Niederreiter Traded For Victor Rask

[Icechipper]

Well Nino potted two goals tonight and as these things go likely to win player of the week honors. That's what happens when you play on a true first line Carolina) rather than on any given three 2nd or 3rd lines (in Minny)

[EmptyShelf]

On 8 shots with 18 TOI.  Have we ever traded a player lately (Burns) in an asset dump that made us look this dumb this fast?  NN is sure making Rask look like a pumpkin, and the Wild Mgmt/coaches like a 'clown car' - and they are with this trade.  

[TonyOday]

And when Nino again goes 14 games without a goal? He is a streaky player that CF gave too big of a contract too.

[EmptyShelf]

Wow, i sure hope that no one is 'fine with it (trading NN for Rask)' or still taking a 'wait and see' approach on this trade now.  Talk about a slice of humble pie for Fenton and Wild Mgmt (who thought this trade might work out?!?)  I predict Rask won't have 4 goals in the next month - maybe by year end. 

[EmptyShelf]

4 minutes ago, TonyOday said:

And when Nino again goes 14 games without a goal? He is a streaky player that CF gave too big of a contract too.

Rask may go half a season without a goal.  As for NN - do you want to wager on whether he scores twice as many goals for the Canes as the Wild by year-end (that's 14 goals) and performs at a 4:1+ clip versus Rask in goals? 

 

If not goals, what have you seen from Rask?  I have seen a few faceoffs won, a cheap aasist, and a pipe.  He is invisible on most shifts. I will take an 18 game drought after 4 goals over 1 goal in 30 games all day long.

[TropicalFruitGirl26]

I think, guys, we need to keep a bit of perspective when it comes to this trade.

How many times have we seen players who we KNOW are talented, flounder, struggle or otherwise incur the wrath of a fanbase....only to be traded, waived or non tendered...then find success elsewhere?

 

I am NOT making excuses for the Wild here, mind you. I certainly DID NOT want to see Nino (or Coyle as if oft rumored) go, but I also saw WHY the deal was made.
The trade, so far, is looking like gold for Carolina and rusty tin for us...and in the long run, it very well may go down as one of those trades we, indeed, lost, no ifs, ands or buts, about it.

But consider this:
With as much as Nino was struggling, does anyone here REALLY think he was just going to magically cure himself playing under the same system, under the same coach, or the same linemates here in Minnesota?
I am not damning anything Wild here but simply pointing out that Nino just was not getting it done, no matter where in the lineup Coach Boudreau put him, and, being that Nino is a proud player, he probably was putting a great deal of pressure on himself to perform...which in turn, likely made his and the team's plight worse.

 

Now he moves to a team with much lower overall expectations, a different coaching system, a more up tempo style, and a team that just absolutely preaches, attack, attack, attack (sometimes at the expense of defense), and in conjunction with what is likely a world of pressure lifted off his shoulders and the wholesale change of scenery, VOILA...Nino starts producing once again...….

 

I think most of the hockey world felt Nino > V. Rask when it comes to pure talent and potential as a go-to NHL'er, but again, Niederreiter simply was drowning with the Wild and personally, I saw no way, anytime soon, that he could pull himself out of it given the growing angst of the fanbase and his own expectations as to where he should be.

 

Could the Wild have gotten a bit more for him? Perhaps.
But maybe other teams were trying to out-wait Minnesota and would have been willing to give the Wild more at the deadline when MORE teams were likely to be in on Nino.

THAT is where I find the biggest fault in this trade.
The timing.

Had the Wild been a bit more patient, yet still were decided to move him, they probably could have gotten more for him (even if just upgraded draft picks.....Jeebus knows we need a better draft board!) had they waited closer to the trade deadline.

 

In the meantime, I will suffer right along with the rest of you seeing Nino do so well, at least at the start of his new path in Carolina, but at the same time, knowing that was NEVER going to happen like it is now with the Wild if everything else around him stood the same.
It simply was time for him to go....but if the Wild learned ANY lesson here, it is to pick the timing better.

[IllaZilla]

9 hours ago, Icechipper said:

Well Nino potted two goals tonight and as these things go likely to win player of the week honors. That's what happens when you play on a true first line Carolina) rather than on any given three 2nd or 3rd lines (in Minny)

 

Interesting how he's scored four goals in four games and still manages to be a -1 in Carolina...

[EmptyShelf]

15 minutes ago, TropicalFruitGirl26 said:

I think, guys, we need to keep a bit of perspective when it comes to this trade.

