Off Season Priorities

[elmatus]

This year has been a tough one for fans. Many of us thought we would be seeing a decent step forward this year, but we really didn't. This is still a team that at best seems to struggle to even be a bubble team. It's not all bad of course. A number of our highly touted prospects are finally getting ice time at the NHL level, and Carter Hart spent a dozen games making the league his personal... 

 

Personally, I view this upcoming off season as being very important. To me, Fletch simply can't just stand put and hope this current combination of players will take that next step without some substantial changes. We've been saying that same line for years now, and it's not working. Fletch needs to do more than hope.

 

So what does that entail?

 

Well, getting a new coaching staff seems like the most obvious step to take. I don't know who should be involved in that, but I do think it starts with that. I'm sure he's already looking at options, and I for one really hope those options include changing more than just the head coach. The team needs a wholesale revamp of this largely ineffective coaching staff imo.

 

Secondly, we have cap space. Not all that many teams have the space we do, and we could pretty easily get more via a buyout of someone like McDud if needed to land a solid player. Now, some of that space will have to go to signing pending RFAs and UFAs, so it's not just a big open cheque, but it should still leave us with a sizable amount of space.

 

Notable players needing a new contract after the season include (current salary in parentheses): Raffl ($2.3mil), Laughton ($960k), TK ($900k), Hartman ($875k), Provorov ($900k), Sanheim ($865k), Talbot ($4.2mil), Elliott ($2.7mil)

 

Total projected cap space right now: $8.8million

 

Who would you resign from that list and for how much?

 

Aside from all that, there are some notable UFAs who will be hitting the market (Full list: https://www.spotrac.com/nhl/free-agents/ufa/). Some of those may yet be resigned with current teams, but we can at least chat about the possibility of signing them.

 

What would you say are our biggest needs? Is there anyone from that list you would pursue? Given the potential resigns mentioned above, how much do you offer them?

 

For me, I see some pretty big needs up and down the line up, but mostly I think we need to shake up our top six core players. They're not getting the job done, and they're not getting any younger. JVR would be the most expendable in my view. I'd likely be looking to pawn him off somewhere. With him off the books, I'd be offering a good amount of money to Panarin. He's likely to get an easy 9 million from someone, why not us?

 

For resigning, Provo, TK, and Sanheim are the top three to be resigned without question. In a perverse way, we may be blessed with Provo having a down year this season. It may mean he'll be willing to settle for less money than he might have if he'd played two seasons in a row of norris-level hockey. I'd see if he bites on 6 million per year for max duration, but more than likely it'll take 7 per, and that's fine.

 

TK and Sanheim don't command that same level, but they're still going to get a raise, especially TK. How much of a raise is a hard thing to figure. I'd probably try to get TK to sign at $4.5mil and see if he bites, but he'll likely ask for at least 5. He's a hard one to gauge at this point for me. Sanheim is a prime candidate for some sort of two year bridge deal at maybe $1.5 to $2mil per year. That would place him as a very attractive commodity for Seattle though.

 

I like many of the others on the UFA list as well, particularly Raffl and Laughton. Hartman may grow on me as we see him play as well, and I somehow doubt Fletch brought him in just to drop him in the off season. Resigning them however would largely depend on how things go with the first three I mentioned, and whether we can somehow get our hands on Panarin.

 

As far as Talbot and Elliott go, I don't like either of them. We do need someone to back up Hart though. If Talbot wants any more than 2.5mil per year for a pair, I'd let him walk without a second thought. I don't think he's worth the money whatsoever at this point. I'm not an Elliott fan either, but we really don't need much, and he's at a better price point. I don't really care either way what Fletch does here, but I'd probably go with whichever of the two will play for less.

 

What are you folks thinking?

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

There isn't a whole lot that needs to be done when you look at the big picture. This is going to be a young team and there's going to be lots of young players who are going to be worked into the lineup. 

 

We all know that a new coach and coaching staff will be coming to Philadelphia. However, I'd like to see a new coach and coaching staff in Lehigh Valley as well. Coaches in both places that use the same system and terminology should be a must and then that way, the young guys down in Lehigh Valley know what to do when they get called up. It's seamless and they can contribute right away. 

 

The biggest issue is going to be finding playing time and who plays where. For instance, what do the Flyers do with Farabee and Frost? If they both make the team, where do you play them? Gut feeling is that they probably get sent to Lehigh Valley, but it certainly creates a good situation.

