LegionOfDoom

Back when Homer was GM, the year before the Flyers acquired Vinny, they made the statement that they didn't have enough scoring, with the absence of Jagr, Carter, etc. where were they going to get scoring as there goals for were nothing to sing about. Homer was also of the school that a forward should be able to play any position, hence we picked up Vinny. For supposed goals and his "ability" to play any position(because Homer said so). And Lavy of coarse. "That's" why we have Vinny, That is the "reason" according to GM/Coach/owner in that order. Though I have a strong suspicion Mr. Snider was eyebrowing this transaction from his desk. After the dust settled a season later, we now look at this transaction with disdain and collusion to all Flyer fans. Homer thought this would help the team with having another puck possession goal scorer slash leader on the team. Jagr and Briere were gone. I'm not saying I agree with this trade, but that was his framed logic behind it. His motto was contracts and cap limits were bridges that were dealt with when crossing, thus Vinny's contract figures. I'm curious to see Bellemare as he seems to be another Umby "versatile type" player. Him, Vinny and Raffl would be an interesting experimental line or take Raffle off and put Umby there as there 4th line, summer camp tryout. Schenn needs a full season as a center with decent complimentary vet wingers to help him grow, not young inexperienced wingers on the same boat "trying to figure it out" as well linemates. I think maybe a Bellemare/ Umby line combo might help him as well.

Great info guys and thanks also for the STH info, your stomachs must of been humming with glee. What happily caught me offgaurd was the point about going further into the prospects development and going deeper into the training regimen as to case specific drills to strengthen their weekness. I hope Berube pushes this into the players as well.

It would be nice if Pronger could join the defensive coaching staff to train these kids as well. I think a coach that pairs himself with his defensive partner rookie or shadows him on the ice would give these youth hindsight and improved hockey IQ on what to do given each situation on ice. They do it in rally racing, where the helicopter tells the driver what's up ahead. Just another outside of the box approach to development.

I liked Tye and when he played on the first line apparently Claude and Jake liked his game and said he gives them space and opens up more time to make plays. You can hopefully look it up on game time interviews when he was called up to play, when I think Hartnell went down with an injury. I believe when the whole team was struggling to score goals in the first 3 games, he was leading the team with goals scored in the first 3 or 5 games of the season. I think in the first two games he had 3 goals and led the team in goals and then the next day was sent back down, was pretty strange how that relationship was. A lot of posters though probably saw his game more than I, I just happen to catch his games where he was making a difference out there on the ice. I think he resembles a Shark swimming around then....Boom, splash, splash he does his damage on the opponent. Now when I watch a Sharks game I'll monitor his game here and there. He's got the gps tagged to his fin now, so I'll be tracking when I can.

I posted this elsewhere, but thought this would add to this properly labeled topic. The Emery signing is more about going with what is being known as the "Jagr" effect, He has made Mason a better player through his encouragement and teamwork mentality. I don't agree with getting another goalie and changing the dynamics just yet. Consistency is so important in the youths development, whether it's forwards or defensemen. Changing key positions/players every year is not good for the development of our youth. Imagine having a different dad every year growing up. Of course this is an exageration, but our young players need to have good examples and consistency in their development, signing Emery is a small step in this direction, he is a good example and a consistant positive example to our goalie and players and has the right attitude. Getting the shiniest toy doesn't always mean the funnest toy. (Enter VLC, great piece and a good pickup, but not the piece we needed. He will do a nice job elsewhere.) We needed this signing, it was the smart choice, the right call for THIS year. What Mase learns from Emery, he will teach to our up and comer goalie in the wings, having a father/big brother growing up can set you straight. I will thank Briere for what he did and his role with Claude and Coot. And to a one year degree with Jagr as well. Without this in your system.....Viva le miserables.

