radoran Posted January 27 Author Share Posted January 27 7 minutes ago, JR Ewing said: Thankfully, he's being paid less. Right, and proportionately a lot less. I made the Voracek comparison about an eight year deal that was ultimately crippling for the franchise. This isn't that. Voracek also wasn't a point per game player. He was a 4 in 5 player. 20-22 goals. 60-65 points on average. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR Ewing Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 4 minutes ago, radoran said: Voracek also wasn't a point per game player. He was a 4 in 5 player. 20-22 goals. 60-65 points on average. lol... Well, I know. It only came up because you mentioned that he did it twice, to which I noted that doing it back then meant you were one of the top 10 scorers in the league, compared to today, where you're around 50th. I don't want to do more than part in making a thread about Tippett's contract all about Jakub Voracek, so I apologize for my part in it, and will end my part in it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GratefulFlyers Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 The problem with the term is without it you don’t get the $6.2 AAV. (pardon me if someone already pointed that out I might’ve missed it) Do Flyers’ fans like Tippett as much if he’s closer to $8mil/season? Fewer years but less easily tradeable I think. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted January 28 Author Share Posted January 28 1 hour ago, GratefulFlyers said: The problem with the term is without it you don’t get the $6.2 AAV. (pardon me if someone already pointed that out I might’ve missed it) Do Flyers’ fans like Tippett as much if he’s closer to $8mil/season? Fewer years but less easily tradeable I think. And less buyoutable... By year 7/8 this $6M shouldn't be a problem. If it is, buyout or retain and trade. The limited NTC drops off at the end. It's so well structured if you are used to seeing Fletcher contracts it doesn't make any sense at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR Ewing Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 1 hour ago, GratefulFlyers said: The problem with the term is without it you don’t get the $6.2 AAV. (pardon me if someone already pointed that out I might’ve missed it) Do Flyers’ fans like Tippett as much if he’s closer to $8mil/season? Fewer years but less easily tradeable I think. That's exactly it. When you're buying UFA years, the team will pay either in term OR AAV. Not to go there, but since he was brought up before, in the case of Voracek, Hextall ended up paying for BOTH! With Tippett's, I think that Briere struck a good balance. The last few years don't have a NMC, and the caphit is easier to take with each years that goes by. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 On 1/27/2024 at 12:53 PM, JR Ewing said: So, I'm pretty much in line with others around here. The salary is more than fair, but I think the term runs about three years too long. He provides a combination of high level offense and abysmal defense, but it's much harder to find guys to put the puck in the net than anything else. Generally speaking, I'm usually a bit leery of when guys find a big bump in their scoring, but he's not being zoomed by a high shooting percentage, so it seems repeatable to me. If he loses his wheels before the contract ends, it won't be pretty out there. @jammer2 I'm not sure if I agree with the article comparing Owen Tippett and Nugent-Hopkins. I understand that they're not comparing stylistically speaking, but rather in terms of production. Offense has gone up a fair bit since RNH was Tippett's age. That year, he was 73rd in points-per-game and +10 on a team that gave up more than they scored. Tippett is 117th in points-per-game and-3 on a team with a positive goal differential. I think the jist of it was both promising young players with room to grow. Tippett is never going to approach the output RNH has grown into. The approximately 2.5% difference in total cap space kinda reflects that. In the end, they could have found a young goal scoring power forward to more accurately compare him to. I think Tippetts floor is 30/30 and ceiling could be 45/35....depending on pp deployment. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 On 1/27/2024 at 12:53 PM, JR Ewing said: So, I'm pretty much in line with others around here. The salary is more than fair, but I think the term runs about three years too long. He provides a combination of high level offense and abysmal defense, but it's much harder to find guys to put the puck in the net than anything else. Generally speaking, I'm usually a bit leery of when guys find a big bump in their scoring, but he's not being zoomed by a high shooting percentage, so it seems repeatable to me. If he loses his wheels before the contract ends, it won't be pretty out there. @jammer2 I'm not sure if I agree with the article comparing Owen Tippett and Nugent-Hopkins. I understand that they're not comparing stylistically speaking, but rather in terms of production. Offense has gone up a fair bit since RNH was Tippett's age. That year, he was 73rd in points-per-game and +10 on a team that gave up more than they scored. Tippett is 117th in points-per-game and-3 on a team with a positive goal differential. Some fair comps for Tippett.... Currently hes Lawson Crouse with less snarl and more speed. The player the Flyers HOPE he grows into...that would be Kreider. To approach Kreiders offensive output a few key things have to happen. 1)Flyers badly need a young dynamic #1 Center. 2)He needs to work on his craft enough where he worms his way on to the #1 line and the #1 pp...in order to be exposed to the #1 Center that does not yet exist. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmc687 Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 Love the signing. Dude is 24 now and is signed through his entire prime (with room to grow). With the cap projections this will be a steal soon and can even be considered fair value today. I'm tired of all the pass-first players. We need someone to shoot the puck because the object is to SCORE. A 20+ goal guy w/ 50pts and great underlying metrics... Great work Danny B! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmc687 Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 On 1/27/2024 at 12:53 PM, JR Ewing said: So, I'm pretty much in line with others around here. The salary is more than fair, but I think the term runs about three years too long. He provides a combination of high level offense and abysmal defense, but it's much harder to find guys to put the puck in the net than anything else. Generally speaking, I'm usually a bit leery of when guys find a big bump in their scoring, but he's not being zoomed by a high shooting percentage, so it seems repeatable to me. If he loses his wheels before the contract ends, it won't be pretty out there. @jammer2 I'm not sure if I agree with the article comparing Owen Tippett and Nugent-Hopkins. I understand that they're not comparing stylistically speaking, but rather in terms of production. Offense has gone up a fair bit since RNH was Tippett's age. That year, he was 73rd in points-per-game and +10 on a team that gave up more than they scored. Tippett is 117th in points-per-game and-3 on a team with a positive goal differential. How much better would Giroux and Voracek era been if they had a guy like Tippet? The truth is teams need a Jeff Carter...a shoot first player. Everyone cant be a set-up passer. And dont make me dig up threads where people pulled their hair out at overpassing between G and Scoracek. Tippet is a terrific addition and getting adequate pay for a Top 6 role and potential PP specialists 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 I'd laugh my ass off if they traded Tippett at the deadline...no really I would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 3 hours ago, OccamsRazor said: I'd laugh my ass off if they traded Tippett at the deadline...no really I would. Not if it was for Voracek you wouldn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 1 hour ago, flyercanuck said: Not if it was for Voracek you wouldn't. No for Giroux back... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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