Eastern Conference: Round 1 - #2 Pittsburgh Penguins vs. #3 Philadelphia Flyers

[Leach27]

5 minutes ago, B21 said:

 

Great post. Again, all good points.

 

BUT...

 

Flyers went 0-4 on the PP and were outshot 2-0. Inexperience? Or poor play by Flyers/good play by Pens?

 

Laughton fans on a wide open net. Poor play? Or inexperience?

 

Can go both ways. I buy the inexperience bit.  I just disagree on how much of a factor is was in last night's game and will be moving forward.

 

honestly who really gives a f***?? not even worth watching the series at this point. This game is not worthy of an "autopsy",  much better games to watch tonight. 

[phlfly]

I hope Flyers dump Elliot forerver. He is bad he had good moments and he is lazy goalie. F this guy . Why is Flyers got him? Jeez!

 

STBlues:

A 23–8–6 record during the 2015–16 NHL season earned Elliott the starting role for the Blues for the 2016 Stanley Cup playoffs. He led the Blues to a first round victory over the defending Stanley Cup champion Chicago Blackhawks. He made 31 saves in the deciding Game 7 victory on April 25. Elliott and the Blues would then move on to face the Dallas Stars, who had been the Western Conference's number one overall team. Again, the Blues prevailed in seven games. Elliott's only faltering occurred in Game 6 of the series, when he was pulled in favour of Jake Allen after allowing three goals on seven shots. He would rebound the next game, making 31 saves in a decisive 6–1 victory that propelled St. Louis to the Western Conference Finals for the first time since 2001.^[11]

Flames:

During the 2016 NHL Entry Draft, Elliott was traded by the Blues to the Calgary Flames in exchange for a 2016 second-round pick (Jordan Kyrou) and a 2018 conditional third-round pick on June 24, 2016. On October 24, 2016, he won his first game as a Flame against Chicago in a shootout.^[12] However, he struggled with the team early, prompting them to switch to Chad Johnson as the team's regular starter. Elliott regained the starting job after starting the season off 3–9–1 with a 3.31 GAA and a save percentage of .885. On June 17, 2017, GM Brad Treliving informed Brian Elliott that he will not be returning to the team for the 2017–18 season

[B21]

27 minutes ago, Leach27 said:

honestly who really gives a f***?? not even worth watching the series at this point.

 

That's fine. If the Flyers come back and win 4 games to 1 I'll expect not a peep from you then. :-)

[flyercanuck]

1 hour ago, B21 said:

 

LOL but I'm not buying it. One of the worst players on the ice last night was Giroux. 69 post season games. -4.  Coots has played in a few post-season series. Also -4. Costly turnover led directly to a goal. Voracek has some experience. Nice job on the Malkin goal. -2. 

 

I didn't see a team that lost due to lack of experience. I saw a team give up after that first goal because it "was a bad goal" and then get progressively less interested as the game wore on. Experience has nothing to do with that.  An attitude like that is on the players, captains and coach. 

 

 Back to back championship goalies don't direct easy save rebounds right into the slot.

 

 Back to back champions don't whiff on wide open nets. Laughton should have had 2 goals last night. Neither would have been asking too much of ANY NHL player. I'm not saying Philly would have won. But 1-1 is better than 2-0. And 3-2 is better than 3-0.

 

 They don't decide NOW is the best time to change when one of the oppositions top players steps out of the box, gets the puck and heads up ice with a head of steam. 

 

 There was a whole lot of bad on the Flyers last night. There was a whole lot of good by the Pens. A fair bit of it on either side had to do with being used to playing in pressure situations that you know can win a game. 

 

 Every shift matters in the playoffs. YOUR team knows that. Mine clearly doesn't.

 

 

[MaineFlyFan]

One of my "pre-game" (like 3 days ago) things was Laughton scoring! I said he was due....and he blew it.

 

Tough game to watch. But we lost ONE game...lets see what happens.

