Hextall so far

[brelic]

I took the following list from https://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/hextall-an-amazing-job.2512505/

 

The poster did an exceptional job at summarising the moves Hextall has done thus far, including showing how the picks received/traded away were used. 

 

Also, I think it's safe to say the biggest gripe people have with Hextall is Hakstol. I get that - but it's also one of the easiest things to change/fix. Everything else he's done to get the team out from under cap restraints, bad contracts, ill-fitting pieces, and a barren farm team is impressive. There are some misses, of course, but the good things far outweigh the bad. 

 

I read an interview with Hextall on Meltzer's blog re: free agency, and Hexy is really sticking to his guns that the JVR deal made sense on both the player (clear upgrade) and term (manageable and won't block players), whereas every other deal out there did not. He said they were in on a 3C but the term didn't make sense. Same with the defensemen. He'd rather go with in-house options. 

 

Thoughts on the list below?

 

Since Hextall took over:          

 
Year 1&2  

                 
Traded Hartnell for Umberger+4th(Wagner flipped for Vorobyev+Salintri…who was not signed)
Traded McGinn for a 3rd(Sandstrom)…McGinn waived by SJ months later
Signed MDZ                
Signed Schultz                
Signed White                
Signed Bellemare                
Signed VDV                
Traded Coburn for 1st, 3rd(Tomek) + Gudas=Got Konecky by moving up+ Gudas has been great.
Traded Timonen for 2 2nd rounders=fantastic value, used 1 pick to move up for Konecny, the other for Allison
Signed Danick Martel for free=QMJHL 2nd leading scorer...worth a shot
Traded Rinaldo for 3rd(Ustimenko) Rinaldo later waived
Traded Grossmann + Pronger for Gagner + 4th(traded to NYI for 4th in 2017…then used in package for Ratcliffe)
Signed Medvedev=a good KHL player for free…didn't work out
Signed Neuvirth for free=shored up the backup G situation for the next 2 years then resigned for 2 more years
Fired Berube…Flyers fans rejoice        
Hired Hakstol                
Signed Marti                
Signed Bardreau                
Signed undrafted 6'5 RHD Philip Myers for free…QMJHL All Star 2016, WJC as well
Traded Vinny and LSchenn for Weal + 3rd(Twarynski)
Got us into the playoffs 2016        
Signed top College FA G Lyon for free        
Added Goalie Coach Brady Robinson        
Added AHL coach Scott Gordon        
Oversaw 2 drafts and had these 7 guys at the WJC this year(2015/16):
Provorov: named CHL Dman of the year…now in NHL
Sanheim: highest PPG in the WHL in 20 years for a Dman, Now in NHL
Konecny: great draft+1 season…now in NHL    
Lindblom: highest scoring U20 in SHL, SHL Forward of the year, now in NHL
Fazleev: over PPG in WHL, now in AHL    
Sandstrom: made WJC multiple times, Named top Goalie at WJC…still in SHL
Kase: Over PPG in MH...made WJC multiple times…now in AHL
Plus drafted:                
Aube Kubel: over PPG in QMJHL…now in AHL…top ES scorer
Friedman: WCHA All Star Dman…now in AHL    
Tomek: injured all season, made WJC…now in USHL
Dove McFalls: poor pick...not signed        
Vorobyov: Was #1C at WJC for Russia….now in AHL
Marody:traded for a 3rd in 2019)        
Fedotov: long term G prospect…in VHL    
Pettersson: played in AHL, then back to SHL    

Year 3                    

 

Drafted in 2016:                
Rubstov: made WJC….now in AHL        
Laberge: CHL All Star Game MVP…not playing to expectations…AHL?
Hart: 2 time CHL goalie of the Year….WJC goalie and gold winner…AHL?
Allison: USHL Playoff MVP, great start to season, got hurt…college again
Twarynski: great season…AHL        
Bunnaman: Captain Dave Poulin's obsession    
Hogberg: SHL regular, WJC player        
Laczynski: Made WJC, had great season…college again
Salinitri: not signed            
Bernhardt: Made WJC, SHL regular        
Signed Weise for free…has played below expectations
Signed Gordon for free…played below expectations…waived
Added Huffman to handle the D in AHL    
Signed AHL players in Brennan, O'Neill, and Miele
Signed Lyubimov for free…did not work out    
Traded Streit for Filppula+4th(Sushko)+7th(Kalynuk)
Signed Vecchione as a UFA College player, in AHL doing well
Named Kris Knoblauch assistant coach    

