New GM?

[murraycraven]

9 hours ago, brelic said:

So, I don't know much about Fletcher. Just looking through his record while GM, it seems decent, albeit middling as a playoff team. 3 misses, 4 first round losses, 2 second round losses.

 

What's the knock on him?

 

2009–10	2009–10	82	38	36	—	8	84	219	246	914	4th, Northwest	Did not qualify
2010–11	2010–11	82	39	35	—	8	86	206	223	969	3rd, Northwest	Did not qualify
2011–12	2011–12	82	35	36	—	11	81	177	226	976	4th, Northwest	Did not qualify
2012–13	2012–13	48	26	19	—	3	55	122	127	545	2nd, Northwest	Lost in Conference Quarterfinals, 1–4 (Blackhawks)
2013–14	2013–14	82	43	27	—	12	98	207	206	783	4th, Central	Won in First Round, 4–3 (Avalanche)  Lost in Second Round, 2–4 (Blackhawks)
2014–15	2014–15	82	46	28	—	8	100	231	201	728	4th, Central	Won in First Round, 4–2 (Blues)  Lost in Second Round, 0–4 (Blackhawks)
2015–16	2015–16	82	38	33	—	11	87	216	206	545	5th, Central	Lost in First Round, 2–4 (Stars)
2016–17	2016–17	82	49	25	—	8	106	266	208	669	2nd, Central	Lost in First Round, 1–4 (Blues)
2017–18	2017–18	82	45	26	—	11	101	253	232	684	3rd, Central	Lost in First Round, 1–4 (Jets)

Don't ever post a chart like that again... . On my cell phone it looks like the fibonacci sequence! 

[elmatus]

I can't understand why teams just keep regurgitating the same mediocre at best GMs and coaches. I feel like the pool of NHL coaches and GMs has been about six for a decade now. They just keep switching around despite having precious little to show for their time in the league.

 

I could understand for some names -- Quenneville, Babs, Yzerman, Trots -- guys who have had success. But why should anyone be excited at the prospect of a Fletcher? What successes can he really point to? That chart shows a solid amount of meh to me. Why is the team brass apparently fine with settling for a meh kind of guy? It honestly baffles me.

[brelic]

19 minutes ago, murraycraven said:

Don't ever post a chart like that again... . On my cell phone it looks like the fibonacci sequence! 

 

OMG. You’ve cracked the code!ok, here are the new player numbers. 

 

1,1,2,3,5,8,13,21,34,55,89.

 

After that, we run into triple digits, so I hope we can win with 11 players and that the league gives us an exemption to have two players with the same jersey number. 

 

 

[flyersfan35]

3 minutes ago, elmatus said:

I can't understand why teams just keep regurgitating the same mediocre at best GMs and coaches. I feel like the pool of NHL coaches and GMs has been about six for a decade now. They just keep switching around despite having precious little to show for their time in the league.

 

I could understand for some names -- Quenneville, Babs, Yzerman, Trots -- guys who have had success. But why should anyone be excited at the prospect of a Fletcher? What successes can he really point to? That chart shows a solid amount of meh to me. Why is the team brass apparently fine with settling for a meh kind of guy? It honestly baffles me.

 

everyone though jim r was a bad fit in pittsburgh and gave him two stanley cups, look at caps their gm won his first stanley cup, you just cant judge on gms based on cups, it's about how they improve their teams, hextall didnt do that and this team is sinking because of it. that's why chuck is good fit because he knows how to trade for good players, yes the wild hasnt won a stanley cup, but is it really fair to judge him on that? it's very difficult to win cups,

 

they are still successful and progressing, that's all you can do, you keep trying and trying, that's what the caps did, did they quit and blow it up? no they kept the foot on the gas pedal and eventually won the cup.

 

i mean if they sign him, let's give it a chance. anything is better than hextall right now.

[sweetshot]

9 hours ago, brelic said:

So, I don't know much about Fletcher. Just looking through his record while GM, it seems decent, albeit middling as a playoff team. 3 misses, 4 first round losses, 2 second round losses.