 

I don't see the Flyers going after Panarin. I think the top six in Philadelphia is set with Giroux - Patrick - Voracek and Lindblom - Couturier - Konecny. Third line is two thirds complete with JVR and Hartman and the fourth will consist of Laughton and two other players.

 

I'll start with the fourth line first because it's the easiest to address. Keep Laughton on the left side, call up NAK for the right side and then sign a guy like Brian Boyle to play the middle. This line doesn't need to put up points, Laughton and NAK bring speed and forechecking while Boyle is a much needed face off specialist. 

 

As for the third line, that's where things get dicey. If Frost isn't ready, do the Flyers use Vorobyov there? If Vorobyov fails, then what do the Flyers do. Part of me thinks that a free agent is probably going to be signed and that someone like Anders Lee or Brock Nelson might be that guy. They might get a 5 or 6 year deal, but there's going to be no NMC given, so they'll be good for the expansion draft. 

 

Defense shouldn't be a big problem. Right now, you could go with Provorov - Meyers, Sanheim - Gudas, Morin - Gostisbehere and that allows for MacTurd and Hagg to be moved. I'd love to have a veteran, but Provorov, Gudas, and Gostisbehere have been in the league long enough that they're veterans now. 

 

Finally, there's goaltending. We all know that Hart is the present and future. What the Flyers need is a LEGITIMATE back up. Jimmy Howard might be the ideal player here. He's the perfect mentor for Hart. I'm not sure if Talbot is the answer (although it's hard to know since he hasn't played a game) and Elliott is at the point in his career where he's injury prone. He's very good when he plays and gets on a roll, but often gets hurt at inopportune times. 

 

So, coaching staffs in both Philadelphia and Lehigh Valley and a few tweaks and the lineup is good to go. The only other thing the Flyers really need is time and patience, especially if there are numerous young players in the lineup and they're playing prominent roles.

[vis]

On 3/1/2019 at 3:19 PM, elmatus said:

What are you folks thinking?

One thing is certain:  I don't see them going into next season with $2m+ in space.  They are going to spend $$$ this offseason.

 

Forwards

I would not resign Raffl.  I don't have a problem resigning Laughton as long as he's 4C.  He should not be 3C.  Obviously TK and Hartman will be signed.  Neither Knight nor Varone should be regulars next year.  I don't know if any of the young guys, e.g., Frost, Rubtsov or Ratcliffe or anyone else in LV are on the verge of making the team next year.  Honestly, I know Frost has produced well, but he might be well served in the AHL for a year.

 

So, this is how things look to me:

Giroux/Couturier/Voracek

JVR/Patrick/TK

Lindblom/____/____

____/Laughton/Hartman

 

I think C and RW should be priorities.  But if they keep G at C, then they need to target LW.

 

That said, I think they will push hard for Panarin and then figure out how the lineup shakes out.  Failing that, I think they go after Duchene or Hayes or possibly Skinner, even though he's LW.  Brock Nelson might be interesting.  Any interest in Dzingel?  There really isn't much in UFA that I like as a RW, but feel like a lower tier guy would be available.  I suppose they may let Hartman slot as 3LW and maybe give Bailey a shot at 4RW.

 

Defense

Really need to figure out what to do here.  They need a solid vet back there, and I mean a legit top 4 d-man.  They already have 8 guys on the roster.  I do not expect MacDonald to take a regular shift next year.  But something else has to give.  I think Ghost and Hagg will be trade bait for a forward or two or maybe a vet d-man. 

 

I think Karlsson is a pipe dream.  Stralman is getting older, but he's a solid guy.  Tyler Myers does nothing for me.  Alex Edler?  Jay Bouwmeester?  I'm just throwing names out there at this point.

 

Should be the most interesting off season we have had in a long time.

[mojo1917]

1 hour ago, vis said:

I think Karlsson is a pipe dream.  Stralman is getting older, but he's a solid guy.  Tyler Myers does nothing for me.  Alex Edler?  Jay Bouwmeester?  I'm just throwing names out there at this point.

None of those dudes after Karlsson.

 

It will be Provorov's 4th season, Sanheim's 3rd, Ghost's 5th, Hagg's 4th, they're veteran players. I think Myers' attitude might land him in the top pairing, because, he's about it. That kid wants the puck, is big enough and skates well enough where there aren't a lot of people to keep him from it. He is freakin' exciting. 

