexy for paying that for a third line shut down center.  If he doesn't play very well at any position, nobody wins.

 

 

[icehole]

18 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 

Do you really think it's as easy as wanting a better player to actually get one? 

 

Hextall has had, IMO, two excellent drafts. He also stepped into a situation where his hands were tied due to some horrible management. he's had to rid this franchise of some plain stupid contracts. So he hardly is able to go out and sign free agents. I know you'd probably love for him to trade Provorov or Sanheim for instant help at 2nd line centre...and the Flyers could continue being mediocre, never great, forever.

 

I've personally had enough of losing our last game of the playoffs. I want to win it. 

Do you really think they hired Hextall to only do the easy jobs and pull off easy moves?  Of course it's not easy but I expect the GM to make good moves.  He has made good moves but maybe just not enough of them yet.  He's also made some moves that could end up being bad moves.

I asked this before but I don't remember if I got an answer.  What sort of bad contracts did Homer pick up from Clarke?  I'm sure Clarke didn't have everything in line and they fired him for no reason.  There was some disarray and Homer fixed it pretty quickly.

[flyercanuck]

2 minutes ago, icehole said:

Do you really think they hired Hextall to only do the easy jobs and pull off easy moves?  Of course it's not easy but I expect the GM to make good moves.  He has made good moves but maybe just not enough of them yet.  He's also made some moves that could end up being bad moves.

I asked this before but I don't remember if I got an answer.  What sort of bad contracts did Homer pick up from Clarke?  I'm sure Clarke didn't have everything in line and they fired him for no reason.  There was some disarray and Homer fixed it pretty quickly.

 

 Homer gave away the future for a shot at the present. Then traded the present for the future. Then traded the future for the present. Some awesome planning there. 

 

I'm sure you can Google what Clarke left Holmgren. I can't be bothered.

 

I love watching a team be built...instead of bought.

[OccamsRazor]

13 minutes ago, icehole said:

Do you really think they hired Hextall to only do the easy jobs and pull off easy moves?  Of course it's not easy but I expect the GM to make good moves.  He has made good moves but maybe just not enough of them yet.  He's also made some moves that could end up being bad moves.

I asked this before but I don't remember if I got an answer.  What sort of bad contracts did Homer pick up from Clarke?  I'm sure Clarke didn't have everything in line and they fired him for no reason.  There was some disarray and Homer fixed it pretty quickly.

 

 

Didn't he get the Hatcher and Rathje contracts after Clarke quit...then had to fire Hitchcock right or do i have the wrong year?

 

Same year he traded Zhitnik for Cobun.

[brelic]

6 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 

 Homer gave away the future for a shot at the present. Then traded the present for the future. Then traded the future for the present. Some awesome planning there. 

 

I'm sure you can Google what Clarke left Holmgren. I can't be bothered.

 

I love watching a team be built...instead of bought.

 

I agree. I feel the same way. And that's maybe where you and @icehole differ in terms of expectations.

 

Different people want different things out of sports. 

 

 

[icehole]

1 minute ago, brelic said:

 

I agree. I feel the same way. And that's maybe where you and @icehole differ in terms of expectations.

 

Different people want different things out of sports. 

 

 

That's very true.  To me, there isn't too much difference between building a team and buying a team.  I try to convey that it my posts because I feel like there is way too much Homer bashing and way too much Hexy jock sniffing.  Homer's way had some success and was exciting.  Hexy's way might do the same thing.  The difference is, I was excited for every season under Homer.  The past 2 seasons have been lackluster for me, and this year's anticipation is at an all-time low.  I'm fighting with the wife about basically paying $100 a month to watch the flyers on cable, but now I'm wondering if I should even fight that fight.

And maybe I do want something different.  To me a championship is great for about a month and then it's just a stat that most people forget.  A season is 7-9 months of ups and downs.  I would rather have those 7-9 months be exciting at the expense of that 1 month party that I'll soon forget.  I'm more of a "journey" guy than a "destination" guy.

