Game #17 - Senators (3) at Flyers (2) - Nov 15, 2016 @ 7:00 ET

[OccamsRazor]

Hak has to stop playing so damn conservative in the OT periods why in the hell would you not give two of your best young players playing time in OT???

 

 

No Ivan or TK??

 

YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME!!!!!

 

 

[mojo1917]

This was a bad loss IMO.

the only time they trailed was shot 5 of the shoot out.

That goal by Mason was bad, whether his skate was stuck on the cage, or he was playing a pass ?  he looked terrible, like he wasn't paying attention. I thought our PK was pretty good, it is interesting to me to see Simmonds on the the second pk unit and seeing how well he plays there.

as for the PPs there were some good chances, I'd like to think some of the bad luck the Flyers have experienced will turn around at some point,and then I see Karlsson and Stone **** up a 2 on ZERO in the OT and think well the O & B isn't totally snakebitten.

 

interesting to me that everyone tried to go stick side on Anderson in the SO , i would have thought that after G got stoned on a pretty good move maybe someone thinks to try something else.

[Samifan]

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

It is another reason i would move Streit right now.

 

This is suppose to be what he is being kept around for and he does nada.

 

He plays zero minutes on the PK so his speciality is the PP....and i'm sorry i think the Flyers could get just as much or even more maybe by giving Manning some time on the PP and just moving Streit sooner than later.

 

Hell make some space and try a one dimensional guy like Brennan even but don't keep this guy around just because.

 

That one point that Mase pissed away could of had them sitting at 9th in the conference.

 

Instead they are at 13th.

In addition to all of the points you have mentioned, What the hell was Hakstol doing putting Streit out there in OT? He is way to slow to be out there with that much open ice and fast tempo.

 

Flyers New Slogan for 2016-17: Points Pissed Away!

[ruxpin]

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

No Ivan or TK??

 

I was literally screaming at the TV during OT.   It ticks me off that the best player in regulation (TK) sits on the bench in overtime--every damn time.   Bellemare?  Really?  Actually, I don't have as much problem with him as jello-shoe boy (Couturier) in OT.   TK has the speed and clearly has the ice sense.  Put him out there!   He creates and looks awesome on every shift.

 

I get Streit, but I, too, would throw Provorov out there.  I think the call there is because of lack of experience, but NOW is the time to give him that!  I guess, too, I get the argument about not hurting his confidence by exposing him to likely mistakes, but I think I do it anyway.

 

And don't get me started with the shootout choices.  

 

All that aside, the 2 on none with Karlsson and Turris might be one of the most ridiculous things I've ever seen.  I mean, good on Mason, but they looked stupid.

[icehole]

44 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

I was literally screaming at the TV during OT.   It ticks me off that the best player in regulation (TK) sits on the bench in overtime--every damn time.   Bellemare?  Really?  Actually, I don't have as much problem with him as jello-shoe boy (Couturier) in OT.   TK has the speed and clearly has the ice sense.  Put him out there!   He creates and looks awesome on every shift.

 

I get Streit, but I, too, would throw Provorov out there.  I think the call there is because of lack of experience, but NOW is the time to give him that!  I guess, too, I get the argument about not hurting his confidence by exposing him to likely mistakes, but I think I do it anyway.

 

And don't get me started with the shootout choices.  

 

All that aside, the 2 on none with Karlsson and Turris might be one of the most ridiculous things I've ever seen.  I mean, good on Mason, but they looked stupid.

I wasnt paying close attention (I was pre-occupied) so I didn't notice TK not being out there.  Now that you mention it though, I did make a note in my head that Bellemare was out there for one or maybe even two shifts in OT.  That makes no sense at all.

 

Let me just throw this out there...what does Hak contribute to make the team better?  I have trouble putting my finger on what his style is.  The general system isn't bad...but it's not good either.  It's sort of just a blah, identityless system.  I only notice his game management when he makes bone head moves like playing couturier on the 2nd line night in and night out even though he clearly doesn't fit.  He played neuvirth like 4 games in a row even though he struggled (not that Mason is better).  He scratches manning for Schultz.  I don't think vandavelde has missed a game since Hak was coach.  He doesn't give provorov a night off even though he struggles.  He seems to have faith in streit.  Bellemare gets way too much playing time.  And now, he doesn't seem to know that TK may be the most offensively gifted player on the team.  Does he even make any decisions during the game?  It seems like he just goes through practice, fills out the lineup card, and stands stone face behind the bench.