How many times have we seen players who we KNOW are talented, flounder, struggle or otherwise incur the wrath of a fanbase....only to be traded, waived or non tendered...then find success elsewhere?

 

I am NOT making excuses for the Wild here, mind you. I certainly DID NOT want to see Nino (or Coyle as if oft rumored) go, but I also saw WHY the deal was made.
The trade, so far, is looking like gold for Carolina and rusty tin for us...and in the long run, it very well may go down as one of those trades we, indeed, lost, no ifs, ands or buts, about it.

But consider this:
With as much as Nino was struggling, does anyone here REALLY think he was just going to magically cure himself playing under the same system, under the same coach, or the same linemates here in Minnesota?
I am not damning anything Wild here but simply pointing out that Nino just was not getting it done, no matter where in the lineup Coach Boudreau put him, and, being that Nino is a proud player, he probably was putting a great deal of pressure on himself to perform...which in turn, likely made his and the team's plight worse.

 

Now he moves to a team with much lower overall expectations, a different coaching system, a more up tempo style, and a team that just absolutely preaches, attack, attack, attack (sometimes at the expense of defense), and in conjunction with what is likely a world of pressure lifted off his shoulders and the wholesale change of scenery, VOILA...Nino starts producing once again...….

 

I think most of the hockey world felt Nino > V. Rask when it comes to pure talent and potential as a go-to NHL'er, but again, Niederreiter simply was drowning with the Wild and personally, I saw no way, anytime soon, that he could pull himself out of it given the growing angst of the fanbase and his own expectations as to where he should be.

 

Could the Wild have gotten a bit more for him? Perhaps.
But maybe other teams were trying to out-wait Minnesota and would have been willing to give the Wild more at the deadline when MORE teams were likely to be in on Nino.

THAT is where I find the biggest fault in this trade.
The timing.

Had the Wild been a bit more patient, yet still were decided to move him, they probably could have gotten more for him (even if just upgraded draft picks.....Jeebus knows we need a better draft board!) had they waited closer to the trade deadline.

 

In the meantime, I will suffer right along with the rest of you seeing Nino do so well, at least at the start of his new path in Carolina, but at the same time, knowing that was NEVER going to happen like it is now with the Wild if everything else around him stood the same.
It simply was time for him to go....but if the Wild learned ANY lesson here, it is to pick the timing better.

Your last point - he is an ASSET.  One of few we had with no NTC/NMC.  You don't sell/dump them in the manner Fenton did.  And there really wasn't this urgent need to do so.  It was a giveaway.  Whether he played up to a Canes level here or not was NOT the point - we threw him away for a more immovable (and still expensive) lower asset going forward.  This is the point.

[EJ0226]

2 minutes ago, TropicalFruitGirl26 said:

I think, guys, we need to keep a bit of perspective when it comes to this trade.

How many times have we seen players who we KNOW are talented, flounder, struggle or otherwise incur the wrath of a fanbase....only to be traded, waived or non tendered...then find success elsewhere?

 

I am NOT making excuses for the Wild here, mind you. I certainly DID NOT want to see Nino (or Coyle as if oft rumored) go, but I also saw WHY the deal was made.
The trade, so far, is looking like gold for Carolina and rusty tin for us...and in the long run, it very well may go down as one of those trades we, indeed, lost, no ifs, ands or buts, about it.

But consider this:
With as much as Nino was struggling, does anyone here REALLY think he was just going to magically cure himself playing under the same system, under the same coach, or the same linemates here in Minnesota?
I am not damning anything Wild here but simply pointing out that Nino just was not getting it done, no matter where in the lineup Coach Boudreau put him, and, being that Nino is a proud player, he probably was putting a great deal of pressure on himself to perform...which in turn, likely made his and the team's plight worse.

 

Now he moves to a team with much lower overall expectations, a different coaching system, a more up tempo style, and a team that just absolutely preaches, attack, attack, attack (sometimes at the expense of defense), and in conjunction with what is likely a world of pressure lifted off his shoulders and the wholesale change of scenery, VOILA...Nino starts producing once again...….

 

I think most of the hockey world felt Nino > V. Rask when it comes to pure talent and potential as a go-to NHL'er, but again, Niederreiter simply was drowning with the Wild and personally, I saw no way, anytime soon, that he could pull himself out of it given the growing angst of the fanbase and his own expectations as to where he should be.

 

Could the Wild have gotten a bit more for him? Perhaps.
But maybe other teams were trying to out-wait Minnesota and would have been willing to give the Wild more at the deadline when MORE teams were likely to be in on Nino.

THAT is where I find the biggest fault in this trade.
The timing.

