The Elephant In The Room + Coaching Issues

[SoCalFlyfan]

Everyone here knows who the #1 goalie should be. Case closed.

Still, according to Lavi, Snider, and Homer Bryz is the main guy. We all know Lavi HAS to say this, because if he says otherwise it makes Snider and Homer look like fools. But as a coach he's in a catch -22. If he plays Bryz the majority of the time he will lose his job because we'll suck...and in Philly when teams suck the coach takes the fall. If he says BOB is his starter he'll lose his job for not following orders and making mgmt look like idiots for signing Bryz (which they are).

In the end Lavi is dancing the line playing BOB enough to keep the team winning and playing Bryz enough to make Snider happy. However, there's a big elephant in the room and someone from mgmt needs to step in and say that BOB is the better goalie right now and that the coach needs to play the better goalie.

Other issues: I believe this 'run and gun' offensive system Lavi has them playing was devised with the hopes that Bryz would bail them out the majority of the time. But now we know that's not the case, yet Lavi still has them playing like this. I don't know about you but I'm just not comfortable having to put up 4+ goals a night to stay in games. I watched the replay of the Rangers/Winnipeg game and Tortorella has the Rangers playing the complete opposite style. They have the skill up front, but choose to play from the back end out in an almost 1-1-3 formation while we play a 3-1-1. Add Lundkvist to that system and they are almost unbeatable in a 7 game series at this point. So my question is, are we playing the right system with the personnel we have ? I'm not so sure.

Edited January 25, 2012 by SoCalFlyfan

[Spinorama]

If he says BOB is his starter he'll lose his job for not following orders and making mgmt look like idiots for signing Bryz (which they are).

I think Bryz is doing a pretty good job making management look like idiots on his own, I doubt Lavi has much to worry about in that department at this point.

He had the stones to play Bob in the WC... shouldn't be a problem at any point for the rest of the season if that's what he wants to do.

I still think they all really believe there's something else going on with Bryz and continued playing time and displays of confidence will eventually get him going in the right direction. If they are paying him what they are, chances are they really think he's that good.

[TedZep]

The Flyers are only a few points out of first. With all the injuries, new guys, malfunctioning goalie, etc., that's not too bad at all, better than a lot of people expected most likely.

If Bryzgalov starts playing like the goalie he is paid to be, OR Lavvy is given the green light to ride Bobrovsky, then the Flyers are in good shape for a playoff run. Probably not Cup bound, but the kids will get good experience, and hey, you never know.

[aziz]

In the end Lavi is dancing the line playing BOB enough to keep the team winning and playing Bryz enough to make Snider happy. However, there's a big elephant in the room and someone from mgmt needs to step in and say that BOB is the better goalie right now and that the coach needs to play the better goalie.

i'm hoping that lavy's plan is to highlight exactly that, and to get the nod from upstairs come playoff time to go with bob. as you say, play bob enough that they pick up the points (and showcase his ability), while playing bryzgalov enough to at least give lip service to mgmt (and to quietly say, "really? you want this when it really counts?").

if things keep going as they currently are, i'm hopeful the right person is in net come april.

Other issues: I believe this 'run and gun' offensive system Lavi has them playing was devised with the hopes that Bryz would bail them out the majority of the time. But now we know that's not the case, yet Lavi still has them playing like this.

i don't know. that's kind of laviolette's system regardless of who is in net.

i don't disagree that the other side of that knife is cutting the flyers rather too often, but...i'm concerned about the team's offense if they start having to rely on a standard breakout/constructed attack. so many of their goals come off the rush, and those rushes are only possible because of the overly-agressive defensize zone play and the forwards leaving the zone as soon as the D look to have possession. take those away, and....i just don't know there's the established firepower to cope without speed and forcing turnovers.

[Podein25]

1-1-3 formation while we play a 3-1-1

I have no problem with trying to win the game by dominating the neutral zone. When we do, we are the best team in hockey. Does it have risks, sure, but those come from execution failures and failure of everyone to be on the same page. That is what Lavi should be judged by, not Xs and Os on a board.

are we playing the right system

Oh man, if I knew we were gonna be talking systems again, I'd have brought some ludes and a pillow.

[mojo1917]

@SoCalFlyerFan

this (i hope) should be an interesting thread,

i think we are playing a good system for the personell we have from the defensemen forward, We have got some guys on this team with some serious no bullsh!t speed, and Laviolette has been an attack first , dictate the pace of play guy as long as i can remember. i think there is only one person whom Laviolette's system doesn't suit and that's #30. I think #35 has the focus and talent to excell no matter the system in front of him, but his athleticsm makes him better suited for dealing with the occasional odd man rush that happens when kids aren't paying attention to detail in front of him.

[HockeyFan]

and in Philly when teams suck the coach takes the fall.

Except the last off season, when Holmgren pulled off what I believe is, if not unprecedented; than quite rare in "firing the team." While this does advance Lavi to the top of the line in the order of responsibility; it does also hope that, most nights the team doesn't suck...

