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So is Duncan Keith a dirty player?


Guest B21

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5 games last year for a pretty vicious elbow to the head of Daniel Sedin.

Now 1 game for what looked to be an intentional slash to Jeff Carter's face.

A couple other incidents that went unpunished (high stick on Briere in the SFC a few years back comes to mind).

So.............................is Duncan Keith a dirty player?

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5 games last year for a pretty vicious elbow to the head of Daniel Sedin.

Now 1 game for what looked to be an intentional slash to Jeff Carter's face.

A couple other incidents that went unpunished (high stick on Briere in the SFC a few years back comes to mind).

So.............................is Duncan Keith a dirty player?

It looking that way...I can't believe he only got 1 game...that is BS! And being a repeat offender that isn't right

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So.............................is Duncan Keith a dirty player?

I guess it depends on who you're comparing him to. Compared to Matt Cooke? He's a freaking angel. Compared to anyone wearing Shannies winged wheels? He's the 2nd coming of Rinaldo. Ok, he's not regarded quite that offensive by the NHL.

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Duncan Keith gets caught more... so yes he's a dirty player they're all dirty players , whether it's holding stick , grabbing some sweater , a little whack to the shins; they all try to get an advantage, Keith is just a little extra careless and gets caught more often.

i think this Carter play was an accident , as they were both hacking and whacking at each other in front of Crawford, this doesn't look like dino cicerelli or marty mcsorley to me, and i don't think Keith is that type of player anyway. He's had one incident that i can remember (Sedin )where he looked like an those guys , but Geno Malkin swings the elbows pretty good, and Wayne Simmonds is all pointy joints in the corners ... I don't think he's earned Raffy Torres or Matt Cooke status yet.

he could easily been suspended for more games though, the more you watch that play the worse it seems.

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it *is* a little surprising he only got 1 game but supposedly he wasn't really trying to hit Carter's face. But should we be factoring in the intention? I don't think so, that gets into reading-minds territory.

If Shan would just punish the action itself, quit trying to imagine what was in the guy's mind at the time .... but of course that will never happen. He's convinced he's pretty much smarter than everybody else - like his predecessor.

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Malkin knows all about that!

But you know Keith would have gotten more during the regular season.

Is that fair?

Yes Keith would have.

As for the Malkin thing, see the other threads where you would see he received no special treatment. I think it was in one if the Red Wings topics it was discussed ad nauseum.

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Yes Keith would have.

As for the Malkin thing, see the other threads where you would see he received no special treatment. I think it was in one if the Red Wings topics it was discussed ad nauseum.

Bah, he'll always be a dirty player in my mind ;) I mean, I can't actually *like* the players on opposing teams, now can I?

THat's ancient history anyway. As for Keith, yeah, he would have gotten more for sure. You don't want to see one of the best defensemen in the game be suspended during the best hockey of the year... but on the other hand, it's just more examples of a double standard.

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I guess it depends on who you're comparing him to. Compared to Matt Cooke? He's a freaking angel. Compared to anyone wearing Shannies winged wheels? He's the 2nd coming of Rinaldo. Ok, he's not regarded quite that offensive by the NHL.

Right idea. Wrong guys. Try Neal and Kunitz.

I compare his incidents/suspensions to theirs...and they both are regarded among the dirtiest players in the league here. Yet...for some reason (sweater color maybe?) I haven't seen Duncan Keith get killed in nearly the same manner.

Example: Remember the Kunitz elbow on Gagne in the Lightning series? No worse than Keith on Sedin. Both had history. Both got one game. Now go read the posts on Kunitz when that happened. Then go read the posts on Keith (of which this is the only one...which I started).

Which is cool. But it proves (again) what I have thought all along.

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@B21

i have to say i'm not all that familiar with Duncan's "body of work" so to speak, i think if i watched more Hawks games i'd have a better take, My extreme dislike of Pat Kane keeps me from watching them during the regular season. So i really only get to see them / him in the post season when no quarter is given and every inch of ice must be forcibly seized. So while i say he's no worse than a lot of other guys he's on the watch list now.

On the other hand I see plenty of Kunitz and cannot get past the image of his first shift in the long ago playoffs where he bee lined to Timmonen and made him a one legged player for the series. Maybe that's smart hockey , but it was against my guy and felt dirty to me. Kunitz is a rugged guy who plays hard for a team i don't like so yeah he's a criminal . Keith is a rugged guy who plays for a team i don't know a lot about so he's .... i don't know a person of suspicion ? He's not a goon ala Orr or a head hunter like Torres.... maybe his reputation changes , we'll see i suppose.