Year 4                    

 

Traded Cousins+Madsen for Warren+5th(Wylie)    
Traded B Schenn for 2 1st rounders-Frost+ 1st(Farabee)
Re-Signed Weal                
Re-signed Neuvirth            
Signed Elliott                
Signed Varone for AHL            
Signed Irving then traded him for Tokarski    
Drafted in 2017:                
Patrick: Now in NHL            
Frost: tore up the OHL            
Ratcliffe: Traded 3 picks for him: Westerlund+Schnarr+Hoefenmayer
Ustimenko                
Strome                    
Sushko                    
Cates                    
Lycksell                    
Kalynuk                    
Traded 3rd in 2018(Seth Barton) for Mrazek    
Claimed Oduya off waivers while losing Alt to waivers

Year 5                    

 

Drafted in 2018                
Farabee                    
O'Brien                    
Ginning                    
St.Ivany                    
Wylie                    
Ersson                    
Hain                    
Westfalt                    
Signed JVR

[ruxpin]

38 minutes ago, brelic said:

Traded Hartnell for Umberger+4th(Wagner flipped for Vorobyev+Salintri…who was not signed)

 

Thanks for posting that.  Really good read.  Overall, I think really a pretty good job by Hextall.

 

I have a feeling (and hoping not) that this might veer this thread off-course, but want to ask about the above.

 

The above has been roundly criticized OR defended as cutting the salary cap exposure short.  I was okay with it, but was focused on the term-reduction.  And obviously, Umberger's utter ineptitude didn't help things.

 

But pretend for just a moment that Vorobyev makes the club this year as 3C or 4C (or even on wing) and does even modestly well.   For me, that changes the algebra and puts this trade fully in the win column.  Thoughts?

[brelic]

6 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

Thanks for posting that.  Really good read.  Overall, I think really a pretty good job by Hextall.

 

I have a feeling (and hoping not) that this might veer this thread off-course, but want to ask about the above.

 

The above has been roundly criticized OR defended as cutting the salary cap exposure short.  I was okay with it, but was focused on the term-reduction.  And obviously, Umberger's utter ineptitude didn't help things.

 

But pretend for just a moment that Vorobyev makes the club this year as 3C or 4C (or even on wing) and does even modestly well.   For me, that changes the algebra and puts this trade fully in the win column.  Thoughts?

 

Yes, I would agree. A trade can only truly be evaluated in the long term. Of course, in the short term, CBJ got the better deal, no question. A lot of it came down to where CBJ was headed and where the Flyers were headed - in different directions. 

 

If Vorobyev becomes a decent 3C/4C, I definitely think it changes things. And it's not as simple as comparing him to Hartnell, for example. Does Vorobyev come and fill a need for the team, and do it well? If so, then I think that means they used their asset (pick) well.

 

But as of right now, the Jackets no longer have Hartnell nor do they have any significant playoff run or a Cup as a result. 

 

Also, the absence of Hartnell probably contributed to a lower seeding for us, meaning we got a better pick. So many moving parts and variables, right? 

 

 

[ruxpin]

2 minutes ago, brelic said:

Also, the absence of Hartnell probably contributed to a lower seeding for us, meaning we got a better pick. So many moving parts and variables, right? 

 

 

Yep. And I have little doubt that was part of Hextall's math at the time.

[flyercanuck]

@brelic

 

I read that post this morning on HF...one of the knocks the guy mentioned was Hextalls drafting of Laberge and possibly Rubtsov...but IMO both those players development has been derailed by injuries...something totally unforeseeable on any GMs part.

