Leafs Trade Deadline

[jammer2]

5 hours ago, hobie said:

 

I find it difficult to agree with the idea that someone should be given credit because the team he presides over doesn't even have enough good players to worry about who might be lost in the expansion draft.

 

 

 

  On the surface, it seems an odd statement, but a bit of a closer look, yeah, Shanny does deserve some credit. He has presided over 2 drafts, Marner and Matthews are not eligible to be selected, but take up roster spots. Yeah, they sucked for him to be in those draft positions, but he still made the right choices.  He signed Zatisev, Hyman....2 more roster spots that required finesse, and two more spots that do not leave players exposed.

[hobie]

I'd like to see TO improve the team to enhance it's playoffs making ability. We've seen teams that accepted losing as perhaps a necessary component of rebuilding. Colorado and Edmonton lost for years and even after assembling a pretty decent core couldn't win probably because thru the losing process the players lost the will, the essence of what's needed to win. That losing culture isn't something I want TO to foster like viewing not making the playoffs this year as understandable, it isn't.

 

I'm hearing that Hanzal is available and I believe he would be a massive upgrade to TO's 4th line. What might he cost TO, I'm thinking the Goat, Leipsic and a 3rd. This might seem a lot for a rental but outside of the 3rd I doubt these players will ever amount to more than fillers. It might also be possible that TO might be able to extend him ultimately making Bozak expendable/replaceable.

 

TO doesn't currently have a 3rd in the next draft so I'm also thinking Polak should be available for trade and he might net TO a 2nd or 3rd. Trading Polak could very well be an addition by subtraction.

 

I don't think improving TO's d is doable at this time.

 

[WordsOfWisdom]

34 minutes ago, hobie said:

We've seen teams that accepted losing as perhaps a necessary component of rebuilding. Colorado and Edmonton lost for years and even after assembling a pretty decent core couldn't win probably because thru the losing process the players lost the will, the essence of what's needed to win. That losing culture isn't something I want TO to foster like viewing not making the playoffs this year as understandable, it isn't.

 

We invented losing culture!  

 

Point well taken though. That image has to change. The bar needs to be raised to: "we expect to make the playoffs every year" up from: "we're just happy to be in the NHL". 

 

36 minutes ago, hobie said:

I'm hearing that Hanzal is available and I believe he would be a massive upgrade to TO's 4th line

 

I don't know if I'd spend my time worrying about the 4th line too much. If you build good lines ahead of them, the leftover players can drop down the depth chart and become the new 4th line. Every NHL team has a 4th line of guys that are disposable. These are the role players that nobody cares about. This is an experimentation ground for AHL players. The 4th line is usually a revolving door of players. We could upgrade it by just plugging a new rookie in there.

 

40 minutes ago, hobie said:

TO doesn't currently have a 3rd in the next draft so I'm also thinking Polak should be available for trade and he might net TO a 2nd or 3rd.

 

Polak is always available to trade, and teams keep picking him up.  

 

41 minutes ago, hobie said:

Trading Polak could very well be an addition by subtraction.

 

You really hate Polak don't you lol?

 

[hobie]

1 hour ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

 

We invented losing culture!  

 

Point well taken though. That image has to change. The bar needs to be raised to: "we expect to make the playoffs every year" up from: "we're just happy to be in the NHL". 

 

 

I don't know if I'd spend my time worrying about the 4th line too much. If you build good lines ahead of them, the leftover players can drop down the depth chart and become the new 4th line. Every NHL team has a 4th line of guys that are disposable. These are the role players that nobody cares about. This is an experimentation ground for AHL players. The 4th line is usually a revolving door of players. We could upgrade it by just plugging a new rookie in there.

 

 

Polak is always available to trade, and teams keep picking him up.  

 

 

You really hate Polak don't you lol?

 

 

I'm not thinking so much about the 4th line as much as I'm thinking having 4 dynamic lines, all able to contribute in all facets of the game.

 

I don't think the AHL produces NHL players, I think it gives fillers a place to play until they're needed or gives budding NHL players a place to play until they get it. Talent is inherent and not something that can be taught.

 

Actually I really like Polak, he brings a dimension to the Leafs that is needed so appreciating him for what he is, is easy. The down side of Polak is his plusses don't equal his minuses. We need another Polak but with skating, IQ included.

. 

[WordsOfWisdom]

21 hours ago, hobie said:

Actually I really like Polak, he brings a dimension to the Leafs that is needed so appreciating him for what he is, is easy. The down side of Polak is his plusses don't equal his minuses. We need another Polak but with skating, IQ included.

 

I stick up for the guy and he lets me down: two errors in his last two games.

 

I'm ready to make a move with this defensive group. I've seen enough of these six guys. If we offered Rielly + Bozak, or Gardiner + JVR, or any combination of one of our defencemen + any forward not named Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Hyman, or Brown, what could we get in return? Could we finally land a #1 defenceman with that? Please?

 

 

[hobie]

3 hours ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

 

I stick up for the guy and he lets me down: two errors in his last two games.

