New Body Checking Rules ?

[hf101]

Earlier Darren Dreger tweeted:

2\3rds approval among federations needed to pass motion. If that happens final vote tomorrow will determine status of bodychecking change.

Has anyone seen any info on this?

[sarsippius]

I read a blurb on getting rid of body checking in pee wee 11/12 year olds, not sure that"s what he's referring to though

[doom88]

No clue, but I'm interested.

[sarsippius]

http://www.ctvnews.ca/sports/hockey-canada-could-ban-bodychecking-for-peewee-players-1.1296372

Hockey Canada could ban bodychecking for peewee players

CTV News.ca Staff

Published Friday, May 24, 2013 10:23PM EDT

Last Updated Friday, May 24, 2013 10:31PM EDT

Pre-teen hockey players across Canada could soon be banned from bodychecking.

Delegates at Hockey Canada’s annual general meeting in Charlottetown are expected to vote this weekend on whether to eliminate the practice for peewee players – mostly 11- to 12-year-olds – as has been done in Alberta, Nova Scotia and Quebec.

There has long been disagreement over whether to allow hitting among young hockey players.

Edited May 25, 2013 by sarsippius

[hf101]

Thanks @sarsippius,

Some interesting tweets from this topic today.

From ruining the sport of hockey --> avoiding possible youth concussions.

[sarsippius]

@hf101

I'm really torn on this. Like Theo Fluery said, you do this and you're raising a crop of hockey players that don't learn to keep their heads up. But on the other hand, how can you argue against protecting young kids as they learn the game? Athletes at every age are bigger, stronger, faster, and wearing literally five times the body armor as players 40 years ago, the risk of concussion is exponentially higher.

It's the same debate that we've seen take the forefront in football (albeit mostly because the NFL is trying save its own butt from lawsuits), and open, thoughtful dialogue is never a bad thing.

[DaGreatGazoo]

FWIW...USA Hockey already enacted this ban several years ago. You can't get until the Bantam age in the US.

[sarsippius]

@DaGreatGazoo

I did not know that. Now Canada does too:

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/story/2013/05/25/sp-hockey-canada-body-checking-pee-wee.html

Hockey Canada votes to ban bodychecking in peewee hockey

The game of hockey will soon change for peewee-level players across the country after a vote by Hockey Canada on Saturday that banned bodychecking.

Hockey Canada's board of directors overwhelmingly voted to eliminate bodychecking for peewee players at its annual general meeting in Charlottetown on Saturday, with only the Saskatchewan Hockey Association voting against.

The decision comes in the same month that both Hockey Alberta and Hockey Nova Scotia did away with bodychecking for its peewee players, who are usually 11 and 12 years old. Quebec had also previously banned it.

The Canadian Paediatric Society thinks it's a massive step in the right direction.

"The Canadian Paediatric Society applauds the leadership taken today by Hockey Canada to remove body-checking from Pee Wee level hockey across the country," Dr. Andrew Lynk, president of the organization, said in a press release. "This evidence-based decision puts brain safety first, and will enhance player development by focusing on fundamental skills, fun and lifetime fitness."

Debate over when to allow players to start hitting has inflamed emotions on both sides of the argument for years.

But research that came out of Alberta last year showed there was a three-fold increase in the risk of injuries for peewee players who check in Alberta, compared to those in Quebec where bodychecking is not allowed until bantam.

Paul Carson, vice-president of hockey development for Hockey Canada, said safety was a key factor in the board's decision. He said reaction at the meeting was mixed, but most thought it was the right move.

"While some would be reluctant because of their traditional beliefs of the game, they also understood that the safety and the area of skill development were critical issues to consider," said Carson on Saturday.

Saskatchewan Hockey Association disappointed

Kelly McClintock, general manager of the Saskatchewan Hockey Association, maintains that bodychecking is a skill that should be taught to children as young and eight and nine.

"Our membership has always been very strongly in favour of having bodychecking as early as possible," he said. "It's always been a pretty emotional discussion."

He said the association was disappointed, but not surprised that the motion passed.

The changes will take effect in the upcoming 2013-14 hockey season, which begins in September.

Hockey Canada said the board has agreed to develop a bodychecking standard for coaching, to be implemented in the 2014-15 season.

But McClintock says that's putting "the cart before the horse."

"For us it was probably a little bit more of a concern over the process, that it happened very quickly in the last three weeks to a month," said McClintock. "I think we have to look at the process that we follow when we're going to do something like this."

Halifax Mooseheads coach Dominique Ducharme, who is in Saskatoon for the MasterCard Memorial Cup, noted that 11- and 12-year-old kids can vary drastically in size.