 

He did a nice job on it though.

[pilldoc]

11 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

@brelic

 

I read that post this morning on HF...one of the knocks the guy mentioned was Hextalls drafting of Laberge and possibly Rubtsov...but IMO both those players development has been derailed by injuries...something totally unforeseeable on any GMs part.

 

He did a nice job on it though.

 

Kieffer Bellows (LW) was taken right after the Flyers traded down.  Scored 70+ points for Portland (AHL) last year.  He look much more NHL ready than Ruby.  Agree ...can't forsee players getting hurt.  I believe right when Ruby came over, he was lighting it up before his injury.

 

But yeah....agree with everything else.....   

[brelic]

1 minute ago, flyercanuck said:

@brelic

 

I read that post this morning on HF...one of the knocks the guy mentioned was Hextalls drafting of Laberge and possibly Rubtsov...but IMO both those players development has been derailed by injuries...something totally unforeseeable on any GMs part.

 

He did a nice job on it though.

 

Exactly, you can't predict injuries. And even barring injuries, you're not going to hit on every draft prospect.  You kind of hope that 1st round picks will at least be top 6 forwards and top 4 defensemen.

 

So far, Hextall's 1st round picks (8 players in 5 drafts) have been:

 

Farabee

O'Brien

Patrick

Frost

Rubtsov

Provorov

Konecny

Sanheim

 

Of those, it's clear that Provorov and TK are top players already.

 

Patrick is also a top 6 forward after one season, and was showing signs of what could make him a top line center in the future.

 

It's too early to evaluate the others. 

 

In one draft analysis of players drafted between 1990 and 1999, they discovered that 63% of 1st round picks play at least 200 games.

https://www.thoughtco.com/nhl-draft-picks-2779293

 

Another study of players drafted between 2000-2009 found that 80% of 1st rounders go on to play at least 50 NHL games (personally, I would consider that a fail, but they consider that success).

https://www.tsn.ca/playing-the-percentages-in-the-nhl-draft-1.206144

 

When you have two 1st round picks, there is a 95% chance of hitting on at least one of them (50 NHL games played).

[flyercanuck]

3 minutes ago, pilldoc said:

 

Kieffer Bellows (LW) was taken right after the Flyers traded down.  Scored 70+ points for Portland (AHL) last year.  He look much more NHL ready than Ruby.  Agree ...can't forsee players getting hurt.  I believe right when Ruby came over, he was lighting it up before his injury.

 

But yeah....agree with everything else.....   

 

But last year wasn't his (Bellows) draft year...he scored 16 goals in his draft year and followed that up with 7. Last year was definitely better than Rubtsovs, but he was often injured. If he can stay healthy I think he will help the Flyers. He's got a very good 2 way game and good hockey sense.

[pilldoc]

13 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

But last year wasn't his (Bellows) draft year...he scored 16 goals in his draft year and followed that up with 7

 

Good point ... I wasn't thinking about that.  I know he's a very good 2 way player.  I was not trying to take anything away from Ruby.  Here is the write up from our HF.net Mock draft.  Just proves how very different each player is when growing into the NHL game.

 

Dennis Schellenberg - THW -"Rubtsov is a highly-intelligent two-way center and is probably one of the players with the highest Hockey IQ of the entire draft. He possesses a great vision and can really distribute the puck very well. He seems to always be aware of his line mates and is a great setup guy. Rubtsov makes smart decisions with the puck and barely turns the puck over. He is a calm puck carrier and uses his strong puck-handling skills to dance through the neutral zone with speed.

His strides are powerful and he is hard to knock off the puck as he is an excellent puck protector and uses his long reach and body to make it nearly impossible to steal the puck. Although he is not an overly physical player, he is hard to knock off his position and can play with a physical edge if needed. He possesses smooth hands and has a good and accurate shot too. However, he is more of a pass first guy and does not shoot the puck very often.

