Lines

[Digityman]

Hartnell Giroux Vorachek
Schenn Vinny Simmonds
Read Couterier Gagne
Talbot Hall Rinaldo

 

I like this.  The only tweak I would make is shifting Read or Gagne up to Hartnell's spot unless Hartnell comes into camp ready to prove he was a 30 goal scorer.  

[Flyskippy]

Look, I'll put this into somewhat strained perspective.

 

Iraq and Afghanistan were ridiculously stupid decisions. The fact that we will be "out" of both of them by the end of next year doesn't change that.

 

And I don't want the guy who made those stupid decisions in a position to make them again.

 

And, no, there is no guarantee that the next guy will do better. He might, for example, invade Syria.

 

I have many times noted that Homer has stumbled and bumbled his way into a notbad - if not "good" - situation at this point. 

 

I'd just prefer not to have a GM that relies on stumbling and bumbling to arrive at the same place the team was at five years ago.

Except for the whole "let the extremists come after Americans who are trained and ready to fight back" in those two countries instead of sitting on our thumbs and letting them continue to come to us (that is, bomb/shoot civilians) in the States bit.  I'll take my USMC brother's opinion over that of the average Joe, thank you.

[Flyskippy]

Do you remember that season? That was a .500 team that didn't even qualify for a PO spot until the last day of the season. They barely made the POs, let alone the cup. Once they made it in, then they decided they wanted to play, got lucky with a hot goalie, but the clock struck midnight right at the worst possible moment. They were the definition of lazy and talented at the same time. I'm glad that core is gone. Their approach to the game is completely wrong.

I wonder where that team would have ended up if Emery's hip had not been injured/necrotic.  They had a pretty good October into November before dropping around Thanksgiving, costing Stevens his job.

[radoran]

Except for the whole "let the extremists come after Americans who are trained and ready to fight back" in those two countries instead of sitting on our thumbs and letting them continue to come to us (that is, bomb/shoot civilians) in the States bit.  I'll take my USMC brother's opinion over that of the average Joe, thank you.

 

Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. And the number of "extremists" looking to do us harm in Iraq has soared since the invasion.

 

Afghanistan is called the "graveyard of empires" for a reason. The Taliban still exists 12 years later and even the Afghani government opposes most US policy.

 

The estimates are that we will spend somewhere between four and six trillion dollars in Iraq and we are no "safer" now than before.

 

That the decisions were stupid decisions has nothing to do with the great men and women who were tasked with carrying them out.

 

They were still bad decisions.

 

And I'll go with my friend, the USMC-trained Navy Commander in intelligence on this one. He's headed for his third tour this winter.

[murraycraven]

Careful guys...   HF101 is gonna to get ya!   Hockey... not politics!

Edited August 30, 2013 by murraycraven

[radoran]

Careful guys...   HF101 is gonna to get ya!   Hockey... not politics!

 

we're fine in the threads. It's the shoutbox that is #hockeyrelated territory

 

If this goes longer, I'll split it out.

[Mad Dog]

And I'll go with my friend, the USMC-trained Navy Commander in intelligence on this one. He's headed for his third tour this winter.

 

Wait.  Am I reading this right?  Are *you* going to Afganistan this winter?

[Flyskippy]

Careful guys...   HF101 is gonna to get ya!   Hockey... not politics!

No, no, I'm done.

[LegionOfDoom]

Roouuff......Roouuff...........Rooufff!               coon' dogs barkin up the wrong tree.

 

It's all about Holla....Holla....Holla  Holla'burton.

Smoke and mirrors boys and girls, smoke and mirrors.

War now a days is strategic economic management asset. Big business. very big.

While them boys are fighten to get them coon ticks off each others backs.

Boss Hoggs countin' his chikens at the dude ranch....gyekk, gyekk, gyekk.

 

Unfortunately it's the ama'rican civilian, turned soilder, who's left with the bill. And sometimes Boss Hoggs mouth opens up more then, their(civilian turned soilder) body can cash.

 

From a global financial business endeavor, it makes plenty sense. From a social-polytheistic viewpoint, it's greedy, narcissistic behaviour.]

 

'Member boys are birth Rite keystone states constitution was written and setup to protect/prevent against tyranny foriegn OR domestic.....foreign orrr......domestic.......