murraycraven.....Here's Pauly!!! Nice one. Hexy's Draft children are the ones who'll go through the Window and free him of being locked in the bathroom with these contracts. The Emery signing is more about going with what is being known as the "Jagr" effect, He has made Mason a better player through his encouragement and teamwork mentality. I don't agree with getting another goalie and changing the dynamics just yet. Consistency is so important in the youths development, whether it's forwards or defensemen. Changing key positions/players every year is not good for the development of our youth. Imagine having a different dad every year growing up. Of course this is an exageration, but our young players need to have good examples and consistency in their development, signing Emery is a small step in this direction, he is a good example and a consistant positive example to our goalie and players and has the right attitude. Schenns', Cooter need this too. But in the end this is all for entertainment purposes only, may the best show win!

Reported.

Ya missing the playoffs would of really sucked alot, and being swept would of been like going to a party and sitting in the corner all night wishing for it to end... Alot of valid points. We gave away our playoff strengths and veteranship for youth. (we lost clutch playoff players: Danny, Gagne, Jagr, etc.) We had too much youth(2nd year rookies) last year and didn't make the playoffs(though I think had it been 82 games, it might of been a different story). We needed vet players: forwards and defensemen. We accomplished that this year, though they weren't probabely the right positional veterans to have. A Vinny type player that played wing would of better served us better ala' Jagr than Vinny, though on paper Vinny was a good catch, just not the catch we needed. We need a balance of youth and veterans, to complement their positions, not competeing for the same position that's all.

Oh and another thing....we didn't get swept in 4.... Am I happy: No. I'm use to the Flyers making it to the ECF or Finals, that's my mindset.

Congrats posters, the team made it to the playoffs. The thing is if we had not made it to the playoffs. What's the difference from a first round exit and not making it in. Look at the other teams that didn't make it to the playoffs; how critical should their fans be: on the coaching staff, the players or their culture? We started out a mess, and finished the season making it to the playoffs. Some posters didn't think they would make it that far. From our Hockey state of things, we need to look at the positives, look at our numbers/contracts, forcast our yearly cap and further improve our team. I am hoping some of our minor league defensive players make it to our roster next season.

My Fair Lady....you looked good from afar, but when I needed you, you were nowhere to be found.... Fair Well.... How much is inexperience and how much is desire. You can teach inexperience, but you can't teach desire; few on this team show this. Who's on the hotseat now....I call shotgun.

Congrats Andy on your sons first Flyers game. Hope he had a fun time, The Ducks organization was always about having a family fun night out experience, I don't know if that was a Disney element when it started, but in going to other sports markets arenas, you can definitely see a difference here and there.

This sounds so daunting.... They should still sign Gagne, pair him with Claude and Jake and put Hartnell on the missing wing, Hartnell fills the grinder mold and can score as well.

* we talkin' 'bout practice... ...nice

Yes, how he was given that number, I don't know. Grasping at straws....grasping at straws... ------------------------ fin --------------------------

I know this is a little out there, but could he be signed on a two way contract.This way if the Flyers want to go with youth at first they can experiment with there rookies and if they still need more seasoning, Gagne can be a call up. Since he's under 35, the new rules shouldn't circumvent this from happening. Anybody care to venture further on this?