Rubtsov understands the game mentally very well and is a leader on the ice. He is a coach’s dream as he combines work ethic, a strong two-way game and smarts. His backcheck is strong and he is very well aware of his defensive responsibilities. He often uses his stick to interfere passes and is excellent when using his active stick work to steal the puck or cut passing lanes. In the neutral zone, he is a pain to play against as he cuts passing lanes with an effective positioning game and is able to prevent a quick transition game by the opponents. Rubtsov is great in anticipating plays and can be used in all game situations."

[ruxpin]

35 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 

But last year wasn't his (Bellows) draft year...he scored 16 goals in his draft year and followed that up with 7. Last year was definitely better than Rubtsovs, but he was often injured. If he can stay healthy I think he will help the Flyers. He's got a very good 2 way game and good hockey sense.

 

The other thing to keep in mind is that we didn't end up with just Rubtsov instead of Bellows.   We ended up with Rubtsov and Laberge for #18 and #79 (Luke Green, who's doing nothing).

 

Both have seen injuries, but both are coming along well.   So, we'll see how they end up versus Bellows.  Unless Laberge sneaks in this year, I don't actually expect to ever see him on the Flyers.  I think he's behind too many people at this point.  But maybe in a year or two we can revisit this and compare Bellows with Rubtsov and whomever we get when we trade Laberge.

[elmatus]

Hexy has definitely done a good job. I don't really follow any other team to nearly this extent, so I'm not sure how his work stacks up vs any comparable GMs. I would say the two biggest successes the Flyers have had during his tenure are in dumping awful contracts and in drafting. I don't imagine he's the only reason for either of those things, but I expect he's a big part of them. He definitely deserves praise for both imo.

 

Many of his trades early on in particular were robbery -- Grossman, Timonen, Coburn -- that's a masterclass right there. I still think the Hartnell for Umberger trade was a mistake, but I wouldn't call it a terrible one. If Frost develops into an elite force, I'd add the Schenn trade to that too.

 

I was never a fan of the Voracek contract. I don't think he was worth it when he signed, and I'm always worried his production will dip to third line standards any year now. But as long as he keeps proving me wrong, it's fine. JVR can go either way right now obviously. We'll have to see how all that shakes down.

 

Our goalie situation is awful, but I'm not sure he's really to blame for that. He hasn't had much for opportunity to obtain any decent goalie to begin with.

 

Really the only major rub is Hakstol at this point. He's done nothing to prove he belongs in the NHL and everything to show he's easily out-coached. That said, I can see the appeal of bringing up a very successful college coach to see if he can translate his skills to the dance. I just hope Hexy can swallow his pride and ditch him if 2018-19 turns out to be another string of mistakes for the HC.

[LegionOfDoom]

Hextall brought in Hakstol to develop the young assets he was aquiring to teach them to play the right way. That was his vision with the HC. Easier said than done. Hakstol's philosophy was in line with Hextalls'

Now the fact of the matter is Hakstol never coached in the NHL and there's more moving parts to consider(feeling out momentum shifts, timeouts, In

game fast line matchups, practices in an 82 game season, when to loosen the reigns on rookies, and develop players confidence and responsibleness/accountability and more.

 

That's a lot of moving parts to manage.

Hakstol might not of had the resume to say, I've done that in the Pro level. But Hextall liked his foundation and fiber of who the coach is and his philosophy on developing young talent.

Hextall saw alot of solid things in Hakstol and believes this coach will develop as a great NHL coach in a few years. Like what others said of Babcock.

I see Hakstol as mentoring this young team into playing Flyers hockey as well as building a team culture and tradition.

He has made rookie mistakes and I think he will grow from them(just like a rookie player makes mistakes on the ice.) Do I rejoice? No. But I'm looking at the long game of this hire and see he has been given the space to develop this team into playing Flyers hockey and developing the youth movement funneling in.

Now in saying this, yes frustration will surface and arm chair quarterbacking is what he will have to deal with in media and fanbase critique. He actually took it like a man and welcomed it.