 

 

 

It's a tuff blindfold that has to come off on someone who's master has crafted a delightful collar to go along with it's......SQUIRELL! (hockey season) LET'S GO FLYERS! LET'S GO!

 

 

[radoran]

Wait.  Am I reading this right?  Are *you* going to Afganistan this winter?

 

No, "he's headed for his third tour"  means "him"

 

The "I'll go with" was a response to the "I'll take" in the comment responded to.

[fanaticV3.0]

Physician, heal thyself. The ninja was there for a reason.

 

Also, too, I knew you would ignore the rest and seize upon the only thing you could.

 

Bravo, sir. Well done.

 

 

Why was Leighton in goal? Who made that decision?

 

Oh, right.

 

Credit where credit is due.

 

Pretty ironic coming from you in regards to this topic. Who the f-ck do you think you are kidding with this "I give Homer credit where due" bullshit? You called him an idiot, lucky, and a guy who just happened to stumble and bumble into a decent deal once and a while. In what universe is that praise, lol?!

[fanaticV3.0]

yes I remember but you need to "give credit where credit is due" right?   I was all for them being traded but you said it yourself in your retorts to Rad... give them credit where it is due - they made the Cup and if it were not for Leighton's horrific goal they may have won a cup.  

 

I did. I called them talented. Is it not pretty much talent and talent alone that allows a team who was not in a PO position to make the POs on the last day and ride that all the way to the cup? Ok, that and a lot of luck.

 

Stop scapegoating. Do not fool yourself into thinking that was a championship caliber team. That team had no business in the Cup Finals. Championship teams do not only play when they feel like it. That team lost its coach, struck lightning in a bottle with Leighton and did it again with the whole Boston thing. The clock was going to strike midnight on that bunch no matter what, it is too easy to blame Leighton. Plus, their big guns stopped performing. If I remember correctly, Richards, Carter, and Gagne all did a pretty good disappearing act compared to previous rounds.

[fanaticV3.0]

I wonder where that team would have ended up if Emery's hip had not been injured/necrotic.  They had a pretty good October into November before dropping around Thanksgiving, costing Stevens his job.

 

That team's problems was so much deeper than Emery, I'm not too quick to say "things would have been different with Emery in net".

[Mad Dog]

No, "he's headed for his third tour"  means "him"

 

The "I'll go with" was a response to the "I'll take" in the comment responded to.

 

Good... because we need you to run the NAHANA. 

[doom88]

I did. I called them talented. Is it not pretty much talent and talent alone that allows a team who was not in a PO position to make the POs on the last day and ride that all the way to the cup? Ok, that and a lot of luck.

Stop scapegoating. Do not fool yourself into thinking that was a championship caliber team. That team had no business in the Cup Finals. Championship teams do not only play when they feel like it. That team lost its coach, struck lightning in a bottle with Leighton and did it again with the whole Boston thing. The clock was going to strike midnight on that bunch no matter what, it is too easy to blame Leighton. Plus, their big guns stopped performing. If I remember correctly, Richards, Carter, and Gagne all did a pretty good disappearing act compared to previous rounds.

Gagne came back game 4 against the Bruins and made some history. You do not remember correctly in that case.

[gp926]

Hartnell - Giroux - Voracek

 

Sorry, how you take Voracek off this line after last year I don't know. And Hartnell scored 40 goals two seasons ago, lost last season to injury, he should still start on the 1st line. No reason to change this line from last January.

 

Schenn - Vinny - Simmonds

 

Simmonds and VL are givens, LW is hard for me. Gagne is too slow, Read is much better on a shutdown line IMO. Schenn isn't the best fit, I'd rather have him C a 4th line but who else to plug in here?

 

Rinaldo - Coots - Read

 

Rinaldo played hard minutes and looked good. I like him against top forwards as an agitator between the whistles if he can keep his head, and he keeps getting better at restraining his emotions.

 

Hall - Talbot - Laughton

 

Laughton should make the team this year. Talbot is a sure thing for 4th C. Hall is better than Gagne but it's close. Hall plays 60 games, Gagne 42.

 

Streit - Couburn

 

Couburn's skating ability should help with the Streit's perceived slowness. Streit was a bonafide top defenseman on the Isle, and should be good enough to continue to matchup against the top players on the other team.

 

Kimmo - Schenn

 

Like this line. Both can move well enough, Kimmo can move the puck, Schenn can grind it out of the corners.

