Locker room problems

[lynxrattle]

I was shocked to read the start of Sarah McLellan's article on the Star Tribune (http://www.startribune.com/wild-s-thirty-something-veterans-rely-on-experience/564726832/):

 

"When Wild players empty into the lobby of a hotel, sometimes in the wee hours of the morning after arriving from the previous stop on a road trip, the group starts to separate itself by the elevators.

Veterans get on first while the younger players wait."

 

No wonder there's locker room problems that Russo, Souhan and Guerin have talked about! Here's what Rommel wrote about the effects of hierarchy of the Italian army of the fascist times (The Rommel Papers, page 262):

 

"Particularly harmful was the all-pervading differentiation between officer and man. While the men had to make shift without field-kitchens, the officers, or many of them, refused adamantly to forgo their several course meals. Many officers, again, set the men an example. All in all, therefore, it was small wonder that the Italian soldier, who incidentally was extraordinarily modest in his needs, developed a feeling of inferiority which accounted for his occasional failure in moments of crisis."

 

That elevator Country Club hierarchy makes it seem like the team has a culture similar to Mussolini's army, and a culture inferior to Wehrmacht, a Wehrmacht of 70 years ago that is, and from the nazi era!

 

If they want to make a ritual out of that waiting for the elevator thing, they should let the ones who played well in the last game go first.

[CreaseAndAssist]

I am not sure why this revelation surprises anyone.  Some of us had been hinting at the locker room and culture problems of this club for years.  It’s very evident in the way they play, how ice time is distributed, overtime groupings and their shift times that a definite pecking order is in place.  

 

#20, #11, #9 and until last week for a short window of time #40 do as they please.  They don’t care how poorly the team is doing, they will insist on their multi-course meal even though the team is starving.  If a younger player starts to thrive the vets shame them into submission and convince them to know their place and pass the puck to a vet instead of shooting it.  

 

It it is why I don’t think it matters who coaches this team or who the GM is as long as #20, #11, #9 are on this roster.  Remember when Jason Zucker used to fly down the ice and create havoc with his speed?  Then he would end up in Yeo’s doghouse?   Maybe it was more of the vets who couldn’t keep up with him and it annoyed them.  He was taking ‘their’ shots.  Ever notice Suter manning the point on the power play and moving the puck slowly from the half wall to the point and then taking some weak wrist shot?   

 

He was making sure he got his shots.  That way he can say, hey I had my 3-4 shots on goal and if it leads to a goal on some secondary assist then so be it.  But Suter won’t be coming off that power play for at least 1:30 of that power play.  Suter doesn’t care if the Wild score unless his name is on the scoresheet.   Reporters almost never criticize him.  

 

They know they will be in trouble if they do.  Ever since #20 and #11 arrived it’s been an expensive country club.  If Guerin asked around the league about the Wild at all before he took the job he would know this.  It’s a fairly well known fact in league circles and anyone who wanted to speculate about free agents coming here.  Trust me, they know runs the room on this team.  I know if I heard about a pecking order culture like this there is no way I would sign here.  

[CreaseAndAssist]

If anyone read Russo's article yesterday with Bill Guerin.  Guerin was very surprised to see how close-knit of a group this team has.  He said he had heard that wasn't the case before he got here...I wonder if he only really talks to #20, #11 and #9.  

 

Guerin to #20, #11, #9:  Hey guys...are you guys close? 

 

Suter:  Of course we are Bill! 

 

Guerin (smiling):  Ok ok...just asking...sorry.  

[IllaZilla]

21 minutes ago, CreaseAndAssist said:

If anyone read Russo's article yesterday with Bill Guerin.  Guerin was very surprised to see how close-knit of a group this team has.  He said he had heard that wasn't the case before he got here...I wonder if he only really talks to #20, #11 and #9.  

 

Guerin to #20, #11, #9:  Hey guys...are you guys close? 

 

Suter:  Of course we are Bill! 

 

Guerin (smiling):  Ok ok...just asking...sorry.  