 

I'm ready to make a move with this defensive group. I've seen enough of these six guys. If we offered Rielly + Bozak, or Gardiner + JVR, or any combination of one of our defencemen + any forward not named Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Hyman, or Brown, what could we get in return? Could we finally land a #1 defenceman with that? Please?

 

 

 

Who was the last #1 d-man traded in the NHL, Pronger as he aged, as he became too expensive.

 

OEL might be the only #1 that might possibly be available but it would take a lot to pry him from Arizona and they'd want youth, cheap youth.

 

O'Sullivan talked about Polak on Leaf Lunch today, he thought Polak actually looked to make a pass rather than throw the puck up along the boards but he was overwhelmed by St.L's forecheck and TO's amazing lack of support in the d-zone, the puck was taken from him. Polak is tolerable if he's totally supported but at the same time he requires 100% support to be a proper d-man, Gardiner and Rielly make plays while Polak can only breakup plays.

 

TO's d looked really bad last night but a lot of that is because the forwards were offering zero support.

[jammer2]

On 2/2/2017 at 3:40 PM, hobie said:

I'd like to see TO improve the team to enhance it's playoffs making ability. We've seen teams that accepted losing as perhaps a necessary component of rebuilding. Colorado and Edmonton lost for years and even after assembling a pretty decent core couldn't win probably because thru the losing process the players lost the will, the essence of what's needed to win. That losing culture isn't something I want TO to foster like viewing not making the playoffs this year as understandable, it isn't.

 

I'm hearing that Hanzal is available and I believe he would be a massive upgrade to TO's 4th line. What might he cost TO, I'm thinking the Goat, Leipsic and a 3rd. This might seem a lot for a rental but outside of the 3rd I doubt these players will ever amount to more than fillers. It might also be possible that TO might be able to extend him ultimately making Bozak expendable/replaceable.

 

TO doesn't currently have a 3rd in the next draft so I'm also thinking Polak should be available for trade and he might net TO a 2nd or 3rd. Trading Polak could very well be an addition by subtraction.

 

I don't think improving TO's d is doable at this time.

 

 

 

 Very interesting article on the Leafs "unique" cap situation going into the trade deadline. Basically, the Leafs are allowed to go over the cap by 15 million because of the LTIR players Horton, Lupul and Robidas.

 

 This puts the Leafs in a very favourable cap spot going forward. Any holes they have, could be filled by stars with expiring contracts.

 

http://thehockeywriters.com/leafs-unique-cap-situation-therriens-statement-and-more-news/

[hobie]

2 hours ago, jammer2 said:

 

 Very interesting article on the Leafs "unique" cap situation going into the trade deadline. Basically, the Leafs are allowed to go over the cap by 15 million because of the LTIR players Horton, Lupul and Robidas.

 

 This puts the Leafs in a very favourable cap spot going forward. Any holes they have, could be filled by stars with expiring contracts.

 

http://thehockeywriters.com/leafs-unique-cap-situation-therriens-statement-and-more-news/

 

This is pretty well the same as last year.

[BluPuk]

I will be very surprised if the Leafs make any deals for today. I just don't see them doing that. I can see them getting more draft picks for some of our current roster but they will only be second rounders at best, unless they can move say JVR and Bozak for a first rounder. Right now this team is too inconsistent for any third or second liner to make a big difference so it would be a bad idea (IMHO) to make any deals at trade deadline aimed at making the play-offs. 

[jammer2]

3 hours ago, BluPuk said:

I will be very surprised if the Leafs make any deals for today. I just don't see them doing that. I can see them getting more draft picks for some of our current roster but they will only be second rounders at best, unless they can move say JVR and Bozak for a first rounder. Right now this team is too inconsistent for any third or second liner to make a big difference so it would be a bad idea (IMHO) to make any deals at trade deadline aimed at making the play-offs. 

 

 

Shanny is a smart dude. Trying to make upgrades based on this years playoff chances, that is Quinn, Ferguson Jr kinda stuff. Sure, if something that comes up that helps the Leafs long term, then I can see it.....but a short fix, don't see that. Polak and Hunwick with go for 2nd and 4th approx, maybe if somebody wants to give up a 5th for Leivo etc, but other than that, this team will have to bascially sink or swim on thier own.

 

[WordsOfWisdom]

On 2/17/2017 at 10:56 AM, jammer2 said:

 

Shanny is a smart dude. Trying to make upgrades based on this years playoff chances, that is Quinn, Ferguson Jr kinda stuff. Sure, if something that comes up that helps the Leafs long term, then I can see it.....but a short fix, don't see that. Polak and Hunwick with go for 2nd and 4th approx, maybe if somebody wants to give up a 5th for Leivo etc, but other than that, this team will have to bascially sink or swim on thier own.

 

 

I'm frustrated with this team.

 

[hobie]

2 hours ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

 

I'm frustrated with this team.

 

Why?

[WordsOfWisdom]

6 hours ago, hobie said:

Why?

 

They have squandered nearly all of the games in hand that they had in the standings.

