Minnesota Wild vs Winnipeg Jets, Tuesday 4-2-19, 7:00pm, Xcel Energy Center

[sweetshot]

10 hours ago, EJ0226 said:

Honestly, I find this win upsetting. All season they had the ability to control their destiny by just trying and putting in the effort. Majority of the time they didn't. Finally once the control is taken out of their hands they go out and put in a full effort, nice looking game. It's all for nothing. Frustrating.

 

I hate this season. Feels like a season of a team trying for maybe 25% of the time. This year is so open for anybody in the West to go to the cup. It was the perfect time for the Wild but due to their effort and lack of interest they don't even get a shot. And I hate hearing the excuses of we were down Dumba and Koivu. So what? Other teams lose key players all year. The Wild have played that card to much. All it shows is either you lack depth or can't develop players. Other teams are going to the playoffs in the same situation. Hell the Flyers are only 1 point behind us and they are on goalie # 8 for the season! They have a excuse to be at last place and they aren't.

Lack of effort--bulls***--that's way too easy of an explanation. Lack of effort was way down on the list of reasons why the Wild missed the playoffs.

[CreaseAndAssist]

9 hours ago, sweetshot said:

Lack of effort--bulls***--that's way too easy of an explanation. Lack of effort was way down on the list of reasons why the Wild missed the playoffs.

 

No, not really.  Lack of effort, particularly at home was pretty much the entire reason this team is missing the playoffs.  We looked lethargic and uninspired far too many times on home ice; especially on long home stands.  Those lost opportunities undermined their season.  

 

But please share with us the alleged real reasons why the Wild missed the playoffs this season.  I really do care to know.   

[sweetshot]

1 hour ago, CreaseAndAssist said:

 

No, not really.  Lack of effort, particularly at home was pretty much the entire reason this team is missing the playoffs.  We looked lethargic and uninspired far too many times on home ice; especially on long home stands.  Those lost opportunities undermined their season.  

 

But please share with us the alleged real reasons why the Wild missed the playoffs this season.  I really do care to know.   

Falloff in production from key players.

Average goaltending.

Poor home record.

Not enough talent.

Not enough grit.

Lack of 5 on 5 production.

Injuries.

Poor line combinations.

Improved play from division rivals.

Aging veterans.

 

I think lack of effort affects all teams and players at one time or another throughout the season, but IMO it is not the main reason the Wild missed the playoffs. 

[ClusterChuck]

50 minutes ago, sweetshot said:

 

 

Falloff in production from key players.... 'Stone hands Zucker' and Staal not even close to 1/2 of last season. Check.

Average goaltending. ... Sure, But due to many items on this list and only 1 goalie really.

Poor home record. ... *See fans busy on phones checking FB.

Not enough talent. ... Pre-trades, There was enough talent to at least make the playoffs, But see #1

Not enough grit. ... Whaddaya mean, 2 players isn't enough?

 

Lack of 5 on 5 production. ... Ding Ding ! *See #1 again.

Injuries. ...All teams have them, But we seem to have more of our key players go down more than most. Check

Poor line combinations. ... Blendered lines night after night. Check

Improved play from division rivals. ...Not really, As bad as we were, We were still in it until a few made a push late, Very late. Stl and Dallas. Plus we swept the Jets.

Aging veterans....Needed...Who we can't get rid of...to get a 'Check'.

 

My top one from your list is the poor line combo's. Because of other's on the list. Early in the season we ruined whoever was playing well by putting them with a Nino or Coyle to "get them going"...Continually working that blender game after game ruined any chemistry with players. Sure they should know most of their team mates' play, But how many other teams scramble their lines as much as we do??

 

This is my vote for why we didn't make the PO's.

[CreaseAndAssist]

1 hour ago, sweetshot said:

Falloff in production from key players.

Average goaltending.

Poor home record.

Not enough talent.

Not enough grit.

Lack of 5 on 5 production.

Injuries.

Poor line combinations.

Improved play from division rivals.

Aging veterans.

 

I think lack of effort affects all teams and players at one time or another throughout the season, but IMO it is not the main reason the Wild missed the playoffs. 

 

(yawn)  Even with Dumba and Koivu out, there was enough talent to make the playoffs IMO.  It doesn't mean we'd go anywhere once we got to the post season but honestly...3-4 very winnable games swing the other way and we're in.  

