Is Torts the right guy?

[icehole]

3 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

But he loves washed up vets and seems to dislike offensively gifted players.

Are you talking about the Flyers here? I can't think of any washed up vets replacing offensively gifted players on the Flyers since he's been here. In fact, he replaces washed up vets, even if they were just named captain a few weeks prior.

 

Like I said, I don't know what these guys do once they've been "promoted" to a front office position. I still think he can add something, and in the end, you would think Danny and Jonesy get final say.

Edited April 11 by icehole

[ruxpin]

2 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 

You know whats going to extend the rebuild? 

 

NOT rebuilding.

 

You beat me to it.

[Mad Dog]

14 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

yeah, they collapsed at the end

Obviously. But I would pay money to find out *why* they collapsed at the end.  If what we are witnessing is just a normal burn-out, taking into consideration the age and inexperience of the group, coupled with the fact they wee overachieving all season long, I am OK with them collapsing. After all, this is what a true rebuild is supposed to feel like. Problem is, this is the theory that is tempting to believe in.  But I am afraid there is more to it.  My fear is they decided to quit on Torts. And if that's the case, I just can't see him coming back.

[ruxpin]

13 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

Wouldn't it be funny if they promoted Rocky Thompson to HC after kicking Tortorella upstairs.

He does have a good track record of developing young players. 

 

It would be funny because the powerplay was so bad this year and everyone says it's all his fault. 

 

I think the power play exposes what is really wrong with this team, especially over time while changing out players and coaches:  a good power play ultimately requires talent.   The Flyers simply don't have high-end talent.

 

Maybe Konecny, but soberly name a single Flyer that makes PP1 on any of these teams:

Tampa Bay Lightning

Carolina Hurricanes

New York Rangers

Dallas Stars

Edmonton Oilers

Colorado Avalanche

Florida Panthers

Toronto Maple Leafs

Detroit Red Wings

Vancouver Canucks

 

Look, you can hard work your way against teams October to March.   The power play really isn't a big secret in general.  I mean, there's a couple vaguely different structures, but it's a half-court game and it comes down to who can play quickly and at a high level.  This takes skill.   Hard work is great but in a half-court game hard work by players with skill is what it takes.  And 5 on 4, if you have to sacrifice either, you keep the talent.

 

The penalty kill, conversely, takes hard work and some "game smarts."   Torts had them working hard and playing smart for the most part.  This is reflected by their success (until recently) on the penalty kill.

 

But regardless of who the coach is, there really is a small bag of tricks in terms of how to play it or strategy.  The PP coach simply can't manufacture skill level out of thin air.  Apparently, not Rocky Thompson, anyway.  I argue no one can.

Edited April 11 by ruxpin

[OccamsRazor]

I would just like to tune in an enjoy a season...not a game but a whole season.

 

But right now we have to carve it down to just a single win.

 

What if they have already won for the last time and know one even knew it...
 

[ruxpin]

5 minutes ago, Mad Dog said:

Obviously. But I would pay money to find out *why* they collapsed at the end.  If what we are witnessing is just a normal burn-out, taking into consideration the age and inexperience of the group, coupled with the fact they wee overachieving all season long, I am OK with them collapsing. After all, this is what a true rebuild is supposed to feel like. Problem is, this is the theory that is tempting to believe in.  But I am afraid there is more to it.  My fear is they decided to quit on Torts. And if that's the case, I just can't see him coming back.

 

Possible.

I think the reality is that Cindarella's carriage was really a pumpkin all along.

[flyercanuck]

7 minutes ago, icehole said:

Are you talking about the Flyers here? I can't think of any washed up vets replacing offensively gifted players on the Flyers since he's been here. In fact, he replaces washed up vets, even if they were just named captain a few weeks prior.

 

Like I said, I don't know what these guys do once they've been "promoted" to a front office position. I still think he can add something, and in the end, you would think Danny and Jonesy get final say.