I see by next year is the year Hextall will evaluate Hakstol and see where he's at in the organization (by then, that would of been sufficient time to see what the hired hand has done with the seeds he was given to sow and reap.

I think he leaned a little to much on the vets, and they where given more leniency in making mistakes with less ramifications to an extent.

His choices in putting vet presence out on the ice, instead of youth at times, was him trying to err on the better side of choices that backfired. Again a learning experience.

Imagine your hired and the CEO, CFO and CSO show up to see your day to day operations. Your going to put your more experienced and better decision looking personnel when issues arise and their looking down from the balcony and seeing how you handled that hurdle.

 

Hextall is watching him from the balcony and I think this year Hakstol might put it together and understand the dynamics of in game coaching at the NHL level.

I'mpatient with him because I too see the value in what Hextall believed he was bringing in to the organization. This was going to be a process, from the coaching staff, developing a farm/team and identity. Its all going hand in hand.

Hextallis building something here. He's hoping the long view will setup this organization with multiple Cups and have a dynasty to look back on.

In looking short sited on this matter, is I hate the guy what is he thinking? He's ruining the rookie by not playing them enough.

I don't believe that's the case at all.

The on the job learning mistakes are correctable and the coaching staff should be working on those things to minimize their impact in game results. At least, that's what I would be looking at.

Again I'm not washing over his costly mistakes, which where few and somewhat far in between, but that's what was to be expected from bringing in a talented successful coach from college ranks to the NHL level.

This coming season is a big one for the coach along with new pieces and hurdles to overcome.

 

 

Disclaimer: I'm typing this gruelingly from a Mobile device and the screen real estate is smaller than normal, when I get a chance I'll re-edit this for clarity, grammer and punctuation.

[LegionOfDoom]

S O A B, that was a long winded post, just to say..."The kids are ok!" As well as the coach.

[ruxpin]

12 hours ago, LegionOfDoom said:

S O A B, that was a long winded post, just to say..."The kids are ok!" As well as the coach.

 

Good lord dude.  The length equaled MY ramblings. 

 

Well said, though.

[murraycraven]

At some point Hak needs to put it together if we are going to contend.   Simple as that....   I am not a fan of Hak but will give him some leeway but at some point he needs to be *the coach* for this team to take a major step forward.   

 

Time will tell but from where I sit he is not the answer.   Hope he proved me wrong... 

[Jam1986]

Play the kids. Love Simmons but Hex going young. We need size to help the smaller guys. Who will do that?

[vis]

@brelic

 

Honestly, I didn't read that laundry list of trades or the entire post.  

 

I don't think there's anything shocking about saying Hextall has done an excellent job at building the farm (helps when 2OA falls into your lap) and a good job at jettisoning some bad contracts (some of which I give him less credit for than others).  I still think his usage of UFA is a little questionable, but he did address a clear need this year in signing JVR (though I'm not a huge JVR fan, he is an upgrade).  I don't know what else was available to him, but I don't think there were any signings where I said, "I wish the Flyers signed that guy to that contract."  I do think the goaltender situation is a mess and wish he hadn't re-signed Neuvirth.  I think that was a mistake.  But overall, hard to find fault in Hextall - assuming you're OK with continuing to look more to the future than the present.  I still don't think they are a team that can make a dent in the post-season, which is slightly disappointing.  

 

  

[ruxpin]

2 minutes ago, vis said:

Hit post too son.

Don't call me son! 

[vis]

4 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

Don't call me son! 

Wow.  I even screwed up the edit.

[ruxpin]

15 minutes ago, vis said:

@brelic

 

Honestly, I didn't read that laundry list of trades or the entire post.  

 

I don't think there's anything shocking about saying Hextall has done an excellent job at building the farm (helps when 2OA falls into your lap) and a good job at jettisoning some bad contracts (some of which I give him less credit for than others).  I still think his usage of UFA is a little questionable, but he did address a clear need this year in signing JVR (though I'm not a huge JVR fan, he is an upgrade).  I don't know what else was available to him, but I don't think there were any signings where I said, "I wish the Flyers signed that guy to that contract."  I do think the goaltender situation is a mess and wish he hadn't re-signed Neuvirth.  I think that was a mistake.  But overall, hard to find fault in Hextall - assuming you're OK with continuing to look more to the future than the present.  I still don't think they are a team that can make a dent in the post-season, which is slightly disappointing.  

