Game 15: Dallas Stars at Philadelphia Flyers; 11/13/12 @ 1 PM, NBCSP

[Howie58]

Greetings:

 

Dallas is favored (-150).  We are on a four-game losing streak against them, and our historical record is under .500.  

Flyers History - History Versus Dallas Stars

 

This is a big squad and they knock us around.  I haven't seen anything on starting goaltenders.   We are 0-3-0 in our back-to-backs this year.  

 

 

 

Edited November 13, 2022 by Howie58

[GrittyForever]

After the dud against Ottawa I expect a blow out. For them. 

[Samifan]

I was trying to hold off until halfway thru the season but oh well….

 

Edited November 13, 2022 by Samifan

[RonJeremy]

15 hours ago, Howie58 said:

Greetings:

 

Dallas is favored (-150).  We are on a four-game losing streak against them, and our historical record is under .500.  

Flyers History - History Versus Dallas Stars

 

This is a big squad and they knock us around.  I haven't seen anything on starting goaltenders.   We are 0-3-0 in our back-to-backs this year.  

 

 

 

What's the over/under for a 10 game losing streak?

[Howie58]

I listened to first on Sirius. Sounds like we are off to our usual poor start. I guess Braun deflected one through Sandstrom.  When the poop.....

 

[Samifan]

Take the over! This team cannot score and CUCK Fletcher thinks things will get better on the offensive side when Coots gets back in March. SMFH!

[RonJeremy]

Just now, Samifan said:

Take the over! This team cannot score and CUCK Fletcher thinks things will get better on the offensive side when Coots gets back in March. SMFH!

At the deadline we need to clean house and trade any tradeable vets we can that are not part of the future and tank the rest of the way for a top 5 pick. If Ersson and Sandstrom play well , I would even listen to offers for Hart. No point in ruining a good asset for the next 5 years on a losing team.

[Howie58]

On 11/12/2022 at 10:25 PM, Howie58 said:

Greetings:

 

Dallas is favored (-150).  We are on a four-game losing streak against them, and our historical record is under .500.  

Flyers History - History Versus Dallas Stars

 

This is a big squad and they knock us around.  I haven't seen anything on starting goaltenders.   We are 0-3-0 in our back-to-backs this year.  

 

 

 

 

21 hours ago, GrittyForever said:

After the dud against Ottawa I expect a blow out. For them. 

We got knocked around.  Gritty--your expectations were met.

[Howie58]

Well, judging by the few posts on this thread...we have taken a collective bail on the squad.  Our coach's post-game was interesting in the sense that he was forced to defend their effort and comment on how much he has to teach them.  That is admirable.  But talent matters.  And we don't have much. 

[GrittyForever]

1 hour ago, Howie58 said:

 

We got knocked around.  Gritty--your expectations were met.

Sadly this is true. We are looking worse and worse each game and the lack of talent is really showing. 

[Math]

I didn't really know what to expect in this game from the other side's perspective. The Stars were putrid in their last two games and Öttinger had a difficult outing for his first game since his injury, so they had to rebound.

 

The Flyers had lots of shots but very few were really dangerous. The Stars capitalized on special teams -- this situation was the game decider -- and in the third the Flyers never seemed to be involved that much. Overall, I guess we can all agree on this: **** sunday games at noon.

[radoran]

9 hours ago, GrittyForever said:

the lack of talent is really showing. 

 

The effort appears to be there, but there's only so much effort alone can do. Overall teams are coming together and playing more as a unit and that's overcoming the Flyers' early effort.

 

I don't know that the fans are booing the team on the ice as much as they are booing the people that created that team.

 

24 minutes ago, Math said:

in the third the Flyers never seemed to be involved that much.

 

Again, there's really only so much you can accomplish when you are simply outclassed in talent. The Flyers are icing three waiver claim guys, including one on the second line.

[icehole]

During Torts post-game presser, he seemed to be annoyed that the crowd was booing. As a fan, it's hard to separate losing and lack of effort. His goal is to get his players to give best effort, and I think he's accomplished that. But us fans can't live with effort alone. So I hope those fans are booing more for what they put on the ice rather than what they players out there are giving.