 

Erik Johnson 15:37 per game Morgan Frost 13:20

Marc Staal  12:48 per game     Bobby Brink 11:42 

 

Which two of these guys do you think should be given more ice team when "rebuilding"? Two of them are completely washed up and can barely skate...the other two show potential to be something going forward.

 

[ruxpin]

2 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

I would just like to tune in an enjoy a season...not a game but a whole season.

 

But right now we have to carve it down to just a single win.

 

What if they have already won for the last time and know one even knew it...
 

 

This is exactly why you have to have sex at the end of every date like you might accidentally fall groin-first into a thrashing machine the next day.

 

 

[ruxpin]

1 minute ago, flyercanuck said:

 

Erik Johnson 15:37 per game Morgan Frost 13:20

Marc Staal  12:48 per game     Bobby Brink 11:42 

 

Which two of these guys do you think should be given more ice team when "rebuilding"? Two of them are completely washed up and can barely skate...the other two show potential to be something going forward.

 

 

I agree, but it's a better argument if you replace defensemen with defensemen.

Or exchange Erik and Marc with Couturier and Atkinson.

[flyercanuck]

7 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

I agree, but it's a better argument if you replace defensemen with defensemen.

Or exchange Erik and Marc with Couturier and Atkinson.

 

I get that, but it also makes ZERO sense in a rebuild having the likes of those 2 playing more minutes than guys who may have a future on the team. 

But Torts will Torts.

[Mad Dog]

And here we have it.  Torts stays.

 

https://fanrecap.com/confirmed-tortorella-remains-flyers-head-coach-amid-rumors/?utm_source=philadelphia-flyers&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=nhl-mk&fbclid=IwAR3ykchUFgbrbCoS_2v2JQkwVBKXqKc6Q5FnOQpTwnIbDVNVCCMcqgdwVNg_aem_AWQMYj7Z6QsZd0wyNUvwV74WToKEuKJaD7s_qKJU_3R4KCLYXTwzexWXUdoXmssgVpn7uqekqSDOGk-Y07hXIvZT

 

[TropicalFruitGirl26]

6 minutes ago, Mad Dog said:

And here we have it.  Torts stays.

 

https://fanrecap.com/confirmed-tortorella-remains-flyers-head-coach-amid-rumors/?utm_source=philadelphia-flyers&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=nhl-mk&fbclid=IwAR3ykchUFgbrbCoS_2v2JQkwVBKXqKc6Q5FnOQpTwnIbDVNVCCMcqgdwVNg_aem_AWQMYj7Z6QsZd0wyNUvwV74WToKEuKJaD7s_qKJU_3R4KCLYXTwzexWXUdoXmssgVpn7uqekqSDOGk-Y07hXIvZT

 

 

That is a GOOD thing.

I get it.
Torts has a shelf life. Eventually players will tire of his iron hand ways....but that time is not yet here.

This team simply is in NO position to piss n moan about coaching or how tough the rules are, etc.
When they become a galvanized unit....when they become competitive game in, game out...
When they become a team that knows what needs to be done to win games and win series in the playoffs, THEN they earn the right to complain a bit about how the coach might be a bit too 'hands on'.

And it is Torts' job to get them there, as he usually does, and he will obviously need more time to keep pushing these guys in the right direction...or driving guys OUT who don't pack the gear to play on the Flyers in a manner they need to in order to win.

[Mad Dog]

1 hour ago, TropicalFruitGirl26 said:

 

That is a GOOD thing.

I get it.
Torts has a shelf life. Eventually players will tire of his iron hand ways....but that time is not yet here.

This team simply is in NO position to piss n moan about coaching or how tough the rules are, etc.
When they become a galvanized unit....when they become competitive game in, game out...
When they become a team that knows what needs to be done to win games and win series in the playoffs, THEN they earn the right to complain a bit about how the coach might be a bit too 'hands on'.