I don't bring in any middling dudes on defense. I let our guys turn into our middling dudes, they're cheaper and screw Jay Bo and Edler pfft.

 

If Ekblad,  Karlsson, Subban ?,Josi or Doughty come available (they won't) I would hope we're in on them hard. 

I don't think there needs to be a "veteran presence" beyond the butcher, unless it is a clear "bring-people-to-the-rink-to-watch-him" superstar. 

 

 

 

[Podein25]

My two cents on the D question. I agree we need a vet or two for the kids not named MacDonald. H'e snot a UFA but the kind of guy I want is an experienced Swede like Mattias Ekholm. Big, smart, positionally sound. Maybe Edler in VAN is a poor man's Ekholm?

 

lol @ "snot"

[OccamsRazor]

2 hours ago, vis said:

I think C and RW should be priorities.

 

The biggest problem with this is when you go after the free agents you wouldn't want to block a kid in a year or two so how do you do this and get some solid talent and not do this?

 

I don't know how to do it to be honest last thing i want is a contract or two to know be an issue for a few years after getting out from under Wiese and Mcud...

[vis]

1 hour ago, mojo1917 said:

I don't think there needs to be a "veteran presence" beyond the butcher, unless it is a clear "bring-people-to-the-rink-to-watch-him" superstar. 

I really do think they need some veteran leadership back there.  I think some of what ails Provorov and maybe Ghost is the lack of such leadership.  It's still a very young defense, despite the fact that Provorov and Ghost have been here 4+ years.  They need good examples and mentors.  I'm not sure they ever had it.

[OccamsRazor]

7 minutes ago, vis said:

I really do think they need some veteran leadership back there. 

 

I would love to see the Flyers this offseason try and say trade Hagg and a pick for a Mark Giordano type leader.

 

He is on the books for next year and two after that one for 6.75 mill.

 

Not sure the Flames would even be willing to move him but his skills are something i would covet.

 

Ekholm is a good one Pods mentioned but i can't see the Preds parting with him in his prime unless it is a huge over payment.

[vis]

2 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

The biggest problem with this is when you go after the free agents you wouldn't want to block a kid in a year or two so how do you do this and get some solid talent and not do this?

 

I don't know how to do it to be honest last thing i want is a contract or two to know be an issue for a few years after getting out from under Wiese and Mcud...

I'll gladly take a Panarin or Duchene or maybe even a Hayes or Skinner at the risk of blocking a prospect who may not ever make a meaningful dent in an NHL roster.  That's a non-issue to me.

 

I get the concern if we are talking about signing someone of lower stature.  Even then, it may not be a bad thing depending on term.  I suppose we need to ask how close Frost, Farabee, Ratcliffe and Strome and maybe a few others are to having a very realistic shot at making the team?

 

 

[vis]

17 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

Not sure the Flames would even be willing to move him but his skills are something i would covet.

He's having a Norris-type season.  Doubt the Flames would move him.  Though, I hear your point about the type of player to target.

 

17 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

Ekholm is a good one Pods mentioned but i can't see the Preds parting with him in his prime unless it is a huge over payment.

Probably not happening, either.

[OccamsRazor]

8 minutes ago, vis said:

He's having a Norris-type season. 

 

Yeah i just looked at his production. Wasn't aware he had 61 points in 63 games.

 

Yeah even at 35 and he has a modified NTC and has spent his whole career in Calgary so can't see him going anywhere but retirement.

 

However he is a good example of the vet type they need. There aren't any of those types on the market though.

[Podein25]

1 hour ago, vis said:

Probably not happening, either.

 

No, there's no way the Preds move Ekholm. He's a bargain at $3.5M. I'm just saying we need a guy like that. Doesn't have to be Swedish, but that country sure breeds smart, boring D-men.

[OccamsRazor]

29 minutes ago, Podein25 said:

 

No, there's no way the Preds move Ekholm. He's a bargain at $3.5M. I'm just saying we need a guy like that. Doesn't have to be Swedish, but that country sure breeds smart, boring D-men.

 

Flyers have one who is playing in the SHL as a 18 year old....6-4 205 Adam Ginning moves pretty well for a big D man.

 

And can put the puck in the net...

 

 

He is just a few years away....i would like to see him come over next year and get a head start on his north america career.

