radoran Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 44 minutes ago, JR Ewing said: Trading Tippett right after signing him would be telling every player in hockey not to trust Flyers management Have you met Mike Richards and Jeff Carter? Sure, different group, but the same organization*. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR Ewing Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 3 minutes ago, radoran said: Have you met Mike Richards and Jeff Carter? Sure, different group, but the same organization*. I get it, but the Flyers at least had an out with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted February 29 Author Share Posted February 29 3 hours ago, JR Ewing said: I get it, but the Flyers at least had an out with them. ? They signed both of them to 10+ year deals with movement clauses and traded Crater immediately before they couldn't - to Columbus (for 10 years). An organization commits the next decade to you - and you to them - and two years after you sacrificed your shoulders carrying them to the Cup Final the organization scraps you for parts. First point is that this happened. Second is that no one really cares about it if they get paid not to. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR Ewing Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 38 minutes ago, radoran said: ? They signed both of them to 10+ year deals with movement clauses and traded Crater immediately before they couldn't - to Columbus (for 10 years). An organization commits the next decade to you - and you to them - and two years after you sacrificed your shoulders carrying them to the Cup Final the organization scraps you for parts. First point is that this happened. Second is that no one really cares about it if they get paid not to. I mean that the Flyers were able to say "Hey, we wanted them long term, but we found that they just party too darned much". Not saying I approve, but that if other free agents ask them why they should sign a deal after Richards/Carter, the team could say "Keep your nose clean and you're fine". That is, unless I'm remembering this incorrectly. My memory is that the team wanted them gone and that the prevailing wisdom said it was because of drugs and partying. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted February 29 Author Share Posted February 29 7 hours ago, JR Ewing said: prevailing wisdom said it was because of drugs and partying. That's "the story" that "justifies" it. Never actually been proven. But the upside is getting to work for an organization who commits itself long term to players and then "discovers" a problem. The team line was that they "won the trades" and made the Flyers better. The results speak for themselves. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonJeremy Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 1 hour ago, radoran said: That's "the story" that "justifies" it. Never actually been proven. But the upside is getting to work for an organization who commits itself long term to players and then "discovers" a problem. The team line was that they "won the trades" and made the Flyers better. The results speak for themselves. As far as the story has never been proven…Richard’s got pinched at the border with a crap load of Oxys and was out of hockey at 28, so it looks like they were accurate with Richard’s. Carter had a long productive career, so maybe his partying wasn’t so bad . So maybe they won the Richard’s trade but lost the Carter trade. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 (edited) 1 hour ago, RonJeremy said: As far as the story has never been proven…Richard’s got pinched at the border with a crap load of Oxys and was out of hockey at 28, so it looks like they were accurate with Richard’s. Carter had a long productive career, so maybe his partying wasn’t so bad . So maybe they won the Richard’s trade but lost the Carter trade. Oxys weren't for partying...they were to kill the pain of playing big when you aren't for a team that then shipped you off when you maybe could have used some help. He may even have got hooked on them by said team, just a guess. Richards had a following from his days in junior, busloads from Kitchener used to go to Flyers games because he played his guts out for you. Edited February 29 by flyercanuck 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyClarkeFan16 Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 Just a heads up that I worked with Jeff Carter's mother and that I met Jeff regularly. That man was a ridiculous hard worker. As for boozing it up, he wasn't a boozer at a lot of the events I saw him at. If he was a boozer, he wouldn't have lasted as long as he has. I think the reason Carter was moved was because of his closeness to Richards. I think Holmgren was worried about the locker room and that Carter might have been a distraction with his best friend being moved. I still remember breaking the Columbus deal to his mom at work and she was livid and left work that day. