If Pens lose series..Is Blysma fired?

[B21]

Absolutely. Just like Laviolette's SCF team was still a byproduct of Stevens. It still shouldn't diminish the accomplishment. Put another way, they were certainly not winning a Cup with Therrien.

And whose fault is that? Shero... not Bylsma. Going all in doesn't really guarantee anything, and if it doesn't work, it's a reflection on the GM more than anything else.

I agree with everything you're saying, but an ECF loss - to me - doesn't seem like a fire-able offense.

In any case, if you want more Cups in the Crosby window, maybe you look at another coach. But I would think he's earned at least another season.

Shero? Not at all. He put together a complete team that should be performing a lot better than it is. That is on the coach. Not the GM. On the surface, no...an ECF is not a firable offense...if they lose in 6 or 7 and the games are close. But it's 0-2 already and they have been outscored 9-1.

[B21]

Yeah, I see what you mean. I know that realistically, the coach will get the heat and probably the ax. But Mario could fire Shero for those moves (assuming of course that the Bruins win the series which is far from over). I know he won't, you know he won't, and Shero knows he won't. But really, at the end of the day, he made those moves and stuck Bylsma with them.

Just like Snomer (the Snider and Homer beast) saddled Laviolette with Bryzgalov... yet we all know who will pay the price.

Did you really have an issue when he brought these guys in? I don't recall anyone...forum, media, fans...saying Shero blew this one by adding these guys. If the team Shero put together was not a heavy favorite, being down 0-2 is what should be expected then, right?

[brelic]

Shero? Not at all. He put together a complete team that should be performing a lot better than it is.

The team was performing quite well without adding anyone. Pens were 28-9 (.757 win%) before adding Morrow, Iginla, and Murray. I'd say that's a team that doesn't need help. But Shero made changes for the sake of making changes, and went 8-3 (.727) after the deadline. Slightly worse, but at the end of the day, virtually the same.

Maybe it's due to Bylsma, maybe not. It's really hard to tell, and even harder when you're in the ECF. Even getting swept 4-0 by Boston doesn't mean it was Bylsma's fault. Boston might just have Pittsburgh's number this year, and have understood how to beat them.

Haha, in the end, I'm not really arguing with you. I *know* coaches get blamed for these things. And a coach who can't win with the ridiculously stacked Pens might just have to pay the price to stave off embarrassment.

[brelic]

Did you really have an issue when he brought these guys in? I don't recall anyone...forum, media, fans...saying Shero blew this one by adding these guys. If the team Shero put together was not a heavy favorite, being down 0-2 is what should be expected then, right?

Ha! No, of course I had no issue (other than being a wee bit jealous)! It was a pretty big coup for Shero to bring in that kind of talent and veteran presence. I don't really understand why he did it considering the Pens' dominance... but no one would have said they were bad moves.

[B21]

The team was performing quite well without adding anyone. Pens were 28-9 (.757 win%) before adding Morrow, Iginla, and Murray. I'd say that's a team that doesn't need help. But Shero made changes for the sake of making changes, and went 8-3 (.727) after the deadline. Slightly worse, but at the end of the day, virtually the same.

Maybe it's due to Bylsma, maybe not. It's really hard to tell, and even harder when you're in the ECF. Even getting swept 4-0 by Boston doesn't mean it was Bylsma's fault. Boston might just have Pittsburgh's number this year, and have understood how to beat them.

Haha, in the end, I'm not really arguing with you. I *know* coaches get blamed for these things. And a coach who can't win with the ridiculously stacked Pens might just have to pay the price to stave off embarrassment.

All good points except this time it really does appear to be the coach's fault. We aren't talking about some undermanned team. You said it yourseld....stacked. Shouldn't a stacked team be playing better than this? We all seem to agree that the talent is there (that's the GM's job) but something else (effort? strategy) is missing. That's the coach's job.

Yeah - they were cruising in the regular season but that's not a reason not to add for the playoffs when you can. No patsies on the scheduled now.