 

  

I'm arguing with people on Twitter for three days now that want to bring Mason back.  One guy told me he grew up in Nashville as proof of his hockey bona-fides. 

 

I almost conceded the point, because we know what a hockey (and decent music) hotbed that has been historically. 

[Howie58]

This is year four of the five-year Hakstol contract and what might be termed their joint leadership.  If there is no playoff series win, we have tough questions to ask and might say either or both go.  

[vis]

@ruxpin

 

scary that someone wants Mason back.  

 

The other thing that that bothers me about the Hextall tenure is the failure to address the PK.  Whether it’s personnel or going in another coaching direction, something should be done.  Maybe one guy they could have targeted this summer would have been Grabner.  

[ruxpin]

52 minutes ago, vis said:

@ruxpin

 

scary that someone wants Mason back.    "Scary" almost doesn't do it justice.

 

The other thing that that bothers me about the Hextall tenure is the failure to address the PK.  Whether it’s personnel or going in another coaching direction, something should be done.  Maybe one guy they could have targeted this summer would have been Grabner.  

 

I want to blame the PK coach.  But then I think about the fact our goaltending has completely blown for probably 3 years.  Couple that with the fact we haven't had really strong defense, either.   Provorov is good, but he only just finished his second year.  After that they were --I'm not making this up--putting MANNING out on the penalty kill.   They're options were Ghost, MacDonald (who was out there), Gudas and kids.

 

Then we had people upfront that were good at one time (Read, for example) but had lost a step, had torn everything below the pancreas (Simmonds) or just aren't very good (Weal, Lehtera, etc.).  I don't know if some of these were even on the PK, but it's just an example that the choices weren't great.  Giroux played the PK a few years back, but the thought was that was creating too much ice time and reducing his offense.  

 

So, maybe the coaching.  Maybe we haven't had the right personnel.  If it's either, I don't see where that's changed.  Maybe Vorobyov comes up and can do a good job there.  Who else?   Provorov is a year older, but other than MacDonald, who?  I think Folin will be too slow, but if they put Manning out there...

 

Yeah, whether coach or personnel, that's on Hextall.

[vis]

1 hour ago, ruxpin said:

Yeah, whether coach or personnel, that's on Hextall.

I think that's right.  At some point you either go out and get better forwards (I think the defense and goaltending is what it is) or you change the coach.  Instead, we got Weise and Lehterrible, neither of which is helpful on the PK.

[elmatus]

9 hours ago, vis said:

I think that's right.  At some point you either go out and get better forwards (I think the defense and goaltending is what it is) or you change the coach.  Instead, we got Weise and Lehterrible, neither of which is helpful on the PK.

 

Think makes sense to me. Mind you, I think Hexy has made good choices with the d-corps. He's picking up just enough cheap but alright vets to give the much more talented kids a chance to take their spots. I think it would be a mistake to sign dmen that would only block our kids down the line.

 

Guys like Gudas, Manning, and now Folin are exactly this type of player. They're NHL dmen, but they don't have the talent of a Sanheim, Morin, or Myers. They leave the door open for those guys, while at the same time being usable if rather low impact.

 

We should have Sanheim straight out of camp this year. Morin probably would have joined him if not for the injury. As it stands, we may see Morin after xmas for a bit if he can rehab well enough and Hex feels he's ready. Myers is unlikely to be NHL bound this year, unless he can blow some minds at camp, or half our defensive corps finds itself on LTIR during the year.

 

I'm fine with all that. Our defence may not be Nashville-level, but it is good and getting better. Stats about this have been posted to death over the last year. The TL;DR version is that Provo and Ghost were dynamite, and Sanheim was just as good in limited play. That's already quite good, and it will only get better.