 

#1 Culture Problem - IMO, that was a major reason for the underperformance of the veterans.  Perhaps so many of the players having children at the same time meant they were distracted at home, but still...the vets are way too comfortable.  At home, they were lazy and uninspired which spawned the poor home record.  You jumble lines; but avoiding reducing time and role for underperforming vets so you spend time chasing your tail hoping to motivate them indirectly.  

 

#2 Aging Veterans - Older veterans; other than Parise looked and played slower and older IMO.  

 

#3 Division Rivals are stronger and younger with deeper prospect pools.  

 

[Math]

4 hours ago, sweetshot said:

 

 

Falloff in production from key players.

>>> With an unexpected 40+ goal scorer (Staal) and a red-hot Zucker plus a good contribution from Nino and Granlund, the Wild just made it to the postseason last year. As it was obvious that their numbers would decrease, it was sufficient to anchor this team to the bottom 16. Moreover, Koivu played koivuer... Sustained, Your Honor. 

 

Average goaltending

>>> Average, and I would add inconsistent and hot helped by a decent #2 goalie. Last year also, Dubnyk was much better, resulting in a #8 spot. Sustained, Your Honor.

 

Poor home record

>>> And that's a real mystery given the fact that the Wild always has been considered as one of the top team at home. With only Detroit and LA being under ,500 at home, you just can't pretend to a playoff spot with this. Sustained, Your Honor.

 

Not enough talent.

>>> I won't debate on this and give full credit on the ones that are following closer this organisation and its affiliates. By default, Sustained, Your Honor.

 

Not enough grit.

>>> Objection, Your Honor, I would say not enough desire to play with grit. No regular effort, a brillant 60-mn game followed by an insipid perfomance the game after. No regularity and consistancy. I think that we missed an fundamental aspect here that caused the Wild woes this season: the mental. We all know that if they want, they can. But the main problem is between the two shoulders. But given the original statement, Sustained, Your Honor.

 

Lack of 5 on 5 production.

>>> Pretty straightforward as the Wild was not that terrible in special situations, but this comes with the key players' production. Sustained, Your Honor.

 

Injuries.

>>> The loss of Dumba hurt the team a lot, true. But all players should have stepped up from that. Every team faces injuries soon or later at one point. I remember that Pittsburgh played sometimes with only 3 of its usual D-men, plus all the concussion that plagued Crosby and bone-glass Malkin. And they still managed to face adversity. It seems that the Wild just collapsed following the loss of Dumba, as if the World was destroyed. Rejected, You Honor.

 

Improved play from division rivals.

>>> Well, not really IMO. St-Louis started really bad before they definitely started to play hockey with Bérubé on the bench. Arizona was still Arizona, We were 5-0 vs the Jets and we were not capable to challenge a Chicago team that has never been that bad since the Towes-Kane era. Rejected, Your Honor. 

 

Aging veterans.

>>> Staal seemed to have taken 15 years since last season, and we definitely need a good mechanic for Parisé in the years to come... and Suter continues to be more and more suterized. Sustained, Your Honor.

[Confrontational]

Curious how many softies Doobie let in - and then if they lost that game ultimately pulling him and losing by 2 or 1...  Bet that would be an interesting number...  Not to blame just the goalie - but watched a couple of games this year - you know the kinds of goals I'm talking about...

 

If this year was anything like most of the others over the past decade - I'd say they have a "hunger" issue - and I think it stems from many of the things already mentioned - but just don't seem hungry to do what it takes and fight for it - even in the playoffs - as we've seen year after year...

 

Well, at least now Ryan can go count his millions on his farm now...  Maybe he'll get a couple calls from Carrier to do some new commercials - or maybe the Wild ownership will run their new promo campaign by him during the offseason to entice fans to buy tickets...

[EJ0226]

38 minutes ago, Villette/Lavaux said:

Aging veterans.

>>> Staal seemed to have taken 15 years since last season, and we definitely need a good mechanic for Parisé in the years to come... and Suter continues to be more and more suterized. Sustained, Your Honor

If Staal aged 15 years then Suter aged a good 30 years. I don't care what his stats say, he looked horrible. Out of position all the time. So slow that I am wondering if Vanek is twice as fast as Suter now. Bad turnovers. No fight for defending guys. Basically making his line mate, usually Spurgeon, have to cover two guys well Suter sits away from the play. I mean it's so bad. If any other player did that they would be cut.