 

I need a coach that will get a little more involved and have a definitive system.

[King Knut]

19 hours ago, RJ8812 said:

Cousins should be centering that 3rd line, not Bellemare. 

make it so!

[fanaticV3.0]

1 hour ago, ruxpin said:

 

I was literally screaming at the TV during OT.   It ticks me off that the best player in regulation (TK) sits on the bench in overtime--every damn time.   Bellemare?  Really?  Actually, I don't have as much problem with him as jello-shoe boy (Couturier) in OT.   TK has the speed and clearly has the ice sense.  Put him out there!   He creates and looks awesome on every shift.

 

I get Streit, but I, too, would throw Provorov out there.  I think the call there is because of lack of experience, but NOW is the time to give him that!  I guess, too, I get the argument about not hurting his confidence by exposing him to likely mistakes, but I think I do it anyway.

 

And don't get me started with the shootout choices.  

 

All that aside, the 2 on none with Karlsson and Turris might be one of the most ridiculous things I've ever seen.  I mean, good on Mason, but they looked stupid.

 

That little bugger or has got some moves doesn't he?

 

In regards to my first point, and the shoot out choices, is it time to fire the coach yet?

[King Knut]

4 minutes ago, icehole said:

I wasnt paying close attention (I was pre-occupied) so I didn't notice TK not being out there.  Now that you mention it though, I did make a note in my head that Bellemare was out there for one or maybe even two shifts in OT.  That makes no sense at all.

 

Let me just throw this out there...what does Hak contribute to make the team better?  I have trouble putting my finger on what his style is.  The general system isn't bad...but it's not good either.  It's sort of just a blah, identityless system.  I only notice his game management when he makes bone head moves like playing couturier on the 2nd line night in and night out even though he clearly doesn't fit.  He played neuvirth like 4 games in a row even though he struggled (not that Mason is better).  He scratches manning for Schultz.  I don't think vandavelde has missed a game since Hak was coach.  He doesn't give provorov a night off even though he struggles.  He seems to have faith in streit.  Bellemare gets way too much playing time.  And now, he doesn't seem to know that TK may be the most offensively gifted player on the team.  Does he even make any decisions during the game?  It seems like he just goes through practice, fills out the lineup card, and stands stone face behind the bench.

 

I need a coach that will get a little more involved and have a definitive system.

 

Not to jump on the attack the coach bandwagon, but I've been wondering where Hak's head is at as well.  

Last year it was all about "SYSTEM SYSTEM SYSTEM".  Jake and G had horrible years trying to play the Hak system.

 

This year, system seems to have gone out the window.  Hak seems to be as confused as anyone as to how to play with this team he's been handed and frankly I'm confused by that because two rookies should not be causing this much confusion.  

 

Weise is new, but he's there to give G more time int he other end.  That shouldn't be causing any problems. 

 

Couturier DOES belong on the second line, the problem is he broke up the version of the 2nd line that was working.  Coots and Simmonds on the same line just isn't going to work as well.  He needs skaters to create room, not another player like himself.  

 

I sympathize with hak on defense.  I really do.  Schultz needs to be out there.  His game is what the defense has been lacking.  He's a complement to skating puck movers like MDZ, Ghost and Streit and I think Provo (though others argue that Provo can play his own end well, I argue that he has neither the size or experience to complement a more offensively minded guy like Ghost or Streit).   That said, Manning has been a bit lights out and has been stealing thunder.  So Essentially Hak's faced with a no win choice.  He should really be playing Schultz AND Manning AND Gudas.  He can't do that and keep Provo, Streit, MDZ and Ghost in the lineup (who are clearly too valuable not to leave out).  Until Hextall can trade Streit or Schultz or Mac, this won't change.  There are just too many D men.  This time next year, the majority of these guys will be long gone In the mean time, it's a problem.  

