Flyers should extend Ghost right now....

[King Knut]

1 hour ago, murraycraven said:

 

And that is why I am on both sides of the fence here...   I do think he is going to be a force this year.   And again, I think he is only get better...   Maybe is the accountant in me but I really feel that a player should be paid when they are up for a contract and not before.   With that said I would not be upset if they did extend him that year....

 

I am happily wishy washy when it comes to Ghost.   I think he really is a special player and maybe you are right.   You have a very valid point.

 

I'm wishy-washy too.  I've argued both sides.  And I've convinced myself twice.  

 

Long story short I guess we see how it's going in a few months.  Locking up players mid season has worked well in the past.  Jake was a bit of a mistake and an outlier. Hopefully. 

[radoran]

3 hours ago, King Knut said:

I dont mind trading Hartsy.  It's just hard not to imagine there were better deals to be had though.  I still feel like there's more to that story that we'll never hear.

 

I have felt this way since the beginning.

[ruxpin]

On 10/2/2016 at 9:23 AM, Poconono said:

It's part of one great year.  Paying him superstar money for that small a sampling would be insane.  Thank God you guys aren't investment counselors.

 

I used to be.   And Enron seemed like really good advice at the time.

[ruxpin]

4 hours ago, murraycraven said:

 

And that is why I am on both sides of the fence here...   I do think he is going to be a force this year.   And again, I think he is only get better...   Maybe is the accountant in me but I really feel that a player should be paid when they are up for a contract and not before.   With that said I would not be upset if they did extend him that year....

 

I am happily wishy washy when it comes to Ghost.   I think he really is a special player and maybe you are right.   You have a very valid point.

I really like Ghost, of course.   But I wait until his contract is coming up.

[jammer2]

 Hey guys, did Jake read all our griping yesterday about his contract or what?  That boy ate his wheaties for the NYR!!

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, jammer2 said:

 Hey guys, did Jake read all our griping yesterday about his contract or what?  That boy ate his wheaties for the NYR!!

 

 

He actually is in the best shape of his life he looks good.

 

 

I posted awhile back some gifs of him doing the JJ Watt box jumps.....Jake from last year couldn't hqve done those. So i expect a bounce season from here this year. 

[jammer2]

3 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

He actually is in the best shape of his life he looks good.

 

 

I posted awhile back some gifs of him doing the JJ Watt box jumps.....Jake from last year couldn't hqve done those. So i expect a bounce season from here this year. 

 

By bounce back do you mean 10 pts before Christmas?

[OccamsRazor]

2 minutes ago, jammer2 said:

 

By bounce back do you mean 10 pts before Christmas?

 

 

No.

 

I mean 12 points before Christmas!!!!! Baby steps!!!

 

 

[murraycraven]

2 hours ago, jammer2 said:

 Hey guys, did Jake read all our griping yesterday about his contract or what?  That boy ate his wheaties for the NYR!!

 

that was a nice game by Jake and to finish off OT that way looked great.

[radoran]

11 hours ago, ruxpin said:

I really like Ghost, of course.   But I wait until his contract is coming up.

 

The contract is coming up. The window for negotiation opened July 1.

[canoli]

22 hours ago, radoran said:

 

The contract is coming up. The window for negotiation opened July 1.

 

Right, no offer sheets till July but I imagine Ghost will hear plenty of conversations starting with "I'll bet you could get $$$ from xyzTEAM" and "I heard xyzGM plans to offer-sheet you" etc. from players who'd love to have him on their PP, etc. And not only players, owner's "friends" who happen to know someone who knows Ghost... A guy this exciting who puts asses in the seats is on every team's radar.

 

I tried to find the rules about teams talking to other team's players but google let me down. I'm sure they can't do anything official before FA opens but unofficially? Word of mouth, hint:hint, what-if? SG will be hearing some variation of that until the Flyers re-sign him.

 

We all know he's played just 60-odd NHL games: "superstar money" isn't on the table. So how about a huge Thank You We Expect the World From You contract? Stop the rumor mill before it gets traction, put SG and his family (and his agent) at ease and get on with the business of playing great hockey for the FLYERS!