 

What's the knock on him?

 

2009–10	2009–10	82	38	36	—	8	84	219	246	914	4th, Northwest	Did not qualify
2010–11	2010–11	82	39	35	—	8	86	206	223	969	3rd, Northwest	Did not qualify
2011–12	2011–12	82	35	36	—	11	81	177	226	976	4th, Northwest	Did not qualify
2012–13	2012–13	48	26	19	—	3	55	122	127	545	2nd, Northwest	Lost in Conference Quarterfinals, 1–4 (Blackhawks)
2013–14	2013–14	82	43	27	—	12	98	207	206	783	4th, Central	Won in First Round, 4–3 (Avalanche)  Lost in Second Round, 2–4 (Blackhawks)
2014–15	2014–15	82	46	28	—	8	100	231	201	728	4th, Central	Won in First Round, 4–2 (Blues)  Lost in Second Round, 0–4 (Blackhawks)
2015–16	2015–16	82	38	33	—	11	87	216	206	545	5th, Central	Lost in First Round, 2–4 (Stars)
2016–17	2016–17	82	49	25	—	8	106	266	208	669	2nd, Central	Lost in First Round, 1–4 (Blues)
2017–18	2017–18	82	45	26	—	11	101	253	232	684	3rd, Central	Lost in First Round, 1–4 (Jets)

Believe it or not he doesn't seem to know what ingredients a Cup aspiring team needs to have. The Wild under his wing have been built with too many finesse/smallish players who fade in the postseason when things get tough. Good team during the regular season though--keeps fans in the seats.

He's probably made more bad deals than good ones with the Wild. He likes to make trades for over-the-hill players who don't pan out--Mark Vanek and Danny Heatley are a couple that come to mind.

The Parise/Suter deals have strapped the Wild for cap space and will continue to do so for another 7 years--each signed for $100M for 13 years(at the end of which both will be over 40).

He traded a 1st and a 2nd for Martin Hanzal and Ryan White from the Coyotes for a playoff run 2 years ago--Hanzal never really contributed to who at that time was a fast Wild team--he was simply too slow. White played 19 games for the Wild and never played again.

He did sign Stall as a free agent 3 years ago which was a fantastic move.

 

Wild was facing a serious goaltending issue 3-4 years ago and he somehow found Devan Dubnyk when it didn't appear there was anybody out there worth getting.(I think he got him from Edmonton--a charitable club)

 

Traded away Brent Burns...

 

I'll say one thing--he was a busy GM.

 

[brelic]

11 minutes ago, flyersfan35 said:

I mean if they sign him, let's give it a chance. anything is better than Holmgren right now.

 

FTFY. 

[elmatus]

14 minutes ago, flyersfan35 said:

i mean if they sign him, let's give it a chance. anything is better than hextall right now.

 

If they sign him, I will do my best to support him and the team as always. That's not going to change even if it's Homer again.

 

14 minutes ago, flyersfan35 said:

you just cant judge on gms based on cups, it's about how they improve their teams, hextall didnt do that and this team is sinking because of it. that's why chuck is good fit because he knows how to trade for good players, yes the wild hasnt won a stanley cup, but is it really fair to judge him on that? it's very difficult to win cups,

 

 

What should we judge him on though? Is making the playoffs just to get wrecked a good barometer for success? I dunno. 16 teams make the playoffs. Hell, this set of Flyers have made the playoffs just to get ousted as well. Does that make Hexy a success?

 

I'm trying to think of the last time I would have looked at the Wild as anything more than a bubble team. I honestly can't. They've been a whole lot of whatever for a decade now. I've never heard them talked about as major contenders. At best, they were a team with a few vets who seemed to have some mileage left for a while. 

 

I guess I just want better than that. I have a hard time looking at Fletcher's record and seeing him as an upgrade. I will say this though: He looks an awful lot more like a Homer-style GM than Hexy did...