[DaGreatGazoo]

I almost posted this earlier, but didn't...it seems appropriate now. Anyone remember Uncle Don's rant on HNIC, just after those deals. Saying players were pissed about them(didn't say WHICH players). It wrecked the room, players didn't trust Shero, blah blah blah.....

Any cause/effect here? Lack of chemistry/lack of unity/lack of whatever?

Don't watch the Pens enough to be able to form a before/after opinion.

[mojo1917]

the only piece i see that may have come from the department of redundancy department again would be Brendan Morrow, Murray was a good acquisition to add some defense to the defense corps and crap who wouldn't want to have Iginla on their team and give up diddly / pooh to bring him to town.

Morrow and Inginla were also added I imagine to add some veteran gravitas to the room. problem is they've had just 10 regular season games to adjust and by now, 2 months on, the roles have been set, they're not coming in and joining 87 , 71, 14 and 44 on the leadership group. they're going to be the good soldiers and follow the reigning hart trophy winner , best player in the league and biggest forehead's (Kunitz) lead.

they are not going to come in to the new situation stand up and say Sid you need to calm the f down. just not going to happen.

So Blysma needs to lead, maybe he's too close the way Stevens was in PHI to his calder corps of players and needs to go so there is a different voice.

what's clear is there is a leadership void at the moment and the coach needs to fix it or his firing will be the solution.

[radoran]

I almost posted this earlier, but didn't...it seems appropriate now. Anyone remember Uncle Don's rant on HNIC, just after those deals. Saying players were pissed about them(didn't say WHICH players). It wrecked the room, players didn't trust Shero, blah blah blah.....

Any cause/effect here? Lack of chemistry/lack of unity/lack of whatever?

Don't watch the Pens enough to be able to form a before/after opinion.

A man does remember that, but a man does consider a source...

The amazing thing is that the Pens really gave up bubkus to pick up Iginla/Morrow/Murray.

Morrow was a minor leaguer and a pick

Murray was two second round picks

Iginla was a pick and two prospects

WHAT does the team get all flustered and bothered about this for? WHO "lost out" in adding three capable vets to the lineup?

I think that chemistry is a valid point, but this IS the Eastern Conference Finals. Very Odd place for it to suddenly rear its ugly head.

[brelic]

Shouldn't a stacked team be playing better than this? We all seem to agree that the talent is there (that's the GM's job) but something else (effort? strategy) is missing. That's the coach's job.

Yes, absolutely. It comes to asking why Shero added those players in the first place. There was nothing wrong with the Pens.

The Hawks did nothing. Well, that's not true, they added Handzus for 3rd/4th line depth. But that's it. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

So, Shero added 3 big pieces - two of them former team captains. They did fine in the final 10 games of the regular season with the new guys... but then comes crunch time, and maybe the new guys haven't really gelled with the team yet. When the competition gets tougher, the new guys don't quite have the history and camraderie that the rest of the team has, going through the ups and downs together, knowing they've been through this before together, and have climbed out of it. Plain and simple, they're high prized acquisitions, not teammates. At least not yet.

Or, maybe none of that, and Bylsma just isn't the right coach anymore.

Bring on TORTS!

[murraycraven]

A man does remember that, but a man does consider a source...

The amazing thing is that the Pens really gave up bubkus to pick up Iginla/Morrow/Murray.

Morrow was a minor leaguer and a pick

Murray was two second round picks

Iginla was a pick and two prospects

WHAT does the team get all flustered and bothered about this for? WHO "lost out" in adding three capable vets to the lineup?

I think that chemistry is a valid point, but this IS the Eastern Conference Finals. Very Odd place for it to suddenly rear its ugly head.

I have to be honest here and say that I think the Team leadership needs to be questioned the heaviest. Look no further than this series and last year's series with the Flyers. I really think this Team has taken on the persona of Crosby - the person and the leader. He is the epitome of a whiner when things do not go his way. He is a pouter when things are not going well and the Team seems to have the same persona. In the old days of the NHL he would have been thumped for some of his actions. He is the most hated player in the NHL for a reason. I love his talent and respect his talent but I hate his "game." Somone in that leadership group needs to step up and shoulder some of the blame.

