Patrick and WJC

[Podein25]

I wasn't drinking yet, but this thread is definitely driving me to drink

[King Knut]

1 minute ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

You need to step back from the keyboard man it looks like it's getting to you.

 

I have already said they can't put the genie back in the bottle when they played his 10th game.

 

You are the one who thinks 19 olds can't get better play in juniors.

 

I can't for the life of me understand what juniors is for then. Guess it's a conspiracy!!!!!! 

 

-Kettle calling the pot black, dude.

-They can, they just burn a year off the ELC, but even if you're right... I'm not the one complaining about it.

-I think this particular 19 year old won't be able to address what's holding him back in the NHL if he goes back to juniors, yes.

-Juniors is there for guys who are 16-19 who will find that level of play and size and speed of player competitive.  Not for guys who dominated in the league while playing on a misdiagnosed sports hernia after losing a ton of time on what might have been an unnecessary surgery.  

[OccamsRazor]

17 minutes ago, brelic said:

Everyone is different.

 

Exactly.

 

And the difference from Nolan and the other top picks is their last year of junior the dominated (the McKinnons, Halls, RNHs, Ekblads, Tavares and Stamkos types and that isn't even talking about the Mcdavids, Matthews and Eichels).

 

They dominated before moving to the next level so they were very confident going in. Patrick wasn't (no fault of his own) he only played 33 games and his team didn't make the postseason.

 

Then he had offseason surgery and it was even late in the preseason/camp before he showed he was coming around.

 

Would have been a good move maybe (because we'll never know) to give him a full year to get back to his dominate playing level and to prepare him for the best league in the world and then worst case in 2018-19 if not ready he could go to the Phantoms.

 

Now well they will have to find another way.

[OccamsRazor]

3 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

-Kettle calling the pot black, dude.

-They can, they just burn a year off the ELC, but even if you're right... I'm not the one complaining about it.

-I think this particular 19 year old won't be able to address what's holding him back in the NHL if he goes back to juniors, yes.

-Juniors is there for guys who are 16-19 who will find that level of play and size and speed of player competitive.  Not for guys who dominated in the league while playing on a misdiagnosed sports hernia after losing a ton of time on what might have been an unnecessary surgery.  

 

I've made my point i'm done with you. Cry to someone else. 

[flyercanuck]

3 hours ago, King Knut said:

 

I agree with you on the tournament.  And THEY SCREWED UP HIS HERNIA in juniors and had him playing on a bad one for half a season for no reason.   This alone is reason to keep him away from them.  Beyond that, it doesn't matter what you've ever heard or have never heard of... HE's HERE and he's not going anywhere.  You might as well join me and try to start seeing the bright side of things because they're not going to change.

 

Like you, I wish he could go to Juniors, but with the injury possibility I could see why they don't want to lend him, especially after what happened to Myers last year in Worlds or whatever that dumb tournament was called.  

 

Well thank God the Flyers have never screwed up medically on one of their key players which could have resulted in his death........wait a minute. 

 

 And that "dumb tournament" probably has about 98% of future NHL players in it.

[murraycraven]

1 hour ago, brelic said:

 

I think that's exactly it. It's a lot for him to handle. Everyone is different.

 

Take away his name, and look at his stat line, his fancy stats, and he's probably a guy you'd scratch in favour of someone who might bring a few more intangibles and confidence to the game, even if the points aren't there.

 

And of course, expectations are high from fans too because he was #2 overall, but ranked #1 forever. But he's just not in the same league as McDavid, Eichel, Matthews, Laine, etc. He's not even in the same league as Hischier at this point in time.

 

There's nothing wrong with that - it's just a question of where he can better find his game and get to the next level. Hextall and co. believe it is in the NHL. I disagree, but I've never chopped someone behind the legs with a goalie stick before

 

So I'll defer to those guys lol.

 

Spot on my friend...   

[murraycraven]

32 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

Well thank God the Flyers have never screwed up medically on one of their key players which could have resulted in his death........wait a minute. 

 

 

this is f'ing hysterical!!!!   LOL!!!  well done FC

 

[King Knut]

 

3 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

 

Well thank God the Flyers have never screwed up medically on one of their key players which could have resulted in his death........wait a minute. 