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@B21

If you think Flyer fans are going to hate Black Hawks as much as Penguins (other than for a couple weeks in 2010) you really don't get this fan thing do ya? :wub:

Ding ding ding. In otherwords, the Flyers fans' judgment when it comes to incidents like that involving the Pens is a little....jaded? Before you say we are the same way, think carefully. You "hate" us more than we "hate" you. Remember, we have Cups since the Ford Adminstration and we don't win the "right way" (whatever that is) and our fans are bandwagon (even though the Flyers don't sell out every game when the are good) and on and on and on.

The other Pens fans here rarely go out of our ways to be critical of your franchise and when we do, it likely involved defending our own in the process. The Flyers population on the other hand...always seems to have a comment/opinion on all things Penguins. Why? Simple. You "hate" us more than we "hate" you.

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@B21

i have to say i'm not all that familiar with Duncan's "body of work" so to speak, i think if i watched more Hawks games i'd have a better take, My extreme dislike of Pat Kane keeps me from watching them during the regular season. So i really only get to see them / him in the post season when no quarter is given and every inch of ice must be forcibly seized. So while i say he's no worse than a lot of other guys he's on the watch list now.

On the other hand I see plenty of Kunitz and cannot get past the image of his first shift in the long ago playoffs where he bee lined to Timmonen and made him a one legged player for the series. Maybe that's smart hockey , but it was against my guy and felt dirty to me. Kunitz is a rugged guy who plays hard for a team i don't like so yeah he's a criminal . Keith is a rugged guy who plays for a team i don't know a lot about so he's .... i don't know a person of suspicion ? He's not a goon ala Orr or a head hunter like Torres.... maybe his reputation changes , we'll see i suppose.

Not to pick you...but that's my point. Kunitz became a "dirty" player for that Timmonen hit which was questionable at best. I read the blogs. Some said dirty. Some said clean. You even said yourself....dirty to you because it was your guy. That's fine. Most hockey fans think the same way. The problem isn't thinking it's a dirty hit...it's ONE play cementing a guy's reputation (kinda like one year has cemented Crosby's). Now anyting remotely "questionable" that involves Kunitz...shove after the play, face rub, standard 2:00 boarding call, the fight with Hartnell...all part of hockey...and he's the devil reincarnated. Then the Gagne hit comes along and it's "Ha Ha - see?" where there really wasn't much before that.

Just like Crosby (beating my dead horse). He whined and dove way way way too much...as an 18 year old rookie. Has he done it since? Sure. Not nearly as much. Not even close. No more or less than your average NHL player. But of course now...everytime he is seen talking to an official....whining. (Of course as Captian that's his job). Any time he goes down? Dive. I'll even go so far as to say one game (the Derian Hatcher teeth game) cemented his reputation among Flans fans.

These examples (Crosby and Kunitz) aren't "made their bed now they have to lie in it" examples either....(Matt Cooke is a good example of this). It's nothing more than biased observation.

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Ding ding ding. In otherwords, the Flyers fans' judgment when it comes to incidents like that involving the Pens is a little....jaded? Before you say we are the same way, think carefully. You "hate" us more than we "hate" you. Remember, we have Cups since the Ford Adminstration and we don't win the "right way" (whatever that is) and our fans are bandwagon (even though the Flyers don't sell out every game when the are good) and on and on and on.

The other Pens fans here rarely go out of our ways to be critical of your franchise and when we do, it likely involved defending our own in the process. The Flyers population on the other hand...always seems to have a comment/opinion on all things Penguins. Why? Simple. You "hate" us more than we "hate" you.

Well in all fairness this is obviously a predominant "Flyers" board, so of course Pens hate will run rampant. And numbering in 3 or 4, you guys do tend to trod gently. So that's hardly a fair gauge of who hates who more.

One need only look at the past draft in Pittsburgh, where the crowd booed mercilessly an 18 year old who had never played a single game against the Pens just because the Flyers drafted him. And try and post in ANY Penguins board without being an arse kissing brown-nosed homer Pens fan and you get the boot right off the bat. Wonder why that is? IF, (and that's a hypothetical if because Pens fan will never allow it) a few Flyer fans were allowed to post in a Pens forum, my guess is the treatment would be less than you guys get here. More people on here like you guys as posters than don't. My guess is if there were 4 Ranger fans on here, they'd get the same treatment. So don't make out like you guys are special. I've hated the Rangers a lot longer than I have your team. And the fact that you guys, as Pens fans, are allowed on here tells me most of us are acceptable of hockey fans, even if they are rivals, than most of those (not you, Polaris etc) candyassed Pens fans who can't handle a Philly fan in their midst...because they hate them so much!

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@B21

i don't know what you're looking for here.

I don't like Kunitz. I don't like the Pens, and I really don't like too many of the South Central PA Pens fans who couldn't point west or spell hockey until 1990 but now want to act like their hockey team is this "paragon of sporting excellence" like their beloved Steelers . Those two organizations are not the same not even close.

I am a little jealous that my team trades years of draft picks and solid roster players for the "next one" and it doesn't work out. i am a little jealous that when my team sucks horribly we lose the damn draft lottery in the most shallow draft class ever and wind up with JvR.