 

YES, the Pens are the better team. (just vomited in my mouth), Yes, Elliott is mediocre at best, YES, we need to get the puck out of our zone!!!......but that doesn't mean we can't beat them!!!!

 

COME ON EVERYONE!!!!

LETS GO FLYERS!!!

[swflyers28]

13 minutes ago, MaineFlyFan said:

One of my "pre-game" (like 3 days ago) things was Laughton scoring! I said he was due....and he blew it.

 

Tough game to watch. But we lost ONE game...lets see what happens.

 

YES, the Pens are the better team. (just vomited in my mouth), Yes, Elliott is mediocre at best, YES, we need to get the puck out of our zone!!!......but that doesn't mean we can't beat them!!!!

 

COME ON EVERYONE!!!!

LETS GO FLYERS!!!

 

Well, there will be no lineup changes for Game #2.  So expect a replay of Game 1 or worse.

[brelic]

1 hour ago, B21 said:

 

Great post. Again, all good points.

 

BUT...

 

Flyers went 0-4 on the PP and were outshot 2-0. Inexperience? Or poor play by Flyers/good play by Pens?

 

No, I'd say that just ineffectiveness. The Flyers' PP works in fits and spurts this year - like many teams, I suspect. But the Flyers' PP is also stacked with high-risk players that, when things go south, they really go south. That surely happens to the Pens too sometimes, but for the Flyers, it was a regular occurrence during the year.

 

So I'd say that one is down to coaching more than anything else. A young, rookie PP coach.

 

1 hour ago, B21 said:

Laughton fans on a wide open net. Poor play? Or inexperience?

 

Can go both ways. I buy the inexperience bit.  I just disagree on how much of a factor is was in last night's game and will be moving forward.

 

Hmm, probably a bit of both. Laughton fans maybe because of nerves - i.e. he thought he had more time than he did, or just wanted to score so badly that whiffed. 

 

Same with the Couturier turnover - he just thought he had more time than he did. 

 

It might come down to game prep where the Pens, collectively, top to bottom, know exactly what to expect and what they need to do.

 

The Flyers are not as cohesive in that sense. It will come, but that is missing from the team right now. 

 

 

[pilldoc]

2 minutes ago, swflyers28 said:

 

Well, there will be no lineup changes for Game #2.  So expect a replay of Game 1 or worse.

 

Lather, wash, rinse, repeat ........  end of story.

 

Granted 1 game does not make a series...but there was a WHOLE LOT ugly last night that CANNOT be repeated.

[brelic]

39 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

Every shift matters in the playoffs. YOUR team knows that. Mine clearly doesn't.

 

The good news - really, the *only* good news lol - is that whether we lose by 1 or by a touchdown, it's still just 0-1 in the series. 

 

And even if we go 0-2, it's still completely under control until we lose one at home, right?

 

Trying really hard to find a silver lining haha!

 

[B21]

1 hour ago, flyercanuck said:

 

 Back to back championship goalies don't direct easy save rebounds right into the slot.

 

 Back to back champions don't whiff on wide open nets. Laughton should have had 2 goals last night. Neither would have been asking too much of ANY NHL player. I'm not saying Philly would have won. But 1-1 is better than 2-0. And 3-2 is better than 3-0.

 

 They don't decide NOW is the best time to change when one of the oppositions top players steps out of the box, gets the puck and heads up ice with a head of steam. 

 

 There was a whole lot of bad on the Flyers last night. There was a whole lot of good by the Pens. A fair bit of it on either side had to do with being used to playing in pressure situations that you know can win a game. 

 

 Every shift matters in the playoffs. YOUR team knows that. Mine clearly doesn't.

 

 

 

Or...they just aren't that good? Good players get back to back championships because they don't whiff on open nets.

 

Cup winning goalies win Cups because they don't direct juicy rebounds into the slot.

 

Cup winning players win Cups because they don't change lines mid-rush.

 

Now - do you learn any of the above playing regular season hockey or must one have experienced playoff hockey to be reminded of these?