 

[hobie]

On 2/19/2017 at 5:47 AM, WordsOfWisdom said:

 

They have squandered nearly all of the games in hand that they had in the standings.

 

 

Squandered or simply weren't good enough?

 

How would you have done it better?

[hf101]

 

I can see them spending on a d-man.

[hobie]

2 hours ago, hf101 said:

 

I can see them spending on a d-man.

 

I don't see the Leafs doing anything other than maybe selling, Hainsey for a 2nd is a prime example why.

 

What is TO now, a collection of rookies with vets that the coach complains about, frequently, hardly the time to go all in, in a sellers market. 

[BluPuk]

Leafs acquired Brian Boyle from Tampa today in exchange for Byron Froese and a 2017 second round pick.

 

Brian Boyle is a big guy, but I don't think he is particularly physical. I guess time will tell if this was a good deal.

[TropicalFruitGirl26]

29 minutes ago, BluPuk said:

Leafs acquired Brian Boyle from Tampa today in exchange for Byron Froese and a 2017 second round pick.

 

Brian Boyle is a big guy, but I don't think he is particularly physical. I guess time will tell if this was a good deal.

 

Depends on what you are expecting by "being physical".

 

Yes, he is a large individual and he checks about as good as anyone and stay within the rules doing it.

Will he drop the gloves? Sure, though I will admit he isn't particularly good at that aspect of things, despite being 6'6 and weighing around 245.

Still though, having a guy like that stick up for the star players is a good thing.

 

The guy is also a very good face off man (usually over 50%, as he is this year), takes offensive, defensive zone draws, kills penalties, can be put on the PP to be a net front presence, and hell, the guy can even play defenseman (ala Dustin Byfuglian) if you are short on the blue line.

 

He is also relatively durable, doesn't cause problems in the locker room (in fact, he can be counted on to 'rally the troops'), has a penchant for getting under the skin of the opposition and drawing penalties, won't break the Leafs' cap number, and has, in the past, shown a flair for 'showing up' in the post season.

 

If the Leafs STILL aren't satisfied by any of this, he is a UFA at season's end and they can just let him walk.........or convince him to stay and help along the young core of forwards Toronto has.

 

Now...I don't know anything about the prospect the Bolts got from Toronto (Frouese), but all in all, the Leafs are getting a very solid, big, able bodied veteran in Brian Boyle.

If you want to level major criticism at him, then you can say he fights like a man half his size, but honestly, that's about it....he will do anything and everything else you ask of him....and do it reasonably well to excellently.

 

I think the main draw for the Lightning here was, a bit more cap relief in addition to the Ben Bishop clear, and the 2nd rounder coming their way.

Boyle will be missed in the TB locker room I suspect...as a fan of the team, I will miss his versatility

 

[yave1964]

As good of a P/K center as one will find, a useful role player and one of the best fourth liners in the game today. Wil team with Matt Martin to give teams fits. Great addition for your boys.

[BluPuk]

Thanks for the info yave and TFG. Sounds like a pretty good trade for us.

Not sure why Tampa would make this trade, Froese is no catch - IMHO he is a career AHL'er.

[TropicalFruitGirl26]

2 hours ago, BluPuk said:

Thanks for the info yave and TFG. Sounds like a pretty good trade for us.

Not sure why Tampa would make this trade, Froese is no catch - IMHO he is a career AHL'er.

 

Well, Boyle IS a UFA at season's end and the Lightning were simply making sure to get something for him.

Besides, the 2nd rounder Toronto gave up is likely the more valuable thing they got here.

 

Judging by his age and numbers, I'd have to agree that Byron Froese seems like AHL filler.

 

[WordsOfWisdom]

17 hours ago, BluPuk said:

Leafs acquired Brian Boyle from Tampa today in exchange for Byron Froese and a 2017 second round pick.

 

Brian Boyle is a big guy, but I don't think he is particularly physical. I guess time will tell if this was a good deal.

 

I hope we're not into the "sell the future for the present" stage already are we? (Not that I care about Froese because he was a nobody.)

 

Do we really want to make the playoffs this year and run into the Capitals in round one?  I'd rather have a chance in the draft lottery again. Worked well last time.  

 

[hobie]

We have the rudiments of a good team for the future so I think it's all about how the team is developed. Losing for the purpose of accumulating more better players seems logical but we've seen from Edmonton it's not the volume of good players but rather who they are and how they're developed. Edmonton with McDavid could have continued to lose to get more draft choices to surround him  but what kind of culture or learning environment would that be. Not a healthy one I'm sure, I think TO might have the right core mostly so now TO needs to build around that core, augment it rather than wait for good things to happen. 

 

I think TO needs to enhance the future by making proactive choices, that's what I'm seeing and I hope for moe. TO got rid of Phanny, Kessel, Reimer, etc. to change how they wanted see the future but assuming that meant the slow and imprecise draft and develop mode only is very limiting, Zaitsev and Hyman weren't TO draft choices and all the draft choices TO accumulated have many different applications especially if TO doesn't overspend foolishly.