 

Yeah, I read that article too. I found it interesting that it was known around the league that the Wild didn't have a cohesive locker room, yet Guerin said he was surprised at how close knit it was.

 

I don't know. Call me a conspiracy theorist, but those rumors of a divided locker room came from somewhere. Russo's hinted at it for years, but he won't come out and say who is/was causing it. I'm guessing it's because whomever is causing it is still on the team, and he doesn't want to lose access...

[Hockey-78]

So who's the Deep Throat - a player or a member of the staff?

[Hockey-78]

1 hour ago, IllaZilla said:

 

Yeah, I read that article too. I found it interesting that it was known around the league that the Wild didn't have a cohesive locker room, yet Guerin said he was surprised at how close knit it was.

 

I don't know. Call me a conspiracy theorist, but those rumors of a divided locker room came from somewhere. Russo's hinted at it for years, but he won't come out and say who is/was causing it. I'm guessing it's because whomever is causing it is still on the team, and he doesn't want to lose access...

So Bill's decided his side - he chooses to be one of Them?

[Icechipper]

Bill Guerin says all is hunky dorry.  Picture Ek throwing tape balls at Suter, Greenway locker-boxing with Parise, Fiala blasting Katy Perry on the boom box, Donato filling Koivu's shoes with shaving cream and Kunin throwing cold water on Zucker while he showers...crazy kids...all this camaraderie must be a laugh riot!

[lynxrattle]

Guerin's comments are very worrying. CreaseAndAssist might well be right in stating that it won't matter who the GM is, as long as the old guard is there defending their privileges.

[Bear]

This is pure insanity nothing changes and the way things are it never will

[EmptyShelf]

3 hours ago, lynxrattle said:

Guerin's comments are very worrying. CreaseAndAssist might well be right in stating that it won't matter who the GM is, as long as the old guard is there defending their privileges.

It has NEVER mattered who was GM or Head Coach.  This situation began when they desperately made Koivu the focus of the team and provided his C (since he was a high draft pick, and they had no other supposedly 'marketable player').  Then, upon signing Parise and Suter, there must have been a discussion to align Koivu with this PLAN and direct connectivity with CL to create the Country Club (favorites of CL).  GMs and Coaches know there is a 'hands off' understanding in terms of Country Club with the ultimate boss; CL.  All the GM and Coaches can manage is the rest of the team's players.  It explains a lot.  I think 9, 11, and 20 do not bother going to the GM or Coaches - they go directly to CL, and everyone in management and on the team knows it.  I think Dubnyk has wiggled into the Club, and perhaps Spurgeon.  There seems to be another layer where Brodin and Staal probably reside, and then there is the lowest level - the newbies and fodder for TOI.  All in all, just a toxic culture and a disaster for team unity and team play, as well as recruiting new players to this mess.  

 

I had heard that the culture and environment in the 'front office' under Fenton was also a back-biting and toxic culture.  

 

In both cases, CL has created a very filthy environment for team/leadership/success......and it ain't going to change with a few draft choices.  They need to neuter 11 and 20 (and get rid of one or both if they can), and let 9 retire.

[ClusterChuck]

I'd rather be a fly on the wall and listen to an actual conversation with Guerin and Modano or anyone in the organization than listen to what he says to the media.

 

[lynxrattle]

The nasty problem with organisational culture is that it tends to keep the same even if people change. 11, 9, 20 might leave only for us to see them replaced by players who inherit their places in the Country Club.

[EJ0226]

On ‎11‎/‎12‎/‎2019 at 6:34 AM, CreaseAndAssist said:

I am not sure why this revelation surprises anyone.  Some of us had been hinting at the locker room and culture problems of this club for years.  It’s very evident in the way they play, how ice time is distributed, overtime groupings and their shift times that a definite pecking order is in place.  

 

#20, #11, #9 and until last week for a short window of time #40 do as they please.  They don’t care how poorly the team is doing, they will insist on their multi-course meal even though the team is starving.  If a younger player starts to thrive the vets shame them into submission and convince them to know their place and pass the puck to a vet instead of shooting it.  

