honest question: why briere?

[OccamsRazor]

14 hours ago, GratefulFlyers said:

 

ha! yeah he's got that going for him...firsthand, up close, here's exactly what you don't want to do.

 

 

Should have read through before posting but this is what i am surely seeing...he can guess or hope or cross his fingers on any moves he makes seems like all Chuck and friends are doing. It will help with an identity and a star to push forward with....

[flyercanuck]

Who knows...maybe if its Briere and Homer and Fletcher tell him to outbid himself on some washed up bum and throw in a 2nd for good measure he crosschecks them in the face.

[GrittyForever]

Why not? 

 

That pretty much sums it for me too and as said earlier, anybody but Fletcher. 

 

I liked Briere so I'd want him to succeed. He's a character guy. I could be wrong, but given his history, how he worked and trained as an athlete I see him working extremely hard. Will he be great? idk, but the work ethic is a start. 

[radoran]

2 hours ago, GrittyForever said:

Why not? 

 

That pretty much sums it for me too and as said earlier, anybody but Fletcher. 

 

I think the only real concern is "have they done anything other than groom Briere for the job?"

 

Have they made a serious look around the league at who might be available with a somewhat to proven track record?

 

That person may not exist, but I just lack faith in the organization* to handle the process in a serious and professional manner.

 

"This is our guy" simply isn't the ringing endorsement they might hope that it is.

 

I have nothing against Briere. I would wish him nothing but the best and wait to see how he handled the job.

 

They didn't do that sort of a search for Fletch, either. They had no plan when Hextall said he was sticking to his plan. They just fired him and then left themselves scrambling.

 

"The guy they found quickly" started off by signing Kevin Hayes.

 

One might argue it has not improved.

 

So now it's the guy that they pretty much literally have taught him everything he knows about the job, first as the GM who aggressively pursued him as a UFA and then as the guys who have given him every job of his managerial career.

 

Again, bon chance Danny!

 

Edited December 26, 2022 by radoran

[flyercanuck]

All I know is I want someone else in place asap. I don't want Fletcher trading assets to try and save his sorry ass. I don't want him anywhere near another Flyers transaction other than Fletcher replaced. 

 

And if the stars align and the hockey gods smile on Philly and grant us the 1st overall pick, I want Connor Bedard and not Charlie Stramel because look...Minnesota! 

[mojo1917]

2 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

All I know is I want someone else in place asap. I don't want Fletcher trading assets to try and save his sorry ass. I don't want him anywhere near another Flyers transaction other than Fletcher replaced. 

I don't want him to oversee the trade deadline either.

This is why I'm hoping that after the world junior, we get a new GM presser. 

I asked Santa for that for X-mas. 

 

 

[flyercanuck]

2 hours ago, mojo1917 said:

I don't want him to oversee the trade deadline either.

This is why I'm hoping that after the world junior, we get a new GM presser. 

I asked Santa for that for X-mas. 

 

 

 

I hope he comes through for you mojo...you deserve it!

[GrittyForever]

19 hours ago, radoran said:

 

I think the only real concern is "have they done anything other than groom Briere for the job?"

 

Have they made a serious look around the league at who might be available with a somewhat to proven track record?

 

That person may not exist, but I just lack faith in the organization* to handle the process in a serious and professional manner.

 

"This is our guy" simply isn't the ringing endorsement they might hope that it is.

 

I have nothing against Briere. I would wish him nothing but the best and wait to see how he handled the job.

 

They didn't do that sort of a search for Fletch, either. They had no plan when Hextall said he was sticking to his plan. They just fired him and then left themselves scrambling.

 

"The guy they found quickly" started off by signing Kevin Hayes.

 

One might argue it has not improved.

 

So now it's the guy that they pretty much literally have taught him everything he knows about the job, first as the GM who aggressively pursued him as a UFA and then as the guys who have given him every job of his managerial career.

 

Again, bon chance Danny!

 

Have they done anything else? Probably not. 