[B21]

40 minutes ago, brelic said:

 

No, I'd say that just ineffectiveness. The Flyers' PP works in fits and spurts this year - like many teams, I suspect. But the Flyers' PP is also stacked with high-risk players that, when things go south, they really go south. That surely happens to the Pens too sometimes, but for the Flyers, it was a regular occurrence during the year.

 

So I'd say that one is down to coaching more than anything else. A young, rookie PP coach.

 

 

Hmm, probably a bit of both. Laughton fans maybe because of nerves - i.e. he thought he had more time than he did, or just wanted to score so badly that whiffed. 

 

Same with the Couturier turnover - he just thought he had more time than he did. 

 

It might come down to game prep where the Pens, collectively, top to bottom, know exactly what to expect and what they need to do.

 

The Flyers are not as cohesive in that sense. It will come, but that is missing from the team right now. 

 

 

 

No disagreement. I get all that. I just (beat dead horse) don't buy into the cliche of "playoff hockey experience".  The biggest difference between regular season hockey and playoff hockey i/m/h/o is the officiating - refs more likely let something go than they would in the regular season. Obviously, more intense. A loss in the regular season is just a lost. Playoffs - different story.  I didn't see a lack of that experience burn the Flyers last night. I just didn't. I saw a team play horrid hockey and make a lot of the same mistakes they made in the regular season. It happens. I just can't chalk it up to a lack of playoff hockey experience.

 

 

 

[ruxpin]

23 minutes ago, B21 said:

Or...they just aren't that good? Good players get back to back championships because they don't whiff on open nets.

 

Cup winning goalies win Cups because they don't direct juicy rebounds into the slot.

 

Cup winning players win Cups because they don't change lines mid-rush.

 

Now - do you learn any of the above playing regular season hockey or must one have experienced playoff hockey to be reminded of these?

 

Any one of those three examples happen in both the regular season and the playoffs.    Good players actually do whiff on open nets.  Cup winning goalies actually do, on occasion, direct juicy rebounds, and cup winning players do, occasionally, change lines at insanely stupid times (of course it was Voracek.  Always my Flyer nomination for dumbest player in the league).   

 

The difference between the experienced team and whatever the hell was wearing orange & black last night is that the experienced team, the team that ultimately wins the cup, doesn't let it snowball.   They realize it's a marathon and not a sprint and don't let any one of those things become the end of the world.    Sometimes, an experienced team--or any team that ends up winning the Cup''can have all of these things happen at once and get blown out of a game.   The experienced team, again, realizes it's a marathon, picks itself up, goes about business and goes back for the next game. 

 

 It remains to be seen whether the Flyers can simply close that door and go back to business Friday.   If this season has proven one thing it's that this particular Flyers team is NOT capable of that.   It is more likely, when things go bad, to go into a 10-game losing streak, or a 7 game or whatever.   It has been as streaky as it has because while it's coach looks the same at a carnival as he does at his mom's funeral, the team is given to follow emotion.  Great when it's up but long and protracted when down.

 

This will be a sweep.

[pilldoc]

8 minutes ago, B21 said:

Cup winning goalies win Cups because they don't direct juicy rebounds into the slot

 

Stop right there .....   there is no one with 1/2 a brain cell that would consider our form of the Joker Triplets cup winning goalies.  Most of us on here acknowledge they are not.  They are simply a place holder until Hart / Sandstrom are ready.  However, they are at least expected to act like a NHL goalie.  Is that too much to ask?????

[pilldoc]

Just now, ruxpin said:

This will be a sweep.

 

Sadly.... you may be correct in that assumption.

[ruxpin]

12 minutes ago, B21 said:

I saw a team play horrid hockey and make a lot of the same mistakes they made in the regular season. It happens. I just can't chalk it up to a lack of playoff hockey experience.

 

I actually agree with this.