Also, interesting with the number of rookies we have, that have never known another NHL coach. Will be interesting to see how they develop beyond this season, with us; or elsewhere. Perhaps not a coincidence the rookies are playing excellent... Lavi hates veteran players^TM?

[SoCalFlyfan]

@SoCalFlyerFan

this (i hope) should be an interesting thread,

i think there is only one person whom Laviolette's system doesn't suit and that's #30. I think #35 has the focus and talent to excell no matter the system in front of him, but his athleticsm makes him better suited for dealing with the occasional odd man rush that happens when kids aren't paying attention to detail in front of him.

You pretty much nailed it right there. Still, I'm not comfortable winning games like we did in Long Island where we squeak by after being badly outplayed, or last night on a few of those ridiculous turnovers and BOB bailing us out. Maybe it's working but I'd prefer to have a goals against like the Rangers do at the expense of a little offense.

[SoCalFlyfan]

i'm hoping that lavy's plan is to highlight exactly that, and to get the nod from upstairs come playoff time to go with bob. as you say, play bob enough that they pick up the points (and showcase his ability), while playing bryzgalov enough to at least give lip service to mgmt (and to quietly say, "really? you want this when it really counts?").

if things keep going as they currently are, i'm hopeful the right person is in net come april.

i don't know. that's kind of laviolette's system regardless of who is in net.

i don't disagree that the other side of that knife is cutting the flyers rather too often, but...i'm concerned about the team's offense if they start having to rely on a standard breakout/constructed attack. so many of their goals come off the rush, and those rushes are only possible because of the overly-agressive defensize zone play and the forwards leaving the zone as soon as the D look to have possession. take those away, and....i just don't know there's the established firepower to cope without speed and forcing turnovers.

I just think having speed like we do is better suited to playing strong in the neutral zone and capitalizing on the transition as opposed to dump and chase with Matt Read and Couturier getting worked over in the corners like we do. Maybe we're not on the same page, but to me we're playing more dump and chase without the size to back it up. As a result, we have too many guys engaged in to offensive zone to help out which leads to the 15 or so odd man rushes we seem to give up every game with only one guy back.

[SoCalFlyfan]

Oh man, if I knew we were gonna be talking systems again, I'd have brought some ludes and a pillow.

-Hitchcock can devise a pretty darn good system .... I miss those days.

[delcofan]

The Flyers are only a few points out of first. With all the injuries, new guys, malfunctioning goalie, etc., that's not too bad at all, better than a lot of people expected most likely.

Not only is it better, all the uproar over the summer was concerning where the source of the offense would be. Seemed like consensus was improved defense and struggling offense. The offense is one of the tops in the league and the d/goalkeeping is average at best.

[Podein25]

-Hitchcock can devise a pretty darn good system .... I miss those days.

He seems to be doing some things right in St. Louis, so fair enough.

However, I'm constantly reminded of Babcock's comment to Hitch, Ruff and Lemaire, during the selection process for the last Cdn Olympic team. They were all circle jerking around a white board with various Xs and Os and he said the equivalent of: "pfft, just get the puck and keep it."

I have been a subscriber to that view since I was 5 and see no reason to doubt it now.

[orange_crush]

Everyone here knows who the #1 goalie should be. Case closed.

Still, according to Lavi, Snider, and Homer Bryz is the main guy. We all know Lavi HAS to say this, because if he says otherwise it makes Snider and Homer look like fools. But as a coach he's in a catch -22. If he plays Bryz the majority of the time he will lose his job because we'll suck...and in Philly when teams suck the coach takes the fall. If he says BOB is his starter he'll lose his job for not following orders and making mgmt look like idiots for signing Bryz (which they are).

In the end Lavi is dancing the line playing BOB enough to keep the team winning and playing Bryz enough to make Snider happy. However, there's a big elephant in the room and someone from mgmt needs to step in and say that BOB is the better goalie right now and that the coach needs to play the better goalie.

Other issues: I believe this 'run and gun' offensive system Lavi has them playing was devised with the hopes that Bryz would bail them out the majority of the time. But now we know that's not the case, yet Lavi still has them playing like this. I don't know about you but I'm just not comfortable having to put up 4+ goals a night to stay in games. I watched the replay of the Rangers/Winnipeg game and Tortorella has the Rangers playing the complete opposite style. They have the skill up front, but choose to play from the back end out in an almost 1-1-3 formation while we play a 3-1-1. Add Lundkvist to that system and they are almost unbeatable in a 7 game series at this point. So my question is, are we playing the right system with the personnel we have ? I'm not so sure.

imo there really is no clear #1 goalie..neither goalie has really taking the reigns and stood on there head.. with that said I think our defense is still not acceptable making the goalie look worse than what they are

[SoCalFlyfan]

@orange_crush

I'm not sure if our defensemen are the problem as much as the whole 'wide open' system we play is. Lavi's system (or lack of it) is what makes our defensemen's job harder trying to get back into position after pinching. You could swap our personnel on defense with say the Rangers defense or St. Louis and we'd still be giving up tons of goals. It's just the way Lavi wants this team to play.