Can I think of an alternate GM choice among assistant GMs and out of work ones around the league, not really. No one who screams out I should be a GM in the league (in the way a guy like Trotz is an obvious coaching choice for someone). There are candidates and possibles and even some veterans but nobody who is a sure thing slam dunk. So Briere is as good a choice as any of them. 

 

I suspect, the upper echelon feels they messed up by going outside of the Flyer family tree after Hextall and in their minds they believe going back to a "Flyer" is what they should have done all along. I think it would be hard to convince any of them to go outside the Flyer family. 

[SCFlyguy]

1 hour ago, GrittyForever said:

So Briere is as good a choice as any of them. 

I would say the fact that Briere was taught by the morons we so desperately want to replace immediately moves him below candidates that have had some exposure to another org.  It also moves him below many single-cell organisms on my personal list.

[radoran]

1 hour ago, GrittyForever said:

Can I think of an alternate GM choice among assistant GMs and out of work ones around the league, not really. No one who screams out I should be a GM in the league

 

I would like to believe that the capabilities of a professional sports franchise to evaluate talent across the league is somewhat superior to, say, ours.

 

Sure, Briere is as good a choice as any amongst the one former player they decided to groom for the role.

 

If they had done a similar search for Tortorella, we'd just as likely have Lapperiere behind the bench.

 

Again - not an indictment on Danny. He could turn out great.

 

We'll likely find out.

[aziz]

3 hours ago, GrittyForever said:

I think it would be hard to convince any of them to go outside the Flyer family. 

 

And this right here is what makes ALL of them entirely unqualified to be running anything this side of a lemonade stand.  And even then, I'd want adult supervision.

 

I think you are probably right.  I also think thinking someone being "from the Flyers' family" is even worth noting, much less a deciding data point, makes as much sense as insisting the next GM has to be left handed with good hair.

[GrittyForever]

2 hours ago, SCFlyguy said:

I would say the fact that Briere was taught by the morons we so desperately want to replace immediately moves him below candidates that have had some exposure to another org.  It also moves him below many single-cell organisms on my personal list.

That's a real f'n insult to Briere and he deserves better than that. What's your assumption that Briere comes in there like a toddler with no idea of what he'd do or how he'd do it? he just comes in and says Bobby, Paul, please tell me how to hold a pencil. Come on man.

[GrittyForever]

1 hour ago, aziz said:

 

And this right here is what makes ALL of them entirely unqualified to be running anything this side of a lemonade stand.  And even then, I'd want adult supervision.

 

I think you are probably right.  I also think thinking someone being "from the Flyers' family" is even worth noting, much less a deciding data point, makes as much sense as insisting the next GM has to be left handed with good hair.

Not really, I think the premise is "make it like it was when you were playing here" and that isn't a terrible place to start. 

[radoran]

37 minutes ago, GrittyForever said:

Not really, I think the premise is "make it like it was when you were playing here" and that isn't a terrible place to start. 

 

Well, right, except the salary cap is significantly tighter and the ability to skirt the rules has been significantly curtailed.

 

Anything based on "making it how it used to be" is doomed from the start as it can't be that way.

 

The Flyers papered over mistakes before with wads of money. That option isn't there.

 

Look at Cup winners over the past decade plus of Flyer futility and you'll see a radically different approach to building a team than the one that has the Flyers where they are now.

 

Briere has a chance to do things differently. We'll see if he has a "his way".

Edited December 27, 2022 by radoran

[aziz]

1 hour ago, GrittyForever said:

That's a real f'n insult to Briere and he deserves better than that. What's your assumption that Briere comes in there like a toddler with no idea of what he'd do or how he'd do it? he just comes in and says Bobby, Paul, please tell me how to hold a pencil. Come on man.

 

I won't speak for anyone else, but my fear is exactly what you facetiously suggested: that he'd basically ask for permission to use the rest room.  Putting aside his career with the Flyers as a player, every single bit of his management experience -and more to the point, his management opportunities- came from Flyers' front office's facilitation.  How to do things came from Flyers' brass.  What things to do came from Flyers' brass.  The very chance to do things came from Flyers' brass.  His entire post-player career has been because Bobby and Paul made it happen.  This is not a cauldron from which I would expect anything even vaguely resembling a unique approach, much less a bucking of a decades-long trend, to arise.  New directions do not come from nepotistic conditioning.