I think this Team thinks they can just show up and win games - they have an entitlement about them. Crosby is the same way and I think this attitude permeates the Team. They are undisciplined punks playing like they deserve to win. Every loss he has an attitude during interviews and he never puts anything upon himself. Sometimes you need to shoulder the blame as a Captain.

If he is dictating lines b/c he likes to play with certain players than it just proves his immaturity. Play where the Coach puts you and give a 100% effort no matter what - stop whining and play for the sweater on your shoulders.

I really truly feel that Crosby is part of the issue and I think he is a spoiled brat.

Not hating - just providing my opinion but I think there is merit to the argument.

Edited June 4, 2013 by murraycraven

[DaGreatGazoo]

A man does remember that, but a man does consider a source...

The amazing thing is that the Pens really gave up bubkus to pick up Iginla/Morrow/Murray.

Morrow was a minor leaguer and a pick

Murray was two second round picks

Iginla was a pick and two prospects

WHAT does the team get all flustered and bothered about this for? WHO "lost out" in adding three capable vets to the lineup?

I think that chemistry is a valid point, but this IS the Eastern Conference Finals. Very Odd place for it to suddenly rear its ugly head.

I was thinking more of their overall playoff performance. No way should the Isles series have gone 7 games. They had a good matchup/series with Ottawa, and now they are struggling with Boston. Most of their acquired players didn't play much with Crosby/Malkin/etc, IIRC, due to various injuries.

[B21]

A man does remember that, but a man does consider a source...

The amazing thing is that the Pens really gave up bubkus to pick up Iginla/Morrow/Murray.

Morrow was a minor leaguer and a pick

Murray was two second round picks

Iginla was a pick and two prospects

WHAT does the team get all flustered and bothered about this for? WHO "lost out" in adding three capable vets to the lineup?

I think that chemistry is a valid point, but this IS the Eastern Conference Finals. Very Odd place for it to suddenly rear its ugly head.

This (you are on a roll).

Murray replaced Bortuzzo and turned Engelland/Eaton into a "platoon".

Morrow replaced Glass.

Iginla replaced Bennett.

I think we all make those moves if given the chance (especially with the asking price) and those who replaced take it in stride.

Little smoke. No fire on the Cherry theory.

Chemistry, maybe. But like you said, why now? Morrow is on the 3rd D pairing. Can't be lack of chemistry with him causing the breakdowns that are the fault of the first two parings. Chemistry wasn't the reason for Sid's four giveaways. The power play (with Iginla) seemed to be clicking in the regular season and first two rounds.

[B21]

Yes, absolutely. It comes to asking why Shero added those players in the first place. There was nothing wrong with the Pens.

The Hawks did nothing. Well, that's not true, they added Handzus for 3rd/4th line depth. But that's it. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

So, Shero added 3 big pieces - two of them former team captains. They did fine in the final 10 games of the regular season with the new guys... but then comes crunch time, and maybe the new guys haven't really gelled with the team yet. When the competition gets tougher, the new guys don't quite have the history and camraderie that the rest of the team has, going through the ups and downs together, knowing they've been through this before together, and have climbed out of it. Plain and simple, they're high prized acquisitions, not teammates. At least not yet.

Or, maybe none of that, and Bylsma just isn't the right coach anymore.

Bring on TORTS!

Meh. They did OK at 1-1 and 2-2 agaisnt the Isles. Lesser opponent. Still crunch time. Ditto the Sens. Look who those guys replaced. Those moves were "no brainers" considering the asking prices.

Bennet was OK but he was still being moved among the lines including the spot alongside Malkin and Neal (where Iginla now plays). Bortuzzo is a nice younf D man but not the physical presence Murray is (a role Orpik was struggling in at the time). Morrow over Glass?

Fire Bylsma now! Hire Tor....not.

Scotty Bowman is only 79 and looks real healthy. Just sayin'.

[brelic]

First, to the guy that said "bring on Torts", are you crazy? He ruined a talented Rangers team

Exactly. As a Flyers fan, I'm all for it!!!