 

It it is why I don’t think it matters who coaches this team or who the GM is as long as #20, #11, #9 are on this roster.  Remember when Jason Zucker used to fly down the ice and create havoc with his speed?  Then he would end up in Yeo’s doghouse?   Maybe it was more of the vets who couldn’t keep up with him and it annoyed them.  He was taking ‘their’ shots.  Ever notice Suter manning the point on the power play and moving the puck slowly from the half wall to the point and then taking some weak wrist shot?   

 

He was making sure he got his shots.  That way he can say, hey I had my 3-4 shots on goal and if it leads to a goal on some secondary assist then so be it.  But Suter won’t be coming off that power play for at least 1:30 of that power play.  Suter doesn’t care if the Wild score unless his name is on the scoresheet.   Reporters almost never criticize him.  

 

They know they will be in trouble if they do.  Ever since #20 and #11 arrived it’s been an expensive country club.  If Guerin asked around the league about the Wild at all before he took the job he would know this.  It’s a fairly well known fact in league circles and anyone who wanted to speculate about free agents coming here.  Trust me, they know runs the room on this team.  I know if I heard about a pecking order culture like this there is no way I would sign here.  

Been saying it for years, the mighty Scotty Bowman wouldn't have a chance with this squad. I had suspected for awhile that their were always overrated and what we are seeing now is really what they are.

[Mad Dog]

I have Dubnyk on my fantasy team and he is killing me.  I still think he is a good goalie (his resume supports this claim, I think), who just happened to be on a bad team.  What do you Wild fans think?  Should I keep holding on to him?  Or it's pretty hopeless at this point?  

[CreaseAndAssist]

On 11/12/2019 at 8:00 AM, IllaZilla said:

 

Yeah, I read that article too. I found it interesting that it was known around the league that the Wild didn't have a cohesive locker room, yet Guerin said he was surprised at how close knit it was.

 

I don't know. Call me a conspiracy theorist, but those rumors of a divided locker room came from somewhere. Russo's hinted at it for years, but he won't come out and say who is/was causing it. I'm guessing it's because whomever is causing it is still on the team, and he doesn't want to lose access...

 

Well...I won't say who told me.  But its not just a rumor.  Its very real.  

[CreaseAndAssist]

19 minutes ago, Mad Dog said:

I have Dubnyk on my fantasy team and he is killing me.  I still think he is a good goalie (his resume supports this claim, I think), who just happened to be on a bad team.  What do you Wild fans think?  Should I keep holding on to him?  Or it's pretty hopeless at this point?  

 

The Wild are a garbage team right now.  Dubnyk is a part of that garbage.  I have him on one of my teams too.  He's doing poorly.  I'll ask a simple question and you can take action as you see fit.  Are there other (starters) goalies available in your respective league that would be better?  If so...go with them.  If not...hold on and hope he can be a part of some kind of turn around.  I hope your other goalie is far better than he is.  

[CreaseAndAssist]

On 11/12/2019 at 9:56 AM, Hockey-78 said:

So who's the Deep Throat - a player or a member of the staff?

 

You can disbelieve this if you please.  But I have a source.  And the dysfunction stuff is real.  

[Hockey-78]

6 minutes ago, CreaseAndAssist said:

 

You can disbelieve this if you please.  But I have a source.  And the dysfunction stuff is real.  

I don't for a moment doubt the dysfunction stuff wouldn't be real. I'm just intrigued if it's someone on the roster trying to shake the boat or some of the staff's 'vets'.

[CreaseAndAssist]

Just now, Hockey-78 said:

I don't for a moment doubt the dysfunction stuff wouldn't be real. I'm just intrigued if it's someone on the roster trying to shake the boat or some of the staff's 'vets'.

 

Do you wonder if Guerin was being sarcastic when he talked about the close-knit nature of the locker room?  Because I'd be surprised if Russo even bought that.  