 

[edit: to clarify a bit - I'm not saying offer him this contract now or next week. But certainly by Christmas. As for the numbers...somewhere around $22.5mil over 4 years. That gets him to 27 and UFA territory I think.]

[OccamsRazor]

15 minutes ago, canoli said:

 

Right, no offer sheets till July but I imagine Ghost will hear plenty of conversations starting with "I'll bet you could get $$$ from xyzTEAM" and "I heard xyzGM plans to offer-sheet you" etc. from players who'd love to have him on their PP, etc. And not only players, owner's "friends" who happen to know someone who knows Ghost... A guy this exciting who puts asses in the seats is on every team's radar.

 

I tried to find the rules about teams talking to other team's players but google let me down. I'm sure they can't do anything official before FA opens but unofficially? Word of mouth, hint:hint, what-if? SG will be hearing some variation of that until the Flyers re-sign him.

 

We all know he's played just 60-odd NHL games: "superstar money" isn't on the table. So how about a huge Thank You We Expect the World From You contract? Stop the rumor mill before it gets traction, put SG and his family (and his agent) at ease and get on with the business of playing great hockey for the FLYERS!

 

[edit: to clarify a bit - I'm not saying offer him this contract now or next week. But certainly by Christmas. As for the numbers...somewhere around $22.5mil over 4 years. That gets him to 27 and UFA territory I think.]

 

Yes a nice bridge deal i all most of us are saying no need to throw out a 8 year deal right now.

 

A deal like Brayden signed thank you but we need to see a little more from you 4 year like deal!!!

[canoli]

2 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

Yes a nice bridge deal i all most of us are saying no need to throw out a 8 year deal right now.

 

Yes and I'd call it a very nice bridge deal if he gets $22.5 over 4 years. That's $5.625/year, which is a helluva big salary for a player who, as exciting and effective as he's been has only played ~70 NHL games.

[OccamsRazor]

3 minutes ago, canoli said:

 

Yes and I'd call it a very nice bridge deal if he gets $22.5 over 4 years. That's $5.625/year, which is a helluva big salary for a player who, as exciting and effective as he's been has only played ~70 NHL games.

 

 

Yes i wish they could sign Ghost to a Connor Murphy like deal but realistically he is going to sign a deal closer to Tyson Barrie...

 

Connor Murphy:

 

CURRENT CONTRACT

Source: @craigsmorgan 

Cap Hit: $3,850,000
AAV: $3,850,000
Total Value: $23,100,000
Length: 6 years
Type: Standard
Expiry Status: UFA
Find Comparable Contracts 
Buyout this ContractYearNHL SalaryAHL SalaryPerformance BonusSigning Bonus2016-17$2,400,000———2017-18$4,600,000———2018-19$4,500,000———2019-20$4,400,000———2020-21$3,200,000———2021-22$4,000,000———

 

Tyson Barrie:

 

CURRENT CONTRACT

Source: @tfrei 

Cap Hit: $5,500,000
AAV: $5,500,000
Total Value: $22,000,000
Length: 4 years
Type: Standard
Expiry Status: UFA
Find Comparable Contracts 
Buyout this ContractYearNHL SalaryAHL SalaryPerformance BonusSigning Bonus2016-17$5,000,000———2017-18$5,250,000———2018-19$5,750,000———2019-20$6,000,000———

[canoli]

Ya Barrie is a good comparison as far as production, team role, etc. The obvious difference of course is it took Barrie a couple years to produce what Ghost did in his rookie season. Not knocking Barrie, the opportunity to play big minutes wasn't there for him early on the way it was for Ghost. In any case Barrie's 4 years is a body of work with a trajectory of point-production going the right way whereas Ghost is still a bit of a question mark.

 

No matter - Ghost's next contract will be a gamble and the Flyers shouldn't hedge their bet by waiting too long.

[no1sjsharksfan]

On 10/3/2016 at 6:21 PM, radoran said:

 

Kopitar makes $10M which I, as a person who likes Kopitar, don't really think he is worth. Stamkos will be making $250K more than Voracek for the duration of their deals.

 

And I should go amend my post in the "Legacy" thread to add keeping Lavvy for seven games rather than making a rational coaching change over the summer and hiring the best hockey mind Homer knew as coach to run the team further into the ground.