Maybe in three years we'll have the core of players that we can just exchange pieces and be excited year after year.  Maybe we'll also see a few cups after that.  I'll get right back on here and wear Hexy's jock on my face.  Right now, I'm just not on board.  Everyone praises patience...be patient before praising Hextall before we start seeing results. 

[OccamsRazor]

23 minutes ago, brelic said:

 

I agree. I feel the same way. And that's maybe where you and @icehole differ in terms of expectations.

 

Different people want different things out of sports. 

 

 

 

 

You can put me in that group too as FC.

 

I admit i love building it from the ground up mostly through the draft. Sure a free agent here or there too.

 

But i love watching the home grown talent grow and achieve the ultimate goal.

 

One day i hope to see it i'll be 45 soon i ain't getting any younger i've seen the Flyers try to buy one and i have yet to see a Cup...so now i want to try something new. Grow one.

 

The downside is it takes time. No way around it. We'll see soon.

[brelic]

20 minutes ago, icehole said:

 I'm more of a "journey" guy than a "destination" guy.

 

Maybe in three years we'll have the core of players that we can just exchange pieces and be excited year after year.  

 

I"m more of a journey guy too, and I think your next sentence shows how Hextall's approach can give you what you're looking for. 

 

I'd say two more seasons until there is a steady supply of ready-talent on the farm ready to *really* steal jobs. Not just because a young player is less mediocre than the dreck we signed in the offseason to a bloated contract. But because he was well-scouted and is pushing the envelope for the vets.

 

 

[mojo1917]

I was pleasantly surprised by last year's result.  I thought once the boys learned what the coach wanted they were fairly entertaining to watch and not a whole lot of fun for the opposition to play against. At this point that's my expectation.  Had both Ghost and G not gotten hurt maybe the Flyers win around in the playoffs, the goaltending was certainly good enough.

 

The quality 1-12 and 1-8 just isn't there yet, but I see hope, Travis Konecky looks pretty promising, he's dynamic and fast. Nick Cousins has really transformed himself and looks like solid bottom six player who can get some points.   Travis Sanhiem looks way more comfortable playing against men than last year.  Robert Hagg looks like you can set him and forget him and you need that kind of guy on your team. I haven't even mentioned the last 2 first rounders....  I am feeling pretty good about the direction of the team.  Our boys probably won't contend for a cup this year, but they'll suck to play against, and will win more than they lose, I'm okay with that so long as the talent keeps refreshing and improving the roster.

[flyercanuck]

2 hours ago, icehole said:

That's very true.  To me, there isn't too much difference between building a team and buying a team.  I try to convey that it my posts because I feel like there is way too much Homer bashing and way too much Hexy jock sniffing.  Homer's way had some success and was exciting.  Hexy's way might do the same thing.  The difference is, I was excited for every season under Homer.  The past 2 seasons have been lackluster for me, and this year's anticipation is at an all-time low.  I'm fighting with the wife about basically paying $100 a month to watch the flyers on cable, but now I'm wondering if I should even fight that fight.

And maybe I do want something different.  To me a championship is great for about a month and then it's just a stat that most people forget.  A season is 7-9 months of ups and downs.  I would rather have those 7-9 months be exciting at the expense of that 1 month party that I'll soon forget.  I'm more of a "journey" guy than a "destination" guy.

Maybe in three years we'll have the core of players that we can just exchange pieces and be excited year after year.  Maybe we'll also see a few cups after that.  I'll get right back on here and wear Hexy's jock on my face.  Right now, I'm just not on board.  Everyone praises patience...be patient before praising Hextall before we start seeing results. 

 

 

You say you're more of a "journey" guy...yet you want success right now. i'd say you're more of a destination guy than a journey guy. A journey guy would want to follow it through from start to finish. I really don't get that from you. You seem to have zero patience with prospects.

 

I like what Hextalls doing because THAT is what I've wanted the Flyers to do for a decade now. Build a team that can be good for a long time. 

 

I guess buying out old washed up players you signed to longterm contracts is kind of exciting. Just be thankful the league gave Homer a few amnesty buyouts and Hextall took care of some other godawful contracts...or we'd be the Leafs when Burke was running the show.