Had the Wild been a bit more patient, yet still were decided to move him, they probably could have gotten more for him (even if just upgraded draft picks.....Jeebus knows we need a better draft board!) had they waited closer to the trade deadline.

 

In the meantime, I will suffer right along with the rest of you seeing Nino do so well, at least at the start of his new path in Carolina, but at the same time, knowing that was NEVER going to happen like it is now with the Wild if everything else around him stood the same.
It simply was time for him to go....but if the Wild learned ANY lesson here, it is to pick the timing better.

That's the thing for the Wild fan base, damn if you do and damn if you don't. I said it in another Nino thread but the Wild built the franchise to nourish and develop their core guys, Parise, Suter and Koivu. For years now we have seen that these guys are not able to make this team a real threat. So when the Wild should have been thinking that it was a mistake to focus on them and start drafting and developing their other guys they instead kept focusing on these three and signing their friends to the team well our draft players were never allowed to develop or at least play the game style the players were good at. So when they can't change their style to nourish the core 3 the Wild give up on them. Same with the players that go through a rough patch. We then get to watch those players go elsewhere, have the handcuffs removed, get help to develop and play their game and see them look fantastic. Haula, Tuch and right now Nino are the latest three showing this.

I still stand believe that the Parise and Suter signing and contracts will be the worst in Minnesota Pro sports history. They literally pushed the team to be a last spot Wild Card team that is a first round punching bag. They win enough to not be able to draft any type of impact player and their AHL team shows this. Our one highly rated prospect didn't hear a thing from the Wild and said he assumed they didn't care and signed in the KHL. What team doesn't communicate with their best prospect? I still think there is a good chance he doesn't come to the NHL. He is on the best team in the KHL. He is looking good there. He is at home. Why come to play for a team that is clearly in need of a rebuild but they refuse to believe that? Only reason he comes here is to play a year or two, try to look good and get signed elsewhere as the Wild have a lot of resigning to do in the next two years and if Kaprizov looks great here won't have the money to sign him unless they let a bunch of guys to go.

I know people don't want to see it or believe it but the team is a mess. They need to start giving the core guys 3rd and 4th line minutes and try to develop the other guys. Have the coaches work all the time with them. In key situations Parise, Suter and Koivu should not be out there anymore. Koivu is probably done after this season. Suter is regressing so fast it's almost comical. Parise is having one of his good seasons he has every 4 to 5 years. It's time to move towards the future. Cause if you want another 6 years and continue the downward trend you are not going to have a lot of fans left.

[EmptyShelf]

23 minutes ago, IllaZilla said:

 

Interesting how he's scored four goals in four games and still manages to be a -1 in Carolina...

And, Connor McDavid is one of the best players in the league and is +1.  What''s your point: that McDavid or NN sucks?  Do you know that Parise was -7 in a 4 game stretch last week and Coyle was -10 during the same stretch?  Plus/Minus is a tough stat to gauge how a player is doing - sometimes you are the reason for the Minus, sometimes you are the best player on the ice trying to carry lesser players and get hung with a Minus.  It also matters more when you get a minus (closely decided game versus late in a game when it is out of hand either way).  Food for thought.  NN was also the headliner for the win in both of thsee games (-1 or not).

[4Check]

30 minutes ago, EmptyShelf said:

Wow, i sure hope that no one is 'fine with it (trading NN for Rask)' or still taking a 'wait and see' approach on this trade now.  Talk about a slice of humble pie for Fenton and Wild Mgmt (who thought this trade might work out?!?)  I predict Rask won't have 4 goals in the next month - maybe by year end. 

It sure has been enjoyable watching the Wild play their best hockey of the year this past week.   

[EJ0226]

38 minutes ago, IllaZilla said:

 

Interesting how he's scored four goals in four games and still manages to be a -1 in Carolina...

Also interesting how Parise has had 6 seasons of being minus when he has scored point totals of 32, 62, 6, 69, 53 and 42. And right now Parise is just a +/- of + 4 with a 44 point season. He easily could fall into the negative.

My point is if the +/- is going to gauge a player then Parise is no better then Nino when Parise has scored a ton more of points and we are paying Parise a hell of a lot more money.

[EmptyShelf]

17 minutes ago, 4Check said:

It sure has been enjoyable watching the Wild play their best hockey of the year this past week.   

And that is due to the Rask/NN trade or corresponding implications of it?  Just wait until we play a string of teams (like last week) that we should walk over after ASG - we have seen this movie before. 