 

VDV needs to be out.  Absolutely.  TK NEEDS to be in OT and the shootout, ABSOLUTELY.

I understand the urge to play two way guys like Coots in OT, and he can surely do that, but for goodness sake, just roll more lines!  TK on that much open ice?  The kid was born for it.  

[King Knut]

2 hours ago, mojo1917 said:

This was a bad loss IMO.

the only time they trailed was shot 5 of the shoot out.

That goal by Mason was bad, whether his skate was stuck on the cage, or he was playing a pass ?  he looked terrible, like he wasn't paying attention. I thought our PK was pretty good, it is interesting to me to see Simmonds on the the second pk unit and seeing how well he plays there.

as for the PPs there were some good chances, I'd like to think some of the bad luck the Flyers have experienced will turn around at some point,and then I see Karlsson and Stone **** up a 2 on ZERO in the OT and think well the O & B isn't totally snakebitten.

 

interesting to me that everyone tried to go stick side on Anderson in the SO , i would have thought that after G got stoned on a pretty good move maybe someone thinks to try something else.

 

Mason had a good night, but once again, looked utterly lost when it counted most.  

How do you get caught with both your skates outside your own cage with the attack that close in with 2 minutes left?  WTF?

 

WE NEED REESE!!!!!

[ruxpin]

2 minutes ago, fanaticV3.0 said:

In regards to my first point, and the shoot out choices, is it time to fire the coach yet?

 

Sorry, that's next year.   This year is goalie, remember?

[fanaticV3.0]

1 minute ago, ruxpin said:

 

Sorry, that's next year.   This year is goalie, remember?

 

Can it ever be both? It seems like both this year.

[ruxpin]

4 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

Not to jump on the attack the coach bandwagon, but I've been wondering where Hak's head is at as well.  

Last year it was all about "SYSTEM SYSTEM SYSTEM".  Jake and G had horrible years trying to play the Hak system.

 

This year, system seems to have gone out the window.  Hak seems to be as confused as anyone as to how to play with this team he's been handed and frankly I'm confused by that because two rookies should not be causing this much confusion.  

 

Weise is new, but he's there to give G more time int he other end.  That shouldn't be causing any problems. 

 

Couturier DOES belong on the second line, the problem is he broke up the version of the 2nd line that was working.  Coots and Simmonds on the same line just isn't going to work as well.  He needs skaters to create room, not another player like himself.  

 

I sympathize with hak on defense.  I really do.  Schultz needs to be out there.  His game is what the defense has been lacking.  He's a complement to skating puck movers like MDZ, Ghost and Streit and I think Provo (though others argue that Provo can play his own end well, I argue that he has neither the size or experience to complement a more offensively minded guy like Ghost or Streit).   That said, Manning has been a bit lights out and has been stealing thunder.  So Essentially Hak's faced with a no win choice.  He should really be playing Schultz AND Manning AND Gudas.  He can't do that and keep Provo, Streit, MDZ and Ghost in the lineup (who are clearly too valuable not to leave out).  Until Hextall can trade Streit or Schultz or Mac, this won't change.  There are just too many D men.  This time next year, the majority of these guys will be long gone In the mean time, it's a problem.  

 

VDV needs to be out.  Absolutely.  TK NEEDS to be in OT and the shootout, ABSOLUTELY.

I understand the urge to play two way guys like Coots in OT, and he can surely do that, but for goodness sake, just roll more lines!  TK on that much open ice?  The kid was born for it.  

 

I'm completely with you.  I've wondered about Hak.  To add to your point, Manning has been lights out but was a healthy scratch anyway.   Unless they were playing someone else to shop the other player, there was no excuse to bench him.  (The other possibility was that Manning made a mistake the game before that was of the careless variety and Hak was simply teaching a lesson).

 

Two other things:

1) Weise is definitely there to try to give Giroux more time in the other end.   Weise has been completely worthless.   I don't know what to do about that other than stick Schenn on 2nd line center and drop Couturier and Bellemare each down a line.  I didn't quite understand either the Weise or Gordon signing when they were done.   I'm still looking for a reason.