"The more the players at a younger age can work on their skills, beside wondering about getting body checked and body weight and height difference, I think maybe [in] the long run it might just help develop players with even better skills," he said.

But Mooseheads forward Stefan Fournier said bodychecking teaches players an important aspect of the game at an younger age.

"When you're a peewee hockey player the game's not as fast. It teaches you to learn to keep your head up when you're skating around. That kind of stuff does limit head injuries," said Fournier, a day before hitting the ice at the Memorial Cup final against the Portland Winterhawks.

"The game's fast and if you have your head down for a split second you can get caught."

[Polaris922]

As @DaGreatGazoo said... It was two seasons ago. They've instilled a limited contact rule now for PeeWee. You can bump and rub into the boards as long as your stick is on the ice going for the puck, and your skates are parallel to the contacted player's. I've been struggling to teach it for two years.

[blocker]

I think that the bottom line is that anything that can be done to make hockey safer for kids is a good move. I know that most kids love to bodycheck, but there's enough fun in other aspects of hockey.

[Podein25]

I'm in fundamental agreement with Don Cherry on this: Hockey Canada will regret this.

But it will be interesting to see how the do-gooder academics, who recently arrived at the game of hockey to study concussions, will fudge their #s to try to prove that this change is working.

Anecdotally, I like what Bob Mackenzie tweeted the other day: women's hockey has no bodychecking - at any age - ("body contact" is tolerated), and the women's game is full of concussions.

You cannot somehow "teach" hitting properly and taking hits properly at younger ages to prepare them for the future in practice, but play by other rules until they are 13. It will not work.

Disclaimer: these comments relate to elite level players only, not House League.

Edited May 27, 2013 by Podein25

[brelic]

But it will be interesting to see how the do-gooder academics, who recently arrived at the game of hockey to study concussions, will fudge their #s to try to prove that this change is working.

Fudge numbers? Academics have no horse in this race.

Don Cherry's opinion is certainly entertaining, but is just as irrelevant as everyone else's opinion. I'm glad that *evidence* and *statistics* are what these kinds of decisions are based on, and not delusional pundits who have a hankerin' for the good ol' days.

You say it will not work. What evidence do you have that it won't? One of the biggest factors contributing to injuries at peewee was the size and weight differential in players. At that age, kids are in pretty awkward and disparate growth phases.

Plus, 95% of those kids will never make it to the NHL. If the evidence says that removing checking at that age level reduces injuries, why wouldn't you do it?

[Podein25]

Academics have no horse in this race.

I'm glad that *evidence* and *statistics* are what these kinds of decisions are based on, and not delusional pundits who have a hankerin' for the good ol' days.

These two statements are contradictory. Or seem to be.

I've looked at some of the studies. Meh, they prove what they set out to prove.

One of the biggest factors contributing to injuries at peewee was the size and weight differential in players. At that age, kids are in pretty awkward and disparate growth phases.

I just don't see how banning hitting until you turn 13, then starting hitting solves that problem. Doesn't it make it worse?

Sorry, I'm old school on this stuff. I think it just tells kids they don't need to keep their heads up. Then suddenly, they do have to keep their heads up. Except by then, well by then it could be too late, they have been concussed and good.

Edited May 27, 2013 by Podein25

[Polaris922]

@Podein25

From what I've seen, injuries are way down in the PeeWee ranks, and we still teach them body contact, so they still know they have to keep their heads up. In fact, we have a tough time teaching the kids to play physical or to absorb the hits correctly at this age group, so their not looking for it is only amplified by allowing full body checking. It's not much different in Bantam when they start, but they're a little more developed, and a little more mentally aware at that point it seems to me. I think this was a good move in PeeWee here. We went the entire season last year without a single injury in almost 30 games.

[Podein25]

@Polaris922

Intersting. Ok, I can accept that and absorb it, but I'm not convinced. Coaching is key obviously.

[Polaris922]

@Polaris922

Intersting. Ok, I can accept that and absorb it, but I'm not convinced. Coaching is key obviously.

I just hope I'm doing it right! Lol

[Podein25]

It sounds like it.

I still come back to this: learning how to hit properly in game situations can only be properly achieved in game situations. That means learning earlier, not later.

But anyway, the debate is real. And I hate the emerging consensus on this. Science will disprove it in 20 years.

I grew up in a mining town. So keep that in mind.

[brelic]

These two statements are contradictory. Or seem to be.

Not sure I follow. Where is the contradiction?

I've looked at some of the studies. Meh, they prove what they set out to prove.

Again, I'm not sure what you mean by this. Are you saying that all academics that have looked at this issue are somehow dishonest? I will admit that it happens from time to time that a study may have biased findings because of who sponsored the research, but those are exceptions rather than the rule.