[Howie58]

56 minutes ago, icehole said:

During Torts post-game presser, he seemed to be annoyed that the crowd was booing. As a fan, it's hard to separate losing and lack of effort. His goal is to get his players to give best effort, and I think he's accomplished that. But us fans can't live with effort alone. So I hope those fans are booing more for what they put on the ice rather than what they players out there are giving.

That's well-said.  I suspect fans--especially those of us who remember the ascent from expansion underclass to Stanley Cup winner and model franchise--have a helluva time with a decade + of mediocrity.  I think Lukas Sedlak is a great pickup.  He isn't a finisher but he competes.  The trouble is a team that's relying on waiver pickups to band aid years of bad drafts, lousy signings, and lunatic trades.  I am finding it harder and harder to watch.  It isn't just a bad product. The lack of progress over the last half-decade is hard to swallow. While driving to work this AM, I was thinking that this isn't much different from the Hakstol days...you win games where you undershoot your opponent and your goalie steals a game.  Yeah, I understand the booing...and the reality of $99 four-packs and $27 dollar mid-bowl seats.  Who wants to pay for this?  

[OccamsRazor]

2 hours ago, icehole said:

During Torts post-game presser, he seemed to be annoyed that the crowd was booing.

 

And as a fan who gives a fcuk if he is annoyed don't like it coach and play better.

 

End of story they paid their hard earned cash they've earned the right to cheer or boo.

 

 

[GrittyForever]

3 hours ago, radoran said:

 

The effort appears to be there, but there's only so much effort alone can do. Overall teams are coming together and playing more as a unit and that's overcoming the Flyers' early effort.

 

I don't know that the fans are booing the team on the ice as much as they are booing the people that created that team.

 

 

Again, there's really only so much you can accomplish when you are simply outclassed in talent. The Flyers are icing three waiver claim guys, including one on the second line.

You take away the Konecny line and there's very little left after that in terms of scoring ability/talent. Can't win in this league with one line. 

[radoran]

27 minutes ago, GrittyForever said:

You take away the Konecny line and there's very little left after that in terms of scoring ability/talent. Can't win in this league with one line. 

 

The "second line" is Laughton-Cates-MacEwan. Laughton is on PP1. The other two are on PP2.

 

No. Really. A bottom six guy with middle six upside, a 23yo rookie fifth rounder, and a waiver wire pickup.

 

7-6-2 is something of a minor miracle under the circumstances.

 

I don't think they keep that pace up and get to 87 points. But if they keep up the 3-5-2 over the past ten, that can get them up around the 69/70 range which c/should comfortably take them out of a high lottery pick.

[GrittyForever]

6 hours ago, radoran said:

 

The "second line" is Laughton-Cates-MacEwan. Laughton is on PP1. The other two are on PP2.

 

No. Really. A bottom six guy with middle six upside, a 23yo rookie fifth rounder, and a waiver wire pickup.

 

7-6-2 is something of a minor miracle under the circumstances.

 

I don't think they keep that pace up and get to 87 points. But if they keep up the 3-5-2 over the past ten, that can get them up around the 69/70 range which c/should comfortably take them out of a high lottery pick.

I agree completely but I also think Torts is doing it the right way under the circumstances. You build a team from the goal out not from the forwards back. For too many years this team had some talent up front but no D worth talking about and failures in goal. Now we have Hart. They have made errors building the D (Risto etc) but have tried now I think. It's a bit better than it was. The forwards need to come soon after. maybe when we clear some cap room. 

 

I just believe that building a strong hard to play against culture is the right approach but it will take time. 

[radoran]

10 minutes ago, GrittyForever said:

I just believe that building a strong hard to play against culture is the right approach but it will take time. 

 

It is a foundation.

 

The question is whether the skill guys that come in buy in.

 

Atkinson is an obvious asset, but is mysteriously MIA.

 

I get establishing culture and am supportive of Tortorella.

 

But honestly a mid 80s point team is a disaster for the franchise. It keeps them mired where they have been for a decade.

 

If it wasn't for the dead weight on the salary cap they would be in a different position. If Couturier doesn't pan out, it's potentially an extinction level event.

 

They could be looking at a Blackhawks level period of irrelevance.