 

 And that "dumb tournament" probably has about 98% of future NHL players in it.

 

-And it looks like they’re taking the same devil may care attitude with Nolan doesn’t it?

 

-By dumb tournament I meant the whatever the eff it was called one last summer that no one wanted to play in and injured Giroux and others who are alrare day pros... wasn’t it Seguin who lost massive time?  

[King Knut]

4 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

I've made my point i'm done with you. Cry to someone else. 

 

I think you’re overestimating your point making ability, but I’m glad you feel satisfied about it. 

 

I don’t care if it’s only 8 minutes and I don’t care if he’s terrible.  Watching Patrick play in the NHL tonight is going to be fun as hell just knowing how much it’s upsetting you. 

[OccamsRazor]

15 minutes ago, King Knut said:

Watching Patrick play in the NHL tonight is going to be fun as hell just knowing how much it’s upsetting you. 

 

 

Sad, you really need to get a life if that is the reason you are watching the Flyers....yet would explain your post.

 

I'm flattered you are so concerned with me.

 

However i hate to disappoint you to think it's upsetting me. Because it's not.

 

Nothing i can do about it i don't control them.  

 

Patrick hopefully will overcome his issues.

 

[flyercanuck]

8 hours ago, King Knut said:

 

 

-And it looks like they’re taking the same devil may care attitude with Nolan doesn’t it?

 

-By dumb tournament I meant the whatever the eff it was called one last summer that no one wanted to play in and injured Giroux and others who are alrare day pros... wasn’t it Seguin who lost massive time?  

 

 So what you're saying is he's no worse off with a junior staff?

 

 Well if Giroux got hurt, as did Seguin, it was hardly the WJHCs, as you'd have to be under 20. 

[King Knut]

6 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

 

 So what you're saying is he's no worse off with a junior staff?

 

 Well if Giroux got hurt, as did Seguin, it was hardly the WJHCs, as you'd have to be under 20. 

 

I meant the world cup of hockey last summer where they invented teams without countries just to get more NHL talent into it.  

Myers got hurt at the WJC's last year. 

 

And no.  I was being sarcastic about Patrick.

[OccamsRazor]

On 12/12/2017 at 1:24 PM, Podein25 said:

I wasn't drinking yet, but this thread is definitely driving me to drink

 

Well lucky for us he is done developing at 19....right???

 

''Was it over when the German's bombed Pearl Harbor??"

 

 

 

TRADE ALL THINGS NOW!!!!!!!! FOR EVERYTHING AVAILABLE!!!!!! 

[brelic]

Thought this was interesting.. 

https://www.prohockeyrumors.com/2017/12/victor-mete-sent-to-world-junior-selection-camp.html

 

Quote

 

With Victor Mete not playing regularly for the Montreal Canadiens, the team has decided to allow him to attend Team Canada’s World Junior selection camp. Mete has played 27 games for the Canadiens this season, but has recently been a healthy scratch and hasn’t seen the ice time he had earlier in the year.

 

Though nothing is guaranteed just yet, it would be surprising to see the team not take Mete with them to Buffalo and the tournament. His versatility and experience in the NHL makes him a perfect compliment to an already healthy blue line group, and he should play a big role in the tournament. The Canadiens will have another decision afterwards, as Pierre LeBrun of The Athletic reports they still don’t know what they’ll do with Mete for the rest of the season.

 

They could bring him back to the NHL or send him to the junior ranks, where the young defender would rejoin the London Knights in their pursuit of a Memorial Cup. Mete has burned the first year of his entry-level contract already, but is no closer to unrestricted free agency. He’d need to remain on the active roster for an additional nine games for this season to count towards his UFA status, something that the Canadiens will have to factor into their decision post-tournament.

 

As for Tyson Jost, who was expected to be sent to Team Canada last week, Michael Traikos of Postmedia has bleaker news. Traikos reports that Jost, Samuel Girard and Nolan Patrick are all likely off the table for Canada, though there is always an outside shot until the roster is actually named.

 

 

They say "not playing regularly," but he's playing more than Patrick, averaging 14:52 TOI, CF% of 51, +5, and 4 pts in 27 games for a 19 year old defenseman.