 

The only thing that looked like maybe not "playoff ready" was particularly early when the speed of the game seemed to collectively catch them offguard.  You could almost read their body language like, "Jesus, I didn't expect it to be this fast!"  

I think Laughton's whiff was a result of this.  It wasn't that he thought he had more time than he did.  It's that he actually thought he had LESS time than he did and rushed it.    I think a lot of the brain dead unforced turnovers in the Flyers' end might --  might -- be attributed to this.   You're right, we saw a lot of that during the regular season.  It seemed exacerbated last night and I think nerves and speed and not mentally slowing the game down (something Crosby is great at) caused it.

 

--  "I think a lot of the brain dead unforced turnovers in the Flyers' end"  --  i don't want that to seem as if the Flyers just flubbed and the Pens were handed one.   That's not the case at all.  The Pens TOOK this game and deserved it.  The Flyers just not only didn't put up a fight, they helped carry it to the Penguins' car.

[ruxpin]

3 minutes ago, pilldoc said:

However, they are at least expected to act like a NHL goalie.  Is that too much to ask?????

 

Yes.

 

Honestly, though, we made it to the finals in 2010 with goalies -- Leighton, in particular -- that had no business going to the finals.   But they rose to that occasion (generally speaking.  I'll pause for "But...KANE!").     I don't know if we should "expect" that of these backups and AHLers masquerading as starters, but we do know it's possible.

[ruxpin]

Dave Hakstol at the carnival....or was it the funeral?

 

 

 

 

Do you like the little diagram to the left of him (his right)?    That's so he can keep reminding Flyers' forwards what the defensive zone looks like.

[pilldoc]

7 minutes ago, B21 said:

 

No disagreement. I get all that. I just (beat dead horse) don't buy into the cliche of "playoff hockey experience".  The biggest difference between regular season hockey and playoff hockey i/m/h/o is the officiating - refs more likely let something go than they would in the regular season. Obviously, more intense. A loss in the regular season is just a lost. Playoffs - different story.  I didn't see a lack of that experience burn the Flyers last night. I just didn't. I saw a team play horrid hockey and make a lot of the same mistakes they made in the regular season. It happens. I just can't chalk it up to a lack of playoff hockey experience.

 

 

 

 

I get what you are saying ... BUT ...experience DOES play a part.  How much is certainly debatable.  Riddle me this ...how many Rookie QB's have won the SB?  Easy answer ... ZERO ... Simply  because they don't have a whole lot of experience.  I know comparing oranges to apples.  I get it. 

 

Don't get m wrong, I am not giving the Flyers a free pass here.  Mistakes should not happen .. PERIOD,  However, as you said, playoff hockey is slightly different.  The best analogy I can give is a couple years ago I was in a bowling league.  I used to average slightly below 200 with a 195 League Average.   One night I was having the night of my life.  After a terrific 1st and 2nd game, I started the 3rd game with the front 9.  There I was in the 10th staring at my 1st 300 game and 1st 700 series.  I'm a good bowler and I made a mistake not because I should have know better, but I was a slight bit nervous, palms sweaty, heart racing.  You know what....my arm flew out of my release, sent it to far right of my mark and ended with a washout.  Good Bye 300... Good Bye 700.  I guarantee you, next time I'm in that position, I will know how to better handle the situation.

 

Same with hockey, there are a lot of Flyer player without PO experience.  Hopefully they learn.  Again I'm not giving them a free pass, but experience certainly can attribute to a portion of the debacle.  How much, as I mentioned above, is certainly up for debate.

 

But...I do get your POV.......

 

 

[pilldoc]

11 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

Yes.

 

Honestly, though, we made it to the finals in 2010 with goalies -- Leighton, in particular -- that had no business going to the finals.   But they rose to that occasion (generally speaking.  I'll pause for "But...KANE!").     I don't know if we should "expect" that of these backups and AHLers masquerading as starters, but we do know it's possible.

 

Talk about the stars aligning just right during that playoff year ........  I get your point though .....