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonJeremy Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 55 minutes ago, flyercanuck said: Oxys weren't for partying...they were to kill the pain of playing big when you aren't for a team that then shipped you off when you maybe could have used some help. He may even have got hooked on them by said team, just a guess. Richards had a following from his days in junior, busloads from Kitchener used to go to Flyers games because he played his guts out for you. He did get hooked while on the Flyers, if you remember he had surgeries on both shoulder's, that’s when it happened . Of course Oxys are for partying, people take them and have a few beers. When Richard’s got pinched the pills he had were not prescribed by his Dr, he bought them on the street. He was a great Flyer and came to play every night for sure. The question is ,did the Flyers management know it was pills and not just drinking and partying in the bar, did they offer him help, did he deny help or having a problem? I do remember when he was having a real off year and people kept asking what’s wrong with Richard’s, he was soon traded. I guess we will never know that part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 6 minutes ago, RonJeremy said: He did get hooked while on the Flyers, if you remember he had surgeries on both shoulder's, that’s when it happened . Of course Oxys are for partying, people take them and have a few beers. When Richard’s got pinched the pills he had were not prescribed by his Dr, he bought them on the street. He was a great Flyer and came to play every night for sure. The question is ,did the Flyers management know it was pills and not just drinking and partying in the bar, did they offer him help, did he deny help or having a problem? I do remember when he was having a real off year and people kept asking what’s wrong with Richard’s, he was soon traded. I guess we will never know that part. Created in 1996, the player assistance program is a joint venture between the NHL and the players' union that's meant to help players when they're struggling with mental health, substance abuse and other issues. The program, which has been around since 1996, is also available to players' family members. Players who enter the program, which is strictly voluntary, continue to get paid while receiving counseling, treatment and other services. The program also offers a hotline that players and their relatives can call to speak with mental health professionals. Since these are sensitive topics, the program and hotline allow players to get the help they need confidentially. The league and NHLPA never disclose why a player has entered the program. Typically, they simply announce that the player will be out indefinitely and that he'll return once he has been cleared by the program's administrators. The Players Assistance program was definitely available to Richards at the time he was a Flyer. Now whether if the Flyers knew about his issues is something, as you mentioned, we will never knew. Even if the Flyers knew, it would still take the player to admit he has a problem and willing to go it the program. Maybe Richards denied he had a problem ... again we will never know, 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GratefulFlyers Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 It was great to see Mike Richards looking good sounding good at the alumni game. I wish I could’ve been there just to shake his hand. 4 hours ago, flyercanuck said: Richards had a following from his days in junior, busloads from Kitchener used to go to Flyers games because he played his guts out for you. He had a “fan club” even before he played in the NHL? That is so great to hear! Not surprising though… you could practically feel his determination, dedication to winning just watching from the stands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyClarkeFan16 Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 I met Mike Richards once after a game in Toronto and quite honestly, he was the most miserable millionaire at the time. I think everything gets amped up in Philadelphia and he hated being under the microscope. It certainly didn't help that he and Pronger did not like each other at all. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 10 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said: It was great to see Mike Richards looking good sounding good at the alumni game. I wish I could’ve been there just to shake his hand. He had a “fan club” even before he played in the NHL? That is so great to hear! Not surprising though… you could practically feel his determination, dedication to winning just watching from the stands. I think there was 3 full busloads that used to travel from Kitchener to Philly when he started playing there. I can't think of that happening with any other player. He was also captain of probably the greatest junior team ever assembled...Team Canadas 2005 squad that outscored the opposition 41-7 and included the likes of Bergeron/Crosby/Getzlaf/Carter/Weber/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonJeremy Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 4 hours ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said: I met Mike Richards once after a game in Toronto and quite honestly, he was the most miserable millionaire at the time. I think everything gets amped up in Philadelphia and he hated being under the microscope. It certainly didn't help that he and Pronger did not like each other at all. I remember the word was the Flyers locker room was divided into two camps Richard’s and Prongers. Now was Pronger a douche and stepping on the Captains toes or did Pronger take over because Richard’s was partying too much and Pronger knew it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyClarkeFan16 Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 Just now, RonJeremy said: I remember the word was the Flyers locker room was divided into two camps Richard’s and Prongers. Now was Pronger a douche and stepping on the Captains toes or did Pronger take over because Richard’s was partying too much and Pronger knew it. The same thing also happened when Forsberg was on the team. I liked Richards, but I think he was extremely defensive when his leadership was questioned. Those two aren't just another guy. Those two are veterans who have won Stanley