Unbecoming of a Flyers Captain

[Flyskippy]

I'm a 45-year fan who has seen the ups and downs. I agree they have the same goal.

I just disagree with their means of achieving it.

And I don't have any faith in the guy(s) who made one of the single worst decisions in the history of hockey by tying the franchise to a crippling nine-year, NMC deal, dealing away a future Vezina winner (because they screwed up on how many games he could play and be waiver exempt) and then forcing the cancellation of half a season of hockey to make that decision go away will "get it right next time."

They very well might - and I'll happily be at the parade a block from my house on Broad Street.

Been waiting for that since 1975.

A lot of hindsight (which has the benefit of seeing 20/20) and small sampling (Bob) in that critique:

Via Pronger, Homer brought the team closer to a Cup than anyone since 1987.

Snider tied Homer's hands with having to solve a problem that was not there: Laviolette caused that by mishandling Bob in 2011's playoffs. As to his Vezina, let's see if he can replicate his half-season performance over a whole season before lamenting that trade like over dramatic mourners.

FWIW, I wanted Lavi fired after this past season for his coaching from the 2011 playoffs onward. If he falters (that is, the team) this year, he & Homer should both go. Homer for not replacing him when there were eligible replacements that won't be there from October to April this season.

That said, I am looking forward to this group. I have a feeling akin to the 2007-08 team: I believe they will exceed expectations and make some noise in the playoffs. I would not be surprised with a deep run at all.

If I am wrong, fire Homer & Lavi and replace them with interims until next spring when more candidates become available.

Edited August 20, 2013 by Flyskippy

[radoran]

A lot of hindsight (which has the benefit of seeing 20/20) and small sampling (Bob) in that critique:

Via Pronger, Homer brought the team closer to a Cup than anyone since 1987.

Snider tied Homer's hands with having to solve a problem that was not there: Laviolette caused that by mishandling Bob in 2011's playoffs. As to his Vezina, let's see if he can replicate his half-season performance over a whole season before lamenting that trade like over dramatic mourners.

FWIW, I wanted Lavi fired after this past season for his coaching from the 2011 playoffs onward. If he falters (that is, the team) this year, he & Homer should both go. Homer for not replacing him when there were eligible replacements that won't be there from October to April this season.

That said, I am looking forward to this group. I have a feeling akin to the 2007-08 team: I believe they will exceed expectations and make some noise in the playoffs. I would not be surprised with a deep run at all.

If I am wrong, fire Homer & Lavi and replace them with interims until next spring when more candidates become available.

I've said something similar on more than one occasion

Also, it's not "hindsight" to say that playing a rookie in too many games and making him go through waivers was an avoidable situation. It was. Then they have Bob in Adirondack to take over once they bought out Bryz instead of having to trade him to Columbus for a bag of pucks.

It's not "hindsight" to say that signing Bryzgalov to a nine-year, NMC deal was a mistake - if you said it was a mistake when it happened (as I, and others, did).

Pronger "got us closer to a Cup than anytime since 1987" is still saying "haven't won a Cup since 1975." There is a bit of hindsight involved with Pronger - because of the injury - but, again, there were many stating that the contract extension offered to a 35+ guy with two extra years tacked on to circumvent the cap was a mistake at the time.

It's real easy to say "hindsight" except when you're talking to the Cassandras that no one was listening to when they brought the horse into the City.

[flyercanuck]

@Flyskippy

Also, Bob doesn't have to have another Vezina-type season to call that trade dumb, stupid, idiotic. Several of us were "lamenting" that trade when it happened...because the Flyers finally had a good goalie prospect for the first time in over 2 1/2 decades and they threw him away. Did anyone really think the Bobrovsky we saw was the finished product? Cause I sure as hell didn't.

[Flyskippy]

@Flyskippy

Also, Bob doesn't have to have another Vezina-type season to call that trade dumb, stupid, idiotic. Several of us were "lamenting" that trade when it happened...because the Flyers finally had a good goalie prospect for the first time in over 2 1/2 decades and they threw him away. Did anyone really think the Bobrovsky we saw was the finished product? Cause I sure as hell didn't.

See, this is where my lack of history here (and no one seeing what I had posted elsewhere) works against me: I'm not 100% on board with the moves. I can see why Homer made them, but (as a follow-up) his coach and owner kind of boxed him into a corner to make them. He should NOT have dispatched Bob, never should have signed Bryz (see my 2011 summer posts at Hockeybuzz where I said I wanted the Flyers to roll with Bob and a veteran [i was hoping they'd trade for Nabby] and stay away from Bryz), etc. I guess I come off as talking out of both sides of my mouth, but I'm not ready to fire Homer yet. So, yes, I see some mistakes that were made and attempts to fix them. Every GM makes mistakes. They're human. I just think there is a HUGE gap between someone like Homer and someone like John Ferguson, Jr.

Now, having said that, if the Flyers stumble out of the gate, fire Laviolette (for his mishandling of Bob, refusal to adjust this past half-season until it was too late, and mishandling of Couturier this past half-season), and fire Homer for not replacing Laviolette sooner and wasting another year.

It's a fine line between my approval/rejection of the GM and coach, but that's the bed they've made.