 

2) VDV:  I'm with you, and yours seems to be the prevailing view.   But he's not a liability and eats up some time for fairly cheap.  I won't remember him the minute after he leaves the roster, but ultimately he doesn't bother me.   Oddly, when they had him paired with Schenn (who had no business on the fourth line--another thing that had me questioning Hak), he actually showed some offense.  I don't think that would continue on a regular basis, but..    Yeah, I'm okay with him, but he's as replaceable as anyone sitting in the stands.

[ruxpin]

4 minutes ago, fanaticV3.0 said:

 

Can it ever be both? It seems like both this year.

 

I don't think that's ever been tried. Apart from throwing off the balance in the force, I don't see why not.

 

On the other hand, Hak is Hextall's first hire as GM.  I think he'll get a lot of rope.

[icehole]

5 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

Not to jump on the attack the coach bandwagon, but I've been wondering where Hak's head is at as well.  

Last year it was all about "SYSTEM SYSTEM SYSTEM".  Jake and G had horrible years trying to play the Hak system.

 

This year, system seems to have gone out the window.  Hak seems to be as confused as anyone as to how to play with this team he's been handed and frankly I'm confused by that because two rookies should not be causing this much confusion.  

 

Weise is new, but he's there to give G more time int he other end.  That shouldn't be causing any problems. 

 

Couturier DOES belong on the second line, the problem is he broke up the version of the 2nd line that was working.  Coots and Simmonds on the same line just isn't going to work as well.  He needs skaters to create room, not another player like himself.  

 

I sympathize with hak on defense.  I really do.  Schultz needs to be out there.  His game is what the defense has been lacking.  He's a complement to skating puck movers like MDZ, Ghost and Streit and I think Provo (though others argue that Provo can play his own end well, I argue that he has neither the size or experience to complement a more offensively minded guy like Ghost or Streit).   That said, Manning has been a bit lights out and has been stealing thunder.  So Essentially Hak's faced with a no win choice.  He should really be playing Schultz AND Manning AND Gudas.  He can't do that and keep Provo, Streit, MDZ and Ghost in the lineup (who are clearly too valuable not to leave out).  Until Hextall can trade Streit or Schultz or Mac, this won't change.  There are just too many D men.  This time next year, the majority of these guys will be long gone In the mean time, it's a problem.  

 

VDV needs to be out.  Absolutely.  TK NEEDS to be in OT and the shootout, ABSOLUTELY.

I understand the urge to play two way guys like Coots in OT, and he can surely do that, but for goodness sake, just roll more lines!  TK on that much open ice?  The kid was born for it.  

I had to get on couturier because, well, that's just what I do.  I don't think the second line was working.  TK and JV were working but couturier didn't really contribute.  TK has 10 points, JV has 17, and SC has 7.  Up until the last couple of games, couturier had 5 points, so if anything, he's picking it up with the different combinations.

I agree on defense.  His hands are somewhat tied.  I still think you could sit provorov or streit and keep manning in there.  Has provorov done anything to keep himself in the lineup every night?  I like schultz because he is one of two defensive defensemen out there.

[King Knut]

13 minutes ago, icehole said:

I had to get on couturier because, well, that's just what I do.  I don't think the second line was working.  TK and JV were working but couturier didn't really contribute.  TK has 10 points, JV has 17, and SC has 7.  Up until the last couple of games, couturier had 5 points, so if anything, he's picking it up with the different combinations.

I agree on defense.  His hands are somewhat tied.  I still think you could sit provorov or streit and keep manning in there.  Has provorov done anything to keep himself in the lineup every night?  I like schultz because he is one of two defensive defensemen out there.

 

Coots was producing quite well until Hak took away TK and JV.  It Got Giroux going, but it damaged the overall effectiveness of the team by thinning out the effectiveness of the 2nd Line and I think the team in general.  There's no reason he shouldn't have waited til Schenn came back to try out the G, Schenn Simmonds line then.  

