Lupul takes a stab at Philly

[canoli]

Well alright... I hear you agreeing but in such a begrudging way - lol - that I have to take exception to the "one-dimensional" label. That's pretty harsh imo. Fighters are "one-dimensional," fighters and goons and such - the Shelleys and Janssens of the league. Seriously MD, you don't score 44 goals in the NHL (and 29 and 33 and 36) by being a "one-dimensional" player.

This isn't semantics. There's no such thing as a "one-dimensional" 46-goal scorer. Maybe we're not on the same page as far as the definition of the term, but to me scoring goals -that many goals - takes a helluva lot of hard work and brains - hockey sense. If you tell me he's "the softest 46-goal scorer in the NHL" I'd probably agree with that though! lol.

And I agree with you 100% about the trade: I'd do Carter for Couts straight up over and over again. And we got even more. So - no complaints from me that he's gone. I don't miss him. But I don't hate him either. Whether Flyers' fans know it or not we missed him this year. Not his goals but his FO wins. We were (once again) a pretty bad FO team and Carter was our best man. We need somebody who can fill the gap - someone besides Giroux, who frankly isn't nearly as good as Carter on draws. Of course all 5 men are responsible for FO wins and losses but we need to get better on draws next year.

[Mad Dog]

@canoli

Maybe one-dimensional was a poor choice of words on my part. But I think we can agree that for a center, his playmaking skills were very average. He is a player who is looking to shoot first. And when he *does* try to pass, it looks awkward.

I also agree with you regarding his faceoffs. That's the other area of the game he is good at. And God knows, FO was a huge issue last year for the Flyers. But I don't think Homer is seriously thinking about adding yet another center to the roster..... simply because there are other priorities this summer.

[jammer2]

It sickens me to no end that Carter has a Cup Winning goal on his resume. Van kinda posted what I was thinking, minus his one break out hat trick game, Jeff was pressing throught the playoffs to score. The announcers were constantly refering to his "slump" at the end of the year had carried into the playoffs. I don't recall having a year where 8 goals lead the playoffs in goal scoring. That seems *really* low.

I think LA will put Carter on the top pp to jumpstart him early....but they will realize what we know, he does not utilize his teammates well, loses key puck possession battles down low and misses the net (resulting in many short handed opportunities) frequently. In short, he's not to smart hockey sense wise, and that will inevitably work against his attempt to get back to 40+ goals.

[Flyingswede]

Spot on!

[Flyingswede]

Right, this idea that you give a guy the C with the thought that he'll grow into it is completely ridiculous. They did it with Richards and they did it with Lindros, both were colossal mistakes that prevented the player from developing his game without an unrealistic spotlight. You don't make a guy captain because of his potential to be a good leader, you let him develop that trait and give him the job if/when he's ready and earned it.

SPOT ON!

[Vanflyer]

But of course he did tip-in the Cup-winning goal didn't he? Actually it was a helluva deflection, from a surprising source. That isn't generally Carter's game, hanging on the doorstep looking for tip-ins. But - 2 goals in the deciding game and 1 the GW-er...not too shabby.;

Carter had a HT earlier in the POs but you seem to dismiss it like it's nothing, which is hardly the case. I get your point; he wasn't scoring in every game. But let's not pretend a HT - whenever a guy bags one - is irrelevant.

I like carter and am not on the he is horrible, garbage wagon like some. However, he is pretty much mediocre come playoff time. Granted, much of that playoff time he has had some ailment or another.

I think my point was that Richard and Carter as leaders on Philly do not win the cup.

On your points, sure the hat trick was relevant. It gave LA breathing room while Quick pitched the shutout. If you take the Hattrick game and the clinching game out of the mix, that puts him at 3g, 5A for 8pts and a -2 over the other 18 playoff games he played (and 20 hits and 8blocked shots if we want to look at his play away from the puck). Certainly not horrible, but not what I would call a primary cog. He is what he is. A .5 ppg player in the playoffs and one who can not handle the defensive tightness that comes with the playoff game.