(We've been over ad nauseum the Pens good fortune. so i'm not going to lay that out).

I don't like the crowing about how awesome the Pens are even when it is true.

I think you and the Pgh blokes who visit the site bring good stuff regarding your team and you're fun to go back and forth with you guys have good humor and intelligence but I don't like your team, in 10 years maybe i'll have to respect the excellence but as or now I don't and won't.

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@B21

i don't know what you're looking for here.

I don't like Kunitz. I don't like the Pens, and I really don't like too many of the South Central PA Pens fans who couldn't point west or spell hockey until 1990 but now want to act like their hockey team is this "paragon of sporting excellence" like their beloved Steelers . Those two organizations are not the same not even close.

I am a little jealous that my team trades years of draft picks and solid roster players for the "next one" and it doesn't work out. i am a little jealous that when my team sucks horribly we lose the damn draft lottery in the most shallow draft class ever and wind up with JvR.

(We've been over ad nauseum the Pens good fortune. so i'm not going to lay that out).

I don't like the crowing about how awesome the Pens are even when it is true.

I think you and the Pgh blokes who visit the site bring good stuff regarding your team and you're fun to go back and forth with you guys have good humor and intelligence but I don't like your team, in 10 years maybe i'll have to respect the excellence but as or now I don't and won't.

See B21, he doesn't like the Pens, but has no problem conversing with you in a civil manner. And I think you'd find that on most Flyer boards. But if Mojo went over to the Pens forum, they'd boot him off cause he's a Flyer fan. Pure, unadulterated spiteful hate!

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You "hate" us more than we "hate" you.

I'd like to think of it as more "passionate" rather than "hate". It makes us sound so mean! :rolleyes:

But, put another way, if Keith had just nailed Crosby in the head like he did Carter, I would feel the same way. That it was a dirty play, and he got away with it. It would be unfair to the Pens (as it is for the Kings) that he just gets one game for that.

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One need only look at the past draft in Pittsburgh, where the crowd booed mercilessly an 18 year old who had never played a single game against the Pens just because the Flyers drafted him

I'm pretty damn sure the Pens pick is getting booed when the draft is in Philly. :D

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Well in all fairness this is obviously a predominant "Flyers" board, so of course Pens hate will run rampant. And numbering in 3 or 4, you guys do tend to trod gently. So that's hardly a fair gauge of who hates who more.

One need only look at the past draft in Pittsburgh, where the crowd booed mercilessly an 18 year old who had never played a single game against the Pens just because the Flyers drafted him. And try and post in ANY Penguins board without being an arse kissing brown-nosed homer Pens fan and you get the boot right off the bat. Wonder why that is? IF, (and that's a hypothetical if because Pens fan will never allow it) a few Flyer fans were allowed to post in a Pens forum, my guess is the treatment would be less than you guys get here. More people on here like you guys as posters than don't. My guess is if there were 4 Ranger fans on here, they'd get the same treatment. So don't make out like you guys are special. I've hated the Rangers a lot longer than I have your team. And the fact that you guys, as Pens fans, are allowed on here tells me most of us are acceptable of hockey fans, even if they are rivals, than most of those (not you, Polaris etc) candyassed Pens fans who can't handle a Philly fan in their midst...because they hate them so much!

Fair point on the draft but I was referencing here more than "in general". Also, I'm not talking fans hating fans. I am talking about fans hatings teams. So who likes who as a poster is not part of the equation.

As for the Rangers comparison - I have to disagree. Strongly. Sure, the fans would be treated cordially. But there would not be nearly the same vitriol towards the Rangers' players as there is towards the Pens (again - team not fans).

When Tortarella went on his rant, who's side was everyone here on? Whose side were you on? No one disagreed with Tortarella. No one. That was pile-on central.

When Crosby and Callahan tangled - that "slew foot" - it was Crosby's fault.

Even one of the more egregious dives I have ever seen (remember Staal's miscoduct for "punching" Prust who waited about a minute before falling)...it was heavily pro-Rangers on that one to.

I'm not making this up. From my seat...Pens are Enemy #1.

Let's not forget - Philly fans booed their own draft pick. At least we keep it to the opponent. :ph34r:

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I'd like to think of it as more "passionate" rather than "hate". It makes us sound so mean! :rolleyes:

But, put another way, if Keith had just nailed Crosby in the head like he did Carter, I would feel the same way. That it was a dirty play, and he got away with it. It would be unfair to the Pens (as it is for the Kings) that he just gets one game for that.

That's why "hate" was in "...". ;)

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@B21

I can only speak for myself. I hate the Rangers every bit as much, and have for a lot longer, as I do the Pens. I could see a cross-state rival being a huge factor, but it doesn't really affect me up here in Canuckistan.

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