Organization is split on Bryzgalov

[doom88]

@aziz

The 3rd shouldn't even count against the goalie, kind of like an ERA concept, but oh well.

[flyercanuck]

I'll give you that though. Mason does handle the puck better.

He seems to have trouble seeing it, but he handles it real well.

So he's got one more thing going for him than Bryz. Mason had a .903 save percentage last night which is nothing to write home about....and better than Bryz' average the whole year. The guy is ranked SIXTEEITH, not 16th, 60TH in save percentage. 54th in GAA. Next year Mason will make less than 1/3 of Bryz salary for bringing the same mediocre goaltending. So that's TWO things he's got going for him. I guess Bryz has him in the wacky comments department.

Edited April 10, 2013 by flyercanuck

[radoran]

@aziz

The 3rd shouldn't even count against the goalie, kind of like an ERA concept, but oh well.

I was under the impression it was the goalie's job to stop the puck

[doom88]

I was under the impression it was the goalie's job to stop the puck

Hahaha true, but Gus definitely put that one home. Accidents happen, especially with young guys. The first two were on Mason though.

[JackStraw]

I was under the impression it was the goalie's job to stop the puck

You were mis-informed.

[canoli]

Their 2nd goal Grabner took a feed coming into the slot (all alone) - Huskins is standing in front of Mason setting a nice screen ...Grabner takes the feed and rips it home. I can't blame Mason *too* much for that goal and I would not have blamed Bryzgalov either. Give a good shooter the puck in the slot, add a nice little screen and chances are he's finding the back of the net.

Their 1st goal was Moulson working past or "through" Huskins and it was not good (to be nice about it) ...It was one you expect your goaltender to stop I think.

[albertaflyer]

Lavy destroyed the chemistry with chronic line juggling. Well, whatever was left after half the team went to the infirmary.

I do believe that Lavy is gone. I think he know's it. He was showing some serious emotion on the bench. If I was the Flyers I would go for Tippett. He's not resigned by Phoenix and I believe he wants out of that situation.

[albertaflyer]

Their 2nd goal Grabner took a feed coming into the slot (all alone) - Huskins is standing in front of Mason setting a nice screen ...Grabner takes the feed and rips it home. I can't blame Mason *too* much for that goal and I would not have blamed Bryzgalov either. Give a good shooter the puck in the slot, add a nice little screen and chances are he's finding the back of the net.

Their 1st goal was Moulson working past or "through" Huskins and it was not good (to be nice about it) ...It was one you expect your goaltender to stop I think.

The first goal was deflected by Gervais. Actually moved quite a bit. You could tell by Mason's reaction. You couldn't tell at first but when they showed the replay from behind you could see it. Make that a -16 for Gervais.

[canoli]

hmm interesting....brb

okay just checked it out again - maybe the puck touches Gervais' stick but I don't much of a deflection. It sure doesn't move left or right but maybe up... still think Mason shoulda had it.

I know he's rusty, new team etc. But I bet he's not real happy about that goal.

[edit: btw wtf is Gervais doing double-teaming Boyes coming into the zone, leaving his man Moulson alone? Huskins has Boyes, he's playing him fine, staying in front of him...and then suddenly Gervais just inexplicably leaves Moulson to go double-team Boyes. Makes no sense.]

Edited April 10, 2013 by canoli

[Vanflyer]

You see if you can swing the Bernier deal.

don't look now, but Bernier is playing better than Quick.

[King Knut]

Good. Go for him. Quick starts a 10 year contract at 6million per next season. He doesn't have a NMC to my knowledge... which is bad knews because if the Kings staff knows the Flyers staff as well as they should, they'll know that they can unload Quick on us in a year or two when we're desperate again and just go with what will at that point be a much cheaper Bernier.

But, if the Flyers can swing a deal for Bernier without giving away too much, then I say go for it.

Cooter is too much IMHO but only because he's so young. Giroux is Giroux and you can't really give him away even if he's mediocre right now. Jake is playing well too and looks to have finally come into his own. Other than that, I'm not sure there are any sacred cows on this team. They're too terrible to think of that way.

If last night had happened before the deadline, I'd trade two of them this morning just to make a point to the rest.