 

I could be wrong, of course, but...why would you assume he'd set off sternly in his own direction, having been whole-cloth created and shaped by his bosses?  Isn't is most likely he'd completely embody the  philosophy of those that built him as an executive?  Which is the philosophy that has the Flyers a laughing stock, with no clear options or path from changing that.   Do we want more decisions shaped by that philosophy?

 

If only to rebuke past decision making, hiring from outside the established "club" is absolutely required.  What you thought of Briere as a player is irrelevant.  He is fully a creature of the existing management structure.  He would be expected to play that part to the beat.  His job would require it.  And his training would insist on it.

 

edit:  for grammar.  I learned where the Shift key is.

Edited December 28, 2022 by aziz

[SCFlyguy]

5 hours ago, radoran said:

If they had done a similar search for Tortorella, we'd just as likely have Lapperiere behind the bench.

 

Amazing.  This is the org in a nutshell.

2 hours ago, GrittyForever said:

That's a real f'n insult to Briere and he deserves better than that. What's your assumption that Briere comes in there like a toddler with no idea of what he'd do or how he'd do it? he just comes in and says Bobby, Paul, please tell me how to hold a pencil. Come on man.

I cannot imagine being this worked up about the legacy of Danny Briere.  Did he take you into his house as a rookie too?

Edited December 28, 2022 by SCFlyguy

[CoachX]

On 12/22/2022 at 6:35 PM, aziz said:

So long as the team is terrible, and nothing on the ice is really worth talking about, and the only thing that could change that is a new direction, the "who replaces fletcher" question is prominent.  And there seems to be a significant population of fans, and at least some management, looking at Danny B as the guy to take over.  And I don't really understand.  So, want to find out:  why would Briere look like a good call for the Flyer's next GM?

 

As I see it, here are his qualifications:

 

1.  Knows how hockey works, generally

2.  Has been actively involved in the game and the league since his retirement, so knows who the current players are, both on the team and around the league

3.  Used to play for the Flyers, and wasn't terrible

 

That doesn't really seem like a convincing Curriculum Vitae to me.  And, frankly, has the fatal point 3:  "Used to play for the Flyers, wasn't terrible", which has been the Flyers guiding light for 3 decades.  And a main reason everything has gone to complete crap.

 

I'm not arguing or disagreeing, but there has to be something I'm missing.  Those of you hoping for Briere in the GM's chair, can you tell me why?  "He isn't Fletcher" isn't an answer, because we live on a continent of some 400 million people that aren't Fletcher.  Need more than that.  But totally welcome more than that.  Please bring me up to speed on the thinking there?

Stopped as soon as I read this. This is what I have been saying since the issue came up, only you said it better. Thank you for that .  In addition to your points, I make the point that the guy mentoring him (his words) is Paul Holmgren. I don't know why anyone wants a Paul Holmgren protegee anywhere near a Flyers management position. I find it even more baffling that the same people railing against Holmgren, are pro DB. I also find it baffling that Flyer fans are in favor of hiring a guy with only a limited hockey management profile, and all with a Flyer organization.

 

The only thing I can think of, and it's been said in this forum, is people are hoping he is the next Yzerman. More than likely, he is the next holmgren

[CoachX]

On 12/22/2022 at 8:48 PM, ruxpin said:

believe the consternation masks the ignorance

stop typing things I don't understand!

[CoachX]

On 12/23/2022 at 2:23 PM, Digityman said:

(2) Rose the the ranks to GM a ECHL team (successfully - isn't qualified, which person is (assuming they weren't a GM previously.

Im not sure he "rose" to anything....more like "appointed because"

[CoachX]

On 12/23/2022 at 3:10 PM, radoran said:

I in no way absolve Scott, but he learned everything he knows about hockey from...

 

Holmgren.