Edited August 20, 2013 by Flyskippy

[murraycraven]

@FC...

But we had Bryz... everything was perfect for us!

[radoran]

See, this is where my lack of history here (and no one seeing what I had posted elsewhere) works against me: I'm not 100% on board with the moves. I can see why Homer made them, but (as a follow-up) his coach and owner kind of boxed him into a corner to make them. He should NOT have dispatched Bob, never should have signed Bryz (see my 2011 summer posts at Hockeybuzz where I said I wanted the Flyers to roll with Bob and a veteran [i was hoping they'd trade for Nabby] and stay away from Bryz), etc. I guess I come off as talking out of both sides of my mouth, but I'm not ready to fire Homer yet. So, yes, I see some mistakes that were made and attempts to fix them. Every GM makes mistakes. They're human. I just think there is a HUGE gap between someone like Homer and someone like John Ferguson, Jr.

Now, having said that, if the Flyers stumble out of the gate, fire Laviolette (for his mishandling of Bob, refusal to adjust this past half-season until it was too late, and mishandling of Couturier this past half-season), and fire Homer for not replacing Laviolette sooner and wasting another year.

It's a fine line between my approval/rejection of the GM and coach, but that's the bed they've made.

Honestly, who could be?

For me, the scales have tipped to one side but I can see how for others they may still see how they can balance out.

My point is that I don't care if Homer is the GM of the Flyers. There is nothing I gain from "Paul Holmgren" being the general manager nor do I have any reason to find reasons keep him in the job.

I want the Philadelphia Flyers to succeed and win.

I just think they would have a better chance of that with a different braintrust - and that opinion is based upon the history of Paul Holmgren as general manager and that of his mentor, Bobby Clarke.

I do not expect anything significant to change.

Go Flyers.

[flyercanuck]

@Flyskippy

I don't think Homer is a "bad" gm. I just don't think he's very good either. His record includes some nice draft picks, but way more that he's traded away. It's insane the length of time this franchise has gone without a decent goalie. He never seems to have a plan, it's always reactionary. When he decided to trade Carter and Richards, that was the perfect time to bring along Bobrovsky with a young core of Giroux, Voracek, Schenn etc. Let them grow together. Instead, he brings in Headcase.

[Flyskippy]

@Flyskippy

I don't think Homer is a "bad" gm. I just don't think he's very good either. His record includes some nice draft picks, but way more that he's traded away. It's insane the length of time this franchise has gone without a decent goalie. He never seems to have a plan, it's always reactionary. When he decided to trade Carter and Richards, that was the perfect time to bring along Bobrovsky with a young core of Giroux, Voracek, Schenn etc. Let them grow together. Instead, he brings in Headcase.

I actually agree with most of this. That's why I have a short leash for both Laviolette & Homer. Homer's leash would be longer if Lavi were let go & a young coach were brought in to grow them all together. They can do that with Mason but can he ever recapture his rookie form? I'm still not sold on Bob, as leaky as he could be.

Time will tell and we'll all have forgotten what each other said so it's a good thing we have Google to look it up.

[goalnut3133]

But all in all, I think your present G situation is far better than ours! At least you have a 'backup'/tandem! Who knows if we'll even have 100% of a starter this season (esp. mentally)? And we didn't just make 1 goalie blunder, we made 2 bombastic blunders, in succession! Horrendous Lu contract...followed by..hmm, let's see..trade away 1 of our star/up-and-coming goalies for...uh...NOTHING on this season! (Not to mention, we may end up with Bryz yet, if Lu decides to throw another hissy fit mid-season & pack his bags...last i heard, his condo here is still on the market!)

[Claude Monet]

I can't remember for sure (so correct me if I am wrong) but didn't the Flyers want Gagne to be the Captain and he refused b/c he was not ready?

anyone who drives a Lambourgini should never be captain.

[ruxpin]

That's why, to be realistic, one needs both the orange and the black.

And a significant amount of alcohol.

[radoran]

I actually agree with most of this. That's why I have a short leash for both Laviolette & Homer. Homer's leash would be longer if Lavi were let go & a young coach were brought in to grow them all together. They can do that with Mason but can he ever recapture his rookie form? I'm still not sold on Bob, as leaky as he could be.

So, basically, I'm potentially three months ahead of your opinion?

Homer should have been on a short leash after naming a captain, signing him to a 15-year deal and dealing him three years later - along with signing his sidekick to a 12-year deal and trading him on the same day. Monumental lapses in judgement.

Follow that up with "picking" Bryzgalov, giving him a nine-year, NMC deal which shackled the team to him regardless of results and then trading a (now) Vezina trophy winner* because he mismanaged his games played. Then, at least in part to create an opportunity for "financially strapped" owners to pay enormous sums of money to players to not play for them, we lost half a season of hockey to get the buyout provisions that lifted that anvil from off Homer's foot.

Short leash? Choke chain.

And that was last season.

* I do believe Bob got A LOT of votes from people just wanting to stick the Flyers nose in it

[jammer2]

@radoran "* I do believe Bob got A LOT of votes from people just wanting to stick the Flyers nose in it"

The stats say Bob deserved it, but I have to admit thinking along those same lines.

[blocker]

I prefer not to tinkle on mine, but whatever floats your boat.

Good one.