 

It's been ten years and they're further away than when they started.

[GrittyForever]

It definitely is and has been a long time, but this is Torts year 1. It's hard, but there's no other way to look at it unless you want to switch teams or stop watching hockey. 

[CorkyM]

I feel sorry for the fans, they are good people and great fans. I went to a lot of games from 1974 on, at the old Spectrum, when I lived in the Lehigh Valley.

[Howie58]

Well, I guess we can take solace from the teams below us in the standings.  Maybe PIT and WSH have aged out and in decline.  Columbus--tough to say what's going on.  Torts is extracting what he can.  That doesn't make it fun to watch.  And I agree that better-than-expected point totals may not do much other than hurt our drafting--assuming CF and the Gang would put high draft picks to good use.  Oh yeah.....

Edited November 15, 2022 by Howie58

[icehole]

21 hours ago, Howie58 said:

I am finding it harder and harder to watch.  It isn't just a bad product. The lack of progress over the last half-decade is hard to swallow. 

This is why I am leaning more and more towards hoping they lose a lot of games this year. Even though these kids compete, and maybe they grind out a win here and there, it's not fun. They started the season pretty good, and it did nothing for me. The ONLY way it turns around for me is if they get a young superstar that they can build around for 10+ years. I don't think any teams are willing to get rid of their young superstars, but I think we all know what it will take to get one.

[radoran]

12 hours ago, GrittyForever said:

but there's no other way to look at it unless you want to switch teams or stop watching hockey

 

Honestly, I don't watch as much as I used to. Or much at all. I've checked in on a few games and they look like an undertalented squad playing hard but likely outclassed as the season progresses. I don't think they have a "next gear."

 

They have $14M in foundational pieces sitting on IR and another ~$6M mysteriously absent. At least $6.25M of that for the next four years.

 

If you're not the most talented team to start with and you have 20% of your cap missing, that's not something you build on.

 

Torts could be the returned incarnation of Scotty Bowman and Jack Adams and he's not going to get much with this roster.

 

3 hours ago, icehole said:

I don't think any teams are willing to get rid of their young superstars, but I think we all know what it will take to get one.

 

One was available in the offseason - full disclosure, I'm not a Johnny Hockey fan. They just needed to eat salary on JVR and acknowledge Ellis was done and they did neither.

 

I've spent my life supporting a team that routinely would legitimately compete for the Stanley Cup and now I'm following one that hopes they can get the team to "play hard" after being a middling bubble playoff team for ten years.

 

That ain't progress...

 

Edited November 15, 2022 by radoran

[GrittyForever]

5 hours ago, radoran said:

 

Honestly, I don't watch as much as I used to. Or much at all. I've checked in on a few games and they look like an undertalented squad playing hard but likely outclassed as the season progresses. I don't think they have a "next gear."

 

They have $14M in foundational pieces sitting on IR and another ~$6M mysteriously absent. At least $6.25M of that for the next four years.

 

If you're not the most talented team to start with and you have 20% of your cap missing, that's not something you build on.

 

Torts could be the returned incarnation of Scotty Bowman and Jack Adams and he's not going to get much with this roster.

I get that, and I don't pay as much attention as I used to. Last game I was watching it on a replay (sportsnet) and I had to take a dump. I could hit pause, but I didn't bother. I missed nothing. Maybe there was some sort of equivalence even. I play online chess and do that while the game's on. It's not riveting stuff, but I do like hockey so I keep looking now and again. 

You're clearly still invested though. Or else why would you be wasting your time talking about them here? I think anyone still here (aside from trolls) is a real fan or a masochist. 

 

Yup, the cap is screwed. Yup, Fletcher has done a really bad job and is mostly responsible for screwing up that cap. Yup, draft picks have not been the best choices in most cases. 

 

BUT, they did hire Torts and it feels like they want to rebuild his way so I go with that hope. This is clearly a tear down year though. I think Torts is evaluating right now and they will try to move out as much of this roster as they can and then rebuild. the worst thing that can probably happen is Torts exceeds low expectations for this year and they are fooled into thinking less changes are needed. But I'm going to stick with that hope. 

A year from now if nothing much has changed, then I might start to give up.