 

His obsession with "definitely a playoff team"; with "spending to the cap"; with "never rebuild."

 

That's ALL Holmgren and Homer is...

 

Clarke's protege.

same can be said about Briere

[OccamsRazor]

53 minutes ago, CoachX said:

same can be said about Briere

 

So you're prepared for went it is announced.

 

Good don't need a bunch of sky is falling types on the Walt Whitman bridge...going to need a lot of room.

 

[GrittyForever]

20 hours ago, radoran said:

 

Well, right, except the salary cap is significantly tighter and the ability to skirt the rules has been significantly curtailed.

 

Anything based on "making it how it used to be" is doomed from the start as it can't be that way.

 

The Flyers papered over mistakes before with wads of money. That option isn't there.

 

Look at Cup winners over the past decade plus of Flyer futility and you'll see a radically different approach to building a team than the one that has the Flyers where they are now.

 

Briere has a chance to do things differently. We'll see if he has a "his way".

Well ya, obviously, but again I think Briere knows that. We know that. Everybody knows that (except Fletcher). 

 

By "like it was" I'm only referring to work ethic and character and the type of players he'd want on the roster. An identity for the team we've lacked for a while now. 

[GrittyForever]

19 hours ago, aziz said:

 

I won't speak for anyone else, but my fear is exactly what you facetiously suggested: that he'd basically ask for permission to use the rest room.  Putting aside his career with the Flyers as a player, every single bit of his management experience -and more to the point, his management opportunities- came from Flyers' front office's facilitation.  How to do things came from Flyers' brass.  What things to do came from Flyers' brass.  The very chance to do things came from Flyers' brass.  His entire post-player career has been because Bobby and Paul made it happen.  This is not a cauldron from which I would expect anything even vaguely resembling a unique approach, much less a bucking of a decades-long trend, to arise.  New directions do not come from nepotistic conditioning.

 

I could be wrong, of course, but...why would you assume he'd set off sternly in his own direction, having been whole-cloth created and shaped by his bosses?  Isn't is most likely he'd completely embody the  philosophy of those that built him as an executive?  Which is the philosophy that has the Flyers a laughing stock, with no clear options or path from changing that.   Do we want more decisions shaped by that philosophy?

 

If only to rebuke past decision making, hiring from outside the established "club" is absolutely required.  What you thought of Briere as a player is irrelevant.  He is fully a creature of the existing management structure.  He would be expected to play that part to the beat.  His job would require it.  And his training would insist on it.

 

edit:  for grammar.  I learned where the Shift key is.

So basically, if I have this right, you're afraid that Briere would be a "yes man" and just hired as a front and all the real decisions would be made by Paul and/or Bob? That it? 

If so, ya, always possible. I really don't think Briere is that kind of guy, but pay someone enough money maybe they sell out their own values so anything is possible but I doubt it. 

[GrittyForever]

18 hours ago, SCFlyguy said:

I cannot imagine being this worked up about the legacy of Danny Briere.  Did he take you into his house as a rookie too?

I just think he's a stand up guy and was always a hard worker so yes, he goes in the good books and "fans" dumping on a guy who isn't even hired for the job yet and hasn't made a single GM decision yet is well, it's a Philly thing I guess. Try to be sunnier until proven otherwise. 

[flyercanuck]

2 hours ago, CoachX said:

Stopped as soon as I read this. This is what I have been saying since the issue came up, only you said it better. Thank you for that .  In addition to your points, I make the point that the guy mentoring him (his words) is Paul Holmgren. I don't know why anyone wants a Paul Holmgren protegee anywhere near a Flyers management position. I find it even more baffling that the same people railing against Holmgren, are pro DB. I also find it baffling that Flyer fans are in favor of hiring a guy with only a limited hockey management profile, and all with a Flyer organization.

 

The only thing I can think of, and it's been said in this forum, is people are hoping he is the next Yzerman. More than likely, he is the next holmgren

 

Do I want Briere as the next GM? No...no I wouldn't.

 

Will I take Briere over Fletcher? Yes...yes I would.