[EJ0226]

9 minutes ago, CreaseAndAssist said:

 

Do you wonder if Guerin was being sarcastic when he talked about the close-knit nature of the locker room?  Because I'd be surprised if Russo even bought that.  

My guess is Guerin knows if he blows his chance he might not get another so is just being the company Yes Man and painting a pretty picture where ever he is told. I doubt Guerin is stupid enough to believe what he said.

@CreaseAndAssist you know I have forward believed in the toxic locker room. I really hope to hear someday who your source is as I am more curious and don't doubt you one bit.

[Hockey-78]

14 minutes ago, CreaseAndAssist said:

 

Do you wonder if Guerin was being sarcastic when he talked about the close-knit nature of the locker room?  Because I'd be surprised if Russo even bought that.  

Don't know the man but if he's (Guerin) clever he compliments the majority of the things he sees in the organization and only carefully makes a point of the things he sees need to be addressed. After all, he's been in the office only for a couple of months and his predecessor is a fine example to him what to do - not. I bet Guerin would smokescreen as much as he can.

 

For years I've been skeptical about Russo's integrity. Did it improve only because he left the Star Tribune?

Edited November 13, 2019 by Hockey-78

[Mad Dog]

20 minutes ago, CreaseAndAssist said:

Are there other (starters) goalies available in your respective league that would be better?  If so...go with them.  If not...hold on and hope he can be a part of some kind of turn around.  I hope your other goalie is far better than he is.  

 

And that's part of a problem.  All good goalies are snatched at this point in the season, of course.  There are slim pickings. What concerns me is not even his personal stats; they are crap obviously.  What worries me even more is that he will lose his starts to Alex Stalock.  I can see a 50/50 split at best and Stalock actually taking over as a starting goalie at worst. In our league if you don't have 3 goalie starts total, you forfeit all goalie scoring categories.   And in that case, I might just pick up someone like Jonathan Quick, whose stats are crappy, but at least he is starting enough.  

 

[CreaseAndAssist]

2 minutes ago, EJ0226 said:

My guess is Guerin knows if he blows his chance he might not get another so is just being the company Yes Man and painting a pretty picture where ever he is told. I doubt Guerin is stupid enough to believe what he said.

@CreaseAndAssist you know I have forward believed in the toxic locker room. I really hope to hear someday who your source is as I am more curious and don't doubt you one bit.

 

As to the former...no idea about that just yet.  We haven't seen any moves yet.  IMO, the actions speak more to me than what he actually says.  So far, he's saying what just about any GM not named Brian Burke would say.  

 

As to the source.  I was told what I was because I wouldn't reveal anything more and so I must honor that.  Sorry.  Not that you're demanding that I say so or not.  

[Hockey-78]

48 minutes ago, Mad Dog said:

I have Dubnyk on my fantasy team and he is killing me.  I still think he is a good goalie (his resume supports this claim, I think), who just happened to be on a bad team.  What do you Wild fans think?  Should I keep holding on to him?  Or it's pretty hopeless at this point?  

Throw him under the bus that has 10 elephants. IMO he's not a consistent goalie but a goalie who's benefited from the good defensive structure in front of him. Now that the team is a disaster, so is he. Who do you have in mind to replace him with?

[CreaseAndAssist]

2 minutes ago, Hockey-78 said:

Don't know the man but if he's (Guerin) clever he compliments the majority of the things he sees in the organization and only carefully makes a point of the things he sees need to be addressed. After all, he's been in the office only for a couple of months and his predecessor is a fine example to him what to do - not. I bet Guerin would smokescreen as much as he can.

 

For years I've been skeptical about Russo's integrity. Did it improve only because he left the Star Tribune?

 

I don't really question Russo's integrity per se.  But did you ever hear him talk about how he tried to talk to Fenton about being a conduit to the fans.  I thought that was crossing some journalistic lines by even offering that.  IMO, you have to stay separate.  And Fenton made it easy for him to separate and find other people for information; much to Fenton's annoyance.  Perhaps its just trying to cultivate a relationship than asking to be some kind of propaganda mouthpiece is how I mostly read it now.