Are the Flyers still a desirable team for free agents ?

[doom88]

oh yeah, mine dropped.....big time. I've been on a high all day with the Parise / Suter news. The news of Carle signing in Tampa struck the panic button. If Bryz is the reason then "oh crap"..... there isn't a chance in hell Weber signs here. There really isn't any d-men in our system to rave about.

........if Bryz thought he was under pressure before, then this team is in a huge pile of trouble.

Same here with that Carle news, and dreading the reliance on Bryz. Not good IMO.

I worry this will seriously piss Giroux off. Jagr was his mentor, and Carle his buddy, and he campaigned to keep both.

Doubt Doan signs here, especially after dealing with Bryz once. He knows what is going on.

[AndyS]

I don't think Bryz is the reason that guys aren't signing here.

Who in the world is the goalie in Tampa again exactly???

Some people just can't take the pressure in Philly. And that is fine with me - let those players leave.

[OccamsRazor]

I mentioned this in the Kenopka , Fedotenko thread, but i feel like it could stand to be its own discussion.

Is Philadelphia a desirable destination for hockey players any more ?

does Bryzgalov hamper our attractiveness ?

does the demanding and passionate fan base scare people off ?

are they afraid of signing a lengthy contract and then being shipped to columbus ?

does the chairman stand too close when he's glad handling with the players ?

or are suter and J bow and hamuis a bunch of mama's boys that want to play closer to home and be with their boyfriends ( not that there's anythign wrong with that) ?

it is interesting to me that many of this bunch of FAs have expressed an interest in NOT playing in Philadelphia... wtf?

That would do it for me. Now way i'm going to Columbus...

[doom88]

I don't think Bryz is the reason that guys aren't signing here.

Who in the world is the goalie in Tampa again exactly???

Some people just can't take the pressure in Philly. And that is fine with me - let those players leave.

Whoever he is, he hasn't had several ex-teammates call him out, doesn't have regular goaltending blunders (to put it lightly), and didn't need a coming to Jesus talk from team leadership - all in less than a calendar year. In short, whoever the TB goalie is, he's more stable and a better teammate.

Oh yeah, that guy is Anders Lindback. Dammit.

[Vanflyer]

"One prominent agent told me before FA began the Flyers would have trouble this summer luring impact players b/c a lot of guys aren't sold on goalie Ilya Bryzgalov's ability to win a Cup and based on what they saw this season in Philly, reinforces their belief."

ding ding ding. We have a winner. What a pisser.

[bryanc]

I mentioned this in the Kenopka , Fedotenko thread, but i feel like it could stand to be its own discussion.

Is Philadelphia a desirable destination for hockey players any more ?

does Bryzgalov hamper our attractiveness ?

does the demanding and passionate fan base scare people off ?

are they afraid of signing a lengthy contract and then being shipped to columbus ?

does the chairman stand too close when he's glad handling with the players ?

or are suter and J bow and hamuis a bunch of mama's boys that want to play closer to home and be with their boyfriends ( not that there's anythign wrong with that) ?

it is interesting to me that many of this bunch of FAs have expressed an interest in NOT playing in Philadelphia... wtf?

All else being equal, I just think it is at a point where these guys want to go to a place where the role they will have on the team fits what they may want. Hamhuis, when he was available Pronger was still the #1 on the team, Timonen a #2, Ham would have been a deep defenseman and that was not what he wanted. Suter and Parise, they wanted to play together and be closer to their homes -- Parise, he will immediately be the team leader in Minny, while in Philly, it's Claude's team. Parise would have probably been on the second line.

Philly is still a desirable location, and while I am sure some players do not want to play here because of fan intensity, I believe most embrace it. If you hear most players comment about fan passion, they hate playing in a city where people could not care less about the team (review some of Voracek's comments after leaving Columbus for a good example).

[bryanc]

Man, Homer should drop all of this Nash talk & trade for Bobby Ryan.

I like Bobby Ryan, but Nash would be a good acquisition. Shame that either player would require a youngster in return, but I watched Nash playing for years while I lived in columbus and the guy is a stud.