Long story short, Homer gets this deal done and Bryz and his big fat contract out of town (no matter whether you think Bryz is the anti-christ or merely an okay goalie on a ****ty ****ty team) then he might start to redeem himself.

If he can't he's got to be replaced post haste. he's make too many tragic mistakes. I don't care whether Snyder "made him do it" there's just a lot of STUPID in Homer's wake the past two and a half years.

don't look now, but Bernier is playing better than Quick.

[King Knut]

Agreed 100% on everything. At first Homer did so many things well, but the last two years he's just made a fool of himself.

this team flat out sucks period, no goalie will matter, now snider has get rid of homer not because of last offeseason, but because of the lously trades he's made that turned a cup team into a disaster, he destroyed the chemistry of this team.

[Vanflyer]

but because of the lously trades he's made that turned a cup team into a disaster, he destroyed the chemistry of this team.

Can you be specific on the trades?? I am neither disagreeing on agreeing. I am just wondering which ones you believed destroyed this team?

[King Knut]

My beef with Lavy has far more to do with the fact that his forwards have no idea what to do with themselves when their in the opponent's zone.

This might have something to do with line juggling, but I'm of a mind that it doesnt matter who your linemate is, if you're not moving your skates and getting open, you're a bufoon. So you played with Jake and he used to skate that way with a puck down low and now Girux skates this way... How does that explain you not skating ANYWHERE and letting a mediocre RW cover you all night without a fight?

If I didn't know any better I'd say this team wasn't being coached at all. Laviolette looks like a fool, Homer looks like a fool, The players ALL look like fools. The whole thing is just a big joke and we're butt of that joke.

Lavy destroyed the chemistry with chronic line juggling. Well, whatever was left after half the team went to the infirmary.

[King Knut]

Both he and Lavy owe the fans an explanation.

Homer has to stand up to Snyder on this Bryzgalov issue and Lavvy has to explain to us why his team is so woefully unprepared and unmotivated.

he has this summer to redeem himself for a bad play at bat.

[King Knut]

I appreciate your words and your reasoned response, but essentially you and I have the same position.

The zealots hate him soooo much that by comparison I seem to love him and think he's great.

I don't. I think he's fine. As you say... average maybe. I may think he's maybe slightly above average. This sends them into a tizzy.

BUT ever time I argue this point (argue sounds weird because how can you adamantly proclaim, "THIS PLAYER IS OKAY AT BEST DAMN IT!!!" I also ultimately conclude that his abilities are not worth what his contract is doing to the team's ability to fill out the roster.

Paying him what they are and for as long as they are committed to paying it has cost them on Carle, Jagr, maybe even Weber and who knows what else.

It's killed their abilityto make a move to fill out the team earlier this year when they knew they were in trouble.

I don't want Bryzgalov here. Period.

I just don't think he's as bad as everyone is saying because they seem to be scapegoating him for all the team's woes. I contend that the team is hopeless right now no matter who is backstopping them... but getting rid of him frees them up to try to do something about that.

Don't let the intensity of their hatred fool you on my position. keeping Bryz hurts the team. I just don't think that his play on the ice is the way it hurts them the worst. Others do. I'm more moderate in my criticism of his play and I think they're going a little overboard.

If your point is that most folks are going overboard in their criticism, so what? That's not support for the position that Bryz has been good.

[toughfighter83]

I appreciate your words and your reasoned response, but essentially you and I have the same position.

The zealots hate him soooo much that by comparison I seem to love him and think he's great.

I don't. I think he's fine. As you say... average maybe. I may think he's maybe slightly above average. This sends them into a tizzy.

BUT ever time I argue this point (argue sounds weird because how can you adamantly proclaim, "THIS PLAYER IS OKAY AT BEST DAMN IT!!!" I also ultimately conclude that his abilities are not worth what his contract is doing to the team's ability to fill out the roster.

Paying him what they are and for as long as they are committed to paying it has cost them on Carle, Jagr, maybe even Weber and who knows what else.

It's killed their abilityto make a move to fill out the team earlier this year when they knew they were in trouble.

I don't want Bryzgalov here. Period.

I just don't think he's as bad as everyone is saying because they seem to be scapegoating him for all the team's woes. I contend that the team is hopeless right now no matter who is backstopping them... but getting rid of him frees them up to try to do something about that.