[EmptyShelf]

23 minutes ago, EJ0226 said:

If Staal aged 15 years then Suter aged a good 30 years. I don't care what his stats say, he looked horrible. Out of position all the time. So slow that I am wondering if Vanek is twice as fast as Suter now. Bad turnovers. No fight for defending guys. Basically making his line mate, usually Spurgeon, have to cover two guys well Suter sits away from the play. I mean it's so bad. If any other player did that they would be cut.

Without the ridiculous ice-time, and cherry picked second assists, he would have miserable statistics.  He is -6, and would be about -20 without Spurgeon, and all the cheap + shifts that are due to the skills of others, not his own.....

[lynxrattle]

11 hours ago, EmptyShelf said:

Without the ridiculous ice-time, and cherry picked second assists, he would have miserable statistics.  He is -6, and would be about -20 without Spurgeon, and all the cheap + shifts that are due to the skills of others, not his own.....

The stats combined with the eye judgment tells the truth there, I feel. The -20 is the Spurgeon corrected number. With the assumption that he played with for example Brodin some of those goals against would not have happened. Playing with Brodin, Spurgeon would also have had more goals for, when not having to try hide the Tractor under a cover. Let's say:

 

a) 10 goals against less, when playing with a good D-man

b) 5 goals for, scored playing 5 vs 5

c) 5 goals for, after the Suterless PP scores just after the penalty is ended and the plus/minus gets counted again

 

The Suter corrected number for Spurgeon might have been 20 goals better, raising him from the official +/- 0 to a +20. The corrected numbers are +20 for Spurgeon vs -27 for Suter.

 

(I'm only half-jesting here with these numbers, a part of me thinks this might really have been the case if our organisation had accepted Suter's declining reality).

 

The corrected numbers are worse than those in the Winnipeg Jets where Copp is +20 and Laine -24. You can accept that sheltering Laine thing in the hope that he is still very young and might have it in him to turn into Ovechkin, but what is the hope behind sheltering Suter? It's just wool over our eyes, trying to justify the insane 13-year sentence to the fans.

[Math]

20 hours ago, EJ0226 said:

If Staal aged 15 years then Suter aged a good 30 years. I don't care what his stats say, he looked horrible. Out of position all the time. So slow that I am wondering if Vanek is twice as fast as Suter now. Bad turnovers. No fight for defending guys. Basically making his line mate, usually Spurgeon, have to cover two guys well Suter sits away from the play. I mean it's so bad. If any other player did that they would be cut.

 

For Suter, we have a solution option fix temporary fix: formol bath during the offseason !

 

And to make to short, if I have to summarize the Wild's reason for missing the playoffs in 3 aspects:

- Mental weakness

- Inconsistency

- Lack of leadership

[Hockey-78]

Nothing better than these good old lynch mob get-togethers, eh...

[Hockey-78]

But yeah, two seasons ago Suter +34, this season -6, his worst in 10 years. Anyone saying Suter is the best D-man in this roster must be enjoying smoking pot!

[EmptyShelf]

1 hour ago, Hockey-78 said:

Nothing better than these good old lynch mob get-togethers, eh...

I have my pitchfork, my hot tar, and a nasty case of FU's to throw at a few players...I'm in...and out as a Wild season ticket holder until 20 remains in WI for life (no retirement tour for him either, he stole money from fans)

[IllaZilla]

I could be wrong, but I seem to recall some quote about how cool it would be to come back from an injury and win a Cup...can't remember where I heard it though...

[Starofthenorth]

10 hours ago, IllaZilla said:

I could be wrong, but I seem to recall some quote about how cool it would be to come back from an injury and win a Cup...can't remember where I heard it though...

Suter may be thinking about a Stanley Cup, but unfortunately his level of effort doesn't even require a nut cup.

[lynxrattle]

22 hours ago, Hockey-78 said:

Nothing better than these good old lynch mob get-togethers, eh...

The good old public stoning ☄, the burning at the stake

 

It's the best, but still just a compensation that we won't be having a Winning the Cup get-together in the near future.