[ruxpin]

3 minutes ago, pilldoc said:

Same with hockey, there are a lot of Flyer player without PO experience.  Hopefully they learn.  Again I'm not giving them a free pass, but experience certainly can attribute to a portion of the debacle.  How much, as I mentioned above, is certainly up for debate.

 

But...I do get your POV.......

 

Yeah, I mean, if we're being honest it's not like we witnessed anything last night that we hadn't seen all year.   Not the 7-0 score, but all the turnovers, the blown coverages, the crap goaltending, etc.   I do think we saw MORE of it.   And we saw it all at once.   And we saw an opponent more than capable of capitalizing on it every time.   Someone mentioned the 2006 Buffalo thing (not sure I have the right year).  it's the same in the sense that we'd make a mistake and BAM, in the net.      

 

Thankfully, not every blatantly stupid mistake ended up in our net or the Penguins would have outscored the Eagles.

 

I want to blame playoff nerves and speed and a well-coached battle-tested opponent for some of it.  But the other part of it was just all of their inadequacies rearing their ugly heads all at once.

[pilldoc]

1 minute ago, ruxpin said:

I want to blame playoff nerves and speed and a well-coached battle-tested opponent for some of it.  But the other part of it was just all of their inadequacies rearing their ugly heads all at once.

 

Agree.  Most of us on here realized this was a borderline playoff hockey team to begin with.  If they play a perfect hockey game they certainly can match up with most teams and win.  However, they simply are not that good enough to overcome their mistakes.  Last night proved that.  There were a great many mistakes last night and the Pens certainly took advantage of that,.... many times over.

[flyercanuck]

49 minutes ago, B21 said:

 

Or...they just aren't that good? Good players get back to back championships because they don't whiff on open nets.

 

Cup winning goalies win Cups because they don't direct juicy rebounds into the slot.

 

Cup winning players win Cups because they don't change lines mid-rush.

 

Now - do you learn any of the above playing regular season hockey or must one have experienced playoff hockey to be reminded of these?

 

The regular season is 82 games long. Guys take shifts off....guys take games off. On every team. Did Pittsburgh play 82 games like they did last night? No. 

 

 Pittsburgh ended up 2 points ahead of Philly. Did that look like a team ONE game better over an 82 game sched?  Not to me...that looked like a playoff ready team. Philly looked like it was game 4 of the regular season. Laughton scored 10 goals in the regular season. Hagelin scored 10. I don't see a "superior" scorer there. ONE of them couldn't score in a wide open net last night.   My guess is he was probably gripping his stick a little too tight last night. FOUR career playoff games (including last night) might have had a bearing on that.

 

 I'm not arguing the two teams are equal here....I didn't expect playoffs this year. The Pens are better...but they're also comfortable in playoff hockey. They KNOW the grind. There's a lot of Flyers who either forget...or don't know it at all.

 

 

 

 

[mojo1917]

1 hour ago, ruxpin said:

Dave Hakstol at the carnival....or was it the funeral?

 

 

 

 

Do you like the little diagram to the left of him (his right)?    That's so he can keep reminding Flyers' forwards what the defensive zone looks like.

I love the kid pickin' his nose. +1

 

[ruxpin]

11 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

I love the kid pickin' his nose. +1

 

 

You have to blow it up some to realize it's Voracek.

[mojo1917]

I think this is a watch the game tape and see if there are adjustments to be made.  For example I thought the Pens did a nice job jumping the clearing attempts and outlet passes.  That's scouting and coaching, Hakstol will see this and should have some counters. After that though, there's not much value in continuing to dwell on that beating.  The Flyers played their worst game of the year, bar none. The Pens played very well, maybe their best game of the year ?  I don't watch them enough.  I do think the top players for Pgh are better than the top players for Phi, I don't think last night is any indication of the margin of that difference. I said this to poulin20, my hope is young guys learned what's expected and have the ability to elevate their game. Also I'd like to see Koneckny back with G and Couturier