Point blank, there have been articles about how Flyers are waiting for LTIR to open up cap room to fit Gagne in. According to inside sources by reporters, the Flyers were worried about the cap dropping down and how much funds they had available to resign players and to free up cap with optional amnesty buyouts, and if to exercise it on and who to buy out, using both buyouts or one only for this year. Granted the Flyers organization had a lot of questionmarks going into the season, and they weren't sure whether to trade there youngsters for needs that were apparent...goalie situation, defensemen and what's available. Under those conditions the Flyers where happy with Gagne's performance, even putting his goal on best of Flyers moments highlights of the year. Though there were questionmarks, Gagne let it be known that he would take a substantial discount to stay with the Flyers and that his family was happy to move back into the city and resituate themselves in the community they had fond memories of, and Gagne even stated that he was happy with his career and wanted to finish his career in Philly. He publically stated this and management knew this. Now if it was Hall or Rosehill who stated this, it would be looked at by management as we just got you guys we don't view things this way, What they told the media was that it's tricky to get Gagne in but when the LTIR goes through, they shoudl have enough free cap to get him in, even knowing he was willing to not get paid what he's worth, to help the team with cap space. Understanding business is business, you can look at this as hey we aren't legally liable to you, and there is no grounds for law suits, breach of contracts. But the culture is affected when you make bad business decisions, and THIS IS NOT A GOOD business decision. You lessen the fanbase by letting things pass by and not be accountable for something you could of cleared up earliers. example: Your at the store and you see a spill on the floor and stop and look at it and look around the store to see what might of caused it, you stay at the scene for sometime and something else catches your attention, you see a family passing by and know there is a possible chance of injury but also know that possibly it will be ok. It's not your job to clean up the mess and your not getting paid to clean it up and you just picked up some boxes at another isle that fell down. Your choice what you do. and your not legally responsible. Flyes new Gagne's stand with the orgainzation before the season was over, they verbally told him they wanted him back and hinted that way as well, the timeline is enough for them to have given him a heads up to not put his hopes on being a Flyer next year and at no time was that done. That is where your a businASSmen or a busiNICEman. Gagne had tenure, and you treat yours and yours with dignity, according to the "Flyers Way" Bad public relations is bad business, just go ask Sprint and how much it "cost them" to clean up there image...still cleaning. Homer swallow your business pride and get Gagne in for at least one more year. Allowing the youngsters a chance is fine, but signing Vinny and getting Streit doesn't do it. It says the organization doesn't want to build from the ground up. It's like Mc Donalds having an epiphany and say "we need to change our culture, we don't want to look like a deathshop out to make a killing, we want to sell only healthy foods, not mechanically or biologically altered." The Flyers culture is to win, WIN DAMMIT WINNN! So Laughton, Tyler and co. will have to wait it out and develop in the AHL and co. We have enough forward youngsters in the NHL stable to work with, now defense is another story, we didn't pick up a marquee name. Under that blueprint you privately tell your tenured players that we are not going to keep you at season end. They did it for Briere....why not Gagne?

You can try to deduce all you want and try to rationale who gets killed and what group stays alive, It's all commulative until the triggers on you. You can make this an intellectual attorney dribble...but I call bullshit. Homer should of manned up and said Simone we don't think we will have you in our plans. Plain and simple. No bullshit plan b or c. Homer your an ass to let it go down like this. You should of stated it and not punk someone. Gagne IS/and WAS our own. Ed Snider WHAT DO YOU. I'M POINTING TO YOU! HAVE TO SAY ABOUT HOW THIS WENT DOWN? Paul made you look bad, made the organization look bad...and is it all Homer's fault. I question the direction this has caused/and was heading. It's easy to quarterback bullshit, when your not the one who farted and ended up shitting all over your self. We don't have the whole story. But a **** stain doesn't lie. The question is who's **** stain is it anyway. Simone says it in his quote. What's one more year, what's one more year to have Gagne play and tell him in that contract year that we will sign you for this year and we open the option that you can retire a Flyer, It's up to you to take this package or if you feel you have more in the tank feel free to field offers, and we hope the best for you. That's classy. That's what a classy orgainzation does. Holds you up for a stated while and makes it clear which direction theyre going. It's a sport, yes it's a stupid sport, but your dealing with peoples lives, and no crap about "well he's a millionaire and he can take it, boo hoo hoo" he lost money and can't play on another team boo hoo hoo. F. U. Center. That doesn't give anyone the right to claim you as unworthy because your price tag is higher. Whether a beggar or a billionaire they are still human, and that is lost in the translation of business. You start dicken around with peoples lives and that's when all hell can brake loose. Line combinations. They should put Gagne with G and Jake and put Hartnell on the LW line in question. He would of been a better fit. Not every line needs a checker. Gagne is playoff worthy. And he felt the best he has in a long time, Let the rookies play....yes you let them play but you don't release a whole squad of youngsters, you trickle them in, in pairs. You don't go the Oilers route...all talent no head. Maddog and Rux make valid points. You teach your kids how to calibrate their compass and what to do during your travels, but you sure do teach them not to be an ass on the way there. Teach them to check themselves before they wreck themselves. And you tell your group these are the starter tools in life, you still need to collect more tools. Know how to use them and when. Homer this time did him dirty and he got caught slippin' Green lights on you Paul. you better fix this or your next. You should bring back Gagne. Rosehill, Hall signings were not a betterment for the team, Gagne is, sign him at least to one year and state no promises. Flyers fans DON'T LIKE HOW THIS WENT DOWN and we WILL BE VOCAL.