 

Yet Montreal thought it would be a good idea to let him go to the WJC.

 

Another thing - it sounds like 35 GP is the cut off for burning a year off UFA status.

 

If Patrick keeps playing this way, do you think they let him get past 35 GP? That's more significant, I'd say, than the 3-year ELC, or at least as significant.

 

 

 

 

[aziz]

On 12/12/2017 at 1:16 PM, brelic said:

There's nothing wrong with that - it's just a question of where he can better find his game and get to the next level. Hextall and co. believe it is in the NHL. I disagree, but I've never chopped someone behind the legs with a goalie stick before

 

So I'll defer to those guys lol.

 

 

well, i HAVE chopped someone behind the legs with a goalie stick before (broke a perfectly good moog-pattern louisville, too), and it occurs to me that confidence comes and goes, but honed skill is built.  dominating competition helps confidence, but confidence only.  being actually challenged builds skill.  being challenged and found lacking at the moment can hurt confidence, but only so long as the player is found lacking.  if skill is built at the same time, the player will come out the other side the better for all of it.  adversity builds character and all of that.

 

not all high end players can dominate, can be THE force on the ice that makes things happen.  it's nice to have one of those around, but there is a reason 5 skaters are on the ice at a time.  patrick doesn't need to become a crosby or mcdavid, nor should his rookie year be compared to theirs.  he needs to be a major piece of an 18 man squad, not THE piece.  

 

let him take his knocks.  so long as he is asking himself, "what happened there, how do i make that work next time," the NHL is the right place for him to be.  if his attitude is, "man, i just can't hang, these guys are way too good for me," then you have a problem, but the coaching staff would know that and he wouldn't be wearing a flyers jersey right now.

 

honestly, it's likely practice and NHL travel are the two most important things for him right now, icetime in games is gravy.  living and working with NHL vets constantly is going have to biggest impact for him.  sitting around with other children, all of whom he is much better than, does him nothing.  imo.

[aziz]

4 hours ago, brelic said:

If Patrick keeps playing this way, do you think they let him get past 35 GP? That's more significant, I'd say, than the 3-year ELC, or at least as significant.

 

with ballooning 2nd contract salaries, i think UFA/RFA designations are becoming increasingly unimportant.  when a RFA can demand $6.7mil or sit, i'm not sure i see a big difference between the two statuses.

[OccamsRazor]

I'll leave this right here....

 

 

 

Fire away!!!!!!

[King Knut]

 

On 12/14/2017 at 12:26 PM, aziz said:

 

with ballooning 2nd contract salaries, i think UFA/RFA designations are becoming increasingly unimportant.  when a RFA can demand $6.7mil or sit, i'm not sure i see a big difference between the two statuses.

 

It's not exactly that simple.  The players aren't just saying, "Pay me 6.75 million or I sit".  What's happening is that the teams are saying, "You're good... we want to sign you for 6+seasons until you're in your late 20's early 30's..."  It's Extremely rare to see a player enter UFA when he's hitting his peak and can seriously cash in (one of the reasons I think the impending Tavares situation is so interesting).  

 

Simmonds gave Hextall a sweetheart contract.  

Ghost signed a pretty reserved contract.

 

A lotta folks blame it entirely on guys like Pastrnak, but the fact is Pastrnak's good and I'm guessing he might have signed for $4.5 million for 3 years in order to be a UFA at 24 but the sticking point likely had quite a bit to do with Boston not wanting to have to pay market value for the player he'd be in three years time.  

 

I'm more upset and confused by deals like Oshie's.

 

In fact if you look at Boston's roster, they'll be paying Krecji $7.25 millon until he's 35, Bergeron will get $6.85 until he's 36, Marchand $6million until he's 36, and Backes gets 6 million until he's 37 too.  

 

This is why I'm worried about the Simmonds contract and feel like it's probably better to trade him this year.  It's not so much paying Simmonds $7million or whatever he's likely to fetch, but more that some idiot out there will apparently be willing to give him a 6 or 7 year contract. As much as I want Simmonds to cash in and get what he greatly deserves, I don't know that doing that now will end up being in the Flyers best interest in 2 years time.  