[Howie58]

Everyone here knows who the #1 goalie should be. Case closed.

Still, according to Lavi, Snider, and Homer Bryz is the main guy. We all know Lavi HAS to say this, because if he says otherwise it makes Snider and Homer look like fools. But as a coach he's in a catch -22. If he plays Bryz the majority of the time he will lose his job because we'll suck...and in Philly when teams suck the coach takes the fall. If he says BOB is his starter he'll lose his job for not following orders and making mgmt look like idiots for signing Bryz (which they are).

In the end Lavi is dancing the line playing BOB enough to keep the team winning and playing Bryz enough to make Snider happy. However, there's a big elephant in the room and someone from mgmt needs to step in and say that BOB is the better goalie right now and that the coach needs to play the better goalie.

Other issues: I believe this 'run and gun' offensive system Lavi has them playing was devised with the hopes that Bryz would bail them out the majority of the time. But now we know that's not the case, yet Lavi still has them playing like this. I don't know about you but I'm just not comfortable having to put up 4+ goals a night to stay in games. I watched the replay of the Rangers/Winnipeg game and Tortorella has the Rangers playing the complete opposite style. They have the skill up front, but choose to play from the back end out in an almost 1-1-3 formation while we play a 3-1-1. Add Lundkvist to that system and they are almost unbeatable in a 7 game series at this point. So my question is, are we playing the right system with the personnel we have ? I'm not so sure.

SoCal:

I think you raise a valid question. But I guess the answer comes in a year. If the guy turns it around the second half, we are OK. If we are having the same discussion next year, then we are in trouble in terms of cap.

I will "respectfully disagree" with Bryz's gorilla status. I think Pronger is the bigger issue and Carchidi's article yesterday showing the nearly one goal difference when he is in the line-up speaks volumes. I am, like you a bit frustrated with the run and gun and don't see it winning a Cup. But beefing up the D will help.

From a long-term planning standpoint, Pronger's situation is a mess. If he retires or goes to LTIC, it is not so bad. But if we get an "on-again, off-again" return next year...yikes. I don't know how Homer plans in terms of cap and personnel with that prospect.

And on that score...when I hear talk of Suter, I have to wonder if what we are really asking is what the team will do: replace Pronger or go stop-gap on the assumption he comes back. I see a Suter trade as Homer's statement that Pronger's career is finished.

Peace and I am glad to see you in these parts.

Howie

[orange_crush]

@orange_crush

I'm not sure if our defensemen are the problem as much as the whole 'wide open' system we play is. Lavi's system (or lack of it) is what makes our defensemen's job harder trying to get back into position after pinching. You could swap our personnel on defense with say the Rangers defense or St. Louis and we'd still be giving up tons of goals. It's just the way Lavi wants this team to play.

Lavy's system has been a proven winner..our dmen are too soft and slow most times

[mojo1917]

@orange_crush

looking at the canes roster from the cup winning team, i don't know i really see any standouts beyond wesley, commodore and hedican... and i never think of those guys when i think rugged and mobile... i mean wesley's been a good to great player pretty much his whole career, but the rest of those guys wouldn't get picked out of a line up for fast or tough

[Podein25]

Lavy's system has been a proven winner..our dmen are too soft and slow most times

Timonen, Coburn. Carle, Gus: none are slow. In fact, most would be considered very mobile.

Softness, guh.

[orange_crush]

Timonen, Coburn. Carle, Gus: none are slow. In fact, most would be considered very mobile.

Softness, guh.

you honestly believe Carle and Gus are good defensive defenceman? Maybe the problem is these guys are always caught pinching and trying to score goals all the time instead of protecting the blueline

[Podein25]

you honestly believe Carle and Gus are good defensive defenceman? Maybe the problem is these guys are always caught pinching and trying to score goals all the time instead of protecting the blueline

nu·ance

noun

\ˈnü-ˌän(t)s, ˈnyü-, -ˌäⁿs; nü-ˈ, nyü-ˈ\

1: a subtle distinction or variation

2: a subtle quality : nicety

3: sensibility to, awareness of, or ability to express delicate shadings (as of meaning, feeling, or value)

Edited January 31, 2012 by Podein25

[canoli]

what was wrong with the old uance? we don't need no stinking new aunce.

[orange_crush]

nu·ance

noun

\ˈnü-ˌän(t)s, ˈnyü-, -ˌäⁿs; nü-ˈ, nyü-ˈ\

1: a subtle distinction or variation

2: a subtle quality : nicety

3: sensibility to, awareness of, or ability to express delicate shadings (as of meaning, feeling, or value)

so you agree then?

[Podein25]

@orange_crush

I agree that you, sir, are neither subtle, nor nice, nor delicate in any respect, and that's why I like you so much.

Edited January 31, 2012 by Podein25

[delcofan]

@orange_crush

I agree that you, sir, are neither subtle, nor nice, nor delicate in any respect, and that's why I like you so much.

This is starting to get a little gay... not that there's anything wrong with that.

[Podein25]

@delcofan go f**k yourself - jk