Don't let the intensity of their hatred fool you on my position. keeping Bryz hurts the team. I just don't think that his play on the ice is the way it hurts them the worst. Others do. I'm more moderate in my criticism of his play and I think they're going a little overboard.

i understand about the money but what options are out there? because this team needs a proven starter and not backup goalies turning into starters, the flyers need a proven starter goaltender, that's why they got bryz because he was a starter, experience is important.

[King Knut]

He wasn't watching the puck. Grabner used the defender to mask his move, but it wasn't a screen, Mason seemed to react to the defender rather than the shooter. Got beat on the glove hand again. I would think it was one most goalies would like to have back.

The third goal was total keystone cops. I'm glad Mason got to see what he's gotten himself into.

I saw the first goal and the third. missed the second. first was a bad goal. third was unlucky. second was bad?

[King Knut]

I'm not questioning you, I don't know much about Tippett. What do you like about him?

I tend to like Lavy, but as a coach he seems to be quite indicative of what's wrong with the Flyers Management in general for the past 17 or 18 years... they're always about ten years behind the curve.

Lavy's way of coaching doesn't succeed in today's NHL anymore. I wish it did. I think he's a good guy. He doesn't seem to be able to help this team win without Pronger in the lineup. That's a problem because Pronger's never coming back.

I do believe that Lavy is gone. I think he know's it. He was showing some serious emotion on the bench. If I was the Flyers I would go for Tippett. He's not resigned by Phoenix and I believe he wants out of that situation.

[aziz]

@King Knut

I just don't think he's as bad as everyone is saying because they seem to be scapegoating him for all the team's woes

This is the thing. Not only do you disagree with some of us as to how bad he is, but you dismiss our negative opinion as scapegoating. This is either going to piss people off right away, or will encourage them to clarify why they feel the way they do, show you what it is based on and how we feel it is a legitimate conclusion.

When you counter from there with statements like bryzgalov is a highly mobile goaltender and telling people they can't possibly have the background needed to make their own evaluation....you are going to have people figuring you are a touchy fanboy.

[aziz]

@toughfighter83

, the flyers need a proven starter goaltender, that's why they got bryz because he was a starter, experience is important.

How important is that experience if it is in sucking? You have a goalie who really knows how to be terrible, is an old hand at it, why is that better than someone who is new to the concept?

[King Knut]

You may be right, but that's just not going to be possible. They need someone who can get the job done and once in a while steal one for them.

I like having Mason around for some sense of stability, but I don't think they're going to be able to go after a "proven starter" and nor do I think they should.

Going after a proven starter in Bryz didn't work for whatever reason of many you want to choose.

They need talent. There are plenty of teams with "unproven" starters doing quite well.

If you try to steal a Luongo or a Lundqvist by the time you know they're good, they're either A) Past their prime B) Too expensive C) Unavailably locked up by the team that grew them from a young talent or D) all of the above.

They're going to have to grow some talent. I thought that was the point of bringing in Jeff Reese a few years ago. I guess I was wrong about that. I didn't think Bobrovsky was a starter yet, but shipping him away made ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE.

Likewise, right now I think what makes the most sense is to bring in someone unproven but with a lot of talent and let them prove themself. Wouldn't it be better to have a mediocre goalie with upside and growth potential who doesn't cost so much like Bobrovsky was than a goalie with nowhere left to go but down and who costs way too much like Bryzgalov?

Bernier is the rare case where I think you can assume he's got more than just potential already going for him. He's an RFA on a team that just committed to a big fat deal to their starter. It might be a good time to make a move on him.

If you keep Mason (another average guy) you don't have to put the weight of the world on Bernier when he comes in. Let them battle it out in camp and over the first 1/3 of the season. But assume in the back of your head that Bernier will win out and Mason can assume the role he was meant to play as backup.

This team hasn't known what to do with it's goalies since they sent Hextall away for Lindros. It's been pretty pathetic. I say commit to a guy who still has his best days in front of him (unlike Esche, Biron, Hackett, Emery, Boosh, Leighton or Bryzgalov) and help him grow into the starter you want instead of trying to pluck the starter you want from the empty trash bins of other teams.