 

But hell, a guy who produces the same as simmonds wants a $6 ot $7 million  contract at 21?  WHERE DO I SIGN?!

 

You just have to be smart about assessing that guy.  Lehtera was obviously a bone headed signing by the BLues.  

[OccamsRazor]

2 hours ago, King Knut said:

Ghost signed a pretty reserved contract.

 

His was pretty much where the market was. Simmer's was a steal.

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

On 12/12/2017 at 12:20 PM, brelic said:

 

 

The thing is, on those nights he was 'benched' or had his minutes cut, he was one of the two or three worst performing forwards on that night. Or put in a more positive way, there were 9 guys who deserved the ice time more than him.

 

The NHL is NOT a development league. There are millions of dollars at stake every single game, in salaries, gate revenues, concessions, merchandise, advertising, you name it.

 

In my very humble opinion as a Flyers fan, Patrick looks like he belongs in a development league right now. But that ship has sailed (not really but the Flyers won't burn a year for 20 games worth), so... 

 

Hakstol is trying to win games, and if that means the best option is to shorten the bench when it matters, so be it.

 

But wasn't it Hextall that said the plan was develop talent? Then Hakstol says the goal is winning? The problem is that the message is so inconsistent in Philadelphia. If everyone were on the same page, no problem. They aren't though and guys like Konecny, Patrick and Sanheim are all paying the price for management and coaching's indecisiveness. And don't even get be started on Morin. They've bungled his development and handling. I get everyone is happy with this artificial win streak, but they did the same thing last year and we all know how that ended.

[AlaskaFlyerFan]

31 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

But wasn't it Hextall that said the plan was develop talent? Then Hakstol says the goal is winning? The problem is that the message is so inconsistent in Philadelphia. If everyone were on the same page, no problem. 

 

I don't necessarily see this as them not being on the same page.  A car manufacturer's plan is to sell cars while the goal may be to build a more reliable vehicle.  The players can develop their individual/team skills while the team is winning games.

[brelic]

12 hours ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

But wasn't it Hextall that said the plan was develop talent? Then Hakstol says the goal is winning? The problem is that the message is so inconsistent in Philadelphia. If everyone were on the same page, no problem. They aren't though and guys like Konecny, Patrick and Sanheim are all paying the price for management and coaching's indecisiveness. And don't even get be started on Morin. They've bungled his development and handling. I get everyone is happy with this artificial win streak, but they did the same thing last year and we all know how that ended.

 

Yes, and they are doing that. Through the Phantoms, overseas leagues, and junior leagues. 

 

As mentioned in a previous post, yes there is still development at the NHL level but the NHL is not a development league. Subtle but important distinction.

 

The Flyers brought up Ghost because he was ready - took him two years and being 23. Provorov and TK made the team in draft year + 1. Hagg had to wait three years. 

 

Patrick - they decided he was ready now.

 

Compare that to the Oilers, for example, who sometimes appear to plug some draftees in immediately more out of necessity than because they are ready.

 

As for the "artificial win streak", not sure what you mean. If that's the case, then was the losing streak "artificial" too?

 

The Flyers have looked more like the team from the first 10 games lately, and most of us and analysts figured they were a playoff bubble team - which is kinda what they are, right? And playoff bubble teams are mediocre by definition - which is exactly what the Flyers are. 

 

 

[OccamsRazor]

4 minutes ago, brelic said:

 

Yes, and they are doing that. Through the Phantoms, overseas leagues, and junior leagues. 

 

 

And let's not forget the kids are learning on the job in the NHL too....call it trial by fire if you will but they are growing.

 

It ain't perfect but it is a young team and there will be many bumps along the way.

[OccamsRazor]

7 minutes ago, brelic said:

As for the "artificial win streak", not sure what you mean. If that's the case, then was the losing streak "artificial" too?

 

Agree ain't nothing fake about either. All teams go through it during the season...some just longer than others.

[brelic]

4 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

And let's not forget the kids are learning on the job in the NHL too....call it trial by fire if you will but they are growing.

 

It ain't perfect but it is a young team and there will be many bumps along the way.

 

Just checked it out - we are the 10th youngest team in the NHL at 27.1 years old. 

 

Columbus is the youngest at 25.8, Detroit the oldest at 30.