Gagne would of been better. I like Mike Richards, but Mike Richards at 36 and you have to consider his health and durability. Setting the tone on the ice is nice, but if after a few months you end up setting the bone that got dislocated, or a torn knee, then all you'll be setting is the remote control to DVR the game. Gagne was for one more year or two, then he would of probabely retired. Cleary is for THREE YEARS NTC. I will have to wait and see before I comment on Cleary being the better of the two, but I know Gags was playoff proven. The only upside I can see right now is that Cleary will seem to teach the younger guys a little more to improve their game and show them what it is to have a winning attitude. ..........to be continued.............

Well played... not like this vid..... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1zmAhOSBec

Ya and I can't seem to remember who the other team that got knocked out and we didn't have to play them, was it the Capitals?

I would like to see the line of Gagne, Vinny and Read. This would be considered an offensive line with three capable finishers with two clearly solid two way players. I would put Read also on the PK here and there because he knows how to score in shorthanded situations. I would like one day to see Schenn, Laughton and Simmer on a line as well, if Simmer was occupied on another line I would want to try out Rinaldo there. that line would have the intensity of the Legion Of Doom in a small way. I'm up in the air whith the line of Claude and Jake as far as that goes, though Hartnell does create space and is a solid distraction to the opponents if he's on G's line. Although Hartnell causes me to have mood swings with his raw talent and a non commitment to his physical conditioning and improvement. I think Jagr was the best thing for him, even more so than G's improvement with Jagr. Another option would be to move Jake to right wing, with G centering and Vinny at right wing. Vinny can score off that wing as he's show'd it against us. Doing that would open up putting Hartnell, Schenn and Simmer on another line. Putting Read, Cooter and Gagne on another. With Rinaldo, Hall/Laughton and Talbot on another as well: Voracek Giroux Vinny Hartnell Schenn Simmer Read Cooter Gagne Rinaldo Hall/Laughton Talbot I would put Hall/Laughton's line out first on away games and some home games then follow up with Schenn's line, then switch G's line and Cooter's line here and there. When you relegate a player to a class system, those players compartmentalize themselves in a pigeon holed position. I believe all lines should be put out in the first quarter(actually third) and you widdle your way down to the 2nd period and 3rd calling them from that point 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th liners. This way they can all feel like on any given night they can heavily contribute to the win. And motivate the natural talent to perform, to get 1st line minutes. This is a crushing wave team strategy and causes the opponents defensive coordinator to have fits because they can't always pin down starting lineups, defensive draw faceoffs, etc. This also doesn't put all the pressure on quote, unquote "Star Players" to wear themselves out indirectly mentally and physically. In regards to the Flyers team that made it to the playoffs with Leighton. Alot of things happened during that run that assisted us from even being there....I recall to teams that had our number, conviniently being dispatched during our run that allowed us to dodge a few bullets on the way to the finals. In this regard although not pointed out Fanatic 5.0 was on to something and that talented lazy crew had no business in the finals, but somehow ended showing up at the party(dance). You can't win on talent alone....go ask Ovechkin. The team has to play as a team. I liked our pieces during that run but unfortunately not all of them worked at the same time, either due to injury, conditioning or lapses in awareness.