[Podein25]

3 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Flyers have one who is playing in the SHL as a 18 year old....6-4 205 Adam Ginning moves pretty well for a big D man.

 

And can put the puck in the net...

 

 

He is just a few years away....i would like to see him come over next year and get a head start on his north america career.

 

Yeah, too bad he's not 27

[brelic]

15 hours ago, vis said:

I'll gladly take a Panarin or Duchene or maybe even a Hayes or Skinner at the risk of blocking a prospect who may not ever make a meaningful dent in an NHL roster.  That's a non-issue to me.

 

I get the concern if we are talking about signing someone of lower stature.  Even then, it may not be a bad thing depending on term.  I suppose we need to ask how close Frost, Farabee, Ratcliffe and Strome and maybe a few others are to having a very realistic shot at making the team?

 

 

 

Agreed. Any vet we sign or trade for has to be better than what we have... otherwise there's no point. 

 

Continuing on that theme, I'm starting to think a 2C would be a smarter idea over a 3C. Not force Patrick into that role next year. I mean, we all hope and believe he will be successful, but he just can't have another slow start to a season, and give us 11 points in 40 games. So until he's ready to be that guy, why not bring in a guy like Duchene? Couturier/Duchene/Patrick/Frost starts to look pretty deadly. If Patrick *forces* his way to 1C or 2C over the next few years, that's a good problem to have! In the meantime, they'll have a solid 1 through 3 C, and a really fast 4th line.

 

Also, Duchene has played wing, so there's a built-in versatility there.

 

Lindblom/Coots/Voracek

G/Duchene/TK

JVR/Patrick/Laughton

Hartman/Frost or Rubtsov/Bailey or NAK

 

 

[ruxpin]

I don't need a veteran D.  We have them at this point. And there's no one out there I really want. 

 

I'll move Ghost and/or Hagg in the right deal, but I'm advocating for neither. 

 

I'll wait and see how Hartman does before slotting him in on either 3rd or 4th line. Or even extending him. 

 

I'll take a one or two year deal on a 3C and a 3RW depending upon what we're doing with Hartman. 

 

I wouldn't hate a Panarin signing, but I don't want Skinner. 

 

I don't think the big moves are necessary.  It's possible given the last two years that we have a lot of second half players. That's a problem, if so.  But otherwise, I don't think we need a bunch of big moves and I don't think it's as bad as the OP indicates. 

[ruxpin]

My number one offseason hope:  do SOMETHING with Macdonald.  I don't need to see him in a Flyer uniform tomorrow, let alone next year. 

[mojo1917]

@vis

@Podein25

 

While I do understand the concept of what you are saying; 

I also A) don't think the guys we ( the collective we ) would want to fill that role would be available, Pods example of Eckholm for instance is a pipe dream. The Flyers would be giving up major assets for a middle 4 guy, I don't think that's good management of the team's considerable assets. 

So that leads to B) detritus and has-beens...again the example of Ehlers from Vancouver as Eckholm-lite, he's not even the guy we'd want, he's not coming east for "a couple of years" we're committing to a guy like that for 5 years at least and for what, 3-4 more years of experience ? 

3) (for any Mr Mom fans) a signing like that might actually delay our guys growing up because well, "a little better than meh is here and he'll take care of it". Think of how much more gravitas Provorov has when he's telling Zamula how " Dave Hakstol called him a rotten piece of **** everyday for 3 years, and he never cried" . As opposed to Lars Ehlers holding his hand and telling him it will be alright he's made bad outlet passes too.

Now I am being a little silly with some of this but my point is I don't spend assets on those middle pairing guys. 

I do think about sending Voracek, Hagg and a first to Calgary for Giordano, or to LA for Doughty,  If my team is to give up some good players I want somebody awesome coming back for them.

[brelic]

3 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

My number one offseason hope:  do SOMETHING with Macdonald.  I don't need to see him in a Flyer uniform tomorrow, let alone next year. 

 

Don't worry, he will not be on the team next year. Fletch has shown a willingness to dispense with the garbage, and Macdud is next. 

 

I don't think a buy-out makes much sense. He would cost $1.2M against the cap next year and $1.9M the following year.

 

Unless we absolutely spend to the cap and need the space, I say just send him to LHV. He will count $4M towards the cap, but only for next season then he's gone. 

[brelic]

9 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

I'll wait and see how Hartman does before slotting him in on either 3rd or 4th line. Or even extending him. 