 

Mez - Grossmann

 

Both these guys were the best defenseman at one point in the past 3 years on the Flyers. Now they're totally on the 3rd line. I'm cautiously optimistic about the Flyers defense for this year at least.

 

Scratches: Gagne, Gervais, Rosehill

 

Emery starts the season opener. Gus, Manning, Lauridsen, McGinn, and Manning are all candidates to be called up due to injury.

 

I'm really surprised that people don't have Mez on the opening day roster. He won the Ashbee in his only full season with the team and shouldn't be slowing down. Gus is a good 6/7 player but Mez would be 4/5 on many teams. 

[jammer2]

@gp926  Well thought out post. I'm probably in the minority, but I would like to see Hartnell on the 3rd line. The Flyers always seem to be striving to concoct a well balanced top 3 lines.....but I for one, would like to see the top 6 stacked with as much talent as possible. Depth on the wings is not great to begin with, but I'd love to see Schenn given a shot at playing with Giroux and Voracek. He's faster than Hartnell and I believe he'd retrieve the puck a bit better than Harts, giving G's line more scoring chances. Schenn has none nothing to deserve it, but I do believe it would kick start his offense.

 

 The are however, a few downfalls to this set up. It would make the 3rd line slow, no matter who was matched with Coots and Harts, that line would be a tad slow. Then, you are paying a guy 4.75 to play on the 3rd line, not a perfect set up, but no matter how you match it up, there is shortcomings. I think Hall is a lock for 4th line center, he's probably the best guy on faceoffs, so on a team where that is a perceived weakness, I don't see them sending Hall to the wing, they have to use his skill on the draws to their advantage.

 

 There is definite positives from spacing out the talent on the top 3 lines, but at the end of the day, the 2-4 more quality scoring chances per game that would be derived from Schenn playing with G would outweigh any negatives. 

[murraycraven]

Hartnell - Giroux - Voracek

Sorry, how you take Voracek off this line after last year I don't know. And Hartnell scored 40 goals two seasons ago, lost last season to injury, he should still start on the 1st line. No reason to change this line from last January.

 

great post gp926...

 

I could not agree more about Hartnell being on the first line.   They guy lights it up two years ago and there was chemistry.  For as much as people knock Hartnell I still think he can score 25+ goals on this line.  He also adds some much needed grit to the line and hopefully he keeps the stupid penalties to a minimum

[mojo1917]

Read is much better on a shutdown line IMO.

 

NIce thoughts on the team, especially Gagne Talbot and Hall, not sure about Laughton, Does stuffing him on the 4th line in the NHL help him or does it keep him from developing into an all purpose player ? that's tricky and i don't know if i know the right thing to do with him, i feel pretty confident an overage year in junior does him no service.

 

as for the quote that i highlighted, i don't get why eveyone discounts Read's offensive abilities.  He is a good hockey player period, He's faster than you think, he gets his shot on the net, has good instincts and when he has his opportunites more often than not he buries them...an anti-carter if you will.  is it the speed that makes people think shutdown guy ? I know he's not a wizard with the biscuit on his stick, so  I think he needs creative/talented linemates to find him in scoring areas because he will be where he's supposed to be and doesn't miss the open net. He raises his level of play to match his linemates, i hope  the team can find a way to keep him around.

[Mad Dog]

As for the quote that i highlighted, i don't get why eveyone discounts Read's offensive abilities.  He is a good hockey player period, He's faster than you think, he gets his shot on the net, has good instincts and when he has his opportunites more often than not he buries them...an anti-carter if you will.  is it the speed that makes people think shutdown guy ? I know he's not a wizard with the biscuit on his stick, so  I think he needs creative/talented linemates to find him in scoring areas because he will be where he's supposed to be and doesn't miss the open net. He raises his level of play to match his linemates, i hope  the team can find a way to keep him around.

 

I am of a similar opinion.  I don't really undertsand where people got an idea that Read is a "shut-down" player.  I mean this is one of his many attributes, but he brings *much* more to the table than just an ability to lock down on the defense.  He scores as well as he plays defensively, which he demonstrated during his time here.  And the shame of it is that if the Flyers did not get LeCavalier this off-season, Read would be a great 2nd liner on Schenn's wing.  There would be no way of knowing, of course, but I really believe he would thrive playing heavy minutes. 