 

Picture this team with Bryz in net til 2020. How exciting that would be? Of course we likely wouldn't have Provorov or Konecny  or Sanheim to look forward to...probably just more washed up vets contracts we wished we didn't have. But man is that exciting.

[icehole]

31 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 

 

You say you're more of a "journey" guy...yet you want success right now. i'd say you're more of a destination guy than a journey guy. A journey guy would want to follow it through from start to finish. I really don't get that from you. You seem to have zero patience with prospects.

 

I like what Hextalls doing because THAT is what I've wanted the Flyers to do for a decade now. Build a team that can be good for a long time. 

 

I guess buying out old washed up players you signed to longterm contracts is kind of exciting. Just be thankful the league gave Homer a few amnesty buyouts and Hextall took care of some other godawful contracts...or we'd be the Leafs when Burke was running the show.

 

Picture this team with Bryz in net til 2020. How exciting that would be? Of course we likely wouldn't have Provorov or Konecny  or Sanheim to look forward to...probably just more washed up vets contracts we wished we didn't have. But man is that exciting.

When I say "journey", I mean the journey of the season, not the destination of a championship.  I like the journey of each season but the 5 year journey to become relevant again is taking its toll on me.

Bryz was probably the worst mistake a GM has made.  I don't know what anyone saw in him.  There was nothing he was good at.

If it weren't for Homer, we wouldn't have Voracek, Simmonds, Ghost, and Mr Selke himself.  Nevermind....now I hate Homer!

[Podein25]

11 minutes ago, icehole said:

When I say "journey", I mean the journey of the season, not the destination of a championship.

 

[DaGreatGazoo]

31 minutes ago, Podein25 said:

 

Greatest.  Video.  Ever. 

 

 

[Podein25]

10 minutes ago, DaGreatGazoo said:

Greatest.  Video.  Ever.

 

I'm hard pressed to disagree

[flyercanuck]

22 minutes ago, DaGreatGazoo said:

Greatest.  Video.  Ever. 

 

 

 

My God that is just soooo awesome. 

[flyercanuck]

1 hour ago, icehole said:

When I say "journey", I mean the journey of the season, not the destination of a championship.  I like the journey of each season but the 5 year journey to become relevant again is taking its toll on me.

Bryz was probably the worst mistake a GM has made.  I don't know what anyone saw in him.  There was nothing he was good at.

If it weren't for Homer, we wouldn't have Voracek, Simmonds, Ghost, and Mr Selke himself.  Nevermind....now I hate Homer!

 

Right. So he's trading away draft picks like a madman to win now. Then he trades his top two centres for prospects and picks. Then he brings in Bryz to win now and sends the first good goalie prospect the Flyers have had in years away. Genius. Pure genius. 

 

So were we rebuilding or going for it? Homer sure as hell didn't know.

[icehole]

3 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 

Right. So he's trading away draft picks like a madman to win now. Then he trades his top two centres for prospects and picks. Then he brings in Bryz to win now and sends the first good goalie prospect the Flyers have had in years away. Genius. Pure genius. 

 

So were we rebuilding or going for it? Homer sure as hell didn't know.

When they made 2 2nd rounds, 1 ECF, and 1 Final, were you excited?  I know I was thinking "we just came back from 0-3 in the series and 0-3 in the game to go to the ECF, but I wish there were more prospects in the system".  I also told my group of friends when we were watching game 6 of the finals "guys we're 2 games away from winning a cup...I think we need a slower, timid guy who has trouble scoring, to be the best defensive forward on the second line".

You must not have been one of those fans who renamed Carter "high and wide"?  And I guess Simmonds and Schenn aren't good value for a pill dealer who left hockey for a while?

BTW, just because Homer didn't draft well, he brought in some young talent.  In some ways, he just bypassed the process of weeding out the picks that can't play.  Other teams spent their picks and Homer grabbed them without giving up too much.  Draft picks are usually a crappie shoot because you don't know if they can handle the NHL.