[Vanflyer]

Whether Flyers' fans know it or not we missed him this year. Not his goals but his FO wins. We were (once again) a pretty bad FO team and Carter was our best man.

Not last year he wasnt. While his win percentage was the highest (54.7%), he was the FIFTH option to take a draw (only took 605) behind Richards (1216 / 49.8%), Giroux (1095 / 50%), Briere (820 / 48.2%), Betts (817 / 50.3%). The year prior to that he was the number two go to (1314 at 52.4%). This year he took 774 at 50.8%.

While I do agree that the Flyers need help on the FO, Carters abscence was negligible. Giroux took 1543 at 53.7%. Briere and Couturier split secondary draw assignments (depending on the situation). They tandemed for 1635 draws at 48%.

Given that carter has averaged 689 draws over the past two seasons at a rate of 52.75%, the difference with him playing for the Flyers would have been marginal. In fact, lets use couturier and his 804 draws at 47%. Had Carter been the one to take those draws he would have won 424. Couturier won 378. A difference of 46 faceoffs over the season (.56 faceoff wins more a game with Carter here instead of Couturier). Factor in that Couturier was taking KEY faceoffs for most of the year, versus being a 4th / 5th option like Carter and I would venture carters win % lessons.

To make it worse, that number goes down when comparing minny mouse Briere to Carter. So, I have to say that we need to dispell the thought that we missed Carters faceofs.

Edited June 19, 2012 by Vanflyer

[mojo1917]

If you take the Hattrick game and the clinching game out of the mix, that puts him at 3g, 5A for 8pts and a -2 over the other 18 playoff games he played (and 20 hits and 8blocked shots if we want to look at his play away from the puck). Certainly not horrible, but not what I would call a primary cog. He is what he is. A .5 ppg player in the playoffs and one who can not handle the defensive tightness that comes with the playoff game.

other than the fact that it is a hatrick why do you discount it statistically ? when carter scores it is in streaks and bunches like that, he has many multiple goal games in his career. it seems a little arbitrary or even dishonest to me to omit the guy's multiple goal game.

the streakiness is a big part of why so many get frustrated with him.

and again i'm not going to sea isle to hang out with the guy or anything, it just seemed odd to me that you do not use the hat trick when projecting his scoring over an extended period.

[Vanflyer]

I actually discounted not only the hat trick game, but also the championship game- merely to illustrate a point. It is most definitely statistical manipulation. That manipulation was intended to show that 63% (approx 2/3) of his playoff goals came in two games- with both having an bearing on impact of the game, but neither leading the charge.

LA completely dominated the hat trick game (40 shots / 24 and 26 scoring chances to 10). Hat tricks are great, but that was neither a series or tourny changing trick. In the game clincher, LA was again dominating.

My overall point is that Carter was / is / always will be a second fiddle guy. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. He was not in the top five of a single offensive category in the playoffs. For me, it is not worth the 5m plus he makes.

[flyercanuck]

It sickens me to no end that Carter has a Cup Winning goal on his resume. Van kinda posted what I was thinking, minus his one break out hat trick game, Jeff was pressing throught the playoffs to score. The announcers were constantly refering to his "slump" at the end of the year had carried into the playoffs. I don't recall having a year where 8 goals lead the playoffs in goal scoring. That seems *really* low.

I think LA will put Carter on the top pp to jumpstart him early....but they will realize what we know, he does not utilize his teammates well, loses key puck possession battles down low and misses the net (resulting in many short handed opportunities) frequently. In short, he's not to smart hockey sense wise, and that will inevitably work against his attempt to get back to 40+ goals.

It IS really low.

I also don't recall the last time half the teams in the playoffs had 21 guys playing goaltender.

[Spinorama]

And when he *does* try to pass, it looks awkward.

probably because that pass is a result of him running out of options for himself more than him looking to make a great play for his teammates.