[AndyS]

I like Bobby Ryan, but Nash would be a good acquisition. Shame that either player would require a youngster in return, but I watched Nash playing for years while I lived in columbus and the guy is a stud.

Imagine him on the wing with Giroux!

They'd both score 100 points easy.

If Homer could trade for him without giving up the kids (Schenn & Cooter), I'd be OK with it.

[bryanc]

Imagine him on the wing with Giroux!

They'd both score 100 points easy.

If Homer could trade for him without giving up the kids (Schenn & Cooter), I'd be OK with it.

I think those two on the same line would give teams fits. Seriously, I know Nash is a little pricey, but considering what Parise just got, it makes Nash seem a little more reasonable. A lot of people scream to stay away from Nash, but how many have actually watched Columbus play more than a couple of times a season? heck, the only reason I saw him so much is because I am a hockey nut and I lived in Columbus and got free tickets all the time. Nash has unbelievable pressure put on him to be a superstar every single night on a team that is pretty much crap.

[AndyS]

I think those two on the same line would give teams fits. Seriously, I know Nash is a little pricey, but considering what Parise just got, it makes Nash seem a little more reasonable. A lot of people scream to stay away from Nash, but how many have actually watched Columbus play more than a couple of times a season?

Good point.

And I have not watched Nash much, but he always seemed to kill the Ducks when the Jackets came out here.

If Homer trades for him, I will be totally OK with it as long as we keep the kids.

[radoran]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that bouwmeester and hamhuis not coming to Philly had nothing at all to do with Bryz, who was playing in Phoenix at the time...

[Vanflyer]

Shame that either player would require a youngster in return, but I watched Nash playing for years while I lived in columbus and the guy is a stud.

All you need to know about Nash is to watch his international play for Team Canada. When you give him some decent line mates, the guy is nearly unstoppable.

[bryanc]

All you need to know about Nash is to watch his international play for Team Canada. When you give him some decent line mates, the guy is nearly unstoppable.

Indeed.

What blows my mind is how continually bad the Columbus management is. The brass out there has continually screwed things up. They have a great arena, few but passionate fans, and I really liked the city in general. they have no other real sports competition in town, besides the OSU football team, but that is only for 10 saturdays a year.

Nash is a big commodity, indeed, but it seems Columbus is asking for too much in return. Yes Nash can produce, but he has two negatives: the fat, long term contract and two, the no-trade clause, so he has a limited set of teams he has agreed to go to. Out of those teams, how many have the cap space and the players they can ship in return and the willingness to do so?

On any negotiation, one side is always in a position of strength. right now, Columbus is not in that position. They want to get rid of a player who has a huge contract, has asked for a trade, has a no-trade clause... and yet they expect to get 1-2 stud youngsters PLUS high draft picks?

If I were a GM, I might offer a decent young player (for the Flyers I MIGHT dangle Schenn, for sure I would offer Read), and two draft picks -- a #1 next year and a conditional #2 somewhere down the line. That's about all Columbus is going to get. Or maybe a young forward, young D and a pick.

If Columbus gets more than something like the above, I'd be floored.

[DaGreatGazoo]

@radoran

Agreed, Rad. My only thought on the Bryz factor affecting UFA's signing here is this: How many people signed here over the last 10 years when the goaltending was in even WORSE shape. I hate Bryz's inconsistency as much as anyone. He needs to shut his mouth, and play hockey like he did in March. However, he is also potentially better than any goaltender the Flyers have had in years. Other than his 8 year contract-which might scare a few people off(?)- I really can't think playing in front of him, is a reason to NOT sign in Philly.

UNLESS....players that have played with him, are killing him to other players...than it could be possible. Of course, will never know what for sure.

[doom88]

Bryz being a bad teammate is apparently legendary. And, we've got Leighton too.

[orange_crush]

I mentioned this in the Kenopka , Fedotenko thread, but i feel like it could stand to be its own discussion.