 

And, again, I do hope Giroux/Voracek works out and do believe that it can. 

 

I think that line misses Hartnell something fierce and they would be much better off had they kept Hartnell and bred Schenn and Couturier onto the second line. Yes. He takes bad penalties and yes he's in decline but he still put up 23/49 "in the doghouse" in Columbus.

 

Don't make that deal and you've got 25 goals a season. Make that deal and you get to buy out RJ Umburglar. 

 

And maybe you don'toverpay Jake...

 

On 10/3/2016 at 7:13 PM, King Knut said:

 

Thats what hat I thought on Kopy, but I didn't have time to look it up.  That's too much for anyone IMHO and he's a great great complete player.  

 

Jake has some living up to do in light of the Stamkos deal.  

 

And the other way of looking at the Hartnell deal is that they weren't winning anything for two years anyway and this way we get to resign MDZ and Ghost if we want to and if we're lucky maybe just maybe improve the top 6 in free agency this July. 

 

All three Ain't happening with Hartsy on the books for two more years.  

 

On on the other hand we could have had two productive years out of G that still ended in first round losses or missed playoffs. 

 

I dont mind trading Hartsy.  It's just hard not to imagine there were better deals to be had though.  I still feel like there's more to that story that we'll never hear. 

 

 

 

Keep in mind Stamkos has been injured quite a bit lately. I think that played into the money Stamkos got. Yeah, he is a BIG time goal scorer, but if he is hurt for 20% of the season, you are not getting good value for the $10 mil that Kopitar gets.

[King Knut]

3 minutes ago, no1sjsharksfan said:

 

 

Keep in mind Stamkos has been injured quite a bit lately. I think that played into the money Stamkos got. Yeah, he is a BIG time goal scorer, but if he is hurt for 20% of the season, you are not getting good value for the $10 mil that Kopitar gets.

 

I was concerned about Stamkos and I figured that's why he signed for what he did.  We got a lot of good years out of Kimmo after his first blood clot, but still, it's scary.  You don't want to see a guy playing with that danger.  He's missed significant time twice in an 8 year career.  Three times if you count that last year's lost time happened at a really bad time for the team.  

 

But I think he's a guy who gets 8+ million.

 I agree that even Anze who gives you a complete game that few around the league can is overpaid.  

 

IMHO there just aren't any players dominant enough in today's game to be worth 10 million+

 

I'd guess Kane and Toews are probably the most highly paid players who are close to worth what they get.

 

If Giroux can get his point totals back up into the 80's, while continuing to play the complete game we've relied on him for, He'll be there.

 

If Jake can play responsibly and take over a game for a big time goal like he did in OT against the Rangers with some consistency, then I'll shut up about his salary too.  

 

 

 

 

 

[radoran]

2 minutes ago, no1sjsharksfan said:

Keep in mind Stamkos has been injured quite a bit lately. I think that played into the money Stamkos got. Yeah, he is a BIG time goal scorer, but if he is hurt for 20% of the season, you are not getting good value for the $10 mil that Kopitar gets.

 

Stamkos played 77 games last season and all 82 the season before that.

 

He scored 79 goals and 136 points in 159 games over the past two seasons. I'll take that for $8.5M

 

And, again, I like Kopitar but I just don't think that 25-30 goals and 70 points is a "$10M player" (I am aware that Toews has the same situation - I'm not a huge fan of his contract, either).

 

The difference for me with Stamkos is the goal scoring. Kopitar has 41 goals in the past two seasons. Stamkos had 43 in 14-15 and 36 more last season. He's also three years younger than Kopitar.

 

Barring injury, I think Tampa will be happier with a 34 year old Stamkos making $8.5M than LA will with a 37 year old Kopitar making $10M.

[radoran]

3 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

I was concerned about Stamkos and I figured that's why he signed for what he did.  We got a lot of good years out of Kimmo after his first blood clot, but still, it's scary.  You don't want to see a guy playing with that danger.  He's missed significant time twice in an 8 year career.  Three times if you count that last year's lost time happened at a really bad time for the team. 