 

Instead, he will now be limited playing on the third line, probably score 12-14 goals, and at the end of the season the Flyers will use his low production as an ammunition to not give him a raise reflective of his *true* market value and will probably eventually lose him to free agency.  And none of that would be an issue if they didn't reach out to sign Vinny. It really is mindboggling how narrow-minded and myopic this team's brass is more often than not. 

Edited September 4, 2013 by Mad Dog

[jammer2]

@Mad Dog  I don't see Read as a shut down guy either. I believe he could play that role if called upon, but I honestly consider him one of more creative forwards. He belongs in the top 6, some how, some way. A great second line would be Read with Simmonds and Vinny, 2 of the 3 players are really fast and Vinny makes up for it in smarts, when he is motivated anyways. If Vinny pulls this disappearing act like he has so often in Tampa, Flyers fans will turn on him very fast. I just hope for the best and perhaps the change of scenery will be good for him. After all, a lot different atmosphere in Philly, with the sold out crowds and increased media scrutiny. This could have a positive effect on Vinny. Let us all hope....

[LegionOfDoom]

I would like to see the line of Gagne, Vinny and Read. This would be considered an offensive line with three capable finishers with two clearly solid two way players. I would put Read also on the PK here and there because he knows how to score in shorthanded situations.

 

I would like one day to see Schenn, Laughton and Simmer on a line as well, if Simmer was occupied on another line I would want to try out Rinaldo there. that line would have the intensity of the Legion Of Doom in a small way.

 

I'm up in the air whith the line of Claude and Jake as far as that goes, though Hartnell does create space and is a solid distraction to the opponents if he's on G's line.

 

Although Hartnell causes me to have mood swings with his raw talent and a non commitment to his physical conditioning and improvement. I think Jagr was the best thing for him, even more so than G's improvement with Jagr.

 

Another option would be to move Jake to right wing, with G centering and Vinny at right wing. Vinny can score off that wing as he's show'd it against us.

Doing that would open up putting Hartnell, Schenn and Simmer on another line.

Putting Read, Cooter and Gagne on another.

With Rinaldo, Hall/Laughton and Talbot on another as well:

 

Voracek  Giroux  Vinny

 

Hartnell  Schenn  Simmer

 

Read  Cooter   Gagne

 

Rinaldo  Hall/Laughton  Talbot

 

I would  put Hall/Laughton's line out first on away games and some home games

then follow up with Schenn's line, then switch G's line and Cooter's line here and there.

 

When you relegate a player to a class system, those players compartmentalize themselves in a pigeon holed position. I believe all lines should be put out in the first quarter(actually third) and you widdle your way down to the 2nd period and 3rd calling them from that point 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th liners.

This way they can all feel like on any given night they can heavily contribute to the win. And motivate the natural talent to perform, to get 1st line minutes.

 

This is a crushing wave team strategy and causes the opponents defensive coordinator to have fits because they can't always pin down starting lineups, defensive draw faceoffs, etc. This also doesn't put all the pressure on quote, unquote "Star Players" to wear themselves out indirectly mentally and physically.

 

 

In regards to the Flyers team that made it to the playoffs with Leighton.

Alot of things happened during that run that assisted us from even being there....I recall to teams that had our number, conviniently being dispatched during our run that allowed us to dodge a few bullets on the way to the finals. In this regard although not pointed out Fanatic 5.0 was on to something and that talented lazy crew had no business in the finals, but somehow ended showing up at the party(dance). You can't win on talent alone....go ask Ovechkin. The team has to play as a team.

 

I liked our pieces during that run but unfortunately not all of them worked at the same time, either due to injury, conditioning or lapses in awareness.

Edited September 5, 2013 by LegionOfDoom

[jammer2]

@LegionOfDoom  Yeah, Montreal knocking off the Penguins that year helped us out a lot. Don't know if that Flyers team would have beat the Pens in a 7 game series with our goaltending.

[LegionOfDoom]

Ya and I can't seem to remember who the other team that got knocked out and we didn't have to play them, was it the Capitals?

[jammer2]

@LegionOfDoom  Yep, Caps first, then the Habs took out the Pens. I won my fantasy playoff pool at work. We selected 25 players from boxes and I had 23 of them going in the Conference Finals...a cool 1,400 in my pocket.