Don Cherry, on the other hand, is just a man with an opinion. A very influential one, but still not based on evidence. Statements like "they're on the road to hell" or "What’s going to happen is these kids are going to go up to (age) 13 and then they’re going to go in with kids that hit. And they don’t know how to protect themselves" don't mean anything. It's just noise.

Intersting. Ok, I can accept that and absorb it, but I'm not convinced. Coaching is key obviously.

One study followed over 2,100 hockey players, and over 150 teams in different provinces to get their baseline statistics.

What would it take to convince you?

[DaGreatGazoo]

As the father of a 15 and 16 yr old, I have mixed feelings on the decision-and I did when USA Hockey enacted the rule. I am all for anything that can help to protect kids, and also keeps them playing the game longer. But I am also not convinced that little/no hitting until kids are bigger/faster is the answer either.

I think the bigger issue is teaching/coaching players to check correctly, and more importantly how to receive a check properly. I am SHOCKED at the number of TRAVEL organizations that offer little to no checking instruction/clinics. Back when my son was moving into PeeWee, his club had a mandatory checking clinic before he could travel. While that is alone, is not the answer, it is a starting point to educate kids.

Also, I think how youth games are refereed is KEY to any concussion conversation. The amount of head contact allowed is ridiculous at the travel and JV/Varsity levels(I am in Central PA). I have never heard a ref tell a bench during the pregame handshake: "Hey Coach, ANYTHING to the head area will be called. No discussions/no exceptions. Tell your team." Instead, one kid goes headhunting, then the other team wants retribution, etc, etc, etc.... Stop the nonsense before it starts.

From the youth games I've watched, intentional head contact causes a lot more injuries than hard clean body checks.

[brelic]

From the youth games I've watched, intentional head contact causes a lot more injuries than hard clean body checks.

I remember in my day, checking wasn't allowed in Peewee (not sure when it became ok?). I think it was either bantam or midget when I was first allowed to check. And it's probably a good thing. I had an early growth spurt, so I was in some cases, almost double the size of some of the little squirts I was playing against. A few years later, I was decidedly average.

I'd like to see statistics on how many players keep going up levels, i.e. the dropoff rate for kids quitting hockey. I played for 10 or 11 years, but most kids had dropped out by then, doing something else. And then when I was forced to quit because of an injury, it was at the high school/major junior level, where you have another huge dropoff. Generally, the best players went to major junior, and the rest played high school hockey.

Anyway, the point is if you can eliminate the injury rate by 66% for peewee kids - 95% of which will NEVER make it past high school hockey - why wouldn't you do it?

Unless there's clear evidence demonstrating a causal link between no checking in peewee, and more injuries later...

[mojo1917]

I have never heard a ref tell a bench during the pregame handshake: "Hey Coach, ANYTHING to the head area will be called. No discussions/no exceptions. Tell your team." Instead, one kid goes headhunting, then the other team wants retribution, etc, etc, etc.... Stop the nonsense before it starts.

wow there's an idea, actually enforce the rule... what are you some kind of moon-man genius ?

I kid but this makes a ton of sense.

[Podein25]

What would it take to convince you?

A 42' plasma in a Lexus limo with some girls on pogo sticks serving G&Ts. At minimum.

[brelic]

A 42' plasma in a Lexus limo with some girls on pogo sticks serving G&Ts. At minimum.

You lost me at 42' plasma! Who needs that when you've got the rest???

[Podein25]

@brelic

Fair point.

I don't have a good response to you buddy. I'm a dinosaur I guess. I wish to reiterate my key point that I'm talking about rules re hitting for Tier 1 players only. Elite players are elite players at all ages. Even the guys and girls who make those teams who aren't big, or aren't stars or whatever, they all play at that level until they don't. They should learn early.

[brelic]

@brelic

Fair point.

I don't have a good response to you buddy. I'm a dinosaur I guess. I wish to reiterate my key point that I'm talking about rules re hitting for Tier 1 players only. Elite players are elite players at all ages. Even the guys and girls who make those teams who aren't big, or aren't stars or whatever, they all play at that level until they don't. They should learn early.

I completely agree about coaching how to TAKE a hit, and RECEIVE a hit properly. Those are really important things to learn. But when there is a 50% or more weight difference and several inches between kids who haven't even hit puberty, even receiving a hit properly can knock you out. I've seen it many times. I've been on the giving end and the receiving end. It's pretty scary.

It's a fundamental part of the game, and it should be taught well. The only thing Hockey Canada is saying is that peewee is not the right time based on the number of injuries. Or, maybe this becomes a moratorium to re-examine the culture of hockey, which has gone from solid clean checks to headhunting all the way up to the NHL.