And it is Torts' job to get them there, as he usually does, and he will obviously need more time to keep pushing these guys in the right direction...or driving guys OUT who don't pack the gear to play on the Flyers in a manner they need to in order to win.

 

I don't disagree with any of that.  But the concern was - and maybe even still is - what if the players in fact did quit on him?  Than it's an unresolvable situation either way.  And Torts did have it in his coaching career, probably more often than not - that he did in fact lose the locker room. But I guess the fact the Flyers announced he is here to stay clears that once for all. I can't imagine they would make that announcement if there was even a shred of a doubt.

[flyercanuck]

That's great! We won't have to change our motto...Two years away from being two years away!   

[OccamsRazor]

9 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

That's great! We won't have to change our motto...Two years away from being two years away!   

 

 

They team we know...

 

The more they change the more they stay the same...

 

[icehole]

On 4/11/2024 at 5:13 PM, flyercanuck said:

 

Erik Johnson 15:37 per game Morgan Frost 13:20

Marc Staal  12:48 per game     Bobby Brink 11:42 

 

Which two of these guys do you think should be given more ice team when "rebuilding"? Two of them are completely washed up and can barely skate...the other two show potential to be something going forward.

 

You're putting two forwards up against to defenseman. That's not an even comparison. Defensmen typically get more ice time.  Plus the Flyers are depleted on defense and they don't have any proven young Defensmen to play ahead of those guys. Maybe Ginning or Attard could play in place of them, but do they make the team better?

 

Staal is often scratched, which he should be. Johnson doesn't impress me, but it's what they have.

[flyercanuck]

25 minutes ago, icehole said:

You're putting two forwards up against to defenseman. That's not an even comparison. Defensmen typically get more ice time.  Plus the Flyers are depleted on defense and they don't have any proven young Defensmen to play ahead of those guys. Maybe Ginning or Attard could play in place of them, but do they make the team better?

 

Staal is often scratched, which he should be. Johnson doesn't impress me, but it's what they have.

 

Staal and Johnson can barely skate. Ginning or Attard can't be much worse...but they may at least have some upside to their game, and their age means they may be part of the team going forward. Which, please God, no! ....Staal and Johnson aren't. But wouldn't surprise me one bit if they were, because "vets".

 

They're "what they have" because they acquired them. Which is pretty f***ing stupid when you're "trying to rebuild".  Innit? 

 

As for the TOI....it's just showing how insane it is to have these dinosaurs playing for a dinosaur on a team run by dinosaurs and people wondering why we suck.

Edited April 15 by flyercanuck

[CoachX]

Reports are that Torts will be back next season. I guess the Flyers think he is the right guy. It’s Funny how they always know what they want in spite of what we think

[radoran]

42 minutes ago, CoachX said:

It’s Funny how they always know what they want in spite of what we think

 

Yep. Just look at ol' 21 skating around with the big A on his sweater.

 

Geniuses.

 

[CoachX]

2 hours ago, radoran said:

 

Yep. Just look at ol' 21 skating around with the big A on his sweater.

 

Geniuses.

 

I think you’re mean

[aziz]

On 4/10/2024 at 2:30 PM, radoran said:

His coaching style asks too much for too long from too many players. It leaves them drained before the playoffs even start. This isn't the first time this has happened. It's a good reason why he has been out of the first round once in the past 10+ years and no further.

 

This is a really interesting idea I'd not thought of before.  Asking for a blue collar 100% effort out of 18 skaters, 60 minutes a game for 82 games is maybe NOT the greatest approach ever.  Let them pace, let the third and fourth lines eat time to cover for slow night from the top 6, allow for slow nights from the top 6.  Allow some players to play a 90 foot game now and then.  Basically, allow the players to see the season as a long journey they don't have to be killing every minute along the way.  And a journey with extra distance to go at the end, should things turn out well.