Is Philadelphia a desirable destination for hockey players any more ?

does Bryzgalov hamper our attractiveness ?

does the demanding and passionate fan base scare people off ?

are they afraid of signing a lengthy contract and then being shipped to columbus ?

does the chairman stand too close when he's glad handling with the players ?

or are suter and J bow and hamuis a bunch of mama's boys that want to play closer to home and be with their boyfriends ( not that there's anythign wrong with that) ?

it is interesting to me that many of this bunch of FAs have expressed an interest in NOT playing in Philadelphia... wtf?

This is a great question and it looks like NO.... Parise and Suter were offered monster contracts by Homer and passed... Jagr had enough and left...Hamhuis told us to get bent...

I think with the whole Richards/Carter shakeup and the fact we haven't won a cup in almost 40 years...leaves this team undesirable to play for..

[mojo1917]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that bouwmeester and hamhuis not coming to Philly had nothing at all to do with Bryz, who was playing in Phoenix at the time...

way to play it safe there buddy.

those guys haven't exactly lit the league on fire with their new teams so i'm fine with how that worked out,

[radoran]

@radoran

Agreed, Rad. My only thought on the Bryz factor affecting UFA's signing here is this: How many people signed here over the last 10 years when the goaltending was in even WORSE shape. I hate Bryz's inconsistency as much as anyone. He needs to shut his mouth, and play hockey like he did in March. However, he is also potentially better than any goaltender the Flyers have had in years. Other than his 8 year contract-which might scare a few people off(?)- I really can't think playing in front of him, is a reason to NOT sign in Philly.

UNLESS....players that have played with him, are killing him to other players...than it could be possible. Of course, will never know what for sure.

I come at it from the opposite direction - who did we really "lose" on? And, of those, who were really "because of goaltending"?

I hate the frakkin' contract. I think it was amongst the dumbest things the Flyers could have done. But it ain't changing.

I have heard bad on the record things from Adrian Aucoin and Derek Morris - two players who, themselves, aren't known for being such great "team" guys. Not much from anyone else. I would be Very Curious to know what Shane Doan thought of the goalie who helped him into the playoffs for the second time in 10 years.

I have heard that Bryzgalov wanted out of Anaheim to be a starter - I heard that when I thought it would be a good pickup for the Flyers on the waiver wire. I can't remember if in November, 2007 they were worse than Phoenix yet. Of course, Anaheim had just signed Giguere long-term and committed to Hiller, so Bryz was odd-man out.

Take out "Bryz" and put in "Bob" and have "Bob" saying that he feels he's good enough to be a starter and doesn't want to be stuck behind "Bryz" and so he gets shipped out around draft time and compare that to "Bryz" saying that he feels he's good enough to be a starter and doesn't want to be stuck behind "Giguere" and so when a draft time deal falls through he's on waivers and how bad does Bryz come off "as a teammate"?

I believe Bryzgalov can play better. His numbers by the end of the year weren't all that bad and with even just slightly more consistency they will improve dramatically next season.

I just find that people wear Bryz-coloured glasses sometimes and can't see beyond it. There are better, simpler explanations for players deciding to go elsewhere than "the goalie" or "Bryzgalov's contract". For me, too much of the speculation about it is simply pushing the agenda that a goalie with a lifetime .915 SV% in the NHL is incapable of playing goal in the NHL.

[radoran]

way to play it safe there buddy.

those guys haven't exactly lit the league on fire with their new teams so i'm fine with how that worked out,

I am Fine with how that worked out.

I think Very Often teams win by losing on FAs.

I think the Flyers just dodged two $7.5M bullets and I couldn't be happier about it.

[DaGreatGazoo]

@radoran

Maybe I worded my response poorly..I don't think we are losing UFA's due to Bryz either. If anything, we could "get" some UFA interest, since the goalie position is settled finally. If players were willing to sign here before, when goaltending was a 25 ring circus, I think having a defined number 1, could actually entice players to come here. Heck, read this from Rusty...obviously, he didn't have a concern with the Bryz.

