doom88 Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 Semin and Green in Was come to mind right away. Guys who could get away by talent and never had to work hard. Not saying Green is a good D for the record. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 @doom88JvR Schenn and Simmons were beginning to grind the hell out of people for the couple of games they were together. and for the record, i'd rather not trade 21, but i think there are severe issues on the blueline that need addressed, we have no problem, finding forwards/drafting forwards/developing forwards. there are two huge minute defenseman that may not be back next year and the pu-pu platter in adirondack isn't ready by a mile, if we're thinking the championship window is in 2 or 3 years ? good players need to be acquired, and to get quality you must give up quality, i can part with JvR, I do not want to see Monoboy, Schenn, or Read in any deal. @flyercanuckdoes +/- not apply to penalty kill situations ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canoli Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 I should've clarified my point. I'm not saying there aren't tons of guys who get/got by on talent alone - there are Joe Thornton types all over the NHL. I'm saying how many of them were benched more than once in their rookie year for basically not working hard enough - to the point where it showed, where it was obvious? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doom88 Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 @doom88JvR Schenn and Simmons were beginning to grind the hell out of people for the couple of games they were together. and for the record, i'd rather not trade 21, but i think there are severe issues on the blueline that need addressed, we have no problem, finding forwards/drafting forwards/developing forwards. there are two huge minute defenseman that may not be back next year and the pu-pu platter in adirondack isn't ready by a mile, if we're thinking the championship window is in 2 or 3 years ? good players need to be acquired, and to get quality you must give up quality, i can part with JvR, I do not want to see Monoboy, Schenn, or Read in any deal. @flyercanuckdoes +/- not apply to penalty kill situations ?The rooks are playing well now, but are far from established sure things. I wouldn't go all in on them yet. I could move JVR, but for the right return only.+/- counts on PK if you score SHG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canoli Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 (edited) and just for the record I'm all for JVR making it in Philly. He grew up 1 town away from me and anyone from New Jersey who makes the NHL is alright by me. Jim Dowd was one of my favorite players just for that reason. So I'm not against JVR - and of course I realize it's waaaay early in his career to be making hasty decisions about him. But the red flags are a-wavin'... no? and have been for awhile...and of course he was a Rags' fan growing up...sorry but that's a gigantic strike against him. He grew up in Central Jersey, slightly closer to NYC than Philly. But so did I and I never - ever - considered the Rangers as anything but the enemy! Edited February 18, 2012 by canoli Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyS Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 I have been seeing Johnson tied to a possible deal with the Flyers for JVR. Does anyone know anything about this guy and would it be a good trade for the Flyers. I really don't see where JVR fits with this team anymore.Find a way to get them to include a pick & Bernier & I do that deal.How about Bob, JvR & Carle for JJ, Bernier, Stoll & a #1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canoli Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 hey Andy! Welcome man, saw on the shout box you just joined us here - good to see you.As for the deal you suggest, in value I think it's a good trade but I wouldn't do it because I'd like for once to just ride out the year without any major changes. In principle I don't like changing that many roster players all at once unless we were out of the PO hunt. I only like to see those mega deals when a team is drowning. I like the chemistry of our team this year and I don't think Stoll does much to improve us. Maybe on face-offs.It's a shame that Bob isn't going anywhere in his career behind Mr Small. Trading him would be the best thing for him but I'm hoping (sort of) Bryzgalov continues to disappoint and we find a way to get rid of him.As far as Carle I think he's way underrated on this board and I'd only move him if he's hoping for a huge payday - over $4.5/year. In that case I'd like to move him but of course we don't know - and we don't know if Paul knows - what Carle is hoping for money-wise.Bernier is having a fine year and I'd want him or someone like him if we move Bob, for sure. But is he an upgrade over Bob? I'm sure you'll agree it's too early to tell for either one of them...what they'll turn out to be.I like our team right now. With better goaltending and some adjustments (or renewed commitment) to our TEAM D we are one of the favs to come out of the East. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 @canoli The draft is littered with first round picks who don't make it because they didn't have the drive.. There are a lot. There are plenty who made it but were benched several times (Kessel, Daigle are top 5 picks who's teams gave up on them quickly) There are those that had less of a career than them, but were top 10 picks.( Alexeev? Yakubov? Svitov? Chistov? Skille? Pouliot? Taticek?, Valibek? Picard?) Once you get past them, there are plenty. Not all don't make it cause of heart, some just don't have the talent. All those I mentioned had NHL calibre talent, and house league heart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkearse123 Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 On the debate of ceilings, I think it's interesting to point out their HF profileshttp://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospect/jack_johnson Jack Johnson Prospect Grade: 9.0 Bhttp://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospect/James_VanRiemsdyk James vanRiemsdyk Prospect Grade: 8.0 BNow, that's not to say either of them will live up to the grades or sink to those grades or whatever.But clearly, at least at one point, Jack Johnson had a significantly higher grade by this particular unbiased scouting service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doom88 Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 Its a very good point. Universally, their opinion is more reputable, and difficult to argue against. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyS Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 hey Andy! Welcome man, saw on the shout box you just joined us here - good to see you.As for the deal you suggest, in value I think it's a good trade but I wouldn't do it because I'd like for once to just ride out the year without any major changes. In principle I don't like changing that many roster players all at once unless we were out of the PO hunt. I only like to see those mega deals when a team is drowning. I like the chemistry of our team this year and I don't think Stoll does much to improve us. Maybe on face-offs.It's a shame that Bob isn't going anywhere in his career behind Mr Small. Trading him would be the best thing for him but I'm hoping (sort of) Bryzgalov continues to disappoint and we find a way to get rid of him.As far as Carle I think he's way underrated on this board and I'd only move him if he's hoping for a huge payday - over $4.5/year. In that case I'd like to move him but of course we don't know - and we don't know if Paul knows - what Carle is hoping for money-wise.Bernier is having a fine year and I'd want him or someone like him if we move Bob, for sure. But is he an upgrade over Bob? I'm sure you'll agree it's too early to tell for either one of them...what they'll turn out to be.I like our team right now. With better goaltending and some adjustments (or renewed commitment) to our TEAM D we are one of the favs to come out of the East.Good to be here!I do think Bernier has a much higher ceiling than Bob. I think he's that good.And I like Carle, but he's not a $5million/year player. Call it the "Leino" factor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
five6four Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 huh? JVR was the second pick of the 2007 and Johnson was the third pick of the draft in 2005. How do you figure that the Flyers would get an additional first round pick?just giving my current opinion on where i value each player. at this point its mostly irrelevant what position each was drafted multiple years ago. just not that high on johnson compared to jvr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hf101 Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 @five6fourunderstood, however there really isn't much reason to be so high on jvr either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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