 

It's an interesting idea.  It makes some sense, and it does explain what we've seen of Tort's results for the last two decades.  Has anyone noticed successful teams coming off the throttle throughout the season in this way?  I can't say that I have, but then I've never really watched for it.  Nor have I followed any particular team other than the flyers game in/game out through a season.  Then again...it could explain that 09-10 finals run.  They definitely took long naps through that season. 

 

Would you accept a team that regularly has players/lines taking shifts/periods/games off, if there was some idea it'd pay off in the long run?

 

Interesting idea.

[flyercanuck]

2 minutes ago, aziz said:

 

This is a really interesting idea I'd not thought of before.  Asking for a blue collar 100% effort out of 18 skaters, 60 minutes a game for 82 games is maybe NOT the greatest approach ever.  Let them pace, let the third and fourth lines eat time to cover for slow night from the top 6, allow for slow nights from the top 6.  Allow some players to play a 90 foot game now and then.  Basically, allow the players to see the season as a long journey they don't have to be killing every minute along the way.  And a journey with extra distance to go at the end, should things turn out well.

 

It's an interesting idea.  It makes some sense, and it does explain what we've seen of Tort's results for the last two decades.  Has anyone noticed successful teams coming off the throttle throughout the season in this way?  I can't say that I have, but then I've never really watched for it.  Nor have I followed any particular team other than the flyers game in/game out through a season.  Then again...it could explain that 09-10 finals run.  They definitely took long naps through that season. 

 

Would you accept a team that regularly has players/lines taking shifts/periods/games off, if there was some idea it'd pay off in the long run?

 

Interesting idea.

 

Well, we've seen this franchise take the better part of this century off, so I'm pretty sure most of us could put up with some games here and there.   

 

Successful teams can do it because they have the talent to overcome it. 

[aziz]

14 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

Successful teams can do it because they have the talent to overcome it. 

 

And that's the twist, right?  A team of jobbers can't have people taking shifts/periods/games off, because then they miss the playoffs.  But if NOT taking those times off inevitably leaves them DOA come May....

 

Is that how it works, though, and I've just never put it together?  Have most cup winners been noted as having a bunch of guys coasting now and then through the season, and the coach unconcerned (or even encouraging)?  Does it mean the real secret to success isn't having an amazing top 6, but having an excellent bottom 6 that can allow the top 6 to conserve energy throughout the season?  Does the same apply to the d-corps?

[aziz]

sorry, double post, because I'm dumb.

Edited April 15 by aziz

[radoran]

24 minutes ago, aziz said:

Have most cup winners been noted as having a bunch of guys coasting now and then through the season,

 

It's not "coasting" as much as it is letting the feel of the season play out. A lot of recent Cup winner have guys who took the year (or months) off on "LTIR" and came back for the playoffs (ask JR lol). See: Vegas, Colorado...

 

If your goal for the season is to "restore culture and accountability" and see what the youth on your roster can do that's a different goal than "make the playoffs."

 

I'm not saying "don't play hard" but playing balls to the wall night in and night out drains a player and a team.

 

It's one reason why nobody "wants" the President's Trophy.

 

You've certainly seen the "extra gear" of the playoffs. Guys ramp up their play, dive further, push harder.

 

Well if you have "lunch pail" guys giving that "extra" not for 16-28 games but for 82 they aren't going to have the "next gear" that other teams are ramping up to.

 

You're already on boost.

 

You also are dealing with a league where the top to bottom talent is miles beyond what it was "back in the day", where the equipment means everyone is faster and the training means they're stronger.

 

It's a different level of game than it was even 20 years ago, much less to the Bullies years.

 

Now, take the example of a guy who hasn't played hockey for over a year coming back from a debilitating back injury and start him off at 20 minutes a night against the top lines of the NHL.

 

He's out of gas 60+ games in to your "playoff run"?

 

Color me surprised.

 

Regardless of whether "my way" (which is far from "mine") works, we know unequivocally that the way they've been doing it DOESN'T.

 

Make the playoffs. Anything can happen.