Fedotenko, who had nine goals in 73 games with the Rangers last season, said several teams had interest in signing him, "but I felt like I wanted to go to a team where I believe we have a chance to win the Cup."

Whether fans like Bryz, his contract,or him in general, is a separate discusssion....

Read more: http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/flyers/20120705_Holmgren_pleased_with_Flyers_additions.html#ixzz1zr1KnFEc

Watch sports videos you won't find anywhere else

[AndyS]

Indeed.

What blows my mind is how continually bad the Columbus management is. The brass out there has continually screwed things up. They have a great arena, few but passionate fans, and I really liked the city in general. they have no other real sports competition in town, besides the OSU football team, but that is only for 10 saturdays a year.

Nash is a big commodity, indeed, but it seems Columbus is asking for too much in return. Yes Nash can produce, but he has two negatives: the fat, long term contract and two, the no-trade clause, so he has a limited set of teams he has agreed to go to. Out of those teams, how many have the cap space and the players they can ship in return and the willingness to do so?

On any negotiation, one side is always in a position of strength. right now, Columbus is not in that position. They want to get rid of a player who has a huge contract, has asked for a trade, has a no-trade clause... and yet they expect to get 1-2 stud youngsters PLUS high draft picks?

If I were a GM, I might offer a decent young player (for the Flyers I MIGHT dangle Schenn, for sure I would offer Read), and two draft picks -- a #1 next year and a conditional #2 somewhere down the line. That's about all Columbus is going to get. Or maybe a young forward, young D and a pick.

If Columbus gets more than something like the above, I'd be floored.

I would offer Matt Read, a #1 pick, and their #1 draft pick from this year's draft (Laughton).

That isn't a bad haul for a GM in a position of weakness.

[Vanflyer]

If I were a GM, I might offer a decent young player (for the Flyers I MIGHT dangle Schenn, for sure I would offer Read), and two draft picks -- a #1 next year and a conditional #2 somewhere down the line. That's about all Columbus is going to get. Or maybe a young forward, young D and a pick.

The thing with Nash is that the bar has kind of already been established with the Richards / Carter trade. That said (and to your point), I think as a trading GM, you have to establish how much MORE value does nash have above a "carter". The other part of the equation is the cap / salary hit. Nash is the 5th highest paid player in the NHL and while never having the supporting linemates in Columbus that he needs, he has never put up the value in production to support that salary. I don't think a Read + #1 + a conditional #2 gets it done. I do think think a "Read" and a number 1 and two number 2 picks would get it done. Columbus has to realize that no team is going to gut its roster to get Nash. I would do that deal as stated.

[jammer2]

@Vanflyer All reports indicate the Jackets are looking for 2 NHL players + picks and prospects for Nash. Mind you, I believe they will have to tone down those demands, but not by much.

[The Quigster]

How about a couple kidneys!

[radoran]

The thing with Nash is that the bar has kind of already been established with the Richards / Carter trade. That said (and to your point), I think as a trading GM, you have to establish how much MORE value does nash have above a "carter". The other part of the equation is the cap / salary hit. Nash is the 5th highest paid player in the NHL and while never having the supporting linemates in Columbus that he needs, he has never put up the value in production to support that salary. I don't think a Read + #1 + a conditional #2 gets it done. I do think think a "Read" and a number 1 and two number 2 picks would get it done. Columbus has to realize that no team is going to gut its roster to get Nash. I would do that deal as stated.

Gretzky isn't entirely "Gretsky" without Messier and Kurri.

Nash has never played in the NHL with players he has on an international level, where he has been productive. I believe he can be far more productive on the wing of a serious center instead of the giant bowl of crap and Crater that he's been served.

Columbus has no real reason or incentive to deal him. None. He's under contract. He's the captain and face of the team. If he deliberately sucks he hurts no one but himself. He could destroy the entire franchise if he wanted to.

You want Rick Nash then?

Quite frankly, I don't want Rick Nash now. Not because he's not a great player, but because - like Thomas Vanek - he's not worth the money he was offered.