 

He played 37 games in 13-14. Aside from that one year, he's missed eight other regular season games in his career.

 

No doubt it sucked last season for Tampa with the timing, but Yzerman insists that there is no long-term effect on his health or career from the syndrome.

 

I really think Stamkos is one of the best value for money deals in the league.

[no1sjsharksfan]

22 hours ago, radoran said:

 

Stamkos played 77 games last season and all 82 the season before that.

 

He scored 79 goals and 136 points in 159 games over the past two seasons. I'll take that for $8.5M

 

And, again, I like Kopitar but I just don't think that 25-30 goals and 70 points is a "$10M player" (I am aware that Toews has the same situation - I'm not a huge fan of his contract, either).

 

The difference for me with Stamkos is the goal scoring. Kopitar has 41 goals in the past two seasons. Stamkos had 43 in 14-15 and 36 more last season. He's also three years younger than Kopitar.

 

Barring injury, I think Tampa will be happier with a 34 year old Stamkos making $8.5M than LA will with a 37 year old Kopitar making $10M.

 

And he broke his leg the year before that. And he couldn't play in the playoffs this year. (Ten minutes against the Penguins doesn't count for much). And he look awful in the World Cup. Kopitar has not missed less than 10 games in a full season in the NHL. He doesn't have the reoccuring health issues Stamkos does.

 

Yeah, Stamkos for $8.5 mil/year is a steal, if he stays relatively healthy till 34. Both players will probably be in the "overpaid" category at the end of their contracts.

[radoran]

Just now, no1sjsharksfan said:

 

And he broke his leg the year before that. And he couldn't play in the playoffs this year. (Ten minutes against the Penguins doesn't count for much). And he look awful in the World Cup. Kopitar has not missed less than 10 games in a full season in the NHL. He doesn't have the reoccuring health issues Stamkos does.

 

Yeah, Stamkos for $8.5 mil/year is a steal, if he stays relatively healthy till 34. Both players will probably be in the "overpaid" category at the end of their contracts.

 

I was responding to a post that indicated he had missed significant time in two seasons plus last season.

 

Aside from the year he broke his leg, he's missed eight total regular season games.

 

Broken legs are freak things that do happen. They rarely "recur" once healed. It's not like a recurring groin injury. He played 209 consecutive games after coming back from the leg.

 

And the blood problem - according to all medical accounts - is not going to be a long term disability

 

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/stamkos-lightning-vascular-surgery-recovery-1.3541013

Quote

This particular kind of blood clot differs from those suffered by retired Pittsburgh forward Pascal Dupuis, former Penguins goaltender Tomas Vokoun or Philadelphia Flyers defenceman Kimmo Timonen. Dupuis had to stop playing after complications from major knee surgery led to clotting in his lungs, Vokoun had a genetic condition that worsened with travel and Timonen had a blocked shot combined with a hereditary blood disorder keep him off the ice.

Stamkos had an issue with a vein trapped between two bones - one of which has been removed.

 

That said, I'd still take Stamkos for $8.5M 11 times out of 10 over Kopitar at $10M.

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, no1sjsharksfan said:

 

And he broke his leg the year before that. And he couldn't play in the playoffs this year. (Ten minutes against the Penguins doesn't count for much). And he look awful in the World Cup. Kopitar has not missed less than 10 games in a full season in the NHL. He doesn't have the reoccuring health issues Stamkos does.

 

Yeah, Stamkos for $8.5 mil/year is a steal, if he stays relatively healthy till 34. Both players will probably be in the "overpaid" category at the end of their contracts.

 

 

You can't label someone who breaks a bone as injury prone. Not much you can do about that.

 

Injury prone is more in the conditioning realm like soft tissue injuries (hamstrings and back issues) those you can label more as injury prone. Not taking care of yourself/staying in shape.

 

Breaking a bone isn't in that category.

[OccamsRazor]

Could we see Ghost sign a small bridge deal like Trouba did.

 

 

I know there are 2 in age difference and all but just wondering aloud not every deal has to be 6-8 years.

 

Or should they try to lock him up for long term before he does go up in cost?

 

Anyways nothing else to talk about this a.m. i would like to give Coots, Ivan and the goaltenders a rest.....