[OccamsRazor]

8 minutes ago, flyersfan35 said:

that's why chuck is good fit because he knows how to trade for good players

 

Martin Hanzal, Ryan White 2017 4th for a 2017 1st and 2018 2nd and a conditional 2019 4th don't look so hot to me.

 

Niklas Backstrom and a 2016 6h for David Jones looks even worse.

 

Then Matt Moulson and Cody McCormick for Torrey Mitchell and two 2nd round pick not good either.

 

I would like to see your idea of a good trade by Fletcher please....i don't see one besides getting Dubnyk for a 3rd.

[ruxpin]

16 minutes ago, flyersfan35 said:

that's why chuck is good fit because he knows how to trade for good players

 

I strongly disagree with that statement.   There is no evidence to substantiate that other than maybe Dubnyk.

 

19 minutes ago, flyersfan35 said:

yes the wild hasnt won a stanley cup, but is it really fair to judge him on that? it's very difficult to win cups

 

Even harder when you only make it past the first round twice in 9 years.    I realize the Wild play in a not-so-easy division, but only as high as 2nd twice.  

 

There's a LOT of track record to judge Fletcher on.   He is a ridiculously horrible choice.   Holmgren says they'll "hire outside," but a Clarke flunky is the front-runner.

[ruxpin]

7 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Martin Hanzal, Ryan White 2017 4th for a 2017 1st and 2018 2nd and a conditional 2019 4th don't look so hot to me.

 

Niklas Backstrom and a 2016 6h for David Jones looks even worse.

 

Then Matt Moulson and Cody McCormick for Torrey Mitchell and two 2nd round pick not good either.

 

I would like to see your idea of a good trade by Fletcher please....i don't see one besides getting Dubnyk for a 3rd.

 

Thank you.  "Knows how to trade for good players" is simply ludicrous.  It's just not remotely true.

[brelic]

2 minutes ago, elmatus said:

 

If they sign him, I will do my best to support him and the team as always. That's not going to change even if it's Homer again.

 

 

What should we judge him on though? Is making the playoffs just to get wrecked a good barometer for success? I dunno. 16 teams make the playoffs. Hell, this set of Flyers have made the playoffs just to get ousted as well. Does that make Hexy a success?

 

I'm trying to think of the last time I would have looked at the Wild as anything more than a bubble team. I honestly can't. They've been a whole lot of whatever for a decade now. I've never heard them talked about as major contenders. At best, they were a team with a few vets who seemed to have some mileage left for a while. 

 

I guess I just want better than that. I have a hard time looking at Fletcher's record and seeing him as an upgrade.

 

There are a lot of definitions for success. 

 

For fans, it’s a Cup. 

 

For GMs, it’s whatever their bosses expect. More points than last year. Win the division. Make the second round. Win the Cup. 

 

That will vary based on realistic outcomes. They understand it’s a process. It works until it doesn’t, like we just saw. 

 

All to say that we don’t know exactly when and where Fletcher failed because we’re not his bosses. Did he meet expectations for 6 years but not for the last 3? 

 

Also winning a Cup takes a lot more than a good GM. It’s usually a perfect alignment that particular year of coaching, players, puck luck, leadership, contracts, injuries, trades, etc. 

 

Basically, it’s your best case scenario of outcomes, and that’s really hard. 

 

What the GM does is create the best situation to take advantage of them. 

 

You know what? I’m stoned and totally lost my train of thought. Ahh legal cannabis. 

 

Have you been been to the new stores yet?

[ruxpin]

26 minutes ago, flyersfan35 said:

they are still successful and progressing,

 

THEY ARE NOT SUCCESSFUL AND THEY ARE NOT PROGRESSING!

 

No one is buying the alternative facts here.

[FD19372]

7 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

I strongly disagree with that statement.   There is no evidence to substantiate that other than maybe Dubnyk.

 

 

Even harder when you only make it past the first round twice in 9 years.    I realize the Wild play in a not-so-easy division, but only as high as 2nd twice.  

 

There's a LOT of track record to judge Fletcher on.   He is a ridiculously horrible choice.   Holmgren says they'll "hire outside," but a Clarke flunky is the front-runner.