[4Check]

6 minutes ago, EmptyShelf said:

And that is due to the Rask/NN trade or corresponding implications of it?  Just wait until we play a string of teams (like last week) that we should walk over after ASG - we have seen this movie before. 

You mean teams like the ones the Wild lost to when Nino was in the lineup?

[IllaZilla]

Maybe the Nino/Rask trade was more of a long term move.

 

Staal will more than likely be gone after this season. Some GM will throw more than $3M/season at him.

 

After the 2019-2020 season, the Wild will have the following centers as UFA's:

Granlund

Koivu

Coyle

 

That would leave the Wild with 

Eriksson-Ek

Kunin

Rask

 

Koivu will more than likely retire. Granlund will want to get paid more, and if Coyle keeps progressing at center, he more than likely will command more than his current $3M/season. Jordan Greenway is an RFA and will more than likely command more than his current $900K compensation. Jared Spurgeon is also a UFA and will probably seek an increase on his $5M+/Year.

 

The Wild have always lacked depth at center. At least with Rask already signed, that's one center slot Fenton doesn't have to worry about. Plus, he saved almost $1.5M in cap space.

[4Check]

31 minutes ago, IllaZilla said:

Maybe the Nino/Rask trade was more of a long term move.

 

Staal will more than likely be gone after this season. Some GM will throw more than $3M/season at him.

 

After the 2019-2020 season, the Wild will have the following centers as UFA's:

Granlund

Koivu

Coyle

 

That would leave the Wild with 

Eriksson-Ek

Kunin

Rask

 

Koivu will more than likely retire. Granlund will want to get paid more, and if Coyle keeps progressing at center, he more than likely will command more than his current $3M/season. Jordan Greenway is an RFA and will more than likely command more than his current $900K compensation. Jared Spurgeon is also a UFA and will probably seek an increase on his $5M+/Year.

 

The Wild have always lacked depth at center. At least with Rask already signed, that's one center slot Fenton doesn't have to worry about. Plus, he saved almost $1.5M in cap space.

Interesting take.   My "seat of the pants" flyer on Fenton's trade for Rask is... A) No one would bite with any kind of decent draft pick  B) So,  Rask ends up a short term veteran body to fill a  top 9 C role until Fenton gets to the bigger deals he needs to make.    Wouldn't be shocked if Rask is flipped well before next training camp, especially if his play doesn't pick up relatively soon.

[Gnarkill]

The Wild have a pattern of getting the short end of the stick in trades and its across multiple GMs. Nino will do great in Carolina especially if he's put into a situation that caters to his skill set.. like being paired on a line with a guy like Aho and given top minutes. Something the Wild couldn't ever do because they haven't had any players of that caliber since Nino has been here. The part that stings the most about this deal isn't Nino being gone because who knows if he would have got it turned around here.. its that from early indications we basically got nothing worthwhile in return. We got fleeced yet again.

 

It's sickening how the Wild loses out in trades or gives up on players/prospects so often.. or gives away two good young players to protect lesser players in expansion. I'd understand it more if they were drafting well and holding onto our solid prospects and draft picks to actually rebuild at this point but this "put a band aid on it", "hockey trade" or "tweak" stuff is getting old. It's embarrassing seeing guys like Burns, Haula, Tuch and now Nino get shipped out and shine because they were lower on the pecking order than overrated and overpaid players that will never help the Wild win a cup.

[TonyOday]

50 minutes ago, Gnarkill said:

It's embarrassing seeing guys like Burns, Haula, Tuch and now Nino get shipped out and shine because they were lower on the pecking order than overrated and overpaid players that will never help the Wild win a cup.

 

Well Burns wanted the moon and we could not afford it and it was a gamble we decided not to take. Haula and Tuch we traded so we could keep Dumba...I think it was dumb but they way he was playing this year it was working and lets see what happens to Haula's speed after the knee injury and Nino got paid $1 million too much for being as streaky as he is and how weak he was on the puck this year, look like he was playing hurt.

[Gnarkill]

We may have lost Haula either way but the Wild could have protected Dumba, Suter and Spurgeon while not protecting Brodin.. which is what I would have done. Brodin is solid but he's a bit overpaid and I would have taken that chance at them selecting either Haula or Brodin rather than  giving away Tuch just to make sure Haula was taken. 

 

I also would have gambled on Burns but I'll admit I'm biased there because he was one of my favorite Wild players at the time and I valued what he brought to the table higher than a lot of the players on the team back then. There's always a way to make cap space and structure contracts. We wouldn't have been able to sign Suter or Parise probably.. or maybe just one of the two if we did but I'd have been okay with that. 