Roouuff......Roouuff...........Rooufff! coon' dogs barkin up the wrong tree. It's all about Holla....Holla....Holla Holla'burton. Smoke and mirrors boys and girls, smoke and mirrors. War now a days is strategic economic management asset. Big business. very big. While them boys are fighten to get them coon ticks off each others backs. Boss Hoggs countin' his chikens at the dude ranch....gyekk, gyekk, gyekk. Unfortunately it's the ama'rican civilian, turned soilder, who's left with the bill. And sometimes Boss Hoggs mouth opens up more then, their(civilian turned soilder) body can cash. From a global financial business endeavor, it makes plenty sense. From a social-polytheistic viewpoint, it's greedy, narcissistic behaviour.] 'Member boys are birth Rite keystone states constitution was written and setup to protect/prevent against tyranny foriegn OR domestic.....foreign orrr......domestic....... It's a tuff blindfold that has to come off on someone who's master has crafted a delightful collar to go along with it's......SQUIRELL! (hockey season) LET'S GO FLYERS! LET'S GO!

To say Richards is not a great/good playoff contributor is short sighted. When watching him play in the playoffs, he played with heart, as a Philadelphian Core belieber, that's all we as Philadelphia ask for. Play with your heart, give it, give it, give it all you got. Mike Richards gave us that. Unfortunately there were other outside circumstances that fogged up the Flyer career. Carter I like, but he is not Bully Tuff mold. He has his limitations. A sparrow can never be a chicken hawk. Learn to associate your tools to the job at hand. I do not like that Carter was stand offish when it came to hustleing for the puck. This is Hockey, not bocce'. Unfortunately not all players drafted are going to play with intensity compareble to Lappy, and Talbot. If Stamkos wasn't scoring as much as he has, I would see him as suspect as well. Different parts/pieces to a machine that's all. It would be nice to see an ear score a knockout punch in a bout but unfortunately the ear can only help listen to cue's in a bout and that's about all.

Me: "Bob was a rookie and has an all access pass for his messups whether in the first inning or after the 4th quarter double overtime it's all the same." J2: Really? I think Bob had WAY to short of a leash in the playoffs that year, one bad period and he was never spotted again, despite playing his heart out in a tough loss the game before. I often wonder how different things would have been if Lavi went back to Bob at some point, cause with a talent like that, if he got hot, he could have won it all. Bob was almost put in a situation, dammed if you do dammed if you don't. I believe he should of not been shelved for so long after a mistake. And the goalie carousel was the coaches doing. It's like you get a flat going down an ice road and instead of coasting and tapping the gas pedal at the right times, you leave the foot on the gas as the leg freezes up. We kept going down the road of the Stanley Cup Finals but unfortunately that bus ended up loosing control and crashed 20 feet from the finish line. The blame game falls on the coach, he has the final say who is on the ice when.(whether he listens to upper management or not), the Gm for selecting the players who will have a chance to play on the squad, and the owner, for not getting involved enough or in the Bryz case, too involved and causing a dominoe effect down the chain of command. Reading comprehension can be a tricky thing when you are in a situation and have tunnel vision. Reese bottom line can be a good coach, with certain type of players. But just like the coach in the corner of a boxing match, you can yell out what to do, but it is up to the player to take it in and follow through. Reese as a goalie coach, I believe is a bit pre mature at this moment with our situation. And will still be a little premature after this one year contract year for our goalies. They're just touching ground this year and might not have enough time to of been situated before they might take off again to another city. So again we need a two - three year window to minimally judge the goalie coach, coaching the same goalie. I think if you have him coaching a player for 3 + years, take those stats, whether the goalie coach is on the same team or not. and add up those player/goalie coach stats and that might give you a clear body of work to judge him by.