[EmptyShelf]

Humor me......So, I saw that we have 3% chance at getting the top pick in the next NHL draft (hughes would be expected, a Center).  I am a Finance guy, so I get that those odds are bleak.  However, what do you surmise Mgmt would do if we landed Hughes and signed Kaprisov (W) this offseason? (I know, won't happen, and why won't happen - just a strawman to make a point).  Yet, if it did, I would bet big $ that we would still see the Wild place 11 and 9 (when he is back) somewhere in Top 6 - and one of Donato, Greenway, Hughes, or Kaprisov would be back on line 3 versus two of the Country Club.  If so, I would just retire and sue the team for unmatched idiocy and malfeasance, no matter my role.  These people (the Leipolds and Fenton?) are this STUPID and that OBTUSE with their player management and the narrative of 'these are our All Stars.'  Chins Gorg would also be slobbering all over 11''s hustle and 9''s face-offs being valuable in showing the new Wild 'that this is OUR ice.'  Agreed?

[IllaZilla]

2 hours ago, EmptyShelf said:

Humor me......So, I saw that we have 3% chance at getting the top pick in the next NHL draft (hughes would be expected, a Center).  I am a Finance guy, so I get that those odds are bleak.  However, what do you surmise Mgmt would do if we landed Hughes and signed Kaprisov (W) this offseason? (I know, won't happen, and why won't happen - just a strawman to make a point).  Yet, if it did, I would bet big $ that we would still see the Wild place 11 and 9 (when he is back) somewhere in Top 6 - and one of Donato, Greenway, Hughes, or Kaprisov would be back on line 3 versus two of the Country Club.  If so, I would just retire and sue the team for unmatched idiocy and malfeasance, no matter my role.  These people (the Leipolds and Fenton?) are this STUPID and that OBTUSE with their player management and the narrative of 'these are our All Stars.'  Chins Gorg would also be slobbering all over 11''s hustle and 9''s face-offs being valuable in showing the new Wild 'that this is OUR ice.'  Agreed?

I’d be surprised if Fenton would draft Hughes. He’d pass on Hughes for some kid no one has ever heard of and then act like he’s the smartest guy in the room...

[lynxrattle]

Getting Kaprizov right now could be a disaster. He would come into a team divided against itself, the team by next season probably regressing back into the defensive foundations of yesteryear à la Koivu in his heyday, and being forced to change his offensive style of play into defensive "play it safe and lose all of that creativity". To make it even worse he comes to the perennial underdog Wild from the all-time top dog CSKA Moscow, a team that has a decades long background of being the dominant team in Europe. As a player he's not yet seen that in order to make it in the NHL, he's not good enough, but needs to change to make it in the NHL. Top that with the cultural and language difficulties and I'm betting on a catastrophe.

 

Team united and its identity clear - FAIL

Organisation committed in helping with the transition - FAIL

Another Russian, a player or a scout, helping with the transition - FAIL

Kaprizov's hoped for identity as an NHL player clearly established and clearly stated to him - FAIL

A team clearly committed to developing its youngsters instead of overusing vets - FAIL

An organisation that emphasizes its farm team and its prospects instead of other teams' leftovers - FAIL

An organisation that is loyal to all its players and prospects instead of just the vets - FAIL

An organisation that holds Kaprizov (and other "stars") accountable - FAIL

 

I'm sure you guys could find about a dozen more organisational risks in a jiffy.

 

On the other hand, somehow the Wild has managed in turning the turnover prone Dumba into a good enough defender without losing his offensive capabilities. The organisation has succeeded there, and the reason for that success would need to be sorted out. How on Earth didn't we fail with Dumba the way we fail with pretty much everything? If it was connected with Boudreau (he was a very succesful coach even prior to the NHL, that is coaching mostly prospects) the organisation should keep him.

 

Anyways, I think that this house of pain needs a lot of jumping around next season to sort this mess out. If this succeeds we could then bring Kaprizov in by 2021-2022. If this does not succeed, it would be better to trade him for future picks and keep on trying to rebuild this straw house. At least there is good fanbase and the arena filled game after game. The basis is solid.

[EmptyShelf]

On 4/6/2019 at 5:23 PM, IllaZilla said:

I’d be surprised if Fenton would draft Hughes. He’d pass on Hughes for some kid no one has ever heard of and then act like he’s the smartest guy in the room...

Such as; " At pick number, X, the MN Wild select D, Filip Johansson...."

 

A collective "Who!?!" ensues.....