Cups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted March 1 Author Share Posted March 1 17 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said: The same thing also happened when Forsberg was on the team. I liked Richards, but I think he was extremely defensive when his leadership was questioned. Those two aren't just another guy. Those two are veterans who have won Stanley Cups. Which is why putting him in the position with either of them was stupid. As was giving Richards the C before they had even drafted him. Which was related to the stupid decision to give it to Smith "to convince him to re-sign". There were certainly a lot of stupid decisions. #halloffame 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonJeremy Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 12 minutes ago, radoran said: Which is why putting him in the position with either of them was stupid. As was giving Richards the C before they had even drafted him. Which was related to the stupid decision to give it to Smith "to convince him to re-sign". There were certainly a lot of stupid decisions. #halloffame Absolutely, giving Lindros the C was another. He had enough pressure on him with the refusal to go to Quebec, being anointed the next one after Gretzky and Lemuex ,being 20 years old and being the savior of the Flyers franchise. Your best player is not necessarily your best leader or any kind of leader at all. As you said, lots of stupid decisions, literally about thirty years worth. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheesesteak Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 On 2/29/2024 at 8:22 PM, RonJeremy said: Absolutely, giving Lindros the C was another. He had enough pressure on him with the refusal to go to Quebec, being anointed the next one after Gretzky and Lemuex ,being 20 years old and being the savior of the Flyers franchise. Your best player is not necessarily your best leader or any kind of leader at all. As you said, lots of stupid decisions, literally about thirty years worth. see also, Giroux 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonJeremy Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 35 minutes ago, Cheesesteak said: see also, Giroux The biggest joke of all was you had two playmakers, pass first kinda guys , G and Jake on the same line for years, they should have been on separate lines . Neither would ever shoot the puck and they never got them a finisher. G needed a guy like Tippett. Now we have finishers like Tippett, Brink and Foerester and only one playmaker, which is Frost. Top priority is a skilled center and this team will improve dramatically. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 51 minutes ago, RonJeremy said: Top priority is a skilled center and this team will improve dramatically. We can easily get one of those by playing 4 or 5 playoff games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonJeremy Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 If we end up with four first round picks, we can get one, probably cost us three picks to move up high enough, but if we fall into the top ten it will be a lot easier and less costly I think there’s only a couple of good centers available in this draft, since it’s loaded with defenseman. Or else we try and trade for Zegras, or one of the two centers from Buffalo , but I hear a lot of negative things on these players. I don’t want any injury prone guys, floaters or projects. We probably are gonna lose the Drysdale trade as it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GratefulFlyers Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 2 hours ago, flyercanuck said: We can easily get one of those by playing 4 or 5 playoff games. It’s even easier getting one by selling off all your best players, stocking your roster with AHLers and NHL rejects, bid goodbye to the few remaining fans from the previous years as they disappear altogether … endure X-number of seasons watching these losers … and then every July you get to hope and pray the ping pong balls deliver you a top pick. Of course at least you’re guaranteed to win the Cup if you go that route. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted March 2 Author Share Posted March 2 Nothing is guaranteed. Betting on the approach that has worked twice out of the past 44 years* is not necessarily advised. That it gets to three out of 57 doesn't really help, either. It's not particularly hard to be a middling, bubble playoff team that bounces in and out of the playoffs year after year, but it always "in the hunt" thinking of themselves as "definitely a playoff team." We lived it for over a decade. #newera * lower than a 4 seed winning the Cup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GratefulFlyers Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 8 hours ago, radoran said: Betting on the approach that has worked twice out of the past 44 years* is not necessarily advised. oh good lord you really think this Flyers club - managers coaches and roster - even remotely resembles what Holmgren or Clarke put together year after year? No. You don’t. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted March 3 Author Share Posted March 3 8 hours ago, GratefulFlyers said: oh good lord you really think this Flyers club - managers coaches and roster - even remotely resembles what Holmgren or Clarke put together year after year? No. You don’t. I think if they start doing the "make the playoffs and anything can happen" line, they're no different at all. We'll see whether the BS line was for the players or the fans. "We're not looking to trade Seels" isn't a good place to start. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.