 

It's all just more "would have, could have, should have" at this point though lol hindsight is a sob and we're stuck with what we have. I just needed to rant my frustrations haha

[EmptyShelf]

19 minutes ago, TonyOday said:

 

Well Burns wanted the moon and we could not afford it and it was a gamble we decided not to take. Haula and Tuch we traded so we could keep Dumba...I think it was dumb but they way he was playing this year it was working and lets see what happens to Haula's speed after the knee injury and Nino got paid $1 million too much for being as streaky as he is and how weak he was on the puck this year, look like he was playing hurt.

While I respect your points and interpretations - you CANNOT flush assets.  Let me make it simple.  Two teams comprised of these transactions, which one do you want at present (other implications being tertiary at this point).  I will take Team 1 HANDS DOWN, and I get contract implications/affordability, fit in team, and all other EXCUSE MAKING.  We are talking ASSETS and Idiotic decisions herein:

 

Team 1                     G        A       Pts                                                          Team 2                    G       A      Pts

 

Brett Burns              9         46      55                                                           Charlie Coyle          9       17    26

*Eric Haula              2           7         9                                                           *Protect Dumba   12      10    22

Alex Tuch               16         24      40                                                            Viktor Rask             1        6      7

Nino Nederreiter   13        14       27

                                                                                * injured 2019

___________________________________________________________________________________________________

                                 40        91     131                                                                                          22       33    55  

[EmptyShelf]

Taking it a step further, add the 3 Country Club Members we are always trying to protect and maximize as ASSETS:

 

Team Country Club

                         G     A     Pts

Parise             20    24   44    

Suter                 6    27    33

Koivu                 7    21    28

__________________________________

                         33    72   105

 

Team 1                     G        A       Pts                                                          

 

Brett Burns              9         46      55                                                           

*Eric Haula              2           7         9                                                           

Alex Tuch               16         24      40                                                            

Nino Nederreiter   13        14       27

_____________________________________

                                 40        91      131

 

Which Team do you want?  For me, Team 1 - HANDS DOWN.  They are also younger and (likely cheaper)!

 

[4Check]

1 hour ago, EmptyShelf said:

Taking it a step further, add the 3 Country Club Members we are always trying to protect and maximize as ASSETS:

 

Team Country Club

                         G     A     Pts

Parise             20    24   44    

Suter                 6    27    33

Koivu                 7    21    28

__________________________________

                         33    72   105

 

Team 1                     G        A       Pts                                                          

 

Brett Burns              9         46      55                                                           

*Eric Haula              2           7         9                                                           

Alex Tuch               16         24      40                                                            

Nino Nederreiter   13        14       27

_____________________________________

                                 40        91      131

 

Which Team do you want?  For me, Team 1 - HANDS DOWN.  They are also younger and (likely cheaper)!

 

Was it Peter Chiarelli who recently said....hindsight is 20/20.      And just a slight clarification.   The Wild are not TRYING to protect Parise and Suter.  They have full NTC's, which by NHL expansion draft rules forces the Wild to protect them.  Unless of course you can convince them to waive the aforementioned.

[Icechipper]

Keep perspective: walk it back and we acquired Nino by moving Cal Clutterbuck who basically runs around (it's a stretch to call his hockey gait skating) trying to hit people.....

[EmptyShelf]

On 1/24/2019 at 5:15 PM, 4Check said:

Was it Peter Chiarelli who recently said....hindsight is 20/20.      And just a slight clarification.   The Wild are not TRYING to protect Parise and Suter.  They have full NTC's, which by NHL expansion draft rules forces the Wild to protect them.  Unless of course you can convince them to waive the aforementioned.

Protect: As in Core of their franchise, to be fawned over and built around (at the expense of other developing players - to be moved for lack of fit or lack of contract fit with the Country Club).  I am fully aware of the NMC/NTC's, and that was NOT the intention of my use of 'protect.'  Try to keep up....  Hindsight from a trade one week ago for the Wild versus over a few years for Peter C. in Edmonton?!?  

[EmptyShelf]

35 minutes ago, Icechipper said:

Keep perspective: walk it back and we acquired Nino by moving Cal Clutterbuck who basically runs around (it's a stretch to call his hockey gait skating) trying to hit people.....

Solid point.  The trade to acquire NN was a steal (in my opinion).  It was one of the few times that I felt like CF justified himself as GM, while the Islanders GM (I believe Garth Snow) acted just as petulant and stupid as Fenton just did with NN - "We are not getting what we want immediately on our timetable, even though we have other slugs that aren't performing either...so, you gotta go, regardless of what we get in return"