 

You think so? I mean, I agree that these last 16 games are really an audition for where he slots... but I would be very surprised if Fletch doesn't even bother to tender an offer to the guy that came back in the Simmonds deal. 

 

Stranger things have happened, though.. 

 

He's young, fast, aggressive, former 1st rounder, and in the NHL now, which is already years ahead of what we potentially have in LHV. There's no one there that's really knocking down the door.

 

9 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

I wouldn't hate a Panarin signing, but I don't want Skinner. 

 

I don't think the big moves are necessary.  It's possible given the last two years that we have a lot of second half players. That's a problem, if so.  But otherwise, I don't think we need a bunch of big moves and I don't think it's as bad as the OP indicates. 

 

The only thing that sucks about a Panarin signing is that he's a LW. That pushes Lindblom and JVR down to the 3rd and 4th lines. Unless you move G back to center.

 

But if you have to shift your players around so much to fit one guy, maybe he's the wrong guy, you know?

 

 

[Podein25]

34 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

@vis

@Podein25

 

While I do understand the concept of what you are saying; 

I also A) don't think the guys we ( the collective we ) would want to fill that role would be available, Pods example of Eckholm for instance is a pipe dream. The Flyers would be giving up major assets for a middle 4 guy, I don't think that's good management of the team's considerable assets. 

So that leads to B) detritus and has-beens...again the example of Ehlers from Vancouver as Eckholm-lite, he's not even the guy we'd want, he's not coming east for "a couple of years" we're committing to a guy like that for 5 years at least and for what, 3-4 more years of experience ? 

3) (for any Mr Mom fans) a signing like that might actually delay our guys growing up because well, "a little better than meh is here and he'll take care of it". Think of how much more gravitas Provorov has when he's telling Zamula how " Dave Hakstol called him a rotten piece of **** everyday for 3 years, and he never cried" . As opposed to Lars Ehlers holding his hand and telling him it will be alright he's made bad outlet passes too.

Now I am being a little silly with some of this but my point is I don't spend assets on those middle pairing guys. 

I do think about sending Voracek, Hagg and a first to Calgary for Giordano, or to LA for Doughty,  If my team is to give up some good players I want somebody awesome coming back for them.

 

Just to clarify mojo: I know Ekholm is a pipe dream. I want a D-man like him. Which also might be a pipe dream I guess. I'm not really interested in trading assets for a guy like Giordano. I guess I'm talking about finding an experienced 27 yr old that's not too expensive and can provide some mentorship to the young guns. Maybe in Europe, I don't know. Get fukcing Kim Johnson out of retirement!

 

Maybe you can get an Edler (Note: Ehlers is the fast skating Dane on the Jets) on a 2-year deal. And maybe he doesn't suck. (Vancouver is a team I rarely watch). I'm just spit balling here...

[OccamsRazor]

56 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

 

I do think about sending Voracek, Hagg and a first to Calgary for Giordano, or to LA for Doughty, 

 

I would do this. Or even JVR if they prefer.

[OccamsRazor]

55 minutes ago, brelic said:

 

Don't worry, he will not be on the team next year. Fletch has shown a willingness to dispense with the garbage, and Macdud is next. 

 

I don't think a buy-out makes much sense. He would cost $1.2M against the cap next year and $1.9M the following year.

 

Unless we absolutely spend to the cap and need the space, I say just send him to LHV. He will count $4M towards the cap, but only for next season then he's gone. 

 

Or send him somewhere and pickup half the tab isn't a bad move for a 17th round pick or something....

[OccamsRazor]

52 minutes ago, brelic said:

Unless you move G back to center.

 

I wouldn't want G off the LW hennis better suited there.

 

So it's possible after you sign Panarin for the sake of this convoy I would try hard maybe to move JVR.

 

Not sure you a 7.5 mill 3rd line LW.

[vis]

3 hours ago, brelic said:

So until he's ready to be that guy, why not bring in a guy like Duchene? Couturier/Duchene/Patrick/Frost starts to look pretty deadly. 

Agree.  I'd really like to see them get after Duchene or even Hayes.  I think they have a decent shot at getting either of them, probably moreso than Panarin.  I'm sure there is going to be a bidding war for Duchene, though.  And as much as I'd love to see Panarin, I'd rather keep Giroux on the wing.  And I don't see them being able to move JVR to make room at LW.