 

I think sitting Provorov is a good idea.  This is an awful lot for a young kid to wrap his head around.  Give him a few games here and there to mentally catch his breath so to speak.  Not as punishment, more as encouragement and for a chance to come back better than he left.  

 

I sympathize with the Schultz situation right now.  He's too good to be benched, but Manning and Gudas are the immediate future (if not here, then in Vegas) and need to play.  If it was the playoffs, there'd be no doubt in my mind that Schultz needs to be playing.  

 

I'd like to see this team start to put things together and I have faith that they will soon enough.  I just wish we didn't have to wait until Christmas every year to find out what kind of hockey team we're actually dealing with.  

 

Whether it'll translate into a playoff birth, I think none of us can say.  I think without the boneheaded mistakes, this team is significantly more dangerous to play against than they were at any point last year.   In the mean time, they're equally dangerous to themselves as they are to the opposition. 

 

 

[icehole]

26 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

Coots was producing quite well until Hak took away TK and JV.

 

 

I don't want to sound arrogant, but I don't know how else to say it.  How was couturier producing?  Like I said, last week, he was sitting on 5 points for the season and 2 of those points were in the very first game.  Does he create space for TK and JV and that's how they produce and he doesn't  (I'm honestly asking because maybe that's a possibility)?

[King Knut]

5 minutes ago, icehole said:

I don't want to sound arrogant, but I don't know how else to say it.  How was couturier producing?  Like I said, last week, he was sitting on 5 points for the season and 2 of those points were in the very first game.  Does he create space for TK and JV and that's how they produce and he doesn't  (I'm honestly asking because maybe that's a possibility)?

 

What game did they move Konex and Jake to G's line?  

[icehole]

15 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

What game did they move Konex and Jake to G's line?  

Well, Hak doesn't seem to stick with anything so I'm not sure.  Has to be the last couple of games right?

[Digityman]

I fell asleep before the OT (fortunately) but I thought overall they played well.  They went back and forth with a team that has a better record.   Hak's decision of not playing TK in OT has to be defensive related.  Offensively, he's one of the most creative the Flyers have. 

[icehole]

19 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

What game did they move Konex and Jake to G's line?  

Come to think of it, has the 11-14-93 line been apart for any stretch of time this season?  I know JV and TK have played on the first line, but not for more than a few shifts here and there.

[ruxpin]

1 hour ago, King Knut said:

I think sitting Provorov is a good idea.  This is an awful lot for a young kid to wrap his head around.  Give him a few games here and there to mentally catch his breath so to speak.  Not as punishment, more as encouragement and for a chance to come back better than he left.  

 

I think he's tremendously improved in the last few games.  I think sitting him now is a horrible idea.   Completely the wrong message.

[ruxpin]

32 minutes ago, icehole said:

Come to think of it, has the 11-14-93 line been apart for any stretch of time this season?  I know JV and TK have played on the first line, but not for more than a few shifts here and there.

I personally haven't noticed them separated much  Just for a few shifts here and there, like you said.

[ruxpin]

35 minutes ago, Digityman said:

I fell asleep before the OT (fortunately) but I thought overall they played well.  They went back and forth with a team that has a better record.   Hak's decision of not playing TK in OT has to be defensive related.  Offensively, he's one of the most creative the Flyers have. 

 

I think so too.   But he has Ghost and Streit out there, so the reasoning seems flawed to me.  (I'm not arguing against Ghost being out there, but he's obviously not for defense).    Hak must be doing that, though, because otherwise you can't begin to explain Coots' being out there.

[King Knut]

16 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

I think he's tremendously improved in the last few games.  I think sitting him now is a horrible idea.   Completely the wrong message.

 

Again... I think it's an incredible disservice to necessarily think of a game off as punishment.  

[ruxpin]

1 minute ago, King Knut said:

 

Again... I think it's an incredible disservice to necessarily think of a game off as punishment.  

It's not necessarily, but you don't do it when he's showing improvement and playing well.

 

I mean, he actually led the team in ice time last night (and I don't believe he played at all in OT) and has been top or second most games.