As an aside, I don't want to sound to harsh against Emery. I still think if he hadn't had catastrophic bone failure in his hip, we'd have beaten the damn Blackhawks that year.

i understand about the money but what options are out there? because this team needs a proven starter and not backup goalies turning into starters, the flyers need a proven starter goaltender, that's why they got bryz because he was a starter, experience is important.

[toughfighter83]

You may be right, but that's just not going to be possible. They need someone who can get the job done and once in a while steal one for them.

I like having Mason around for some sense of stability, but I don't think they're going to be able to go after a "proven starter" and nor do I think they should.

Going after a proven starter in Bryz didn't work for whatever reason of many you want to choose.

They need talent. There are plenty of teams with "unproven" starters doing quite well.

If you try to steal a Luongo or a Lundqvist by the time you know they're good, they're either A) Past their prime B) Too expensive C) Unavailably locked up by the team that grew them from a young talent or D) all of the above.

They're going to have to grow some talent. I thought that was the point of bringing in Jeff Reese a few years ago. I guess I was wrong about that. I didn't think Bobrovsky was a starter yet, but shipping him away made ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE.

Likewise, right now I think what makes the most sense is to bring in someone unproven but with a lot of talent and let them prove themself. Wouldn't it be better to have a mediocre goalie with upside and growth potential who doesn't cost so much like Bobrovsky was than a goalie with nowhere left to go but down and who costs way too much like Bryzgalov?

Bernier is the rare case where I think you can assume he's got more than just potential already going for him. He's an RFA on a team that just committed to a big fat deal to their starter. It might be a good time to make a move on him.

If you keep Mason (another average guy) you don't have to put the weight of the world on Bernier when he comes in. Let them battle it out in camp and over the first 1/3 of the season. But assume in the back of your head that Bernier will win out and Mason can assume the role he was meant to play as backup.

This team hasn't known what to do with it's goalies since they sent Hextall away for Lindros. It's been pretty pathetic. I say commit to a guy who still has his best days in front of him (unlike Esche, Biron, Hackett, Emery, Boosh, Leighton or Bryzgalov) and help him grow into the starter you want instead of trying to pluck the starter you want from the empty trash bins of other teams.

As an aside, I don't want to sound to harsh against Emery. I still think if he hadn't had catastrophic bone failure in his hip, we'd have beaten the damn Blackhawks that year.

i understand what your saying, but you cant just develop an unknown into a starter overnight, they did it with bob look what happened he wasnt ready, he got too much pressure and he fell off the map, you have to develop them the right way, as a backup for a few years and then he becomes the starter, look at bob, it took him two years to become proven starter, like i said unless they get a proven young starter right now then i would get rid of bryz but unforunately they dont have options, you dont want to hear it this, but realistically this team might be stuck with him unless mason can prove it next year which i doubt or another young nhl proven starter falls their way.

[Dynamo 47]

I've defended Bryz in the past but I cannot do it any longer. I tried to justify some of his performance (or lack there of) based on injuries, rookies, etc.

I was a fan of Bobrovsky and thought the team gave up on him too early.

Mason should be a capable starter and if we amnesty Bryz and Briere we free up a significant amount of cap space going forward.

I just think Bryz does not have the mental makeup or mindset to be successful in Philly. Sure he could go to Florida and deliver stats but in the limelight he wilts under the pressure.

He just hasn't shown me the mental toughness and consistency to be the long term solution in goal.

[King Knut]

No you can't. It's going to take two years.

Bernier might take less time because he's essentially had those two years as backup in LA. Two years ago, it was sort of a toss up for them as to whether their goalie of the future would be Quick or Bernier. Quick had a bit more experience and fell into the roll of starter faster. Now it's Bernier's time to slide into that roll, he just needs the opportunity and he won't be getting it in LA unless the kings are cool spending 6 million for a backup for the next 10 years.

If they go another direction though, you're right. It is going to take a few years and even then they'll be getting lucky if it pans out. (Niittymaki anyone?)

That's how it kind of has to go... OR you can play it like the blackhawks and just bank on one or another youngster having a great year and then dump one as an RFA afterwards.

but you cant just develop an unknown into a starter overnight,