I am luke warm at best on hiring Fletcher. While has he won somewhat as an NHL GM lately, and for as much he had hits with Zucker and Granlund, he's made some VERY questionable trades like Nick Leddy for Cam Barker.

[ruxpin]

https://www.hockeywilderness.com/2018/4/23/17271710/minnesota-wild-chuck-fletcher-out-as-general-manager-fired-craig-leipold-next-gm-flahr-fenton-dubas

[ruxpin]

Just now, FD19372 said:

What has he won as an NHL GM lately  EVER?

 

He could quite possibly be the worst choice available.

 

Someone call Condoleezza Rice.

[elmatus]

1 minute ago, brelic said:

 

There are a lot of definitions for success. 

 

For fans, it’s a Cup. 

 

For GMs, it’s whatever their bosses expect. More points than last year. Win the division. Make the second round. Win the Cup. 

 

That will vary based on realistic outcomes. They understand it’s a process. It works until it doesn’t, like we just saw. 

 

All to say that we don’t know exactly when and where Fletcher failed because we’re not his bosses. Did he meet expectations for 6 years but not for the last 3? 

 

Also winning a Cup takes a lot more than a good GM. It’s usually a perfect alignment that particular year of coaching, players, puck luck, leadership, contracts, injuries, trades, etc. 

 

Basically, it’s your best case scenario of outcomes, and that’s really hard. 

 

What the GM does is create the best situation to take advantage of them. 

 

You know what? I’m stoned and totally lost my train of thought. Ahh legal cannabis. 

 

Have you been been to the new stores yet?

 

Pfft. Forget that. I win on NHLXX every da** year. 

 

How many times have we had a couple hour convo and come out with all the right decisions to make to lead the Flyers to the cup? Why aren't we getting a call up for the job?

 

Also: @brelic #GetFletchOnThePhone sounds lame af.

 

[ruxpin]

And Fletcher eviscerated the Wild's draft picks trading for lunacy on top of it.  To finish 3rd or 4th and lose in the first round.  He's an idiot.  That's why the bigger idiot--Holmgren--is even considering him.  That and because he's a flunky of a still bigger idiot--Clarke. 

[ruxpin]

1 minute ago, elmatus said:

Why aren't we getting a call up for the job?

 

Obtain proof of having had a lobotomy and then send your resume and the proof.

[brelic]

1 minute ago, elmatus said:

 

Pfft. Forget that. I win on NHLXX every da** year. 

 

How many times have we had a couple hour convo and come out with all the right decisions to make to lead the Flyers to the cup? Why aren't we getting a call up for the job?

 

Also: @brelic #GetFletchOnThePhone sounds lame af.

 

 

Love Fletch! I must have watched that and the sequel 30 times without exaggeration. 

 

I think I’ll watch it right now!

[ruxpin]

Can you people HEAR me through the screen?   I haven't been this highly torqued since the VLC signing (when I also screamed through the computer screen).

[elmatus]

Just now, ruxpin said:

Can you people HEAR me through the screen?   I haven't been this highly torqued since the VLC signing (when I also screamed through the computer screen).

 

Loud and clear, @ruxpin. Also of note, the forum gods have just told me I'm not to have any more reactions today. Goes back to your lobotomy idea I suppose.

[FD19372]

6 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

Obtain proof of having had a lobotomy and then send your resume and the proof.

..and be willing to take a drugging testing.

[ruxpin]

Would someone please buy Holmgren a new bicycle and take him on a trip to Avalon?

[OccamsRazor]

17 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

Thank you.  "Knows how to trade for good players" is simply ludicrous.  It's just not remotely true.

 

I mean Hextall was great i think at the draft and not some much when it come to NHL players and trades and free agency.

 

Fletcher from what i can tell sucks at both......so how is that an improvement??? I can't see it. And i know you're not saying it is but hopefully see my point/questioning???

[OccamsRazor]

2 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

Would someone please buy Holmgren a new bicycle and take him on a trip to Avalon?

 

How about get Holmgren to fire himself???