[brelic]

Meh. They did OK at 1-1 and 2-2 agaisnt the Isles. Lesser opponent. Still crunch time. Ditto the Sens. Look who those guys replaced. Those moves were "no brainers" considering the asking prices.

Bennet was OK but he was still being moved among the lines including the spot alongside Malkin and Neal (where Iginla now plays). Bortuzzo is a nice younf D man but not the physical presence Murray is (a role Orpik was struggling in at the time). Morrow over Glass?

Fire Bylsma now! Hire Tor....not.

Scotty Bowman is only 79 and looks real healthy. Just sayin'.

It might be a simple as the whole not being greater than the sum of its parts.

Or like many have stated, it could be Bylsma. It could also be Crosby's attitude, whatever that means.

But the simplest explanation is that Boston, right here, right now, is the better team. Fans and analysts too often look for causes and problems that just aren't there. I'm pretty guilty of that!!

[radoran]

Exactly. As a Flyers fan, I'm all for it!!!

Tortorella took over the Rags in 2009 and they were 4th in the Atlantic his first full season. Since then they went 3rd, 1st, 2nd in the Atlantic, made the Conference Final and lost in the Second Round this season.

Pleased to be 'splaining how he "ruined a talented Rangers team."

[brelic]

Tortorella took over the Rags in 2009 and they were 4th in the Atlantic his first full season. Since then they went 3rd, 1st, 2nd in the Atlantic, made the Conference Final and lost in the Second Round this season.

Pleased to be 'splaining how he "ruined a talented Rangers team."

Quit bringing statistics into the discussion!

[radoran]

I honestly wouldn't like to see Tortorella behind the Pens bench. He might put the fear of God into Crosby and get his head into the game on the ice.

I know he has the rep as a short term guy hard on players. I do believe that's exactly what this Pens team needs. They don't need someone holding their hand and telling them it will be all right. They need someone telling them their goddamn hair is on fire and the other team has a bottle of gasoline.

[B21]

I honestly wouldn't like to see Tortorella behind the Pens bench. He might put the fear of God into Crosby and get his head into the game on the ice.

I know he has the rep as a short term guy hard on players. I do believe that's exactly what this Pens team needs. They don't need someone holding their hand and telling them it will be all right. They need someone telling them their goddamn hair is on fire and the other team has a bottle of gasoline.

Unfortunately true. I've gone too far down the 'Torts is a blowhard..." road to want him as a coach though.

Mike Keenan on the other hand...

[radoran]

I think Tortorella has lost his touch just like Keenan did years back. He is a dinosaur.

Pretty impressive for a "dinosaur" to get a team to the Conference Final. Last year.

[murraycraven]

That Dino will have no problem finding a job...

[Polaris922]

Crosby has one of the best work ethics in the NHL. His teammates will tell you as much, and that means something. I think the Senators series let them coast a little... Add 8 days off... Perhaps blaming game one on bad bounces...

They have to realize after game two what the game is now. I bet they win tonight. I'm more worried about them laying off game four when they do...

[Mad Dog]

I bet they win tonight.

They better. We both know if they lose tonight, they are toast. I think they are anyway, but if they win tonight, they have at least a chance. And I *do* think they win tonight as well.

[flyercanuck]

I honestly wouldn't like to see Tortorella behind the Pens bench. He might put the fear of God into Crosby and get his head into the game on the ice.

I know he has the rep as a short term guy hard on players. I do believe that's exactly what this Pens team needs. They don't need someone holding their hand and telling them it will be all right. They need someone telling them their goddamn hair is on fire and the other team has a bottle of gasoline.

Yep, Tortellinni is the kind of guy who just might Gunnery Sargent Hartman the Pens to a cup...then get fired the following year.

[radoran]

But you must admit he screwed up the Rangers this year.

I think the Rangers screwed up the Rangers. They had a squad that got to the ECFs and they did some major surgery to it so they could bring in Rick Nash (who has never won anything).

I don't see how you blame it all on Tortorella. I was very surprised they fired him. Happy, even.